The ULTIMATE Wukong Rework!

[GLORY_TO_CHUNGUS]

New Rework!!: 

 

People usually give a spiel about how the frame needs a rework.

Everyone knows already

Wukong sucks

Here’s my rework

 

Current Base Stats

 

Armor: 225 Health: 100 (300 at rank 30) Energy: 100 (150 at rank 30) Shield: 125 (375 at rank 30) Speed: .95

- Wukong is a melee frame, not a slow sack of batteries

 

This is what the base stats should be

 

Armor: 500 Health: 150 (375 at rank 30) Energy: 110 (175 at rank 30) Shield: 25 (75 at rank 30) Speed: 1.05

 

New passive: Wukong can do multiple mid-air jumps

 

Canonically, Wukong is a master in martial arts and is basically monkey superman but more OP. So, he shouldn’t be as slow as a sloth and shouldn’t have more shield than health.. He’s immortal in the story

 

Now, onto abilities. Right now, they all suck except for his 2. Lets go.

 

 

---

 

1st Ability - Iron Staff - 25E- Wukong summons his staff that feeds off of battle. Every enemy bested by his staff adds 2 seconds to the countdown timer.

- Basically an exalted that's based off of time. Hildryn has an exalted 1 so this isn’t so far out. It should not be an energy drain because of his other abilities (lotsa energy).

- The staff needs to be able to be modded. Like excal’s blade or valkyr’s talons. Also, change the stats of the staff. This is what they should be.

 

Heat - 40.0

Impact - 75

Puncture - 80.5

Slash - 15.5

Crit Chance - 35%

Crit Mult - 2.5x

Status Chance - 23%

Attack Speed - 1.00

 

If anyone’s wondering, the Gram Prime is still better than this.

- Staff keeps the combo/length passive it currently has to compete with excals across the

system.*

 

2nd Ability - Defy - 50E - Wukong defies death by using the souls of his slain enemies as protection. Every 10 enemies killed adds 1 extra “life”.

- Max of ~15 lives based on ability strength.*

- Basically, same thing as his normal 2, except this is to encourage fighting instead of pressing 2 and leaving to make a sandwich.

 

3rd Ability - Martial Arts Master - 75E - Wukong knows exactly where to strike to inflict maximum damage on an enemy. Damage buffs apply to melee only.

- This would have a countdown like valkyr’s warcry.

- Increased damage based on ability strength. Ex. 200% ability strength = 200% more damage.

- Raises crit chance and crit multiplier by 100% (not influenced by ability strength). So, if using his staff and you cast this ability, his crit chance is now 70% and multiplier is 5x.

- The damage goes off of the modded melee you are using in-game.* 

- Also gives a buff to reload speed and fire rate.*

 

4th Ability - Hairs of the Monk - 100E - Wukong creates clones of himself that deal 100%* of the damage he does with the weapon he was using.

- Meaning that if you have your Iron Staff out, the clones will use the staff without having to worry about the countdown.

- Clones have a timer*

- Clones explode when re-casted*

 

 

---

 

Synergy

 

- If you cast your 2 before the 4 and gained an extra life already, the clone will be able to gain a life every 10 enemies they kill. The amount of lives they have left should appear akin to how points appear in the index, above their head when mousing over them.

 

- If casting 2 before the 4, when re-casting the 4, the amount of lives accumulated by the clones are then returned unto Wukong, overcharging his maximum amount of lives and grants him a buff of +speed & +attack speed for a short duration.*

 

- The clones are also affected by Wukong’s 3 if it was cast before casting his 4. However, the clones only gain 50% of what you do. Ex. 200% ability strength = +200% more damage for you, and 100% more for the clones.

 

Regarding the leveling of the Abilities.

 

Iron Staff

Lvl 1 - 7 second countdown

Lvl 2 - 15 second countdown

Lvl 3 - 20 second countdown

 

Defy (ability rank also affects the clone’s synergy with the ability)

Lvl 1 - Need to kill 20 enemies

Lvl 2 - Need to kill 15

Lvl 3 - Need to kill 10

 

Martial Arts Master

Lvl 1 - Does 50% of your Ability Strength

Lvl 2 - Does 75%

Lvl 3 - Does 100%

 

Hairs of the Monk

Lvl 1 - 1 Clone, 50% Dmg

Lvl 2 - 2 Clones, 75% Dmg

Lvl 3 - 3 Clones, 100% Dmg

 

Ending thoughts

 

I realize that this is essentially a complete rework of everything Wukong has currently, but that’s the point.

I understand DE will probably never see this nor consider what I have here, but in the off-chance they do, please please PLEASE make Wukong a playable frame. These are my ideas as to how to make him more into his true canon self and I’d sincerely appreciate any feedback.

Edited March 24, 2019 by GLORY_TO_CHUNGUS
Formatting

[(PSN)LeBlingKing]

Hmm. It doesn't look too bad. Just a whole lotta buffs.

@DeMonkey, what do you think?

[DeMonkey]

 

10 minutes ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing69 said:

Hmm. It doesn't look too bad. Just a whole lotta buffs.

@DeMonkey, what do you think?

Not terrible, main complaints are that it doesn't solve the Iron Staff's problem, lack of range.

Whether I one shot an enemy with 500,000 damage or 5,000,000 is ultimately irrelevant. Damage buffs effectively do nothing for the ability, it does enough already.

Second complaint is that clones as the focus of an ability suck imo, a clone with a gun thematically doesn't fit and isn't likely to happen, a clone with a Melee weapon will have just as much use as... a damp rock.

Third is that Defy is still worthless in 90% of the game with this change. Great, defying death, but outside of endurance runs and "endgame" level stuff how much do we actually die? Umbral Wukong can take Sorties without dying, Defy is just a big energy de-buff in that situation. It needs a buff, imo.

[GLORY_TO_CHUNGUS]

6 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

 

Not terrible, main complaints are that it doesn't solve the Iron Staff's problem, lack of range.

Whether I one shot an enemy with 500,000 damage or 5,000,000 is ultimately irrelevant. Damage buffs effectively do nothing for the ability, it does enough already.

Second complaint is that clones as the focus of an ability suck imo, a clone with a gun thematically doesn't fit and isn't likely to happen, a clone with a Melee weapon will have just as much use as... a damp rock.

Third is that Defy is still worthless in 90% of the game with this change. Great, defying death, but outside of endurance runs and "endgame" level stuff how much do we actually die? Umbral Wukong can take Sorties without dying, Defy is just a big energy de-buff in that situation. It needs a buff, imo.

@DeMonkey Thanks for the response!

I can make some improvements based on your comment.

Iron Staff - Increase range to 13 meters (about as far as plague kripath), and keep the combo/length passive. This passive is applied to your clones.

The Clone ability I made with the assumption that melee 3.0 may make them better. They should act like Umbra but without the ability to cast abilities- He's pretty good imo.

I personally don't know about Defy. There are frames like Rhino and Inaros that people praise for their ability to survive, so it doesn't seem to be a useless ability in my opinion.

 

So basically my idea is just a bunch of Wukongs shoving a 13meter staff into Grineer Heavies

[DeMonkey]

3 minutes ago, GLORY_TO_CHUNGUS said:

So basically my idea is just a bunch of Wukongs shoving a 13meter staff into Grineer Heavies

This, I am 100% down for.

3 minutes ago, GLORY_TO_CHUNGUS said:

I personally don't know about Defy. There are frames like Rhino and Inaros that people praise for their ability to survive, so it doesn't seem to be a useless ability in my opinion.

They deserve that praise. They are both, imo, better at taking damage than Wukong is in the grand scheme of things.

By which I mean, at Sortie and under levels (most of the game) these frames can all generally survive without abilities, just tanky modding and Arcanes. Inaros and Rhino however both have status immunity as well as requiring less management to be tanky with their abilities.

Rhino just requires the occasional rebuilding of Iron Skin, Inaros requires the occasional heal (which can happily be provided by Arcane Grace). Wukong on the other hand requires energy management, health management and consistent recasting (if the ability is used for tanking). And in return you're effectively just as tanky as Rhino/Inaros (aka immortal), but without all the same benefits and stuck with some very subpar other abilities.

Sure, it's the better ability for endurance runs and top end content, but the amount of actual 'content' that's there is irrelevant, and not what we should be balancing around.

You don't have to agree ofc, I know some people enjoy Wukong for Defy (but whhhhhy), just expressing the opinion I've developed over the years.

[GLORY_TO_CHUNGUS]

15 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

This, I am 100% down for.

Yes! 😄

15 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Rhino just requires the occasional rebuilding of Iron Skin, Inaros requires the occasional heal (which can happily be provided by Arcane Grace). Wukong on the other hand requires energy management, health management and consistent recasting (if the ability is used for tanking). And in return you're effectively just as tanky as Rhino/Inaros (aka immortal), but without all the same benefits and stuck with some very subpar other abilities.

I see what you mean! Lore-wise, Wukong literally defeats armies single-handedly, which is partly why I made it 10 kills per life. Immortality is kind of his thing, but I don't know how to make it special to him if you know what Im sayin. Maybe make his skin turn to stone (Pretty sure that happened in the legend lol) and deflect damage back to enemies?

Edited March 22, 2019 by GLORY_TO_CHUNGUS

[MonkeyKV]

Cool rework, I like most of it. The passive seems fun, maybe X2 bullet jump distance? So you can do some cool hops.

The staff range maybe should keep the +range on hits or kills mechanics.

Main gripe is with the 3rd skill. Not a fun skill imo, such a stat buff kinda becomes mandatory and not fun, so just slap it on the staff as a passive buff and get rid of the skill. I personally would like to see at least one of his skills dedicated to team play so he's more desirable in a team. Maybe he spins his staff and scatters his hair in a area around him for x seconds (like baruuk lull) and every second a clone spawns and whacks an enemy with the staff ( like Ash ult) and stuns/knockdown/knocks unconscious/ sunders armor etc. Anything the team can benefit from idk. Would be a good way to get the clone lore in without dealing with the AI.

Anyways just my 2c, sorry for formatting/typo it's 2am and I'm replying from a phone

[MonkeyKV]

@DeMonkey I agree with you regarding the iron staff not needing a DMG buff, but I'm just curious as to what you think will happen soon with it.

The build I found to get the best DMG out of it is using the gladiator set on the frame (garbage mods with one unusable and 2 trash mods) and a stats stick for the other 3 melee mods. This makes the iron staff perform well thanks to the combo/critical counter ramp up. Intended or not this is a garbage mechanic to make it work.

Just wondering if you have found some way to get it to perform well without the gladiator set, specially since the combo counter is going away. I haven't messed with Wu in a while, but I remember him being somewhat dependant on this bogus set to work. And the combo counter going away might hurt his dmg

 

[MeridianArc]

I enjoy using wukong. His abilities are unique and offer a different feel of gameplay. I'm not fond of his #1 as I think it should be a little wider (not as wide as his #4 can get during combos) and have a much longer reach. But aside from his #1, I enjoy his other abilities. His #4 doesn't actually suck. I was tearing through 65+ enemies without an issue and I haven't even done a proper build on it. It allows someone who likes melee to carry two weapons each focused for a different type of enemy. Or go into a mission where you can only use a pistol or something, but still have melee as an option due to his ability. He's just a situation frame, or a guilty pleasure at worst. I'm not against a rework, and some of your stuff does sound interesting, but I'd rather not see #3 go away as a whole since that's one of those unique frame abilities that adds a bit of fun mischief to the gameplay which is kind of his thing.

[MonkeyKV]

5 hours ago, MeridianArc said:

I enjoy using wukong. His abilities are unique and offer a different feel of gameplay. I'm not fond of his #1 as I think it should be a little wider (not as wide as his #4 can get during combos) and have a much longer reach. But aside from his #1, I enjoy his other abilities. His #4 doesn't actually suck. I was tearing through 65+ enemies without an issue and I haven't even done a proper build on it. It allows someone who likes melee to carry two weapons each focused for a different type of enemy. Or go into a mission where you can only use a pistol or something, but still have melee as an option due to his ability. He's just a situation frame, or a guilty pleasure at worst. I'm not against a rework, and some of your stuff does sound interesting, but I'd rather not see #3 go away as a whole since that's one of those unique frame abilities that adds a bit of fun mischief to the gameplay which is kind of his thing.

His #1 is absolute trash

his #2 is good for people that are reasonably new to the game and don't have "endgame" mods/arcanes/etc yet, for everyone else its only a energy drain skill

his #3 is the worst skill to be ever implemented in a game it has no purpose, you basically cant move, you cant deal damage, you simply dont do anything. You dont even need it to escape damage since you're immortal anyways.

#4 need range to be at current meta levels, and current meta levels need to be brought down to 5-6m range. His stick is supposed to be THE ranged melee weapon gameplay. Damage scaled accordingly to melee 3.0 changes to combo counters etc 

He is not a situation frame, there's no situation i can think that he comes to mind before any other frame, heck he doesn't even come 5th on any situation. Guilty pleasure i wont argue we are all guilty of it XD

Hoping for 3 new skills on the rework, i dont like "press skill for godmode". My teen days with single player games with godmode cheats are far behind me.

[GLORY_TO_CHUNGUS]

10 hours ago, MonkeyKV said:

Cool rework, I like most of it. The passive seems fun, maybe X2 bullet jump distance? So you can do some cool hops.

The staff range maybe should keep the +range on hits or kills mechanics.

Main gripe is with the 3rd skill. Not a fun skill imo, such a stat buff kinda becomes mandatory and not fun, so just slap it on the staff as a passive buff and get rid of the skill. I personally would like to see at least one of his skills dedicated to team play so he's more desirable in a team. Maybe he spins his staff and scatters his hair in a area around him for x seconds (like baruuk lull) and every second a clone spawns and whacks an enemy with the staff ( like Ash ult) and stuns/knockdown/knocks unconscious/ sunders armor etc. Anything the team can benefit from idk. Would be a good way to get the clone lore in without dealing with the AI.

Anyways just my 2c, sorry for formatting/typo it's 2am and I'm replying from a phone

Thanks so much for your input! I’m really trying to make this a good and viable rework lol.

 

I think adding distance to his jump passive would actually be harmless and a ton of fun! Thanks! 

 

Currently, I decided on keeping the staffs passive of combo/length and I’m adding 13 meters to range (plague kripath range) to make it more viable. 

 

I understand your gripe with the 3, and I honestly agree - but I made the skill mainly to balance the staff’s base stats (having it as a passive may be too op, so making it cost energy was a way to balance it)  and have a synergy with his clones to make them an actual viable summon. I added +reload speed and +fire rate to appease gun users but decided against gun damage buffs because that’s just not Wukongs thing. I really like your idea of the clones doing the knockdown thingy though! It shouldn’t be a team buff ability because Wukong was essentially a one man army but a little CC wouldn’t be so bad. Currently, the CC I went for was the clone ability. Having up to 4 Wukongs on the field swinging a 13 meter (and growing) staff was my way of creating some CC. 

 

Ill definitely take your suggestions into consideration when I get home lol. I’m writing this from my phone as well! 

Edited March 22, 2019 by GLORY_TO_CHUNGUS
Typo

[MonkeyKV]

2 hours ago, GLORY_TO_CHUNGUS said:

 that’s just not Wukongs thing. Wukong was essentially a one man army

Honestly in my opinion all the frames are one man armies, we have no content currently in the game that remotely challenges us. We sneeze everything dies. 

Ultimately this is a space ninja with Guns games (I would argue it a looter shooter game) not a Wukongs one so I think it's ok to loosely based the frame on the character instead of sticking too hard on the lore, he's a warrior and the game is heavily gun focused so giving him gun buffs is fine imo.

I'm not a fan of your 3rd because it's exactly a skill slot dedicated to balance another skill slot. Making it a passive doesn't turn it OP since it will be used/on regardless. We currently have 2 drain abilities on him with a obnoxious energy cost and we have no energy issues.

Anything interective and not a passive buff I'm game. The rework seems fun to play

Good stuff

[GLORY_TO_CHUNGUS]

6 hours ago, MonkeyKV said:

Honestly in my opinion all the frames are one man armies, we have no content currently in the game that remotely challenges us. We sneeze everything dies. 

Ultimately this is a space ninja with Guns games (I would argue it a looter shooter game) not a Wukongs one so I think it's ok to loosely based the frame on the character instead of sticking too hard on the lore, he's a warrior and the game is heavily gun focused so giving him gun buffs is fine imo.

I'm not a fan of your 3rd because it's exactly a skill slot dedicated to balance another skill slot. Making it a passive doesn't turn it OP since it will be used/on regardless. We currently have 2 drain abilities on him with a obnoxious energy cost and we have no energy issues.

Anything interective and not a passive buff I'm game. The rework seems fun to play

Good stuff

Yeah youre right, I probably shouldnt be so strict on sticking to the lore haha! I just think its interesting.

I agree with you that its a boring ability for the most part, and Im actually taking all the feedback and trying to make a better version of the rework in a document. I was thinking of keeping the current 3, but adding an AoE around Wukong that would pacify a certain amount of enemies or something like that.

I really do appreciate the feedback, I just wish anyone from DE would see this haha. I really feel like this is such a good concept that it could be passable if they made it into the game! But thats just my bias of course 🙂

 

Side note, I was also thinking of making his staff work sorta like excals chromatic blade with energy color = status element and taking off the Fire status I have on it currently.

[DeMonkey]

23 hours ago, GLORY_TO_CHUNGUS said:

I see what you mean! Lore-wise, Wukong literally defeats armies single-handedly, which is partly why I made it 10 kills per life. Immortality is kind of his thing, but I don't know how to make it special to him if you know what Im sayin. Maybe make his skin turn to stone (Pretty sure that happened in the legend lol) and deflect damage back to enemies?

Ah, you then struggle with the Chroma/Unairu problem. The reflected damage is never very much.

My own rework thread deals with drawing enemy aggro and the potential for self buffing, thoughts on that?

19 hours ago, MonkeyKV said:

Just wondering if you have found some way to get it to perform well without the gladiator set

To be completely honest, I never felt it was doing too terribly against level 100's before Gladiator mods were a thing. They're just overkill... deliciously high numbered overkill.

As for what they'll do to it? I reckon they'll buff it's damage and act like it's a job well done. 

[GLORY_TO_CHUNGUS]

59 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

My own rework thread deals with drawing enemy aggro and the potential for self buffing, thoughts on that?

Definitely something that I've been thinking about! I was thinking about implementing such an idea in the 3rd ability, and would act off of Range and Power Strength. Whatever I do end up coming to I'll definitely credit you and MonkeyKV in it.

[MonkeyKV]

3 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

To be completely honest, I never felt it was doing too terribly against level 100's before Gladiator mods were a thing. They're just overkill... deliciously high numbered overkill.

As for what they'll do to it? I reckon they'll buff it's damage and act like it's a job well done. 

Yeah I suppose you're right it is overkill for the games content. I guess I just can't get around to have fun with it when it's so subpar compared to other melee weapons currently in the game.

Well I guess getting rid of the crit tier amping on combo and simply buffing the crit multipliers on the weapons would end with the same effect without the combo mechanic. 

3 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

My own rework thread deals with drawing enemy aggro and the potential for self buffing, thoughts on that?

Yeah I remember that I think I gave some thoughts on that already. Really interesting ideas. I liked that 1st skill idea best thought, specially if it could be casted without a Target for mobility 😁

[MonkeyKV]

6 hours ago, GLORY_TO_CHUNGUS said:

Side note, I was also thinking of making his staff work sorta like excals chromatic blade with energy color = status element and taking off the Fire status I have on it currently.

I like my fashionframe choices to not affect performance personally. I think his "uniqueness" should be the long range, and leave the elemental thingy to chroma and excals.

Best version of defy so far I think it's @DeMonkey simply because it gives utility to the skill and a cooldown on the immortality thing so it's not a complete godmode skill. The more I think about it a charge mechanic will just turn into a nidus thing where you can build enough stacks back during the invulnerable phase. Although it's more proactive then what we have now I suppose.

6 hours ago, GLORY_TO_CHUNGUS said:

AoE around Wukong that would pacify a certain amount of enemies

I think u got a typo here 😂😂

With atlas deluxe almost out and his prime next in line we should start hearing soon about Wu deluxe and the rework. Some mobility a good staff and 1 skill for team play and I'll be a happy 🐒

[GLORY_TO_CHUNGUS]

7 hours ago, MonkeyKV said:

and leave the elemental thingy to chroma and excals.

Probably best to do that, yeah.

7 hours ago, MonkeyKV said:

I think u got a typo here 😂😂

With atlas deluxe almost out and his prime next in line we should start hearing soon about Wu deluxe and the rework. Some mobility a good staff and 1 skill for team play and I'll be a happy 🐒

I'm just stuck on this ability. Since writing that comment I made some changes on my doc:

New Description and Name

##**3rd ##Ability - Martial Trickster - 75E** - Wukong knows how to play his enemy. He makes his opponents so enraged that they leave themselves exposed to lethal strikes.

New effect 

Wukong creates an AoE circle around him that makes enemies target him. (Sort of how Loki’s 1 works, but without the clone.)

[000l000]

Le 22/03/2019 à 01:06, GLORY_TO_CHUNGUS a dit :

If anyone’s wondering, the Gram Prime is still better than this.

Gram isn't affected by your frame power strength unlike exalted weapons. 😅

As far as i'm concerned i'm not a huge fan of your concept for many reasons.

1. First there are no synergies at all, all of his powers work separately. Any concept should synergize well every single power.

2. Powers are mostly buffs, so basically boring gameplay. Chroma relies mostly upon two buffs and would be less boring than your wukong, only because you can become tactical with his 4.

3. 3rd buff isn't much interesting, cast a power and get buffed overall (too many buffs by the way) is way too powerful and we've already seen this kind of powers a thousand times. If you want Wukong to be a killing machine, why not implementing a buff that would increase with each additional victim instead of a raw buff ?

4. Clones are a bad idea, Equinox already does that and IA is just terrible. It only works with Mirage since they're doing the same thing than you, wandering clones wouldn't work. It wouldn't help with tactics either since they'll do anything and never what you want or need.

5. I prefer his current 2nd, you're limited by your energy pool which is fair and i'm not much traumatized by an immortal rage build, it requires specific mods and tbh not dying is already what many frame can do - And it fits Wukong lore. Having to kill X enemies before you get one and only one life isn't working cause enemies can be killed by other players too, and with only a few enemies you won't have a single chance to get your free life token. Plus it'll make Wukong atrociously bad against (mini)bosses for example.

 

[GLORY_TO_CHUNGUS]

32 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

Gram isn't affected by your frame power strength unlike exalted weapons.

I understand, I was just stating the base stats are better!

 

32 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

First there are no synergies at all, all of his powers work separately. Any concept should synergize well every single power.

I disagree, I have a synergy section in the post laying out some potential synergy. I do agree, however, that concepts should synergize well. But yeah, I'm also working on updating my concept to add more synergy so I understand your concern!

 

32 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

Powers are mostly buffs, so basically boring gameplay. Chroma relies mostly upon two buffs and would be less boring than your wukong, only because you can become tactical with his 4.

Fair call! I've been adjusting the powers in my document to make them more interactive and was going to post another version soon. 

 

32 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

3rd buff isn't much interesting, cast a power and get buffed overall (too many buffs by the way) is way too powerful and we've already seen this kind of powers a thousand times. If you want Wukong to be a killing machine, why not implementing a buff that would increase with each additional victim instead of a raw buff ?

Same thing as I said above^. I've been stuck on this ability for a minute now lol! People have been suggesting I stick with cloudwalker, but make walking through enemies strip armor - but I feel like that's too similar to Revenant's 3. Like I said though, I've been trying to make it more interactive and what you said of "why not implementing a buff that would increase with each additional victim instead of a raw buff ?" has definitely crossed my mind. Though, I decided against that in the original concept because I already had an ability similar to it (the 2).

 

32 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

Clones are a bad idea, Equinox already does that and IA is just terrible. It only works with Mirage since they're doing the same thing than you, wandering clones wouldn't work. It wouldn't help with tactics either since they'll do anything and never what you want or need.

Purely based this ability off of the assumption DE would at least try to make the AI viable. In my opinion, Equinox's clone isn't too bad! It's a good distraction and extra dps just for simply sacrificing a mod slot - which, considering Equinox's scaling abilities, doesn't matter too much.

 

32 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

I prefer his current 2nd, you're limited by your energy pool which is fair and i'm not much traumatized by an immortal rage build, it requires specific mods and tbh not dying is already what many frame can do - And it fits Wukong lore. Having to kill X enemies before you get one and only one life isn't working cause enemies can be killed by other players too, and with only a few enemies you won't have a single chance to get your free life token. Plus it'll make Wukong atrociously bad against (mini)bosses for example

I recognized my rework's fault with this ability and I'm really trying to fix it! My current fix is to make a timer for when you first cast the ability, and each enemy killed within that timer gives you 1 life. Once the timer is up, the ability stops and you're given your base amount of lives. You can then recast to turn on energy drain and every 10 enemies killed gives you a single life. I removed the current energy drain Defy because the other abilities I created have such high energy cost. 100% agree with the mini boss thing, though, and am currently trying to find a way to balance it.

Edited March 23, 2019 by GLORY_TO_CHUNGUS
Typo

[DeMonkey]

47 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

and tbh not dying is already what many frame can do

All the more reason to change it. You are right, many other frames do not dying, but you missed out the part where they do it better. 

Each of the means or powers that provide this "not dying" state to other frames also do other things, such as providing additional damage for the frame, status immunity or CC'ing enemies. There's a reason to use the ability even at non-endurance levels because of this.

This renders Defy underpowered in the grand scheme of things.

[000l000]

Il y a 5 heures, GLORY_TO_CHUNGUS a dit :

Same thing as I said above^. I've been stuck on this ability for a minute now lol! People have been suggesting I stick with cloudwalker, but make walking through enemies strip armor - but I feel like that's too similar to Revenant's 3. Like I said though, I've been trying to make it more interactive and what you said of "why not implementing a buff that would increase with each additional victim instead of a raw buff ?" has definitely crossed my mind. Though, I decided against that in the original concept because I already had an ability similar to it (the 2).

Before thinking about powers i think you should think about Wukong lore. All frame are inspired by actual gods or at least some existing mysticism. The clone thing fits definitely then, you should only find a way to bypass WF terrible IA to make it more viable or at least fun.

Cloudwalker actually lacks of interesting synergies in current frame but this power fits well with the lore - Wukong is using clouds to fast traveling though so transforming into a slow cloud always seemed awkward - Being able to do infinite mid-air jumps while making some clouds spawning under his feets in the air could be a fun passive you're right. Wukong could even get some additional buff to his next melee attack or slam attack for each jump (think about Volt passive but with melee only).

Wukong is also some tricky fighter, he could also use his monkey tail to knock all opponents down, opening them for ground finishers, it could be a nice replacement for his current 1st.

Then you can think about synergies, using his monkey tail power could make all of his clones jump into random victimes this kind of stuff. Wukong needs to be fun !

Edited March 23, 2019 by 000l000

[000l000]

Il y a 6 heures, DeMonkey a dit :

All the more reason to change it. You are right, many other frames do not dying, but you missed out the part where they do it better. 

Each of the means or powers that provide this "not dying" state to other frames also do other things, such as providing additional damage for the frame, status immunity or CC'ing enemies. There's a reason to use the ability even at non-endurance levels because of this.

This renders Defy underpowered in the grand scheme of things.

Well Wukong is not only not dying but literally invulnerable for a few sec, which means he won't get any status anyway. Plus the way defy works makes a Rage build quite interesting, thus making him getting energy back quite easily too. I never said that skill shouldn't be changed though so i don't get your point, i just said i did prefer his old skill to OP's (kill X enemies etc.), nothing else. 🤘

Anyway Defy still doesn't have any augment, i don't think this skill will change much with Wukong rework since being immortal is definitely part of the monkey king but we could still see an interesting augment for this skill before any frame update. 

Or not...

Edited March 23, 2019 by 000l000