Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

8 hours ago, random__noob said:

Changing the subject of your argument every time your argument has been nullified is your last resort? Thats so weak.

Sorry mate the subject has always been: if you didn't participate in any alert or event, you never got that reward. Here's the sequence so you can verify:

On 2019-04-17 at 7:00 AM, TheFBD said:

You got the point there, warframe wasn't like that before nightwave. For whatever syndicate you needed standing, you could do it on your on pace, get to max rank within a week or two, or months. Doing syndicate missions or just put on a sigil and do whatever you want. Doing bounties for other syndicates, or farming gems or fishing. Even if you didn't like any of those activities, you could still choose the one that was most acceptable to you.

Sure, there are tedious grinds you can't avoid, like farming nidus parts. But once you get all parts, you're done with that and never have to do it again. Getting all khora parts is pretty annoying, but once you have them all, you're done. If you like onslaught, you can keep on doing it. If not, you never have to do it again.

With nightwave there is no option anymore. When the radio dj tells you to do sorties, you have to. When she sais bounties, you have to. When she sais jump, you jump (bullet jump). No alternatives to get to the same reward. And apparently nightwave will be going on forever, making you do the same things over and over again, not just from one season to the next, but already from one week to the next. If you like that content or not.

I was thinking about that 60% you mentioned, and i have to admit, i do like less than 60% of the content of warframe too. But this is not really a problem because warframe is not fortnite, which has only one objective. If you would make a list of possible activities in warframe, you'd be busy for a while. And if you enjoy just half of those - probably hundreds of - activities, it's still a really good reason to play this game!

 

On 2019-04-17 at 12:12 PM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Flase. 

Every alert came with conditions that needed to be met to earn the reward. Every event required some level of participation to earn those goodies. 

Please stop claiming otherwise. It's pretty ridiculous. 

 

On 2019-04-18 at 1:04 PM, random__noob said:

I claim "false" on your "false". Old alert system rewards repeated. You missed one? Well it WILL cycle. It may have been annoying to not get it the first time around, but besides some statistical outliers (that I just KNOW you will cite because you just cannot resist the urge to be "that guy", can you?), most people eventually got the limited items offered by alerts.

Not the same with uniques. It is now "get them while the getting is good"

I really would avoid running that fast with your high horse. While technically your claim is correct,functionally you are wrong, because his original statement is "you can do it at your own pace and still get the stuff". And that IS absolutely correct.

 

23 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

And I reject your claim as in it you acknowledge that you earned no rewards for the ones that you did not participate in, depending instead on "it will turn up again in the future".

Regarding the "uniques", do you mean excal prime and the founders package? 

So, nice try, but no. The "we never had a system where we didn't get the rewards because we missed the alert or didn't do what we didn't want to do" argument has  demonstrably, always been false for every single alert and event. You're the one who tried to shift the goalposts to "but we could have gotten the rewards another time" which is true, and remains true with nightwave as it arguably is for most stuff (excluding the founder's package, of course). In your time in the game how many unique things have there been that never came back? Remember if the number is small then those are probably statistical outliers and you should have resisted the urge to be "that guy". 🙄

[Oreades]

You can still catch an occasional Forma/Catalyst/Reactor/Exilus through Invasions. 

The main issue with the Alerts was that they happened so spuradically and if you missed them you where well, just out of luck until the next invasion. So some people had no trouble racking up the Nitain while other people just never caught a break and had to set alert alarms that would wake them up at 3am for a Nitain because they weren't getting one otherwise. 

So overall Nightwave is better for most people because you can play the Nightwave when you have the time and work your way to the Forma/Catalyst/Reactors instead of having to be at the right place/right time or just being totally out of luck. 

I will admit I kinda miss the "Oh hey look at the Alert for 'X' " I'm totally going to log in to Warframe but at the same time I'd rather have other people be able to get Nitain reliably than to quickly increase my ever expanding Nitain hoard. 

[Luciole77]

Come on DE! Bring back alerts!

[SoulEchelon]

I'd much rather not have to stay glued to my phone or keep an Alert Tracker site up 24/7 to hope I get the chance at obtaining a potato or Nitain and so on. I would also rather not have to come home from work or being social only to realize I missed a potato alert as well.

You still want that RNG option for most of these items? Invasions still do them, and they're a lot more lenient as they tend to stay longer than alerts (and are more fun/varied imo)

Now, those of us with lives can directly grind toward these goals without having to worry about time gated RNG.

Is the system perfect? Well in my opinion I don't see many flaws, but anything can be improved. Just because there may be flaws in something doesn't mean it should be completely abolished. It can be worked on. Remember - this is the first iteration of this system (and quite frankly, it's the best "Battle Pass" like system in any current video game as of right now, and it's free. Just take a look at what Rift, Apex Legends, and even Fortnite has to deal with. They have to PAY for half of what we get for free.) Which comes to my next point

The real thing that drives me into confusion, are the people that want Nightwave to straight up be removed. Really? You personally don't like the content, so that means everyone should not be able to do it? We have some selfish people in this community.

[Ced23Ric]

Alerts had less overall Nitain and Taters than Nightwave. Alerts didn't go at your pace, but it was you snooze, you lose.

[(PSN)bianoguy]

I actually like Nightwave but one thing I dont get is you get 0 standing for killing the wolf. I've had his drop glitch on me twice giving me nothing which is annoying cause I only need the BP for the sledge. Anyway, killing the Wolf should give you like 10k, possibly 20k standing. 

TLDR; according to Nora killing the pack is better than killing the wolf

[Noble_One]

2 hours ago, Zelmen said:

1) This should be in feedback otherwise your just adding to all the other threads wanting alerts back

2) Due to IRL schedules the alerts were unfair to those that couldn't stop what they are doing to play or had the RNG luck to be on already. This helps take that time RNG out of the equation.

3) Unlikely but they might make things cheaper to help with gatekeeping. 

...so why no just have both? i dont see how its hard at having random alerts AND a nora based syndicate that gives what she gives now. this way you have multiple ways of getting thing you want and please pretty much everyone.

[Lutesque]

3 hours ago, Luciole77 said:

It affects both new and experienced players in getting things like nitain / catalysts / reactors and so on.

Experienced players don't need or want any of those things.

Also The Alert system would fail to spit out any Potatoes for entire weeks at a time. It was not actually better.

[Shadow-Spawn]

DE should just bring back the quick alert system in combination with the grindy no fun to play nightwave system - that way players can choose for themselves what they want to play.

[ReaverKane]

2 hours ago, (PS4)ErydisTheLucario said:

Really? Nitain is harder to get without alerts? Sorry guy, if anything Nightwave did make it easier to get Nitain and reactors and such. Also the reactor alerts are still there, they are gifts of the lotus. Don't get me wrong, im not defending Nightwave anymore, because I can see both sides of this argument, but don't downplay the nightwave rewards, at least for season 1, because you can get nitain, reactors and catalysts, it just requires you to play Nightwave challenges. 

Not really, they aren't.
You had 4 chances at nitain per day, that's 28 chances per week. With Nightwave, at best you'll have 15 per week...
Yes it does seem that NightWave has more because most of the time you'd get one of the 4 chances per day... Thing is, Nightwave Nitain comes at a cost, and that cost isn't Wolf creds, it's not getting other stuff...
With Alerts you could get 5-10 Nitain a week without much work, and along with that you could get Catalysts and Reactors, Forma, Credits, Helmets, Tellurium, Void Traces, Aura Mods, Nightmare mods, etc. Basically you could have all the rewards AND the Nitain...
Now to get Nitain you have to choose, do you want Nitain, or that Reactor? Do you want Nitain, or the Helmet? Do you want a Aura Mod, or the Weapon skin?

In terms of Alerts vs Nightwave, Nightwave is at best a weak side-grade, or more like a downgrade of Alerts, not an upgrade.

And the rest isn't much better either.

[Paradoxity]

2 hours ago, Noble_One said:

...so why no just have both? i dont see how its hard at having random alerts AND a nora based syndicate that gives what she gives now. this way you have multiple ways of getting thing you want and please pretty much everyone.

Friggin... this. C'mon guys, bringing alerts back into cycle doesn't force us to ditch nightwave, there's no law that says we can't have both. 

[TiberiusAlpha]

Wolf is awfull and his immortal sidekicks is just BAD. Most annoing and ugly boss on entire game. Why he so bulletspongy? DE fix it or its OK? Ah, no standing for his kill its just...bullS#&$.

[(PSN)wintersfrozen]

4 hours ago, (PS4)ErydisTheLucario said:

Really? Nitain is harder to get without alerts? Sorry guy, if anything Nightwave did make it easier to get Nitain and reactors and such. Also the reactor alerts are still there, they are gifts of the lotus. Don't get me wrong, im not defending Nightwave anymore, because I can see both sides of this argument, but don't downplay the nightwave rewards, at least for season 1, because you can get nitain, reactors and catalysts, it just requires you to play Nightwave challenges. 

I think that the Nitain argument is incredibly subjective. It did depend on what your personal schedule was and if you were online at the time. Personally I found I could get about 2 a day so I never really had an issue, that said I understand that people in other time zones were affectedly differently then myself and apparently had to chose between Nitain and sleep/work/other responsibilities. That system was not friendly to those individuals. As a flip side though Nightwave isn't friendly to those who can not devote hours of play at a time to the game or newer players who are unable to complete the various tasks to accomplish the requirements to progress in Nightwave.

Alerts were a quick 5-10 minute run with a guaranteed reward at the end. Nightwave is a accomplish X goal for points in a tier system for the rewards. Each tier provides its own boon, but to complete any tier you must complete a minimum for 2 challenges (2 5k challenges minimum). The tier system will allow you to buy 5 Nitain every 3 tiers (more or less). So if you are one once a week and have a full 8hrs of play you can (theoretically) get 5 Nitain. Now the flip side. You don't have a lot of time and can only do a few missions sporadically threw out the week. There is no guarantee you can complete the tier requirements to get the 5 Nitain meaning you are at a loss where as before it was a random chance to get it. In theory every day you logged on you could have gotten one making you have 7 to the 5 you do not have.

An easy solution for both parties? Return alerts but keep Nihhtwave. Alerts would provide the instant gratification for some players where as nightwave would allow players who missed X alert to still be able to get the reward relatively easy. Alerts could also change from being every 20 minutes or so to a few a day each set for 24 hours. 5 alerts for 24 hours should be sufficient. The Gift of the lotus shows this system to work and (on console at lest) the last Ayatan Treasure alert was easy to get with a rather generous timer of a week long.

[CosmicHermitCrab]

There should be an alternative way to farm nightwave standing/reputation instead of just doing weeklies and dailies. For example the fugitives are an alternative way of gaining standing; however, they give so little and their spawn chance is so low that it's not worth grinding primarily for them. Season passes should be designed to reward both the casual players and the hardcore farming players (typically ones that play a lot at once but take long breaks). If you take a week long vacation, the game punishes you for it, which imo wasn't a big issue in the past of warframe, and now we still need to login practically every week to get decent rewards from alerts aka nightwave. I don't want a game forcing me when I should play the game in order to get what I want. It should be a game requiring me to invest time in general, not you having to play during these certain days/hours in order to get this accomplishment, which is ironic because DE implemented nightwave in order to fix this issue from the old alert system. The good thing about the alert system in the past was, very rarely anyone did them because they were so unrewarding to begin with; now if we slack off from simply playing during certain hours we get further behind from other players, who not necessarily played more, but played during the right amount of spread-out time-frames enough times.

Also, the 15 cred rewards from the prestige levels after base level 30 aren't rewarding enough. They should give 50 creds each, imo...The base nightwave rewards are rewarding, but after that it's very unrewarding...

Also, for the wolf I have no issues with his fights, except the fact he has a garbage loot table like Stalker. Since the wolf is so rare, it ought to be mandatory for him to drop at least a random wolf hammer part, imo...

You guys might have increased the odds of encountering the wolf, but what about his garbage loot table? That's the biggest flaw with y'all thinking that most of everyone will get his hammer by the end of the event...

I'm beyond nightwave level 30 by the way, and I had to play every week and it's burning me out; is it good to be burn out from a game? Is content drought really an issue? I also got the hammer, but you know, making plat to buy it is obviously faster than farming for that piece of garbage...

Edited April 20, 2019 by CrystalSpark

[-CdG-Zilchy]

All the people saying "why not just have both", have any of you stopped to consider that maybe DE thinks that's just being too greedy? I mean cmon you already have exploiter orb showering you with Vallis gifts, thumpers short cutting the plains, gifts of the lotus giving rivens, catalysts/reactors, forma and now even skins, invasions also giving catalysts/reactors and sometimes even one from sorties when it's not throwing statues at you. Hell there's even an endo farm in the game now, everything but kuva is extremely simple to acquire these days.

I honestly don't think some of you will be happy until the Teralyst starts roaming the plains at night wearing a Santa hat and carrying a large sack that drops a random arcane every minute. Most new players don't even bother farming the non primed frames or non meta weapons so it's not like they need a huge amount of this stuff anyway and if you're an experienced player you have other means of getting what you need.

Stop being so damn greedy.

Edited April 20, 2019 by Zilchy

[Redfeather75]

I miss the spontaneity of the alert system. The rewards were lame though compared to other missions in star chart.

 

I'd see an alert for 12,000 credits and scratch my head because of how many star chart missions reward 20,000 credits.

 

 

Edited April 20, 2019 by Redfeather75

[nslay]

Nightwave is good for intermediate players that have reached all the way up to at least Neptune. They should put alerts back for brand new players and restrict it to credits and basic resources. For example, Neural Sensor needed to craft Heat Sword when Lotus gives you the sword blueprint on (I think?) Mars... and that's well before Jupiter! But you could get Neural Sensor early in an Alert back then... But yeah, easier credits by itself before Neptune would restore an easier new player experience (with the large load of stuff you learn that you need to do!).

[_JustSomeone_]

10 hours ago, Luciole77 said:

It affects both new and experienced players in getting things like nitain / catalysts / reactors and so on.

.

How is it affecting the players? Since nightwave became a thing , these items are now obtainable 24/7 (if you have credits). The only fix here needed is to make these items a bit  more cheap or give us more wolf credits.

Now about saying alerts were better.. They weren't. I play this game a lot and all i saw was credits alerts most of the time to be honest.

Edit:

A plus to this is that the nightwave challenges are becoming way to easy  now (boring for my taste). So i don't understand why some are still complaining

Edited April 20, 2019 by _JustSomeone_

[Sylonus]

22 hours ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

You don't.  Show me a build that requires umbral forma to function well.

[UltimateGrr]

It took me two and a half years to farm Vauban via the old Alert system.  Vauban Prime was easier to farm than the OG version.  That was not a good thing.

[DaftMeat]

Just a quick note on Wolf Creds: There is nothing in the current offerings that I want or need after buying the sigils and the Saturn Six Ornament. I have all of the alt helmets from the old alert system, and a stockpile of Catalysts/Reactors/Nitain as well.

Maybe consider adding Forma for Wolf Creds as well? Those were in the old random alert system, and it's the one resource that I still find myself having in low amounts.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

7 hours ago, Shadow-Spawn said:

DE should just bring back the quick alert system in combination with the grindy no fun to play nightwave system - that way players can choose for themselves what they want to play.

-THE GAME- ... Players are just playing THE GAME as it is normally. That's ALL NightWave is!  It's just "Hey, ya know that Sabotage you're gonna grind in Relics to get that Prime Junk?  Here, do it 3 times and get points..."  That's IT, for the most part.

There are a few harder, more specific tasks, sure, but those aren't -necessary- to get to rank 30.  People need to stop making more of this than it is.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

1 hour ago, Zilchy said:

All the people saying "why not just have both", have any of you stopped to consider that maybe DE thinks that's just being too greedy? I mean cmon you already have exploiter orb showering you with Vallis gifts, thumpers short cutting the plains, gifts of the lotus giving rivens, catalysts/reactors, forma and now even skins, invasions also giving catalysts/reactors and sometimes even one from sorties when it's not throwing statues at you. Hell there's even an endo farm in the game now, everything but kuva is extremely simple to acquire these days.

I honestly don't think some of you will be happy until the Teralyst starts roaming the plains at night wearing a Santa hat and carrying a large sack that drops a random arcane every minute. Most new players don't even bother farming the non primed frames or non meta weapons so it's not like they need a huge amount of this stuff anyway and if you're an experienced player you have other means of getting what you need.

Stop being so damn greedy.

Wish I could upvote this more, but instead I'll just quote it for it's significance! This is SO very much the truth!  It's getting to the point, I'm really concerned more about the New Player experience when they interact with these people on forums...moreso than I am about the NPexperience in-game.  

If anything, things ARE getting too easy.  I LOVE the grind. It's why I PLAY Warframe, partially!  I love always having something to work towards.  Now, DE has been making things TOO fast, imo, all because people can't stop making stupid demands >.<  

AND THEN THEY COMPLAIN THERE'S NOTHING TO DO AND THE GAME IS TOO EASY!!  The AUDACITY, I swear!

[sleepychewbacca]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

snip

I'm starting to like the idea of tagging names in opposing threads. 

Like say A makes a thread and a lot of arguments for making something easier, and B comes and says that there's no content / challenge, tag A in said post and make A deal with it. 

In reality no. This is a very toxic way to behave. 

But oh gosh it would be satisfying. 

Edited April 20, 2019 by sleepychewbacca

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

4 minutes ago, sleepychewbacca said:

I'm starting to like the idea of tagging names in opposing threads. 

Like say A makes a thread and a lot of arguments for making something easier, and B comes and says that there's no content / challenge, tag A in said post and make A deal with it. 

In reality no. This is a very toxic way to behave. 

But oh gosh it would be satisfying. 

Did I...miss something?