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Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

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3 minutes ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

Basically what it comes down to is:

If you only buy nitain, yes nitain is easier to get.

If you only want to buy Catalysts/Reactors, yes they are easier to get.

If you only want to buy Corrosive Projection and other specific mods, yes they are easier to get.

If you specifically want specifically X it is easier to get.

However if you want general stuff that's part of Nightwave/Alerts you're in a *much* worse situation with nightwave, especially if you can't do all of the Nightwave Acts. The rotating store and agonizing rate of Wolf Cred spawns just adds to this.

There's already been a bunch of alternatives suggested by other people including myself, but here's another. Ditch the rotating store and be quite a bit more generous with Wolf Cred drops (double or even triple). Instead have a store with everything but only in specific numbers. One Reactor, One Catalyst, one of each Aura and Helmet, two of each weapon, 3 sets of 5 nitain, etc. The amount resets on a weekly basis so you can get One Reactor per week but can't just buy up a bunch all at once, giving you more credits to spend on the other stuff you need (including nitains).

I really hope things change with Wave 2 because Wave 1 has left me really exhausted with the system and with helping new friends and clanmates navigate it. It used to be that in your first couple days of playing you'd get a bunch of alert weapons and then move onto bigger and better stuff but now I've got people with access to much better and higher-MR weapons just getting access to these MR0 Alert Melees for the first time and with having to choose between getting the affinity to master these crappy weapons, grabbing the cosmetics for frames they like, grabbing auras they need, or holding off for who knows what's going to come in the store next week. God forbid you grab Energy Siphon this week just to have Corrosive Projection show up next week and oopsie you can't get any more Wolf Creds so sucks to be you.

That I can sure get behind, I hope it gets better, because even after hitting rank 30 and getting the umbral forma, which I havent used, I feel like I wasted so much time for shoddy rewards.

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1 hour ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

howl all you want, it won't bring Alerts back.

Image result for executor ballas

I would have put a picture of Umbra Howling. But the one I have is made for Excal Prime threads. Maybe I should change it... those threads became quiet rare.

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4 hours ago, FlusteredFerret said:

Actually thats something I could get behind. Though similarly if they have an idea that is implemented and turns out well, they get a small reward...like a new glyph or something.

 

The one thing I guess is that some of this people were never around when Scott was different and tried to listen to feedback of every single kind. 

Look at him now. 

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4 hours ago, random__noob said:

You either REALLY dont understand the moment where you changed the topic, in which case I pity you, or you are trolling, in which case I pity you as well.

If I did, you could have shown it in the sequence of posts. I put the entire chain of messages, because I know that I didn't. 😉

Instead of deflecting, and trying to make stuff up, why don't you show that you got the reward for something that you didn't participate in, and complete according to the specific conditions of success that were on it at the time?

If you can't, then you really ought to be honest and just say, "hmm, I guess we never did get rewarded when we didn't do the missions, all we were doing is skipping them and foregoing the rewards, which is something that is built in to Nightwave by the fact that we don't need to complete all of the challenges, and can skip the ones we don't want to do just like we skipped alerts in the past". 

You can do it. I believe it you. 

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5 hours ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

Umm what? Most of the auras in the game are exclusive to Alerts/Nightwave. Every player needs at least some of those Auras in order to actually have *any* auras for their frames. And the weapons while not amazing are worth MR, again something that every player needs, and are primarily useful weapons to low MR players (who no longer have access to them since they can't do most of the nightwave challenges).

Also most players early on who need this stuff don't have access to most of the nightwave challenges and couldn't do them even if they wanted to so that's not 50 Wolf Creds every 1-2 weeks, it's more 50 wolf creds every 3-4 weeks, by which point they will have access to waaaaaaaaaay better weapons from their clans and the market.

Most of the stuff in nightwave you may not care about but players just starting the game *DO* and they're the ones who get the least access to it now because it's locked behind challenges that they can't complete or don't even have access to yet.

Nightwave succeeds at one thing and one thing only. Giving veterans who have completed everything a task to do. Beyond that it fails in just about every way Alerts failed, as well as some areas where they did an okay job.

Thanks for saving me the time to answer...
I'll just reply to the part in bold:
That's not really even true... I'm a "veteran", i mean, i at least have more game hours than [DE]Rebecca said she had on her personal account, and i started playing in 2016, then took a year and a half break... But i do have just about every weapon mastered, all warframes except Loki and Equinox Prime mastered, and i'm lacking a few prime weapons as well.
And Nightwave feels like a useless chore most of the time, when it's not just downright annoying...
Like the Gild something task... What's that about? Luckly i had some combinations i hadn't done yet, and i built myself a new Zaw for that, but i imagine some people that invested more into modular stuff than i did probably already have every combo gilded, what about them?
Same thing with Forma, if people already have forma'd everything they want to forma, should they just spend 3 forma randomly to get a reward equivalent to 3/10ths of 3 forma from Nightwave?
And even if you do every challenge, then you reach a point where you're doing "Prestige", and guess what? It's utterly USELESS! What do i want 15 more creds if i haven't spent more than half the ones i earned during the Rank 1-30 progression?

It's bad even for veterans, at least veterans who aren't too far deep in kissing DE's ass to see the problems with the game.

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12 hours ago, CrystalSpark said:

There should be an alternative way to farm nightwave standing/reputation instead of just doing weeklies and dailies. For example the fugitives are an alternative way of gaining standing; however, they give so little and their spawn chance is so low that it's not worth grinding primarily for them. Season passes should be designed to reward both the casual players and the hardcore farming players (typically ones that play a lot at once but take long breaks). If you take a week long vacation, the game punishes you for it, which imo wasn't a big issue in the past of warframe, and now we still need to login practically every week to get decent rewards from alerts aka nightwave. I don't want a game forcing me when I should play the game in order to get what I want. It should be a game requiring me to invest time in general, not you having to play during these certain days/hours in order to get this accomplishment, which is ironic because DE implemented nightwave in order to fix this issue from the old alert system. The good thing about the alert system in the past was, very rarely anyone did them because they were so unrewarding to begin with; now if we slack off from simply playing during certain hours we get further behind from other players, who not necessarily played more, but played during the right amount of spread-out time-frames enough times.

Pretty sure that we saw a couple of people who were able to shave fugitives for about a week's worth of standing, perhaps more. I agree with you that I feel like it's not worth it. 

Nightwave was designed to let people do around 60-65% of the content and reach maximum rank. Even counting at just 10 weeks, many players finished with weeks to spare, you're one of them. Why are you saying that you wouldn't have been able to take a vacation of a week or two, when you have more than that left of the event? 

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Also, the 15 cred rewards from the prestige levels after base level 30 aren't rewarding enough. They should give 50 creds each, imo...The base nightwave rewards are rewarding, but after that it's very unrewarding...

I'm afraid that I don't agree on getting the full 50. As it stands we can possibly earn 60 credits a week from prestige ranks. Many of the people who are at this point, aren't going to be buying many of the cosmetics and other junk that you admit were just ignored. Instead we're going to be loading up on potatoes, which are items that are usually sold to us for plat, other than the gift of the Lotus that might bring one every other week. What you're asking for is the equivalent of many months worth of free items that would normally be bought and benefit the company. Seems like a bit much, don't you think? 

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Also, for the wolf I have no issues with his fights, except the fact he has a garbage loot table like Stalker. Since the wolf is so rare, it ought to be mandatory for him to drop at least a random wolf hammer part, imo...

You guys might have increased the odds of encountering the wolf, but what about his garbage loot table? That's the biggest flaw with y'all thinking that most of everyone will get his hammer by the end of the event...

No real disagreement here, other than that we still have weeks to go. So no reason to panic just yet. 

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I'm beyond nightwave level 30 by the way, and I had to play every week and it's burning me out; is it good to be burn out from a game? Is content drought really an issue? I also got the hammer, but you know, making plat to buy it is obviously faster than farming for that piece of garbage...

You're "beyond the end", and completed a pretty major grind for an enemy with a low spawn rate that's supposed to increase as time goes by, with several weeks left on the clock! What that suggests to me is that you didn't have to play every week, or burn yourself out. 

Why did you do that to yourself? 

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Look, I appreciate what you're trying to do here, but grind will always be a difficult pill for people to swallow. Time-restricted grind? Even harder...but time-restricted grind with rewards that may never be available again? 

 

...I've been grinding my backside off for series one, and you know what? I'm done. Not just with the event, with Warframe...for at least a week, maybe several, maybe into the months. I was trying to have fun with this process, and I just...can't anymore. I still want the drops from the wolf and the rewards I haven't gotten up to, but...I need to STOP. 

 

Nightwave seems like it's trying to get people to cram as much playtime into a short period of time as possible, and for a FTP game that needs people to be invested, that's a TERRIBLE idea. 

 

My advice? Turn the Saturn 6 escapees into a sub-faction of Greneer. Either have them show up as alerts or invasions (or as a version of the sorties) with rewards gained that way.

 

I do appreciate you giving out slots for weapons and frames for free. That is a kind gesture. 

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This is how I see this issue. There are people that prefers the excitement of getting an RNG item and the others prefer grinding consistently to get something guaranteed.

Different way to get reward. Like some people like to gamble and the others prefer not to. Well, that's not a correct expression but you get the idea.

I personally prefer alert because tbh don't want to bother learning new stuff. I'm a very casual player.

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Posted (edited)

It amuses me when the argument of 'people wanting alerts back are SOO GREEDY' is used. By people who profess undying love for nightwave, because it gives them more items...So, while getting more items, they call people who want alerts back (which they claim gave less rewards) greedy? How does that work?

But that aside.

Nighwave isn't just about loot. It changed quite a few things in the way game is played. For once, it removed significant part of world building. We are no longer getting missions from lotus. No. Now it's random dev 3442 telling us, ok guys, you want that loot, so you go kill 10 rats, then ten birds, and I pay you 10 coins for each that you can spend in the store. Some people will not care about this, but the feeling of alive universe, built not only by static quest stories, but by little, and yet dynamic touches like missions given by lotus, asking for help with some crysis popping up, was the reason I kept playing the game.

And there's also the issue of changing the format of the game. Alerts gave everyone a mission, that was taking at most 10 minutes. At the end of which there was a reward. A nice, bite sized package of fun. By contast, nighwave, it's boring chore list nature aside, requires people to put in week upon week of playtime for no reward at all. At the end you can select the reward you want, sure. But the game shouldn't be (I hope) only about items you get. It should be also about the fun while playing, and the 14+ days of grind with nothing to show for it isn't exactly motivating.

That's why the idea of moving nightwave itself towards more syndicate-like format, while bringing alerts, is appealing to me. It would take some work to do the rewards of both systems right, but if solved, it would fix the problem of not getting the items people need (by offering nightwave way) while at the same time keeping people who prefer smaller chunks of gameplay with reward at the end, happy. And it wouldn't be turning warframe world into ad&d adventure done by really poor gamemaster. (so, um...you guys want loot? Ok, well, kill 10 rats, and the last rat will have all the magic items you want! Cool, eh? What do you mean, story? Where does the rat keep it all? Bag of holding, yeah).

Edited by Merrowen

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Helios5868 said:

Look, I appreciate what you're trying to do here, but grind will always be a difficult pill for people to swallow. Time-restricted grind? Even harder...but time-restricted grind with rewards that may never be available again? 

 

...I've been grinding my backside off for series one, and you know what? I'm done. Not just with the event, with Warframe...for at least a week, maybe several, maybe into the months. I was trying to have fun with this process, and I just...can't anymore. I still want the drops from the wolf and the rewards I haven't gotten up to, but...I need to STOP. 

 

Nightwave seems like it's trying to get people to cram as much playtime into a short period of time as possible, and for a FTP game that needs people to be invested, that's a TERRIBLE idea. 

 

My advice? Turn the Saturn 6 escapees into a sub-faction of Greneer. Either have them show up as alerts or invasions (or as a version of the sorties) with rewards gained that way.

 

I do appreciate you giving out slots for weapons and frames for free. That is a kind gesture. 

I know how you feel. I had taken a 5 year break from Warframe, and just recently returned. Was really enjoying the game for about a week, then nightwave happened.

It has been far too demanding with my time, which I value. I did reach tier 30 in nightwave but it has been a generally unpleasant experience. Dangling a carrot to make us grind, is not so terrible, if we can do it at our own pace and in our own time. It also wouldn't be so bad if this was added as an addition to alerts rather than replacing them and serving as the primary source for everything alerts offered. An alternative source, great. Even if it was a time limited event with exclusive rewards, like the wolf sledge, syandana, and armor parts, no problem. But as the sole practical source of nitain, and everything else that alerts offered, no. I can't do this again.

Since I reached nightwave tier 30, I have hardly played Warframe, and I just don't feel very enthusiastic about playing it anymore. Nightwave was exhausting and I'm probably going to have to take another very extended break now that this is over. I certainly can't handle something like this again. I'll try to stick around a bit longer and see if DE learns from this, but if what comes after nightwave is anything like this, I'm done too.

There is no logical argument against this. It is a fact that many of us found this exhausting, with the end result being a profound loss of interest in playing Warframe altogether. People will try to argue that our logic is flawed, and there is no reason to feel exhausted by this because it is easy, and we only needed to do a fraction of it, and we should have been able to do it in a couple hours each week. None of that changes how this actually felt to us, and no amount of logic will reignite our enthusiasm.

 

On a side note, I really don't see why these events couldn't endlessly loop. Sure it would take a bit of restructuring, but there is no real reason that these nightwave episodes could not remain and allow players to complete them at their own pace. That doesn't mean that the next event couldn't roll-out on schedule. It could just be that players could activate any episode they had yet to complete, but they could only activate one episode at any given time (activating one would deactivate any other). Maybe reaching rank 30 would end any episode except the most recent one, so you could only gain prestige ranks in the latest episode.

So players could chip away at multiple episodes, just activate one episode on monday and a different episode on tuesday. Of course players would more easily find help with tasks from the current episode, but it wouldn't matter if they couldn't finish some difficult tasks, because there would be no time constraint.

In-mission spawns like the fugitives would grant standing for whichever episode players had activated, regardless of which episode the spawns were associated with. A squad with more players enrolled in a given episode would increase chances of that episode's spawns. So if all squad members were enrolled in the most recent episode then any spawns would certainly be from that episode, but if some players were enrolled in a different episode then there would be a chance for spawns from their episode, Whatever spawns occurred though, would grant all players standing for their respective episodes regardless.

This would be kind of cool for bosses like the wolf too, because gradually most players would have completed the episode, and moved on to more recent episodes, making his spawns very rare. So his unique weapon would become increasingly rare, yet not quite unobtainable. If you had a newer player on your team, who was working through the old episodes, the wolf might just spawn. Eventually it would make less and less sense even for newer players to bother opting into very old episodes though, as the only real reason to would be the unique rewards, like the wolf gear, and newer episodes would be likely to offer more appealing unique gear. Eventually, episodes could be retired, but DE could give 2 months notice before retiring an episode so players who had not completed it and wanted to could have one last chance.

Regardless what they do with nightwave going forward though, I really hope they bring back alerts as an alternative.

Edited by Arc5in
typos
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23 hours ago, Paradoxity said:

Friggin... this. C'mon guys, bringing alerts back into cycle doesn't force us to ditch nightwave, there's no law that says we can't have both. 

People completely ignore the fact and even avoid the entire Argument that You can just have BOTH and it would actually make Nightwave better.

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21 hours ago, Sylonus said:

RMfHlYk.png

Funny, my Chroma functions just fine.  I slapped umbral forma on Titania for memes, and my Chroma still murders everything.

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11 minutes ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

Funny, my Chroma functions just fine.  I slapped umbral forma on Titania for memes, and my Chroma still murders everything.

Weird, mine feels terrible without all 3 umbral peices, and to fit them in without you lose a ton, it's almost like builds and how effective a build feels is subjective, and that different people could feel different ways about how "required" an umbral forma is... but no, that couldn't be it, could it? [/sarcasm]

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8 minutes ago, Sylonus said:

Weird, mine feels terrible without all 3 umbral peices, and to fit them in without you lose a ton, it's almost like builds and how effective a build feels is subjective, and that different people could feel different ways about how "required" an umbral forma is... but no, that couldn't be it, could it? [/sarcasm]

Correct:  umbral forma is optional.  Not having it doesn't "break" Chroma, or any other Warframe.  Someone may *want* it, and they have to grind it.  Just like grinding Harrow, or cryotic for Freezing Step, or Arbitrations for vitus essence, etc.

Especially with this being confirmed as umbral forma's first, not only, appearance, not finishing Nightwave has a negligible impact on gameplay.

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I have to agree that participation or completing NW is indeed negligible, theres little in the rewards or credits shop that wasnt available prior to its inception, where Catalysts & reactors could be bought with plat from farming relics & selling the dregs of your efforts, the same with warframe & weapon slots, nothing in the whole of the NW is of any consequence, Save the availability of Nitain.

however its fairly intrusive & unavoidably so, with big bright notices & the wolf dropping in to give ya a first hand account of what a yo yo feels like with your intestines.

But true, the umbral forma is a means to a meta end, it didnt exist on Switch until the start of NW & hasnt been a part of the game for the majority of the games lifespan thus far on other systems & given how infrequently we will obtain this material, I would hazard to say, its a bonus, not a necessity.

But always being reminded that "there be carrots for you if you dance through these hoops" is no less annoying,  its like spam after you bought one cool looking knofe from a mail order catalog because it was in a movie you liked, MK 1 in my case, LOVED Kanos knife, but afterwards you keep getting reminders you cant shut off about how many more points you are away from a free "Sherokawa" tanto with a dragon painted on the blade!

NW should be a choice to engage, if you want it, go get it, work for it & dedicate the time & effort, every other aspect of the game does this, from Nightmare modes, to syndicate missions, removing the option to participate or not is not negligible.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

Correct:  umbral forma is optional.  Not having it doesn't "break" Chroma, or any other Warframe.  Someone may *want* it, and they have to grind it.  Just like grinding Harrow, or cryotic for Freezing Step, or Arbitrations for vitus essence, etc.

Especially with this being confirmed as umbral forma's first, not only, appearance, not finishing Nightwave has a negligible impact on gameplay.

Whether you play specific Warframes is optional, whether you potato a frame or weapon is optional, whether you play the game at all is optional, that's not a useful metric, what is a negligible impact to you may not be to others, is my whole point, you can't tell people what is or isn't important to them, they're telling you what feels important to them, what feels like they couldn't be happy without. That may be different for you, I personally would have been very displeased not to obtain my umbral forma, it doesn't feel like something that I would consider negligible at all.

You can absolutely point out that there's nothing you can't get done ingame without an umbral forma. But at the same time it's also true that it's possible to complete literally any ingame content with any warframe, unpotatoed, with 0 forma, but that won't be true of all people and how much people feel the difference in optimization or strength will vary from person to person.

Edited by Sylonus
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2 hours ago, Sylonus said:

Whether you play specific Warframes is optional, whether you potato a frame or weapon is optional, whether you play the game at all is optional, that's not a useful metric, what is a negligible impact to you may not be to others, is my whole point, you can't tell people what is or isn't important to them, they're telling you what feels important to them, what feels like they couldn't be happy without. 

Umbral forma is far less consequential to gameplay than anything you just listed.  Chroma benefits many orders of magnitude more from potatoes and forma than he does polarizing an umbral mod, for example.

This is kind of like saying that not earning a Vectis riven from a sortie and being unable to afford it is severely impacting your gameplay experience.

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On 2019-04-16 at 2:25 AM, masterofdetiny said:

Fair.  About five posts later that rectification was made.  

Delta is 50 credits, so you could earn a single reactor/catalyst in 10 weeks just doing the 30 levels and you'd need another 5 prestige levels (15*5+5 = 80) to get a second one.  The net influence is realistically 1 of each in 10 weeks. 

TLDR after this point. If you're saying the amount of wolf creds you get after prestiging is too low? I agree, It should be at least 25 per rank, or 50 at the same points it was in the first 30. 

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On 2019-04-16 at 1:32 PM, (PS4)corpusbonds said:

Nope 😕

 My ping and internet are good, but I’m hesitant with any of the other challenges now. It always works a second time, but as of recent it’s been resetting once I start the challenge for the first time.

Is this happening at the time the day resets? If so, if you haven't got your daily login before you start the new challenges, go to a relay and then back. Once you have your daily login reward it should work fine. Things are always glitchy around this time. Needs to be addressed.

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On 2019-04-17 at 4:29 AM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

I dunno. I heard people grousing about the use 3 forma. I think that I've used over 10 so far if I start counting from that first 3. Certainly didn't seem terrible to me. 

It takes 10k standing to earn those three Forma, you only get 3k in return for using them. if you have nothing to forma at the time, you miss out on the task, or you waste 3 forma. I just got a Tatsu riven, Now I am hesitant to forma it in case the 3 forma challenges pops up this coming week or the next one.
So I could forma it and then miss out on the task later, Or I don't forma and miss out on using it in its bankai form until the challenge pops up again.
The 3 forma challenge is a net loss every time. Also last time you said I should have had 6 forma by the time it came around again. I had not earned the second lot of forma at that time. So it was a net loss if I did it.

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On 2019-04-17 at 9:47 PM, Test-995 said:

Well, that would be just because they can't sell frames on in-game market if they make those tradable, and frame's exclusivity is justified by money.

Every non-prime Warframe is farmable in game or purchasable from the dojo. There is no vaulting process for these frames. The only reason to buy a standard frame is because you don't want to farm them.

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On 2019-04-19 at 3:39 PM, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

I recently got the freezing step ephemera drop, and want to build it.

It takes 20,000 cryotic.  I hate excavation and still have other things that need cryotic too.  There is no way to build it without cryotic.

So, I made a loadout, grabbed trusty ole Frost, equipped Strun Wraith + Catchmoon+ Nikana Prime for some weapons I found fun, I play some music and grab clanmates to hang out in party, and I have been grinding cryotic while taking steps to keep things fun.

Urgh, excavation. You haven't got the Sibear yet have you? 30k Cryotic. I haven't got any ephemera yet, but I think I have almost 20k built up since I stopped needing it for items.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

Every non-prime Warframe is farmable in game or purchasable from the dojo. There is no vaulting process for these frames. The only reason to buy a standard frame is because you don't want to farm them.

"exclusivity" in that post is pointing at "there is only one place to farm for thing and it's not tradable" thing, and not about time exclusivity.

Edited by Test-995

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