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Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

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3 minutes ago, Test-995 said:

"exclusivity" in that post is pointing at "there is only one place to farm for thing and it's not tradable" thing, and not about time exclusivity.

But it's not exclusive, because you can farm them or you can buy them.

This is a free to play game. They do need to have sources of revenue in the game to keep it going and to pay for the ever-evolving updates to the game.

Here's what you can do if you don't like that you can't trade standard frames in the game. Farm relics and mods. Sell them for plat even if you sell them as junk items for cheap to get fast sales. Then when you have enough plat buy the frame. It would almost be like you traded for it.

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10 minutes ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

But it's not exclusive, because you can farm them or you can buy them.

This is a free to play game. They do need to have sources of revenue in the game to keep it going and to pay for the ever-evolving updates to the game.

Here's what you can do if you don't like that you can't trade standard frames in the game. Farm relics and mods. Sell them for plat even if you sell them as junk items for cheap to get fast sales. Then when you have enough plat buy the frame. It would almost be like you traded for it.

That's... pretty much what i said...

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Just now, Test-995 said:

That's... pretty much what i said...

Really? Well okay then. I'll accept that I misunderstood as I feel mentally shattered right now.

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20 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

If I did, you could have shown it in the sequence of posts. I put the entire chain of messages, because I know that I didn't. 😉

Instead of deflecting, and trying to make stuff up, why don't you show that you got the reward for something that you didn't participate in, and complete according to the specific conditions of success that were on it at the time?

If you can't, then you really ought to be honest and just say, "hmm, I guess we never did get rewarded when we didn't do the missions, all we were doing is skipping them and foregoing the rewards, which is something that is built in to Nightwave by the fact that we don't need to complete all of the challenges, and can skip the ones we don't want to do just like we skipped alerts in the past". 

You can do it. I believe it you. 

Wait we first had you calling somebodys statement "false" which I claimed is wrong. His statement was "Old alerts cycled, so it didnt matter much if you did miss one, they will come back around. This Nightwave stuff is an event with 10 weeks duration and rewards that are right now unique. So old alert was casual, new alert applies pressure to us".

You called if false under the pretext "Yeah but you still had to do the alerts to get the rewards."

You had me scratching my head there. I mean, what kind of argument is that? The post you called "false" on never said they didnt want to DO them at all. He even said "you can do them at your own pace".

So you changed topic and assumed something. Which was, frankly, quite hilarious. Did you notice how many other forum users only give your posts "haha" or "whoa" feedbacks? Thats because you cant downvote a person here. If we could, you would be greyed out so much it would be quite refreshing to see.

You arent even on topic. You are very far from the topic at hand. Debating you feels like you are in fact trolling or training for a debate class or whatever. But you are extremely poor at the mindgame shenanigans. Please dont think people will lose track of their own arguments. You arent even considering these arguments, instead you already have panned out in your head why everybody else is so wrong and what everybody else is thinking, even if in fact their posts are saying something quite different.

And you do that all the time. It's a waste of space and a waste of time.

Sure you will keep posting "no all you said is wrong" again. But it isnt. You cant get that through your thick skull, fine. Just know that an overwhelming majority of people here WILL shake their heads in pity when they read what you write. And you arent convincing anybody with your off-topic not-reading-what-the-other-person-actually-wrote debate style.

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

It takes 10k standing to earn those three Forma, you only get 3k in return for using them. if you have nothing to forma at the time, you miss out on the task, or you waste 3 forma. I just got a Tatsu riven, Now I am hesitant to forma it in case the 3 forma challenges pops up this coming week or the next one.
So I could forma it and then miss out on the task later, Or I don't forma and miss out on using it in its bankai form until the challenge pops up again.
The 3 forma challenge is a net loss every time. Also last time you said I should have had 6 forma by the time it came around again. I had not earned the second lot of forma at that time. So it was a net loss if I did it.

The thing with this is DE could simply make it as "Acquire 3 forma".  This is essentially the exact same result without the issue of forcing a players hand as you need to have gained the forma in some manner before the player is able to use them (the prerequisite step).

The benefits are however much greater to the players in that
- They are free to use the forma as they see fit
- They don't need to hold off on using them in fear of missing out on the night wave reward
- There is no chance or requirement to waste forma should the player not want to upgrade anything that week
- It works in synergy with many other Nightwave tasks/rewards like relic missions or getting the forma bundle tier reward
- Makes it more likely for players to consider buying forma they may not have an immediate use for

All in all way friendlier to all players and resulting in the same end result: players expending forma (as few players wont spend the forma once acquired unless they have much more than they need already).

The only real downside is players wont be forced to use up stockpiles they already have.

Edited by Loswaith
spelling corrections
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So, today I got an affinity booster, which is great because I have a few places I need a forma. Need to stick another in my lanka and both mesa and nyx needs one so they can have dual colours. Several of my zaws need a forma since I did not account for the sudden implementation of amalgamods, but the issue is that the booster is going to go to waste, because I know if I take advantage of it to do the work I should have done a week ago, which I put off for the same reason the booster will now go to waste, namely that if I do tomorrow there'll be a "use 3 forma" act on the nightwave.

It's really demotivating that there's something like that potentially looming in the future, making you feel forced to do nothing, so that you may avoid the game laughing at you in 14 hours. Please DE, remove acts like this from the next season of nightwave. Please don't make acts which promotes inactivity, things like the forma act or the gild act.

Alternatively if you really want to keep it, please reduce the forma act to just a single forma, it does the exact same, but feels like less of a slap in the face and excludes fewer people. The reduction of the ayatan act was a good move, I'd personally like to see it reduced to just two for the same reasoning, namely that it does the same as three, but wastes less time. As for the gild challenge, please just get rid of that entirely, as it is right now I'm sitting on 5 amps that I'd like to craft and would have crafted and ranked if it wasn't for nightwave, but now that I know I'll need to eventually gild something, I'm just sitting and waiting so as to avoid wasting slots and resources to craft a random throw-away zaw or kitgun, as I already have all of those.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

Umbral forma is far less consequential to gameplay than anything you just listed.  Chroma benefits many orders of magnitude more from potatoes and forma than he does polarizing an umbral mod, for example.

This is kind of like saying that not earning a Vectis riven from a sortie and being unable to afford it is severely impacting your gameplay experience.

In large part the whole point was that it was subjective, also, traditionally the phase "order of magnitude" implies a multiple of 10 greater, a potato provides 30 more points, your average forma provides less than 8, where the umbral forma provides 8.

I know multiple people who have quit over riven disposition changes, or at RNG at all manners of things, you can't expect everyone to have the same threshold for what "severely impacts their gameplay experience."

Edited by Sylonus
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2 hours ago, random__noob said:

Wait we first had you calling somebodys statement "false" which I claimed is wrong. His statement was "Old alerts cycled, so it didnt matter much if you did miss one, they will come back around. This Nightwave stuff is an event with 10 weeks duration and rewards that are right now unique. So old alert was casual, new alert applies pressure to us".

 

And that's the problem, at no point could you "do it at your own pace". You either did what was in front of you, or you skipped it and forego the rewards. 

It also implies that nightwave challenges can't be skipped, which they can. 

2 hours ago, random__noob said:

You called if false under the pretext "Yeah but you still had to do the alerts to get the rewards."

It's no pretext if it's true. 

2 hours ago, random__noob said:

You had me scratching my head there. I mean, what kind of argument is that? The post you called "false" on never said they didnt want to DO them at all. He even said "you can do them at your own pace".

Each alert was a discrete unit. If you didn't do it, you got no reward at all. And since they lasted about an hour, you never had the option to do it at any pace other than the one dictated by DE. Now we have a minimum of 3 days to get it done at "our pace". Anyone being honest with themselves can admit that a window of 3 days is a lot more relaxed than 60 minutes. 

2 hours ago, random__noob said:

So you changed topic and assumed something. Which was, frankly, quite hilarious. Did you notice how many other forum users only give your posts "haha" or "whoa" feedbacks? Thats because you cant downvote a person here. If we could, you would be greyed out so much it would be quite refreshing to see.

Scroll back a few dozen pages. I've been disagreeing with people who rapidly evolve to personal attacks on people who disagree with them. You can get in trouble for doing that. Nobody gets warnings for putting "likes". Also you'll notice the numbers on most of them remaining fairly constant over time. Last I checked it was in the range of 4-5. Should tell you something. 

2 hours ago, random__noob said:

You arent even on topic. You are very far from the topic at hand. Debating you feels like you are in fact trolling or training for a debate class or whatever. But you are extremely poor at the mindgame shenanigans. Please dont think people will lose track of their own arguments. You arent even considering these arguments, instead you already have panned out in your head why everybody else is so wrong and what everybody else is thinking, even if in fact their posts are saying something quite different.

Nightwave. The difference between alerts and nightwave. The fact that many people are making blatantly false claims about "not missing out with the old system" despite most admitting that that's because they stopped participating in, and ignored the majority of alerts in old system after a relatively short period of time. Yet they still claim it's a case of "doing them at our own pace" (which meant not at all it seems) and ignoring the limited time we had to do each. 

🤔

Nah mate, those are on topic. Good try though. 

Also, most of what you have posted is ad hominem. You haven't spoken to the validity of any of the points in a long time. Why is that? 

2 hours ago, random__noob said:

And you do that all the time. It's a waste of space and a waste of time.

Sure you will keep posting "no all you said is wrong" again. But it isnt. You cant get that through your thick skull, fine. Just know that an overwhelming majority of people here WILL shake their heads in pity when they read what you write. And you arent convincing anybody with your off-topic not-reading-what-the-other-person-actually-wrote debate style.

Ad hominem. Try addressing points instead of people.

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4 hours ago, Sylonus said:

In large part the whole point was that it was subjective, also, traditionally the phase "order of magnitude" implies a multiple of 10 greater, a potato provides 30 more points, your average forma provides less than 8, where the umbral forma provides 8.

I know multiple people who have quit over riven disposition changes, or at RNG at all manners of things, you can't expect everyone to have the same threshold for what "severely impacts their gameplay experience."

I'd say quitting over riven disposition changes is not a problem with the game.

The order of magnitude is that with potatoes and regular forma, Chroma can use both his abilities to outstanding effect.

Umbral forma, which didn't exist before Nightwave, wasn't needed to make an extremely effective Chroma.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

Is this happening at the time the day resets? If so, if you haven't got your daily login before you start the new challenges, go to a relay and then back. Once you have your daily login reward it should work fine. Things are always glitchy around this time. Needs to be addressed.

Nope.

 Happened again last night with the arsonist challenge. I thought maybe that was the reason as well, but I had already received my daily when I went to a mission and tried it out. Came back, reset to zero.

Edited by (PS4)corpusbonds

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48 minutes ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

I'd say quitting over riven disposition changes is not a problem with the game.

The order of magnitude is that with potatoes and regular forma, Chroma can use both his abilities to outstanding effect.

Umbral forma, which didn't exist before Nightwave, wasn't needed to make an extremely effective Chroma.

For some people it is enough of a problem to quit, you can't tell people what is or isn't a big enough thing, or expect it to be the same for everyone.
Again, for the phrase "order of magnitude" to be applicable it would have to be something that would effectively be 80 points worth of value, compared to an Umbral Forma's 8.
Words like effective, sufficient, necessary, without further specific qualifiers are in the eye of the beholder.

You can say things like "sufficient to complete any content within X minutes", or "effective enough to complete most content without ever getting downed", etc, but without qualifiers, you're just relying on how people feel, and people feel all manner of ways about the specifics, plenty of people say they feel "necessary", they do for me in this context, at least with the qualifiers that "I would've felt like I missed a large opportunity and it would've created a disparaging feeling about the game as a whole." Again, it's a challenge I completed, easily, (as would I say most of the people I know who play) but, I know some who haven't yet completed it and are panicking a bit, and I do know others who haven't completed it and don't really care, everyone is different.

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21 minutes ago, Sylonus said:

Words like effective, sufficient, necessary, without further specific qualifiers are in the eye of the beholder.

I think this is where the misunderstanding lies.

I'm talking about Chroma's ability to kill Eidolons and the Profit Taker quickly, as well as perform in general missions.  The places you see Chroma.  Those are implied.

You're talking about opening your arsenal with happy feelings.  While that's good and all, there's a grind for that.

My Chroma, which has zero umbral forma, can easily defeat any challenge in Warframe outside of extremely long survivals.  That's my qualifier:  quickly and easily plowing through any content, which a non-umbrafied Chroma can do just as well as before the existence of fancy forma.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

I think this is where the misunderstanding lies.

I'm talking about Chroma's ability to kill Eidolons and the Profit Taker quickly, as well as perform in general missions.  The places you see Chroma.  Those are implied.

You're talking about opening your arsenal with happy feelings.  While that's good and all, there's a grind for that.

My Chroma, which has zero umbral forma, can easily defeat any challenge in Warframe outside of extremely long survivals.  That's my qualifier:  quickly and easily plowing through any content, which a non-umbrafied Chroma can do just as well as before the existence of fancy forma.

Yep, exactly my point!

Myself and other people are speaking about how the Umbral Forma and it's effect on the builds of the Warframes make us feel, whether they feel important or optional or not, there's no wrong or right there, only what feels acceptable to us to us to miss or not.

It's fine to cite what you feel is optional.

And it's fine to cite specifics, X content, Y amount of time, etc, with qualifiers, though, one could argue the specifics of "how quickly" and "how easily", and debate "just as well", and debate what they think is enough to be sure.

Edited by Sylonus
Sorry, wanted to be more specific.

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1 minute ago, Sylonus said:

Myself and other people are speaking about how the Umbral Forma and it's effect on the builds of the Warframes make us feel, whether they feel important or optional or not, there's no wrong or right there, only what feels acceptable to us to us to miss or not.

Once you add qualifiers specific to content and times, it's fine to cite what you feel is fine or optional, though, one could argue again the specifics of "how quickly" and "how easily", and debate "just as well", to be sure.

Precisely.

Potatoes and forma are necessary to fit the more necessary mods on Chroma (Blind Rage, Transient Fortitude, Vitality, etc).  Umbral forma lets you fit...  A second or third umbral mod, which replaces a nearly identical mod already on him, and *slightly* increases their stats.

But yeah, shaving ten seconds (if that) off the Profit Taker goes from the realm of forma (I need this item to progress through content) to certain rivens (I can do everything without it, but it's amusing).  Again, for those who want to go all the way and hit maximum minmax, there's a grind for that called Nightwave.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

Precisely.

Potatoes and forma are necessary to fit the more necessary mods on Chroma (Blind Rage, Transient Fortitude, Vitality, etc).  Umbral forma lets you fit...  A second or third umbral mod, which replaces a nearly identical mod already on him, and *slightly* increases their stats.

But yeah, shaving ten seconds (if that) off the Profit Taker goes from the realm of forma (I need this item to progress through content) to certain rivens (I can do everything without it, but it's amusing).  Again, for those who want to go all the way and hit maximum minmax, there's a grind for that called Nightwave.

What is "necessary" to you is not necessarily "necessary" to the the person right next to you. I'll say fitting the third umbral mod on there (which I didn't do before the umbral forma) felt like it made a bloody huge difference, 10 seconds in the case of eidolon hunts can be the difference between an 4x3 or 5x3, what exactly is "enough" or "amusing" to you, isn't to everyone, again, is my entire point, again, I certainly didn't mind the grind on Nightwave, I do wish we got more wolf cred but, I don't think the grind for the Umbral forma and other new rewards feel unreasonable, to me, but at the same time, there's nothing wrong with others saying it feels unreasonable to them.

I'm just stating my opinion here, to me, the Nightwave rewards DO feel important and impactful enough to be "a thing I would be very upset if I didn't obtain", and I personally feel like the grind to get them isn't unreasonable, though I have friends who do.

Edited by Sylonus
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1 minute ago, Sylonus said:

What is "necessary" to you is not necessarily "necessary" to the the person right next to you. I'll say fitting the third umbral mod on there (which I didn't do before the umbral forma) felt like it made a bloody huge difference, 10 seconds in the case of eidolon hunts can be the difference between an 4x3 or 5x3, what exactly is "enough" or "amusing" to you, isn't to everyone, again, is my entire point, again, I certainly didn't mind the grind on Nightwave, I do have some gripes about it but, I don't think it feels unreasonable to get the Umbral forma, to me, but at the same time, there's nothing wrong with others saying it feels unreasonable to them.

I'm just stating my opinion here, to me, the Nightwave rewards DO feel important and impactful enough to be "a thing I would be very upset if I didn't obtain", and I personally feel like the grind to get them isn't unreasonable, though I have friends who do.

It's been so long I thought you were one of the guys arguing that umbral forma is "unfairly" locked behind Nightwave lol

I mean, people were doing 5x3 (and 6x3) before the existence of umbral forma.  But if umbral forma "feels" necessary to someone, for sure, the grind is there for them to do.

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1 hour ago, (PS4)corpusbonds said:

Nope.

 Happened again last night with the arsonist challenge. I thought maybe that was the reason as well, but I had already received my daily when I went to a mission and tried it out. Came back, reset to zero.

Someone else had said that they experienced something similar. 

Maybe you should post about it over in bugs? I honestly can't say that I noticed it happening, but maybe it's one of those weird things that only happens if all the conditions are met in exactly one way? 

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7 minutes ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

It's been so long I thought you were one of the guys arguing that umbral forma is "unfairly" locked behind Nightwave lol

I mean, people were doing 5x3 (and 6x3) before the existence of umbral forma.  But if umbral forma "feels" necessary to someone, for sure, the grind is there for them to do.

I mean I do sympathize with those people, I have a lot longer to play than many of my friends, even if to me it didn't feel like "too much grind" for me.

5x3 and 6x3 were done, (and I'd imagine still are), but that doesn't mean just everyone can do them, not to mention, the recent hitbox changes to the Eidolons has made everything harder, depending on your players/group etc etc, it may be the difference in your personal performance, etc that makes up the difference between what you could do before, and after.

I'm just mostly trying to point out to people, saying "I feel like X or Y is fair to me, I don't think you should change it."  is great and all, but
"You shouldn't feel like this is unfair." is just silly.

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16 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Someone else had said that they experienced something similar. 

Maybe you should post about it over in bugs? I honestly can't say that I noticed it happening, but maybe it's one of those weird things that only happens if all the conditions are met in exactly one way? 

Yeah, it’s not terribly annoying since I can just do it again, but it’s enough to warrant an eye roll.

 I’ll probably due that. A bit busy though so hopefully I’ll remember later.

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9 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

And that's the problem, at no point could you "do it at your own pace". You either did what was in front of you, or you skipped it and forego the rewards. 

It also implies that nightwave challenges can't be skipped, which they can. 

It's no pretext if it's true. 

Each alert was a discrete unit. If you didn't do it, you got no reward at all. And since they lasted about an hour, you never had the option to do it at any pace other than the one dictated by DE. Now we have a minimum of 3 days to get it done at "our pace". Anyone being honest with themselves can admit that a window of 3 days is a lot more relaxed than 60 minutes. 

Scroll back a few dozen pages. I've been disagreeing with people who rapidly evolve to personal attacks on people who disagree with them. You can get in trouble for doing that. Nobody gets warnings for putting "likes". Also you'll notice the numbers on most of them remaining fairly constant over time. Last I checked it was in the range of 4-5. Should tell you something. 

Nightwave. The difference between alerts and nightwave. The fact that many people are making blatantly false claims about "not missing out with the old system" despite most admitting that that's because they stopped participating in, and ignored the majority of alerts in old system after a relatively short period of time. Yet they still claim it's a case of "doing them at our own pace" (which meant not at all it seems) and ignoring the limited time we had to do each. 

🤔

Nah mate, those are on topic. Good try though. 

Also, most of what you have posted is ad hominem. You haven't spoken to the validity of any of the points in a long time. Why is that? 

Ad hominem. Try addressing points instead of people.

You finally did it. you have me rolling on the floor laughing my ass off. Have a good day sir. I am sure you are a delight to meet in person. Many a person must not have skipped you entirely.

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-04-20 at 10:21 AM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

You're "beyond the end", and completed a pretty major grind for an enemy with a low spawn rate that's supposed to increase as time goes by, with several weeks left on the clock! What that suggests to me is that you didn't have to play every week, or burn yourself out. 

Why did you do that to yourself? 

Well, when is the end of this event? Or does no one know about this quite yet? I was assuming it was soon.

Edited by CrystalSpark

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About 2 - 3 weeks, gotta love that ambiguity & then theres talk of extension, so no clear definitive date or time, could shift to the next NW on a friday, a sunday or the middle of the week for all anyone knows & DE isnt talking.

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I forward that the Gild and Forma objectives should be removed entirely. These two objectives expect not only time but also resources to complete, resources that you would otherwise not use up unless self motivated to improve your loadout; every other objective only requires time investment and some skill/mechanic knowledge. These two objectives are just resource sinks that demand to build or upgrade things simply for the sake of it.

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60 minute survivals are goddamned Satan-spawn. They're not challenging, they're boring, and their main challenge comes from hoping that the host's connection doesn't take a S#&$ or that someone is so zombified from the dullness that they auto-pilot trigger a canister. I literally start falling asleep during these nightwave survivals. 

 

Make it a 20 minute survival where enemies start at 80-100, for the love of god.

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Please DE for the love of the Void please stop with the "with a friend or clanmate" missions. You know damn well I have no friends. Please stop rubbing it in my face xD

Also pretty pretty please stop the "use x resources" challenges. I gilded an amp yesterday, it just discourages people from using those resources outside Nightwave missions.

2 hours ago, CrystalSpark said:

Well, when is the end of this event? Or does no one know about this quite yet? I was assuming it was soon.

Check the dev workshop thread about Wolf spawn rate clarification, they said the earliest end date in there. I believe it was... May 15th? Though they said it may get extended past then depending on how things go.

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