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Inaros is not bad but I had some ideas


HowlingComet
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I often find myself be complained at by pubbys for using Inaros, one of my personally favorite frames. I must stay I do enjoy him even after the nerf I heard happened before I was able to get him. I love that he just gives himself armor and can regenerate health like no one's business. Sadly I do find he can be overwhelmed at times and his abilities seem a bit weak compared to others. Even one warframe basically stole his entire thing which was being alive all the time, Garuda. Now not getting this won't keep me from using my favorite frame but I do think there are a few ways he can be improved.

My first thought was giving him some way to buff status chance on weapons, maybe his armor percentage increases the status chance of his weapons and abilities. The reason I thought of this is because Rhino already buffs damage but I can't say I've seen anyone buff status chance. Another thing, maybe change his Scarab Swarm to do slash damage and procs, we already have Saryn for all the corrosive damage we could ever need or just give Inaros an Amprex. This way his Scarab Swarm would do slash procs and cause mass bleeding while also doing it's base over time damage.

Maybe change his Sandstorm to do a bit more damage or also do procs, or just play into how much Scarab Swarm he has. I sort of feel like Sandstorm was a wasted opportunity to make an interesting ability, I heard it used to be based off melee's stats and I don't mind that nerf but I feel it should be changed still.
Lastly I wanted to change something about the Sand Shadows, they don't last long usually because people don't use Devour long enough to kill or it's too short to regain all his health bar. Perhaps increase the time the Sand Shadows are active, be that based off Scarab Swarm charge or just a basic boost.

I do hope this at least is seen by those who might fix the issues I see with this frame, maybe not changes I have listed but at least small buffs to make those that would otherwise look down on Inaros think for a second that he can be more useful to the group.

PS. While not something that has to be thought about much, I always saw the Steel Meridian and Inaros as something you could write an extra story about. Considering their whole gimmick is toughing it out, the shields and steel references and all, you could maybe add in a refernce there or something.

Edited by HowlingComet
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If you're being overwhelmed as Inaros, you're doing something terribly wrong. Aside from his overall tankiness, if in the off chance you do feel like you're being overwhelmed his pocket sand has plenty of range and a wide arc. His scarab swarm is also surprisingly useful.

Sandstorm already does proc! With elemental sandstorm it can actually be quite strong. However it requires its own build, which is a touch sad, but overall it is meant to be a "displace all the enemies" ability.

The extra status chance sounds like overkill to me. He can already 1-hit just about anything in the game (despite his focus being as a tank/healer)

All in all, I'm quite happy with Inaros as he is now. His only TRULY redundant ability that I feel needs to be replaced is Devourment.

Not to derail, but might I see your build? It would let me see just where you're coming from.

Edited by The_Tiddler
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He had a nerf? 

Anyway Inaros is strong since he can go through almost anything with his 1 and a good melee.
But I do agree he may needs some tweaks in the future. Probably when he gets his prime I guess.

1: Nothing to change on base, But we need to buff his Augment to be a 100% chance if its gonna be even meme worthy, which in the current state isn't even that.
2: Following the claim on 1, his Sand shadows really need some changes as they absolutely do NOTHING. I suggest remove time limit and allow them to spawn as long as Inaros kills the target, let it be done by his 2 or not. Also give it a visual distinction from Inaros' 4
3: His most useless ability as its too costly in energy, has a small radius (half of what it says on the ability screen), miniscule dmg, very slow movement and a CC that just disperse enemies. I think it would be nice if they lower the cost and increase its radius heavily. Also emphasize its synergy among his other abilities. I think if Sandstorm has sucked in at least 1 enemy affected by his abilites(1,2,4) sandstorm will spread that effect to all enemies caught in sandstorm. A nice way to make his CC more easy to apply.
4: Nothing much, maybe lessen the delay that happens between pushing 4 and the time he actually fires it. Also, give it a visual distinction from Inaros' 2

I don't expect all of this to happen, But I don't think they'll be too OP even if it did.
But we have other frames who are more needy, and I'm glad to wait for them to get better first. Just gonna wait till Inaros Prime comes out.

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Oh, thank you for reminding me of that mod! I had completely forgot about it, and I do see what you mean now that I have looked at it. But even with that, imagine the swarm giving even more status effects. Sounds like a reason to throw it in there occasionally.
And I have two builds and I don't know how to insert images yet. Sooo.... Rejuvenation, Steamlined Form, Rage, Primed Continuity, Provoked, Steel Fiber, Steamline, Augur Reach(later to be Stretch), Gladiator Resolve, and Vitality. The other build replaces Steamline, Augur Reach, and Primed Continuity with Armored Agility, Gladiator Aegis, and Negation Swarm. Note the second is the one I use more standard and the first is for when I do sorties and higher level things.
And while yes the Scarab Swarm stuns and you can use Desiccation to kill plenty of enemies with a covert lethality dagger he still relies on his weapons almost entirely for damage and actually killing things. He has his limits on keeping a defense point up, which is where i usually test his abilities in a solo match.

And I suppose all this stems from me disliking that he relies entirely on his weapons, a bit of me hoping he'll get some way to buff his weapons a bit and status seemed most fitting.

Edited by HowlingComet
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Inaros needs no changes and is one of the single strongest warframes in the game. 

I'm an inaros main and I have never had people complain about him. Even when I took him to NMLOR. 

The only frame that can really give inaros a run for his money in terms of tanking damage is nidus, and that's with a huge DR and death gate.

His abilities are incredibly strong when used properly. They aren't meant to deal damage like saryn or equinox, they are meant to cc and heal. You might be bored if all you do is spam 1 and execute enemies, so just don't. Use 1 to get the bonus damage against enemies, 2 to lock down a dangerous target for a minute, 4 to cc a group of enemies and follow up with 3 to fling them all over creating mines of scarabs to further spread.

I wish I could show you just how powerful inaros is, because if you ever saw a full powered inaros then the last thing you would ever think is that he is weak or needs a change to be good.

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what inaros really needs in my opinion, is a new passive.

A revive passive on a frame that has aoe cc that heals, another cc that makes enemies become health stations, another aoe cc that gives damage reduction that has synergy with his second ability making his third also an healing ability, and a 4th ability that grants up to 90% damage reduction which if a small portion is consumed can also crowd control a pretty wide area and heals all frames in range of the ability, is pretty redundant

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The main problem I see is the problem that many CC frames encounter: They don't kill fast enough. Look at Vauban, Nekros, and Nyx, they can survive well, but are completely eclipsed by the titans that are Nuke Frames. Why CC when you can just annihilate everything instantly with Nova, Saryn, Equinox, and Mesa? I've sometimes sarcastically admitted that Death is the best CC, but with how things are ending up when it comes to preferred effective frames, that's how it's ending up.

Warframe has various game modes, with many about killing stuff, and many prefer the most efficient way to kill everything as quickly as possible. Naturally, there will be a bias for nuke frame, leaving tank and CC frames that fight with a slog of killing small handfuls of enemies at a time to be rather undesirable. That said, there are moments for such frames to shine, but more often than not, mass destruction of mobs all at once is a much better solution than CC-ing and tanking enemies as they wait in line to die in small amounts. This may be why you were getting dogged as an Inaros player, because he doesn't fit the bill for killing fast enough.

Metas. They can really suck for some playstyles when they're overshadowed enough to become redundant.

Edited by LostSeeker0
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On 2019-03-23 at 2:24 AM, HowlingComet said:

I often find myself be complained at by pubbys for using Inaros, one of my personally favorite frames. I must stay I do enjoy him even after the nerf I heard happened before I was able to get him. I love that he just gives himself armor and can regenerate health like no one's business. Sadly I do find he can be overwhelmed at times and his abilities seem a bit weak compared to others. Even one warframe basically stole his entire thing which was being alive all the time, Garuda. Now not getting this won't keep me from using my favorite frame but I do think there are a few ways he can be improved.

See, this is the problem: Inaros has below-average abilities because he has the most ridiculous base stats in the entire game. With literally nothing but his health and armor pool, plus the right mods and arcanes, you can go AFK in a high-level mission and still live indefinitely while being pelted by enemy fire. With a Maiming Strike Atterax, or some similarly nuke-y weapon, Inaros can thus turn himself into an immortal blender without even needing to access the immensely powerful stat steroid on his 4 (which, with the augment, makes him immune to literally everything that isn't a hard fall or ability purge). Garuda, by contrast, not only has a pretty standard health/shield pool, she also has to constantly put herself as close to 0 health as possible (so basically at 2 health with Quick Thinking) to make the most out of her kit, so she actually has some of the worst EHP in the game without her abilities. I can agree to Inaros getting improvements to the feel of some of his abilities, but seeing how he's already recognized as an incredibly solid frame already, he may not necessarily need more power, at least not without sacrifices to his stats.

With this in mind, thoughts on the suggestions:

On 2019-03-23 at 2:24 AM, HowlingComet said:

My first thought was giving him some way to buff status chance on weapons, maybe his armor percentage increases the status chance of his weapons and abilities. The reason I thought of this is because Rhino already buffs damage but I can't say I've seen anyone buff status chance.

My personal gripe against this is that it may be much fiddlier in practice than on paper: whereas damage is something that is easy to just slap onto anything, status chance is more technical, and modifying status chance can affect different weapons very differently -- if this were simply adding flat status chance, then perhaps this could be interesting as a means of applying guaranteed status through weapons in some cases, much like Harrow provides guaranteed crits, but if this were multiplicative you'd have a bonus that would vary significantly in effectiveness based on your loadout. Even with a flat status increase, this also runs the risk of some weapons going nuts on max status (i.e. with bleed damage, corrosive procs, or the like), unlike damage or crit chance increases. Perhaps this idea could work, if shaped correctly, but even then, I'm not sure why this would apply to Inaros thematically (is he really the frame one brings for status?).

On 2019-03-23 at 2:24 AM, HowlingComet said:

Another thing, maybe change his Scarab Swarm to do slash damage and procs, we already have Saryn for all the corrosive damage we could ever need or just give Inaros an Amprex. This way his Scarab Swarm would do slash procs and cause mass bleeding while also doing it's base over time damage.

This sounds pretty alright, to be honest. I'd personally quite like a Scarab Swarm that dealt more damage on its offensive hit, in addition to more healing, and would personally be prepared to sacrifice a lot of Inaros's base health or armor for this.

On 2019-03-23 at 2:24 AM, HowlingComet said:

Maybe change his Sandstorm to do a bit more damage or also do procs, or just play into how much Scarab Swarm he has. I sort of feel like Sandstorm was a wasted opportunity to make an interesting ability, I heard it used to be based off melee's stats and I don't mind that nerf but I feel it should be changed still.

As someone else has mentioned, Elemental Sandstorm technically already does this, but I agree with the feeling here. Sandstorm doesn't feel terribly useful, and overall there isn't much interaction between Inaros's abilities. If he trapped enemies within himself during the sandstorm, instead of throwing them about, he could likely get much more synergy with his other abilities, all of which apply a localized area of effect, as he could concentrate enemies in an area, carry them to wherever he'd like, then blind/trap/swarm them all.

On 2019-03-23 at 2:24 AM, HowlingComet said:

Lastly I wanted to change something about the Sand Shadows, they don't last long usually because people don't use Devour long enough to kill or it's too short to regain all his health bar. Perhaps increase the time the Sand Shadows are active, be that based off Scarab Swarm charge or just a basic boost.

I can agree with this, Sand Shadows don't last long and rarely do much. Making the Sand Shadow duration the same as the trap duration (so up to 30 seconds) could help in this regard.

On 2019-03-23 at 2:24 AM, HowlingComet said:

PS. While not something that has to be thought about much, I always saw the Steel Meridian and Inaros as something you could write an extra story about. Considering their whole gimmick is toughing it out, the shields and steel references and all, you could maybe add in a refernce there or something.

Agreed, and in general it'd be nice to have more special interpersonal interactions between certain individuals or factions and frames. It's a tremendous missed opportunity for Baro Ki'Teer to not have any interactions with Inaros, for example, seeing as how he's a central character in the quest to obtain the frame, and it'd be nice to have more than just one story per frame (though that is arguably better than no story at all, as is far too often the case still).

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2 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

Agreed, and in general it'd be nice to have more special interpersonal interactions between certain individuals or factions and frames. It's a tremendous missed opportunity for Baro Ki'Teer to not have any interactions with Inaros, for example, seeing as how he's a central character in the quest to obtain the frame, and it'd be nice to have more than just one story per frame (though that is arguably better than no story at all, as is far too often the case still). 

Well Baro does have a little interaction with Inraos, he had different voice lines and is less flippant towards you if interact with him as Inaros, just like how his lines change when you interact with him in a Prime versus the base frame.

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3 hours ago, (XB1)ALTBOULI said:

Nerf? What nerf did he have? I actually like we he is at the moment, though I wouldn't be adverse to some tweaking of abilities.

Not sure how you can get overwhelmed as Inaros though, he is an amazing tank.

His "Nerf" is not doing enough DPS for people's tastes. Inaros can tank like a god for sure, but the problem is people looking down on his subpar offensive capabilities.

Overall, it would be nice if he could utilize his health for charging a massive nuke at least, so it's a case of sacrificing tanking in exchange for the potential to begin erasing an entire room's worth of mobs. Otherwise, Inaros will continue to be the guy who does a lot of tanking, and not much else. There's a reason why you don't see them often in Sanctuary Onslaught, is cause his style of combat just doesn't cut it for Simaris' approval, before he starts yelling at you to increase your efficiency.

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9 hours ago, LostSeeker0 said:

The main problem I see is the problem that many CC frames encounter: They don't kill fast enough. Look at Vauban, Nekros, and Nyx, they can survive well, but are completely eclipsed by the titans that are Nuke Frames. Why CC when you can just annihilate everything instantly with Nova, Saryn, Equinox, and Mesa? I've sometimes sarcastically admitted that Death is the best CC, but with how things are ending up when it comes to preferred effective frames, that's how it's ending up.

Warframe has various game modes, with many about killing stuff, and many prefer the most efficient way to kill everything as quickly as possible. Naturally, there will be a bias for nuke frame, leaving tank and CC frames that fight with a slog of killing small handfuls of enemies at a time to be rather undesirable. That said, there are moments for such frames to shine, but more often than not, mass destruction of mobs all at once is a much better solution than CC-ing and tanking enemies as they wait in line to die in small amounts. This may be why you were getting dogged as an Inaros player, because he doesn't fit the bill for killing fast enough.

Metas. They can really suck for some playstyles when they're overshadowed enough to become redundant.

^^this

Vauban, nyx, and Loki were considered to be some of the strongest frames in the game. But when DE removed raids to make people fight eidolons more (don't be fooled, all the major bugs and issues in raids could have been easily addressed), then killing tons of enemies became the single most rewarding thing in the game. 

Super stealthy? You get a modest boost completing spy missions without being detected, and DE nerfed using stealth kills to get tons of exp. Can't have stealth being a good alternative to ESO.

CC a giant group of enemies? It was good in raids as they would quickly outscale if killed, but no one is rewarded by CC. You don't even get resources for it, only killing does.

Ever since raids were removed, the only thing that has ever been introduced that hasn't been a dps catered meta is exploiter orb. How many years did that take?

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I don't think Inaros ever needs a 'more dmg' ability
Yes he has to rely solely on the weapons themselves to do dmg, but instead he is one of the most tankiest frames in the game without having to use an ability.

I say his abilities should be focused on CC and spreading those.
With this in mind, As I said above, his 1,2,4 ability is just fine as it is

What he does need tweaks are his sand shadows and 3: Sandstorm.
Sandstorm really should be spreading CC or just straight up use Inaros' giant health and deal dmg based upon that.
If we go for the latter it actually fits his lore too since he made giant sandstorm that engulfed the whole planet of Mars and got rid of the Infested, but it killed him in the process.
I wouldn't mind if we actually have something more closer to that.
And I don't know what to do about Sandshadow really. Even if the spawned shadows lasted long, I doubt they would do much except make Inaros look cool.

For his Augments, his 1 & 3 are quite miserable for the time being, and I hope they fix those too. Though I guess they might be fixed if Sand shadow and Sandstorm gets better too.

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10 minutes ago, Shaburanigud said:

I don't think Inaros ever needs a 'more dmg' ability
Yes he has to rely solely on the weapons themselves to do dmg, but instead he is one of the most tankiest frames in the game without having to use an ability.

I say his abilities should be focused on CC and spreading those.
With this in mind, As I said above, his 1,2,4 ability is just fine as it is

What he does need tweaks are his sand shadows and 3: Sandstorm.
Sandstorm really should be spreading CC or just straight up use Inaros' giant health and deal dmg based upon that.
If we go for the latter it actually fits his lore too since he made giant sandstorm that engulfed the whole planet of Mars and got rid of the Infested, but it killed him in the process.
I wouldn't mind if we actually have something more closer to that.
And I don't know what to do about Sandshadow really. Even if the spawned shadows lasted long, I doubt they would do much except make Inaros look cool.

For his Augments, his 1 & 3 are quite miserable for the time being, and I hope they fix those too. Though I guess they might be fixed if Sand shadow and Sandstorm gets better too.

Not sure why you turned around on the not needing more damage ability thing, and suggested that his sandstorm eats up health to basically nuke things, which is something that could definitely make him formidable. This would fix Inaros being the "guy who doesn't die, but doesn't kill much either" problem. Props for accurate lore representation too!

And yeah, his sand shadow is very... questionable in usage, mainly it doesn't last long enough. Solution? Make the Sand Shadow have no duration, with Inaros having the ability to have one shadow around indefinitely, making it something more than a weaksauce Nekros' Shadows of the Dead. This would reward players who took the time to nom a powerful eximus, so they could take its buffs for themselves.

Edited by LostSeeker0
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5 minutes ago, LostSeeker0 said:

Not sure why you turned around on the not needing more damage ability thing, and suggested that his sandstorm eats up health to basically nuke things, which is something that could definitely make him formidable. This would fix Inaros being the "guy who doesn't die, but doesn't kill much either" problem. Props for accurate lore representation too!

By the dmg guy, I meant his ability shouldn't buff weapon dmg since his 1 basically opens up finishers.
Guess I wasn't clear enough.

Other then that, thx for the compliment : )

Edited by Shaburanigud
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I would just like to mention that these are not all entirely what I believe. I do think as of now he is not as bad a frame people make him out as but this is simply suggestions of improvements that could be given.
I like most of the other ideas people have given out in addition to the ones I have spoken of, and I appreciate the critique (especially Teridax's). I apologize for forgetting about augment mod, that is my bad. As well as the nerf, I had only heard about this from other people and have not had a reason to really look up for it myself considering I had no information on what was really done. It sounds like it never happened so I guess we can forget about it. 

I can only hope some of these make it into the game, maybe only when he's primed but hopefully at least sometime.

Edited by HowlingComet
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1 hour ago, LostSeeker0 said:

His "Nerf" is not doing enough DPS for people's tastes. Inaros can tank like a god for sure, but the problem is people looking down on his subpar offensive capabilities.

Overall, it would be nice if he could utilize his health for charging a massive nuke at least, so it's a case of sacrificing tanking in exchange for the potential to begin erasing an entire room's worth of mobs. Otherwise, Inaros will continue to be the guy who does a lot of tanking, and not much else. There's a reason why you don't see them often in Sanctuary Onslaught, is cause his style of combat just doesn't cut it for Simaris' approval, before he starts yelling at you to increase your efficiency.

Not doing enough DPS? He's a tank frame, not all frames have to be DPS based.

And in terms of DPS, his 1 leaves most enemies open to finishers and his 2 and 3 can be combined to a lot damage.

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3 minutes ago, (XB1)ALTBOULI said:

Not doing enough DPS? He's a tank frame, not all frames have to be DPS based.

And in terms of DPS, his 1 leaves most enemies open to finishers and his 2 and 3 can be combined to a lot damage.

I'm afraid you have missed my point. I will concede to him being a tank, but unfortunately for many tasks, being a tank is completely irrelevant when better results are gotten with being able to erase every enemy in the immediate vicinity in the snap of a finger. This is why Inaros has fallen out of favor, since Inaros just can't quite be snappy when it comes to killing mass amounts of mobs.

The meta has gotten bad enough where being a tank that can't fork out the damage and kill en masse is undesirable for most content. Inaros still does have uses, but they are niche ones, and jobs where everything needs to die-end-of-story are places where Inaros is undesired.

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10 minutes ago, LostSeeker0 said:

I'm afraid you have missed my point. I will concede to him being a tank, but unfortunately for many tasks, being a tank is completely irrelevant when better results are gotten with being able to erase every enemy in the immediate vicinity in the snap of a finger. This is why Inaros has fallen out of favor, since Inaros just can't quite be snappy when it comes to killing mass amounts of mobs.

The meta has gotten bad enough where being a tank that can't fork out the damage and kill en masse is undesirable for most content. Inaros still does have uses, but they are niche ones, and jobs where everything needs to die-end-of-story are places where Inaros is undesired.

No I didn't miss your point only a few frames have the ability to wipe out a wide area of enemies in seconds and if it was simply about DPS people would be only playing those frames. 

Inaros is a tank frame who also offers some element of CC and support (healing). He is a great all-round frame but excels in survivability. You can argue that killing things eliminates the need to be simply survive, but Plains,Fortuna and some sortie missions make life a lot more difficult to nuke whole areas.

Worst case scenario is the use of powerful weapons to negate any potential deficiencies in Inaros' power

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That I can definitely agree on. Which, the OP said he was being criticized for bringing Inaros into several missions. Gonna have to say to that is... Having Inaros as a favorite will cause friction when bringing him into content where he underperforms, so I would agree on bringing him into areas where nukes just aren't feasible.

Hate to say it HowlingComet, but you're may have to shelve Inaros for those niche uses.

Edited by LostSeeker0
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7 minutes ago, LostSeeker0 said:

That I can definitely agree on. Which, the OP said he was being criticized for bringing Inaros into several missions. Gonna have to say to that is... Having Inaros as a favorite will cause friction when bringing him into content where he underperforms, so I would agree on bringing him into areas where nukes just aren't feasible.

Hate to say it HowlingComet, but you're may have to shelve Inaros for those niche uses.

I think the beauty of Inaros at least for me when I first started playing (and didn't have the best mods and weapons) was that I was able to contribute and feel like I was helping the team rather than just being carried.

For new players he is a great frame, offering great output for little investment.

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4 hours ago, AzureTerra said:

People are stupid, ignore them and enjoy your favorite frame.

I think we can all agree here, we're not saying Inaros is terrible or anything. If rated he is still an Class A warframe.
Everyone here is just suggesting ideas that could improve him in the future when he does get his turn.

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Exactly! He's just a tad inflexible sadly when it comes to DPS races. If he had that option, to burn his own health for massive AOE damage spikes, then he'd have real DPS potential in exchange for sacrificing tankiness on the fly.

Perhaps give Inaros's Sandstorm a feature like Revenant's Danse Macabre, where holding the left mouse will cause him to burn his HP to crank the damage of Sandstorm significantly?

Edited by LostSeeker0
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6 hours ago, Shaburanigud said:

I think we can all agree here, we're not saying Inaros is terrible or anything. If rated he is still an Class A warframe.
Everyone here is just suggesting ideas that could improve him in the future when he does get his turn.

I'd increase the rate at which you eat a target as you can stand there for a long time for very little to show for it.

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