Larkspur and Its Place in Lore

[ant99999]

5 минут назад, Corvid сказал:

Considering that the entry starts with what is implied to be the execution of Margulis, it's possible that Ballas getting the project approved was actually his first step towards destroying the empire.

I highly doubt that. The creation of the Sentient apperaed long before Zariman was sent to Tau. Even using common sence - you will send a colonizing ship to a system only some time after the terraforming drones arrived there. Then Margulis' work on the Tenno and her execution as a consequence appeared long after that. Probably Ballas wanted to save the Empire back then, though his methods were quite cruel.

[rand0mname]

Bah. Warframe lore is intentionally written in such a vague way that almost everything is possible. Time line is a mess. Eras, unspecified "average" lifespans, body-hopping and Chehalons. A rich ground for speculation (and conspiracy theories).

Was Zariman jumping blindly and was lost because of it? Or was Zariman using Tau rail build by Sentients and still did not make it? Depending on the answer, Perintol's project could happen before or after Zariman (and many other failed attempts).

Was Margulis executed right before Perintol's hearing and Silvanna was dismissed for (how long it took for Sentients to reach Tau and send "all clear" signal back) and was recalled to work on Waframes after Ballas took over because of her previous experience?

Or was Silvanna happily working directly under Margulis on Transference (while Sentients were winning the war) until everything came crushing down then Warframes were moved to the lab next door, not-Rhino broke out and Davis had his eureka moment (or was he intentionally luring not-Rhino to Zariman kids)?

Or was Margulis fine with using "infested golems" as replacement bodies for her kids and rebelled later then she understood how Warframes were maid (or was it "well, there are here and mindless, but don't make more, blue-honey") and what Orokin had in store for Operators?

Or was it something else?

Edited March 23, 2019 by rand0mname

[Corvid]

1 hour ago, ant99999 said:

I highly doubt that. The creation of the Sentient apperaed long before Zariman was sent to Tau. Even using common sence - you will send a colonizing ship to a system only some time after the terraforming drones arrived there. Then Margulis' work on the Tenno and her execution as a consequence appeared long after that. Probably Ballas wanted to save the Empire back then, though his methods were quite cruel.

As far as I recall, we don't actually have confirmation as to when the Zariman incident happened relative to the Sentient project.

[ant99999]

23 минуты назад, Corvid сказал:

As far as I recall, we don't actually have confirmation as to when the Zariman incident happened relative to the Sentient project.

Well, this doesn't make sence to me otherwise. Why would the Orokin develop an interstellar jumpship of such colossal size if they didn't even know how to terraform a distant system.

In Vitruvian entries Ballas seems to mention the events in chronological order and he mentions Zariman children after the Sentient invasion.

But even if the other way is true, it hardly even changes anything, just Ballas' intentions. I mean he is a d*k anyway.

51 минуту назад, rand0mname сказал:

Was Margulis executed right before Perintol's hearing

But this is definitely impossible. Margulis was executed for trying to use Tenno to remotely control warframes. All her works revolve around warframes. When Perintol's thing was around the warframes weren't even in project. So Margulis' execution took place long after.

[Corvid]

43 minutes ago, ant99999 said:

Well, this doesn't make sence to me otherwise. Why would the Orokin develop an interstellar jumpship of such colossal size if they didn't even know how to terraform a distant system.

They knew how to terraform. It was the journey across interstellar space that was holding them back.

 

44 minutes ago, ant99999 said:

But this is definitely impossible. Margulis was executed for trying to use Tenno to remotely control warframes. All her works revolve around warframes. When Perintol's thing was around the warframes weren't even in project. So Margulis' execution took place long after.

Actually, none of Margulis' work revolved around Warframes. She developed transference, yes, but warframes were explicitly a bastardised version of her work.

[rand0mname]

51 минуту назад, ant99999 сказал:

But this is definitely impossible. Margulis was executed for trying to use Tenno to remotely control warframes. All her works revolve around warframes.

We know for sure that Margulis was working on Transference. Her later work revolved around helping Zariman children.  Including making them forget what exactly happened on that ship. Anything else is up to interpretation.

It is a big stretch (and I do not think it was her executed, mind you), but “I am going to use my knowledge of Infestation and genetics to make a brain-dead surrogate body for Zariman children to have a semblance of life” does not equal “I am going to use tortured mad suffering incredibly dangerous super soldiers in my own work”.

As I said, I do not think it was Margulis killed. But I will not discard it till we get a direct answer.

Edit: why every lore discussion ends up being hidjacked by Space Mom?

Edited March 23, 2019 by rand0mname

[ant99999]

24 минуты назад, Corvid сказал:

Actually, none of Margulis' work revolved around Warframes. She developed transference, yes, but warframes were explicitly a bastardised version of her work.

 

21 минуту назад, rand0mname сказал:

We know for sure that Margulis was working on Transference. Her later work revolved around helping Zariman children.  Including making them forget what exactly happened on that ship. Anything else is up to interpretation.

The main source fot my claim is the Silver Grove quest quotes by Silvana. I won't paste them here, too much text, but the main idea is that both Silvana and Margulis knew what was the purpose of their work, though not from the begining and it was rather unpleasant for them to know.

Apologies for 'Margulis was executed for trying to use Tenno to remotely control warframes.', that's incorrect indeed.

Your general idea about Warframe's timeline being rather unclear is true of course, although, I'd not consider it a flaw. But some of the general conclusions remain fairly reliable. By the way I don't even remember what started this timeline discussion and what is its connection to Larkspur.

Edit: Oh yeah, it was the question about the similarities of the Sentient and Orokin war machines, and then it suddenly jumped into what was the first, Zariman or Sentient.

Edited March 23, 2019 by ant99999

[rand0mname]

Right, Larkspur. Clan Tenno lab research. I think it is an old weapon. Probably was developed later in the war, then Sentient hacking was understood, so it was possible to avoid "exploding in your face" problem. After all, Tenno were making weapons out of Sentient bones.

I wonder if Corpus is as careful then they play with Hunhow pieces this days...

1 час назад, ant99999 сказал:

Edit: Oh yeah, it was the question about the similarities of the Sentient and Orokin war machines, and then it suddenly jumped into what was the first, Zariman or Sentient.

Apologies. But hey, thanks to that side-track a couple of hazy moments were clarified. And at least no one derailed the thread with all time favorite "... is Margulis" theory. Come to think, Larkspur is designed like a flower and those colors... Hmmm.

OMG, LARKSPUR IS MARGULIS!

 

No? I will see myself out :).

[Loza03]

6 hours ago, Corvid said:

implied to be the execution of Margulis,

Nope.

"They opened the chamber door just in time for me to see it happen; the Archimedian erupting into a flash, jade-like and blinding. I knew her. She was the greatest scholar of genetics who ever lived. Except now she was nothing but mist and gore.

A voice boomed from within, “The Crewmen project is cancelled. Send in the next.” "

Margulis wasn't related or executed for Crewmen-related stuff.

[Loza03]

Damn triple posting.

Edited March 23, 2019 by Loza03

[Loza03]

As above.

Edited March 23, 2019 by Loza03

[ant99999]

3 часа назад, rand0mname сказал:

OMG, LARKSPUR IS MARGULIS!

What a twist!

3 часа назад, rand0mname сказал:

I wonder if Corpus is as careful then they play with Hunhow pieces this days...

Spoiler - they aren't (see new corpus-sentient units from reworked Gas City). This by the way reminds me of another interesting topic to discuss - Orbs' origins and identities, but it is a whole another story.

By the way

2 часа назад, Loza03 сказал:

Damn triple posting.

I feel your pain, I just have no idea how this forums work somerimes.