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Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

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2 hours ago, CrystalSpark said:

Well, when is the end of this event? Or does no one know about this quite yet? I was assuming it was soon.

May 15th is the earliest projected end date at this time. Wolf is planned to be making repeat appearances but I don't have any details. 

Even if you counted 10 weeks from the start date you're looking at the 8th of May and we've known that DE doesn't seem to be counting that first partial week for a long time now. 

So.. Like I said, you have gone way past the end, with weeks left on the clock. You never needed to push yourself so hard, or burn yourself out. You could have skipped weeks and still completed the event. Like many other people you seem to have taken an irrational fear and given it way too much power over you. 

 

So again why did you do that to yourself? 

 

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

...You never needed to push yourself so hard, or burn yourself out. You could have skipped weeks and still completed the event. Like many other people you seem to have taken an irrational fear and given it way too much power over you. 

 

So again why did you do that to yourself? 

 

It's obviously more of a personal private manner, it's the reason why I didn't mention answering it nor challenged your questioning. No reason to bash on it.

Edited by CrystalSpark
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8 minutes ago, CrystalSpark said:

It's obviously more of a personal private manner, the reason why I didn't mention answering it nor challenge your questioning. No reason to bash on it.

That is fine, but you made claims that people aren't able to take a week off, and that you had to play every week. 

Will you at least admit that you got through it with more than enough time to spare for a fortnight on a deserted island without modern conveniences? Or that many people seem to be blaming DE for burning themselves out, despite having time to have gone at a far more leisurely pace? 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Will you at least admit that you got through it with more than enough time to spare for a fortnight on a deserted island without modern conveniences? Or that many people seem to be blaming DE for burning themselves out, despite having time to have gone at a far more leisurely pace? 

Well, I have friends complaining that some of the nightwave challenges seem more like chores than fun challenges. However, other than that, I have other friends going at slower leisurely paces, and they are reaching very close to base level 30. So if it matters, yeah you're correct in this aspect.

Sorry, I just don't find it common for others to accept/agree with other people's criticisms online, so I thought I might as well do the same, lol...Most folks just don't respond or go silent in these regards...It's kind of a cultural problem, it seems...

Edited by CrystalSpark
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Posted (edited)

Warning, I need to rant a lil so pardon my French.

As a warframe veteran that played since it came out (you know the good ol' time when grineers were still walking on corpus tilesets?), I gotta say some of those nightwave objectives are just completely ridiculously "cognitively impaired" if you catch my drift (nowadays we cannot risk damaging some weak minded individuals with the R_tard word so im censoring myself). It's like you expect all of your players to be nolifers that play multiple hours per "sitting" or "gaming session" without ever stretching their legs to go get a glass of water or something. The one hour long survival without using a O2 pod and kuva equivalent are just complete nonsense. They should be at max 30min each.

Also, ATM if you don't have either multiple hydroids and/or a nekro you cannot even dream of reaching the 60min mark. We are forced in using a certain frame to even think of reaching 60min. Just now, in the middle of a round, because we weren't all camping in the corner of his choosing, our lil nekros decided to throw a man-child tantrum and ragequit mid-mission making us a 3men squad and we only had a single hydroid as a mean to increase our O2 drops. We made it to 56min. Needless to say, thank you DE and whoever the incompetent is for making those runs ridiculously long (no I didn't need any kuva). 

Extremely rage inducing.

You say : "Survival Challenges - too long in one sitting."
Yet you haven't f-ing fixed it almost 2months later. GG slow clap. 
 

Edited by VieuxPappy
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So uh, about this week (and previous appearance)...

Good:  level 140+ enemies.  I like fighting them.

Bad:  1 hour, in a mission where a misplaced button press fails the challenge.

Solution:  half an hour special alert in kuvival, starting at level 100, with capsules that cannot be activated for life support.

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I wasn't planning on skipping any of the nightwave objectives, but I'm prestige 8 and I don't feel like doing hour long survivals. So, I'm going to skip them. Because they're bad. Undecided on the 40 wave defense. Might skip that too. 

I'm doing the gild even though I already have every item gilded just because of all the materials given to us by exploiter orb, but I still very much hate the idea of that being a challenge. It's a straight waste of materials and rep for absolutely no benefit. This is also bad. 

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1 minute ago, diaversai said:

Undecided on the 40 wave defense. Might skip that too. 

I recommend doing it.  Run Trinity plus Saryn, drop an ancient eximus, go to Hydron, all 40 waves evaporate fairly quickly.  We did it pub last time and leveled some random Revenant from 0 to 30.

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Formerly, 40 Waves Defense were exchanged for another task because Orokin Derelict Defense were not counted, but is the defect fixed this time? Is it possible for DE to answer?

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

Solution:  half an hour special alert in kuvival, starting at level 100, with capsules that cannot be activated for life support.

Should be 20 or 40 though, if they keep rotation AABC.

If they goes for ABCCCC like arbitration one, then that'll do fine.

Edited by Test-995
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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Test-995 said:

Should be 20 or 40 though, if they keep rotation AABC.

If they goes for ABCCCC like arbitration one, then that'll do fine.

Fair point.  But yeah, maybe then 20 min starting at 110 or something.  Or, no rotation rewards and throw a 5 relic pack in at the end or something, with it being a higher level alert and all.

Edited by (PS4)BenHeisennberg
A word
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Easy decision to skip most of this week's Acts, for me anyway (rank 30).
Gild - nope (I mean, I could, but, wasted standing since I'm 30 already, and this will likely come back in the next series, so might as well wait until the next series)
1hr Survival/friend - NOPE.
1hr Kuva/no lifesupport - NOPE.
40wave Defense/friend - Nope.
Clem - nope. (I only did his little mission once or twice, no reason to do it - not even this... maybe if it was assassinate clem)
SanctuaryOnslaught - maybe... if my friend wants to get a radiant relic.
10 Perfect Captures on Valis - NOPE. Been there, done that, didn't like that. (note this is one of the PS4 trophies, btw - considered "Ultra Rare" and only 0.2% have it completed, and this was already an Act one week...)

If I was still in dire need of standing, I'd be hating this week so much... I'm just glad I can ignore it.
... but my friend is only at Rank19, the 2nd Kuva reward rank. He certainly doesn't have time for that junk, and needs every point he can get. He's even LESS motivated now, to even TRY to get to the ranks with the good stuff. He MIGHT hit rank 20 this week, and nothing in there is anything he cares about until the syandana/umbraforma/attachments.

I'd have thought with their awareness of the reception of some of those acts (and bugs and griefing), they'd just remove them from this series.

My "For fun" goals do not match up with these at all. (in fact, they're a collection of the very definition of "not fun" things I could be doing in Warframe, and they stop me from doing things I would otherwise do, for efficiency's sake of not wasting materials until it's a required activity by Nightwave)

 

On the bright side, with the return of Thermia Fractures, it still remembers that I got 5 done in the first batch, so it's remembering progress between its appearances. That's a very nice bit of design that didn't throw my effort away and reset me to zero again. I might do some more this time around, now that I know it's not all for naught if I can't hit 100 during the event's return.

 

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It would be REALLY nice if for the next 'season' you explicitly state upfront when the hell it's ending. I have at least one friend who gave up on Nightwave because he started late and ended up thinking he had fallen too far behind to get to the end rewards.

Say how dang long it's gonna last, don't just shrug and 'eh' at us next time. It doesn't help anyone. All the other events you've given concrete durations, why was Nightwave different?

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I am SO happy I got past rank 30 last week. Half the challenges this week are just a massive bucket of poop!

  • Conservationist: Not the worst of the bunch, but a lot of people either don't care about this activity, or got burned out at some point. Personally, I don't really enjoy looking for poop and imitating mating calls. Do you have any idea, how hard it is to pry a bolarola in heat off your leg?
  • Gilded: Again? For those of us with the gear we want already gilded, this is just a waste of resources and time.
  • Defense with Friends: The problem with this has already been brought to your attention ad nauseum. So when are you going to do something about it? Next season?
  • Hold your Breath: The fact that you haven't reacted to the vehement negative feedback from last time this was dumped in our laps is astounding. Are you actively trying to piss people off?
  • Survival with Friends: Second "friends" challenge this week. And another endurance run at that.

Luckily I don't have to do any of these, this week or the rest of this season. It is also noticable, that I don't have to stress and worry about doing enough challenges before the end of the season. I enjoy playing now more than after Nightwave got implemented. That should be a red flag to whoever came up with this idea.

 

 

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In this case it was DE's attempt to avoid monitoring NW the way they apparently did with Alerts thats causing this little dose of fun, they wanted to get a fire & forget way of setting up monthly & weekly stuff, in so doing, they cant change the code "allegedly" or are unwilling to due to what it may effect, break or so forth.

So "allegedly" this return of the sh!t sandwich buffet was beyond their control to stop, I say Allegedly because I wouldn'tthink folks would be that flippant to not allow SOME ability to alter, change, remove or otherwise modify any aspect of the very product they created.

Still no excuse, but its still just bad decisions or shortsighted thinking & that I can forgive so long as they arent repeated again when the opportunity comes when the previous excuse & due time have given every opportunity to change & prevent the same mistakes from happening.

But if that truly was the case & they DID in fact shoot themselves in the foot with a harpoon gun, it gives great precedent for Skynet to get cracking on the world takeover thing, were good n ripe for it.

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I was afraid this one would return.

Spoiler

a7CyM5X.jpg

Now I have 2...

Spoiler

spj2gz7.jpg

Why am I keeping on to these?

To deliver something of evidence, so you could see how much of a terrible challenge, this is.

Having my modular weapons all crafted, and designed the way I want them.
It becomes pretty pointless, to craft one... just for the nightwave achievement.

There's no difficulty in this.
Instead, it forces the player to waste resources.
Not that I have to worry about those either.

Point is, that this task feels forced.
Our hand is moved, and we do not have the freedom of choice anymore all of a sudden.
Unless we choose, not to do the task.
Which is counter-intuitive to the whole nightwave achievement implementation.

It is forced, convoluted, and tedious.
Certainly there can be some better idea than these.

On a sidenote, this goes for the forma one as well.

Is it not better when and how, someone chooses to use their forma?
Instead of having to use them only, just that week?
Keeping people from using forma on a weapon, because... maybe next week, that one challenge might return?
It feels like an awful way to push people, to buy some forma from the market (should they have ran out).

Which again...
Robs the player, of their free will.

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48 minutes ago, Yrkul said:

I am SO happy I got past rank 30 last week. Half the challenges this week are just a massive bucket of poop!

  • Conservationist: Not the worst of the bunch, but a lot of people either don't care about this activity, or got burned out at some point. Personally, I don't really enjoy looking for poop and imitating mating calls. Do you have any idea, how hard it is to pry a bolarola in heat off your leg?
  • Gilded: Again? For those of us with the gear we want already gilded, this is just a waste of resources and time.
  • Defense with Friends: The problem with this has already been brought to your attention ad nauseum. So when are you going to do something about it? Next season?
  • Hold your Breath: The fact that you haven't reacted to the vehement negative feedback from last time this was dumped in our laps is astounding. Are you actively trying to piss people off?
  • Survival with Friends: Second "friends" challenge this week. And another endurance run at that.

Luckily I don't have to do any of these, this week or the rest of this season. It is also noticable, that I don't have to stress and worry about doing enough challenges before the end of the season. I enjoy playing now more than after Nightwave got implemented. That should be a red flag to whoever came up with this idea.

 

 

Conservationist and Gild I'll skip. The endurance runs I'll skip too, I know a lot of other people love the endurance runs so I have no problem with them existing.

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On 2019-03-04 at 10:47 PM, [DE]Bear said:

Hey Tenno,

Nightwave is here in all of it’s Nora Night-backed glory, and there has been a lot of back and forth (both on the forums and internally) about the challenges and how to accrue Nightwave standing. Series 1 of Nightwave is our first attempt at this addition to Warframe, and we want to thank you all for sharing your thoughts and requests. We will be using this thread to gather feedback from everyone on all Platforms! 

So at first pass, we are seeing some concerns rise to the top:

  • Ayatan Challenges - too RNG dependent.
  • Survival Challenges - too long in one sitting.
  • Friend / Clan Challenges - "I have no friends/my friends don't play Warframe". 

For some of these Elite challenges, we were attempting to speak to the endurance runners, but it seems we may have missed the mark - if you liked it, or didn't like it, comment below. In the end, we wanted to make a series of challenges that spoke to every type of player, but we do not want to do so at the cost of enjoyment overall.

Nightwave is still new to the community and we are expecting to see more feedback come as the series progresses - you've only seen a % of all Acts, so as Series 1 progresses we need your feedback on the appearing Acts. We've seen players responding with some possible solutions that would make these challenges more piecemeal, balance the resources needed to complete some challenges, and assess social requirements to get your goodies.

We will be applying what we have learned to Nightwave Series 2 - but can only improve with constructive, detailed posts about what you like / didn't like about acts. Knowing what you like is just as important as what you don't like. 
 

In this week it seems that the player feedback is worth nothing. Long long long missions with friends.

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Can we have Nightwave challenge cycler. You know when you didn't wanna do that challenge you can abandon it and will be replaced with other random challenge instead

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That's the week I'm going to insist that we need a weekly cap on Nightwave reputation points from missions and, with this cap introduced, far more missions available, so we avoid a week with too much "I will never do that, it's too much time consuming and I don't even have the gear" missions -_-.

Anyway, I've seen people commenting that "Digital Extremes did not listen". Well, read their post a little bit more carefully: they have decided they will implement these changes in Season 2. We should continue to make sure that we're not blocked by such a list of discouraging missions, though, but let's not jump to conclusions too fast on whether they're listening.

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Please make up your collective minds as to whether Warframe is supposed to be that "bites of content" 20-minute-or-less sessions game you play before a date that DE explicitly talked about in a recentish devstream to justify why ESO is balanced to make going past 8 waves typically not worthwhile due to bad tiles, enemy sets and out-of-control efficiency scaling, or a game where a 60 minute Survival (instead of, you know, 3 sessions of 20 minutes, perhaps starting at a much higher difficulty) is somehow reasonable. The 2 are basically not reconcilable and make leaving ESO in its state (with e.g. tiles that hardly spawn enemies) just feel unreasonable.

 

I would much rather see a Warframe where ESO is balanced to be viable but not "necessary" to go past 8 waves (the way, you know, Defense, Survival, Interception, etc already ARE) but no in-game challenge issued to the entire playerbase requires more than a 20 or 25 minute session. As-is, you kind of need to go to 25 for your extra relic in an endless fissure, but that's about it, and going past that and rotation C is generally not particularly worthwhile but does at least reward those overpowered enough to do it easily.

 

My personal preference? Make Nightwave Alerts to replace the Survival and Defense concepts this week. Have them be only 20 minutes or 20 waves, respectively, but start at much higher level, and flat-out disable life support tower usage instead of letting 1 troll utterly ruin an hour of work as people are on the extract pad. The last 20 minutes are the actual difficulty, the rest is just mindless tedium, and it's not realistic in a world where connection instability happens. You DE employees designing these challenges need to remember, your player community is not playing the Warframe dev build on an internal company LAN like you do. They're playing the public release on the public internet with all its problems. Host migrations happen. Often. And they're very destructive to these overly long sessions.

 

Finally, the state of Nitain availability is really poor for new players now. With a lot of older players like me having hundreds stockpiled, and new players having to do kind of a lot of Nightwave just to scrap together 15 or 30, it looks really unfair, especially coming out of the same Wolf Creds budget they need to spend from for vital things like Corrosive Projection, Steel Charge and Energy Siphon. Please improve the new player experience by making Nitain more accessible to them. 15 wolf creds for 5 is pretty insane. What am I supposed to tell people I get to join the game now when they see how much Nitain things like Amesha and Vauban Prime cost? 20 Nitain for what is basically an MR fodder nightmare frame to add insult to injury? Ugh... while I can afford it, I just can't justify some of DE's design choices to people I'd like to convince to play the game... it should honestly be 2 Wolf Creds or less for 1 Nitain, buyable individually instead of the bundle. The ability to buy more than one per purchase already exists, why pack them other than to make them even LESS accessible to the newcomers that are desperately going to need to budget their first several hundred wolf creds very carefully. At least we can give them the auras, but that opens the whole other can of worms of "unfair trades" getting support on our backs and banning people... it would be nice if we could just do something equivalent to the old helping out our newcomer friends by letting them know when the alerts they need are running and maybe helping them do them. We can't do anything similar with Nightwave short of carrying them through typically dozens of missions to get them any significant amount of wolf creds. It's broken. Please fix it.

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3 hours ago, _Dark_Schneider_ said:

In this week it seems that the player feedback is worth nothing. Long long long missions with friends.

They got the feedback, it's in the OP thread. Now i think that they want to test how many players that already got over rank 30 would do these challenges again, only for prestige. Or, knowing the deadline of 15/05, how many players pre-30 would skip those anyway. Like an experiment. Evaluate the numbers and decide to keep them for season 2 or not, i guess?

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-04-21 at 3:37 AM, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

But it's not exclusive, because you can farm them or you can buy them.

This is a free to play game. They do need to have sources of revenue in the game to keep it going and to pay for the ever-evolving updates to the game.

Here's what you can do if you don't like that you can't trade standard frames in the game. Farm relics and mods. Sell them for plat even if you sell them as junk items for cheap to get fast sales. Then when you have enough plat buy the frame. It would almost be like you traded for it.

Might I offer a counter?

Each base frame can be earned once, with a varying degree of grind.  Each account starts with three frame slots, can earn one through the story (Excalibur Umbra), and if they do the Nightwave can earn a fifth slot.  The frames which can only be earned once include Mirage, Chroma, Gara, Titania, Octavia, Revenant, Limbo, Nidus, Inaros, Garuda, Harrow, and Atlas.  12 frames which can only be earned once but must fit into 4 slots.  The remaining unlisted frames could be earned functionally infinitely, without having to be purchased.  Highlighting the Primes (sans Excalibur) as something time locked is missing the base frames you only get one crack at.

 

DE has built in the need to spend real money.  Even if we factor out the starting platinum (75) and the amount we've gotten free (at least 75 more, depending upon how long you've played and what you've seen), you're looking at 7 slots for 12 unique frames which cannot be had again once sold.  I personally think this is fine, but functionally makes you spend at least $80 on the game once, to get the platinum to buy slots (independent of the prime and weapons which is functionally the core of your purchase.  

 

Again, DE is not a charity.  They don't hide this, and have not been anything but clear on the need for investment to keep the game going.  None of this reflects on the Nightwave, nor is it a point of contention (personally).  This is tangential to the discussion of the Nightwave.  It related back via the "rewards" being less rewarding than would be reasonable considering the previous alert system rewards.

 

 

 

Edit:

Unrelated to the above response, I believe we've hit peak stupid in Nightwave.  In one week we've got 40 wave defense and two 60 minute survivals.  The former is something that you literally cannot do without a good Nekros, and the later was wiped away last time because it was a mess.  On top of these...gems....you've got a Clem survival and a conservation mission.  

What was last week again?  Right, stuff that was mildly challenging but could be done by anyone (8 runs of Orb Vallis bounties being the longest stretch).  

On a different note, the wolf spawned again.  In nearly 8 weeks of gameplay he's dropped the two most common drops twice.  But at least he's dropped a boat load of uncommon mods....Sigh.

 

This event gets better, entirely dependent upon RNG.  Tasks are generated by RNG, sorted by RNG, and the only saving benefit seems to be when RNG gives you an easy week that allows you to "play the game in bite size chunks."  Noting heavily there that this terminology was used to sell ESO and SO as new game modes.

 

Please, stop DE.  Nightwave is a steaming mess.  The Alert system was imperfect, but was less of a chore than Nightwave.  More importantly, new players were rewarded and offered better choice (if an alert for a reward was not desired, it would always come back later).  Right now, Nightwave is a weekly chore list which punishes if you don't accept whatever goal pops up, and an hour of grind will only reward you with 15 wolf credits.  

Maybe if earning prestige was worth it (yeah, 15 credits is a bad joke), and we knew how much each missed challenge impacted us, it'd be worth it.  As we stand now, Warframe becoming a simulated farming situation, circa the Farmville era, is a step in the wrong direction.  Previously, the farming was well hidden because we could choose how, but between Cryotic, Kuva, and Nightwave that illusion has largely been destroyed.  If this is the future, consider me like the rest of my clan, onto new things.  If DE can't fix something after 8 weeks, then there's no hope to bring in new players.  No new players, unless console expansions occur, are the death knell for this game.  That would be a shame.

Edited by masterofdetiny
Added additional response.
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I'm not really a new player so to speak, but I was never interested in the Open-World aspect of the game. For Nightwave, it requires you to Gild a Modular weapon, and doing the math, it is impossible for me to achieve that much standing by the end of the week. With it being an impossible mission to accomplish if not already knee-deep in Ostron Standing, I don't understand why this one is "new player friendly." Just some general feedback, hope this gets read.

-Signed,

The Tenno

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I realized why i felt "forced" to do challenges, so i'll write here...

We don't have any information about future challenges would be, so if i skip this week's challenge, there is a chance that those challenges were easiest one.

It doesn't happen in common sense, but actually possible... maybe some balancing is needed, because for now, it's not balanced at all even without subjective matter.

Some takes one hour, some takes 10 minutes, and some takes 3 days...

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