(PSN)RedGhost135 Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Personally speaking this update has taken a lot of fun out of the game for me. The removal of quick melee and this auto block nonsense have completely neutered the effectiveness of most of my favorite melees, and I'm not the only one who has a problem with it. Take the hirudo for example. Was good at it's job with quick melee, and you only switched to the stance strikes to show off due to them not FLOWING like the quick ones. DE said this was to make combat more fluid, but it seems to just have gotten chunkier 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemyerelis Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 🤷♂️ feels the same for the most part imo. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annnoth Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 (edited) Instead of calling out the system as a whole we should start isolating what exactly is wrong. Sounds like the problem here is stance animations restricting movement too much and locking you in longer than normal animations. We should instead be bringing attention to how bad some of the stances are and why that made quick melee was favorable to begin with. It's not the new melee systems fault for showing us how painful some stances are, especially when it overall does so much to smooth things out as is. Edited March 21, 2019 by Annnoth 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Mono-Pop Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Just now, Chaemyerelis said: 🤷♂️ feels the same for the most part imo. I’m with you tbh, in almost all situations it feels the same. But like we have a weapon swap speed mod up around 2000% Personally, I’m pretty satisfied with the changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loza03 Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Just now, Annnoth said: Instead of calling out the system as a whole we should start isolating what exactly is wrong. Sounds like the problem here is stance animations restricting movement too much and locking you in longer than normal animations. We should instead be bringing attention to how bad some of the stances are and why that made quick melee was favorable to begin with. ^^^^ Agreed. The new system has great potential, there's just flaws to iron out. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Mono-Pop Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Annnoth said: Instead of calling out the system as a whole we should start isolating what exactly is wrong. Sounds like the problem here is stance animations restricting movement too much and locking you in longer than normal animations. We should instead be bringing attention to how bad some of the stances are and why that made quick melee was favorable to begin with. It's not the new melee systems fault for showing us how painful some stances are, especially when it overall does so much to smooth things out as is. Was part of melee 3 going to include some stance reworks? I could’ve sworn I heard that on one of the dev streams but I can’t be sure 🤔 I suppose growing pains were inevitable, most of us only ever really used stance combos to be flashy, never out of practicality, maybe some of this awkwardness will pass as people get more proficient with their stances... But I do think some stances need to be adjusted. Edited March 21, 2019 by (PS4)Mono-Pop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)RedGhost135 Posted March 21, 2019 Author Share Posted March 21, 2019 I'm not calling out the system as a whole but these aspects they put in make the new system seem worse than the old one. I don't recall anyone asking for these changes (except for people that only use the zenistar) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annnoth Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, (PS4)Mono-Pop said: Was part of melee 3 going to include some stance reworks? I could’ve sworn I heard that on one of the dev streams but I can’t be sure 🤔 In the end, I don't think we know. The last time I remember them talking about the system as a whole so in-depth was during a very early showing of melee 3.0 which doesn't resemble what it seems like they are going for now (biggest point being super simplified controls now vs giving us more buttons to hit). This is only phase one so we will have to see where the next phases take us. Edited March 21, 2019 by Annnoth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvelous_A Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Unless you were using polearm meta (which I didn't) it's overall an improvement over the old melee 2.0. Especially greatsword. It's a breeze to use after the update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)RedGhost135 Posted March 21, 2019 Author Share Posted March 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said: Unless you were using polearm meta (which I didn't) it's overall an improvement over the old melee 2.0. Especially greatsword. It's a breeze to use after the update. It's completely screwed up my play style with greatswords too, tempo Royale had great quick melee for paracesis, and now it feels sluggish 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airwolfen Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Stance overhauls are still in the production stage. there will be changes in the future. As others here have said as well, some weapons have overly drawn out combos. @(PS4)RedGhost135 While it is not Ideal, Have you tried your melee without a stance equipped? For some weapons that brings it back to another base set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvelous_A Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 7 minutes ago, (PS4)RedGhost135 said: It's completely screwed up my play style with greatswords too, tempo Royale had great quick melee for paracesis, and now it feels sluggish What do you mean sluggish? The quick attack of Tempo Royale is exactly the same of the first half of its default combo. If anything greatsword benefits the most from this change coz it's easier to pull off combos with the new melee mechanics. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)RedGhost135 Posted March 21, 2019 Author Share Posted March 21, 2019 @Airwolfen I kinda can't unequip my stances because of the extra slots it gives me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airwolfen Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, (PS4)RedGhost135 said: @Airwolfen I kinda can't unequip my stances because of the extra slots it gives me That's what I mean with that its not ideal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)RedGhost135 Posted March 21, 2019 Author Share Posted March 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said: What do you mean sluggish? The quick attack of Tempo Royale is exactly the same of the first half of its default combo. If anything greatsword benefits the most from this change coz it's easier to pull off combos with the new melee mechanics. Combos were already easy to pull with the old system, and you had quick melee for crowd control Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Mono-Pop Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, (PS4)RedGhost135 said: @Airwolfen I kinda can't unequip my stances because of the extra slots it gives me What’s worse for you, using slightly less leveled mods, or a stance you don’t like? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nash Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 The Problem I have with the new update is autoblock, I hate it especially when using gun blades. Blocking should be a Skill you master, not something that happens automatically. Other than that I just want melee to reach dmc levels 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniDax Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 51 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said: Unless you were using polearm meta (which I didn't) it's overall an improvement over the old melee 2.0. Especially greatsword. It's a breeze to use after the update. I disagree because of the removal of manual block. A lot of melee 2.0 functionality was based around manual block, from block gliding to melee wall latching to various stance combos. If they added back a manual block, then it would be an improvement. But with all the functionality that we lose, it's an overall downgrade because of the loss of key functionality. And, to be clear, yes, we can get back that most of that functionality if we unequip our guns, but that's still a downgrade because 1) in Melee 2.0, we didn't have to unequip guns to get full melee functionality, and 2) in Melee 2.0, we could bind block to whatever we wanted, whereas even if we unequip guns in Melee 2.9997, we still can't bind block to a key of our choice (it's forced to be the same key as gun aim). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemyerelis Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 My only problem with the new system is that if you're using an exalted melee weapon and you're knocked out of it and you don't have a melee weapon equipped your character will just stand there. You can't use your ability to activate your exalted weapon again and can't shoot your primary or secondary. You have to actually weapon swap and your character will pull out their secondary. Anyone else get this ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)ForNoPurpose Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 3 hours ago, (PS4)Mono-Pop said: Was part of melee 3 going to include some stance reworks? I could’ve sworn I heard that on one of the dev streams but I can’t be sure 🤔 I suppose growing pains were inevitable, most of us only ever really used stance combos to be flashy, never out of practicality, maybe some of this awkwardness will pass as people get more proficient with their stances... But I do think some stances need to be adjusted. Yes, iirc they going to redo each stance for better mobility overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firetempest Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 It's Melee 2.99997 Stance changes and feedback changes have yet to be implemented. Many more changes coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seprent Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 this is jsut phase one of the melee changes from what ive gathered to understand its going into atleast 3 phases this is phase one fluidity between gun and melee next is going to be mods and re balances for said mods then stances and how combos are done from memory more universal one stance combo imput works over any other stance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Zero_029 Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 4 hours ago, Annnoth said: Instead of calling out the system as a whole we should start isolating what exactly is wrong. Sounds like the problem here is stance animations restricting movement too much and locking you in longer than normal animations. We should instead be bringing attention to how bad some of the stances are and why that made quick melee was favorable to begin with. It's not the new melee systems fault for showing us how painful some stances are, especially when it overall does so much to smooth things out as is. Agreed. I've said the following since day 1 of Melee 3.0 being announced: "If DE is going to rework Melee then they need to rebuild melee combat from the ground up. Stances & their Combos need a 100% rework/redesign. Enemies require both AI rework & contact/damage collision. Melee is deeply ingrained in the game, it can't just be slightly modified." This might sound crazy but DE said the melee system was inspired by Devil May Cry. Well I they need to go ALL in then. Not halfway Make the combos fluid & quick like in DMC, allow enemies to be Staggered, Ragdolled, Stunlocked, & beaten to a pulp from Combos. (Boss class enemies should be the only exception to this). Allow Jump cancels at ALL times. Allow the roll/dodge to guarantee invulnerability (This aspect of Rolling Guard should be innate to Warframes, but only DURING the roll.) Charged Melee attacks should Knock enemies into the air or Knock them down to the ground (Depending on direction held) with the player character in pursuit so we can do aerial combos/punish enemies. That said, the current melee does nail the fluid switch from melee to range that the DMC series nails so fluidly. But it is clunky, I'm not sure how but somehow I've managed to find a hole in the transition from melee to Ranged; IE: Instead of swapping back to my ranged weapon it swaps to "No Weapon" as if I had a Scanner equipped. I'm not sure "How" this occurs but it does concern me. However, with this being Melee 3.0 Phase 1, I'm going to be patient. But I do admit, the Auto-Block is "awkward" kind of like when you get a new pair of shoes. You don't mind them but there is an adjustment period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)robotwars7 Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 6 hours ago, Annnoth said: It's not the new melee systems fault for showing us how painful some stances are, especially when it overall does so much to smooth things out as is. this is an excellent point! weapons that were mostly viable in quick melee only were inevitably going to draw the short straw here with the outright removal of Quick Melee, and yes, it goes to show how some stances are actually quite slow and clunky. moves that lock you in place might look fancy, but they are not practical. personally i think each stance should only have one combo that does this, and it should be one other the basic button combo: that way you have to make a conscious decision to do combos that you know will lock you into an animation, rather than doing it accidentally and getting killed as a result. we've all been downed or killed at some point for doing animations and saying "I might have survived if I wasn't locked into that animation", so have those combos by all means, but make it so they are a lot less likely to be performed by accident, and something we can do when we know we can get away with it (weak enemy, nothing else shooting at you etc.) as with anything, it will take time to adjust tot he new system, and being rolled out in phases has it's pros and cons: easier and faster for DE, but it also means systems will remain incomplete for a little while between each update. I look forward to the Stances rework, my biggest complaint is being animation-locked, as I said above: ideally most combos should be able to be performed while moving freely. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renginus Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 agree auto block is 0 skill .. it block auto slams etc. but melee changes are great i never look at melee combos cuz i use guns pripary but now its much better and that slams ... i dont like one thing now seems like all veapons have x meters slamms radius fast ee is low anyway so do slide e Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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