Jump to content
Dante Unbound: Share Bug Reports and Feedback Here! ×

Nightwave + alerts removal feedback


SilverBones
 Share

Recommended Posts

On 2019-04-23 at 6:57 AM, Arc5in said:

(...)  Warframe, as a free to play loot oriented game, has always been psychologically manipulative, but up until now DE have always done a laudable job of tempering that, and maintaining a difficult balance between paid for luxury/convenience and a complete gaming experience that does not actually require spending any real money.

Warframe is the only F2P game many of us know of that does not have any content locked behind paywalls, and allows accessible means of acquiring premium in-game currency within the game via player trade. So even the developers' bread-and-butter items, like inventory slots, can be unlocked without spending real money. This is quite remarkable, and it is highly appreciated by many of us, even those of us who have spent real money on the game and didn't mind doing so. We still love that we didn't feel we had to, and it was our choice, one we were happy to make because we were happy to support such a great developer. (...)

Thank you for taking the time to articulate what I've wanted to say but couldn't be bothered to. 

I've made myself part of the problem by finishing the current season, partly because the 'fear of missing out' worked on me and partly because I wanted to be able to provide feedback as someone who has been part of it. 

Seeing this week's bucket list it seems clear DE are staying true to form by pushing the envelope and including several of the least liked chores in order to get completion metrics to inform their decisions for Nighwave going forward. That's OK as far as it goes from a design standpoint.  

DE are frequently praised as the studio that came up with 'Micro-transactions done right' (to quote a popular video) and who have kept me vested in their game without making the balance between grind and enjoyment feel too overbearing. In interviews they've been clear about this being a conscious, ongoing effort and integral to the game's soul. I believe they're sincere about this both as a company and as developers, and I firmly believe Warframe has flourished because of it. It deserves to. 

However: Not even during Hemagate, the grindfest that was the original Plains or the first iteration of Riven mods did I feel that FOMO was being pushed so heavily, nor get the sense that loyalty was being enforced to the same degree it is now. The time-gated reward tables, the hard season reset and the all-or-nothing nature of the chores we're given has me feeling less interested in the game than I believe I ever have. 

Nora misses her mark almost entirely. I'm not a dreamer acting true to my truest self, nor is the reptile tickle of a reward in my backbrain (sic) particularly engaging. I've been landed with a second job I neither want nor need and I'm not even bored, not even very annoyed. Just caring less, playing less, putting more of my free time into other games.
It probably says something that I felt this way three days into Nightwave but couldn't be bothered to provide feedback until now.  
 

A rework of the alert system was worth a shot but as mechanics go Nightwave is much too intrusive and much too overbearing. If narrative cohesion requires a seasonal format, then let the seasonal reset be confined specifically to the narrative - not the materials and unique rewards.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, Rodrigo_Martinez said:

Would be nice to remove 'friend/clan only' condition, so people will be able to do it in random parties.

 

16 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

We sort of can. Just form your random group and friend up before starting whatever node you want to do. Best if you friend up with everyone else just to make sure that you don't lose one person just before the end and miss out on your goal. 

 

15 hours ago, Rodrigo_Martinez said:

So, I can make a friend while in the mission, and it will count?

 

16 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Just form your random group and friend up before starting whatever node you want to do.

☝️

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As someone with crippling anxiety issues. I can't do long-form missions. The pressure over the course of an hour would get too intense to handle. 

A way to accumulate up to an hour would be much easier for people like me that can't commit to an hour of sustained play without excess stress. 

Every time I see a "Stay 40 rounds" or "Stay an hour" my heart just sinks. 

It's such a painful thing to go through. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, HollowRaven said:

As someone with crippling anxiety issues. I can't do long-form missions. The pressure over the course of an hour would get too intense to handle. 

A way to accumulate up to an hour would be much easier for people like me that can't commit to an hour of sustained play without excess stress. 

Every time I see a "Stay 40 rounds" or "Stay an hour" my heart just sinks. 

It's such a painful thing to go through. 

Personally, I don't like gambling about an hour on a mission only to have an 11th hour failure rending the entire sunk time pointless.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Decided to try the 60hr thing with kiva survival. Easy right?

Had my fiancé as a nova and me as a Nekros. Ended up running out of LS at 47 mins. 

Was desecrate on? Yes.

Were there enemies? Yes.

Maybe it was just bad luck, but I simply don’t want to waste my time trying again. I’ve done it successfully before with just us, so of course I’m going to be upset.

 I don’t gave anything against adding anyone just for this, but I’m also very nervous about griefers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I love the story aspect, but the simple fact of the matter is this season is too grindy. I came back to Warframe after a break and have been, no joke, playing for 6-12 hours a day, every day, completing every challenge for the past few weeks, and I'm only halfway done thanks to the late start. Not only am I worried it's literally impossible for me to get to the end no matter what I do at this point, but I'm on track to burn myself out on Warframe within a month or two of coming back. 

Here are my suggestions:

  1. Make progression non-linear. If I only care about one thing, and that thing is 3/4 of the way down the line, it's a massive chore to get it, and leaves little time for the parts of the game I actually want to play. This is the main contributor to potential burnout. Perhaps make all rewards cred-based for ala carte, or create several shorter trees.
  2. Allow rewards to potentially return one day, similar to the prime vault. True timed exclusives are punishment to anyone who takes a vacation, and disincentivises old players from returning.
  3. Make it clear how much time is left. If I put in all this effort to grind for something I couldn't possibly get... yeah.

    Also, be aware that Nightwave is currently very prominent, and it has given Warframe a somewhat different aesthetic feel. This isn't necessarily a problem, but I thought the feedback might be helpful to know that Nora Night is currently holding more spotlight than any other character. The perpetual grind and checking of missions contributes a lot to that.
Edited by Zaenos
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, Ikusias said:

@corpusbonds did you convert the towers to kuva capture? in that case they don't count as life support but still give a tiny bit of it when completed (the name even gets changed to kuva-something)

Oh of course!

 I was picking up the smaller modules like I did before but the enemies just didn’t drop them enough. I checked to make sure desecrate was on- it was- but they were only spewing out Heath and energy blurbs with no air support.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, (PS4)corpusbonds said:

Decided to try the 60hr thing with kiva survival. Easy right?

Had my fiancé as a nova and me as a Nekros. Ended up running out of LS at 47 mins. 

Was desecrate on? Yes.

Were there enemies? Yes.

Maybe it was just bad luck, but I simply don’t want to waste my time trying again. I’ve done it successfully before with just us, so of course I’m going to be upset.

 I don’t gave anything against adding anyone just for this, but I’m also very nervous about griefers.

1) Speedva? 

2) what was everyone else? 

3) did everyone stick together? 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I really like the new alert system (yes you've guessed it) but! I am solo with a dojo so why does it have to be friends or clan members. Why not just four players. My biggest disappointment is once you have got yhe wolf's armour there is no random reward afterwards, just the currency. Overall I enjoyed the experience, it just needs tweaking slightly. Never saw any arching missions, but that could have just been me. I know I'm probably in the minority as a solo ghost clan tennis but would it hurt to cater? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

1) Speedva? 

2) what was everyone else? 

3) did everyone stick together? 

 

My fiancé and I as mentioned above.

Trust me, we know what we were doing. As I’ve said we’ve done this before- just the two of us- with no issues.

 There were plenty of enemies, desecrate was on, and we were together. They just didn’t drop life support.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, (PS4)corpusbonds said:

My fiancé and I as mentioned above.

Trust me, we know what we were doing. As I’ve said we’ve done this before- just the two of us- with no issues.

 There were plenty of enemies, desecrate was on, and we were together. They just didn’t drop life support.

For that mission to work, you absolutely HAVE to have four players.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

For that mission to work, you absolutely HAVE to have four players.

I’ve done it before with my fiancé and I only. So no, it doesn’t HAVE to be four people. It is possible solo or with two people.

Edited by (PS4)corpusbonds
Edited phone errors
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nightwave shouldn't be on a timer people should be able to take as long as they want and then move onto whatever comes next.

Alerts should be ran side by side.

Nice to see I now need even more Nitian with this new Forma.

Off todo some fishing in Sea of Thieves, was hopeful the dev's would maybe see the light but looks like they are adamant they are turning the grind up to 11 with boring chores and punishments and alerts won't be returning.

Was fun while it lasted but then you went and made it stressful, enjoy the money you had out of me you won't be getting anymore and your another player down.

Oh and thanks for the month forum ban just for raising my concerns.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Might come off a bit more toxic than normal as just wasted like 50 minutes doing this stupid defense mission.
Just did 40 rounds of defense, at around wave 37, Myself and the friend were split into two separate games.. Eg No wave 40 completed with a friend. Bunch of time wasted. 

As well as challenges such as survival without using life support? Its as though DE doesn't understand how much of a population in this world just want to watch the world burn. Such as waiting 55 minutes through a survival to activate the life support for the giggles. 

Personal Opinion, Completely remove any friend aspects to super long missions where network/ bugs/ or Trolls can cause nearly an hour of your time to be wasted.
Or why not make it an accumulative "Survive 60 minutes worth of kuva survival with a friend or clan mate within a week" "Complete a total of 40 waves of defense within a week" Or even bump up the numbers a little if you did that change.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Been hearing about this alot, too many people trying either one, not difficult to friend randoms to accomplish the goal (not my cup of tea & doesnt sit well with me personally as thats just BS in my opinion, friends for sake of profit seems more like prostitution in a very VERY hyperbole kinda way, but still)

But these long survivals, given host migrations, glitches & the minor doses of fun that can sink an entire days worth of give a f#%k in either trying to accomplish these.

But they've explained that they couldn't remove or tweak the system until its run Its course, not sure the reason, but I'd hazard to guess it'd break more than it would fix if they did try to interrupt the NW cycles & hoop jumps.

So i say give them the chance to rectify it, maybe theres something they do in the last week of the event that actually crescendos this tepid pile into something interesting, tear up the Saturn Six prison colony for NW rep, an Infested / Sentient wolf boss fight where he's more than a screaming HP bar.

DE I hope your really listening, as this wont stand well if the same mistakes are repeated knowing full well the aggravation some of these NW tweaks have caused since its inception.

At this point all we can do is make sure they know damn well what we as players did & didnt like about it, then give DE the chance to make something better.

The balls in their court, approaching 100 pages of gripes, complaints & a smidgen of genuine concern over seeing this amazing game succumb to EA style game butchery.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So first of all, I returned few days ago after a short break.

First thing I noticed - alerts are gone. There is nightweave now, pushing her/their community BS on me (friend, clan missions). Fine, whatever. Now for any reasonable outcome I should complete them daily - sounds like "fun". And anyway I am apparently late to the party anyway, so I wont get SH. even if I tried (due to upcoming reset). Well alerts weren't the only interesting part of the game anyway. And I like how ignoring them fixes game's neediness in the grind area.

So I tried to play the game, and the second thing I noticed was the Wolf... And while he seem to spawn at wiki's rate at lower tier missions, for higher tier nightmares rate is noticaby higher (and seem to be also tied to gear score?) ~ which is quite annoying considering his SH-ty rewards (nightweave reputation I HAVE NO USE FOR, and bugs). So for example I attempted 4 higher difficulty missions on my gear leveling loadout, and had 4-aholes spawn (2x Wolf, 1x S.Stalker + 1x C.Vor, one was normal). Similar thing tended to happen on 4-key derelicts, forcing me into cookiecutter builds for difficlty type and purpose. And it is not only me - NOONE is playing those missions, and I assume for similar reasons...
So now I have a choice: I either play it safe (in which case rarely anything spawns) dying inside from BRAIN DAMAGE LEVELS OF BOREDOM or try something more challenging but then game seem to have higher than statistical (certinly not the same, and it is not as "randomisation" algorithms cannot know gear level/stats or mission difficulty or modificators) chance to artificially ("randomly") up the difficulty from "Hard" to "F* YOU"...

So, is there anything else to do between BRAINDEAD easy and F* YOU difficult? Is it supposed to push me to stick to open worlds, operator, sanctuary onslought stuff?
Have they at least fixed rewards dissapearing if host leave after chaining bounties? Or is operator stuff not as much of a grind as it was in the past? I don't get it - WHERE THE GAME part of DE's business product is right now?

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

To difficult or too easy it is pointless (incorrect) argument. And it is not one I am making.

What am I complaining is that already difficult load-mission pair (because this is difficulty, BOTH challange and tool one uses to address it) getting RANDOMLY ("more or less") multiplied by random ever-presend unpredicable occurance - making it impossible for a user to choose its difficulty.

I am not saying that I cannot beat them or successfully complete the mission anyway - because most of the time I can. The issue is very idea that it is ok to either waste a SH-ton of my time or put me into situation where I am artificially made to loose* (unless I use "solution" of having certain or/and overpowered gear).

 

*And it is much common in gaming industry than you think (as can be seen by it being incorporated into some disgusting monetisation patents).

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What I want is HONESTY. If the rate is higher than 4-6% at higher difficulty (AND IT IS) then why there is not information about it anywhere?
Then there is a question of rate being affected by gear score, mastery level and amount of weapons.

There is no information about it, and it is something that I think should be clear. If I have 75% chance of encountering Wolf, Stalker, Syndicate - if I jump into 60+ mission with full *unranked* set, then why not admit it? I did a ton of low level missions, Wolf hasn't spawn single time, then I do high level nightmares and he pops up constantly. Saying it is 4-6% across all missions is like an insult. Same goes for having to select between BRAINDEAD and ARTIFICIALLY impossible challanges.

Blizzard did this sht with their -10L to +10L difficulty modificators on open world pvp ~ just so they can line they pockets. And they succeed - financially, for a while at least...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, (PS4)GEN-Son_17 said:

Wow....you literally just counter argued what the vets are saying is too easy. This is exactly the problem. No one can agree with what they want. What would make the ideal update for you?

As long as you have one weapon for crit-rad like a Rubico p or pyranna p. He's not that bad. Though if you're soloing him without a rad based weapon it can be somewhat tough. Also with how many people play the game it's a bit unrealistic to assume we could all share the same opinion

Edited by stormy505
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...