What can we learn about shields from Hildryn?

[Xzorn]

1 hour ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Your idea is an interesting one, but I still do not personally like the idea of simply applying some form of damage reduction to shields. Even your method sounds completely boring to me. I want to see shields preventing us from taking health damage in a way that differentiates it from armor. A regenerating "second health bar" that prevents all damage from being done to your regular health is a good foundation - we just need to make it work.

 

I don't think there's any alternative at this point without Damage 3.0.

The eHP gap is simply too large to do anything with Shields unless they add mitigation. it doesn't really matter how fast we can recover shields because in the end the pool value is the more important part of taking damage. Recovery is important too but you can regen 10k Shields every second and still die pretty easily and frames that have 100-200k eHP? There's just nothing that works by comparison. Added to that you have to improve shields while not making the beefcakes even bigger cuz Shields do work great for some frames. Better than Health against Corpus / Void.

[Cibyllae]

On 2019-03-24 at 1:33 PM, DrBorris said:

I mean, but like, don't give the mechanic to Corpus? Why shouldn't I answer with the basic common-sense response?

Shield is a health type, all objects that use the Shield health type dip into the same code. The corpus shields function exactly the same way as tennno shields, because behind the scenes they are using the same code. It's like if you and I were pointing to the same object, if we were both pointing at a red square and you said, "now change it so that the square gives me damage reduction." Because I am also pointing at the square I also get damage reduction, any changes that benefit you, benefit me. In your head it may be a simple change but code wise it's not as straight as a path. You're proposing a whole new health type, a whole new class object that DE would have to test and make sure all other class objects interact with properly. This includes guns, abilities, damage types, etc, etc, etc. That's why you can't just say, "Don't give it to corpus."

Edited March 30, 2019 by Cibyllae

[DrBorris]

18 minutes ago, Cibyllae said:

Shield is a health type, all objects that use the Shield health type dip into the same code. The corpus shields function exactly the same way as tennno shields, because behind the scenes they are using the same code. It's like if you and I were pointing to the same object, if we were both pointing at a red square and you said, "now change it so that the square gives me damage reduction." Because I am also pointing at the square I also get damage reduction, any changes that benefit you, benefit me. In your head it may be a simple change but code wise it's not as straight as a path. You're proposing a whole new health type, a whole new class object that DE would have to test and make sure all other class objects interact with properly. This includes guns, abilities, damage types, etc, etc, etc. That's why you can't just say, "Don't give it to corpus."

DE can make a multi-stage boss fight separated by a seamless loading screen with a unique mechanic to open damage phases...

...But making enemy and player shields independent is too hard.

 

I mean, sure, that DR thing I suggested has its own issues and very well may not be the best solution. But if you want discuss that, then let's discuss what is actually wrong with the concept and not pull stuff out of our rears.

[Cibyllae]

2 hours ago, DrBorris said:

I mean, sure, that DR thing I suggested has its own issues and very well may not be the best solution. But if you want discuss that, then let's discuss what is actually wrong with the concept and not pull stuff out of our rears.

You're misunderstanding of code led you to believe an incorrect answer. Your lack of acceptance of that fact doesn't mean I'm pulling stuff out of my ass. I responded to what I wanted to have a conversation about, I didn't want to discuss your idea to make shields more durable. I wanted to address the impossibility of implementing your idea for only tenno shields. And I want to make it clear that it is an impossibility. Without creating a whole new health type, every benefit we get out of buffing shields, so do our enemies. That's not pulling stuff out of my ass, that's just a fact.

[Teridax68]

On 2019-03-30 at 12:03 PM, DrakeWurrum said:

Well isn't that the point of their experiment with Hildryn? We should find a way to revamp shields so that they work, and that's part of why I'm asking what I am.

So far, most of what I get in response is about how painful it is for slash and toxin damage to go through shields, especially the status effects. I think that's the most obvious change that needs to be made to make shields matter again.

I mean, if shields get revamped to block Toxin damage and Slash procs, what makes them meaningfully different from health? In the end, what is it that shields are meant to bring to the game that health can't or shouldn't? Because we're at a stage where healing is so plentiful that we may as well have regenerating health (and it would likely work better for newer players), and on top of that health + armor beats shields every time with the way the game currently scales its difficulty. If we're going to keep shields, what gameplay do we want them to have that differentiates them from warframes who rely mostly or exclusively on health?

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

i think what we can take from hildryn's passive is her excess damage mitigation ability 

and i quote "When her Overshield pool is depleted, any excess damage from the last hit are negated, preventing damage from leaking into the Shield pool. This also occurs when her Shield pool is depleted, preventing any excess damage from leaking into her Health pool." 

this makes it a good tool to prevent enemies from one shotting you immediately,while at the same time stays balanced and reasonable, also this passive can work with all warframes whi have shields, even warframes like valkyr

 

like imagine an enemy that deals 1300 damage, and you have a warframe with 300 shields and 300 health with no armor, shields are going to only take the 300 damage from the hit and absorb the rest 1000 damage, saving the warframe, but not forever 

Edited March 31, 2019 by (PS4)theHOPPER243

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

16 minutes ago, (PS4)theHOPPER243 said:

i think what we can take from hildryn's passive is her excess damage mitigation ability 

and i quote "When her Overshield pool is depleted, any excess damage from the last hit are negated, preventing damage from leaking into the Shield pool. This also occurs when her Shield pool is depleted, preventing any excess damage from leaking into her Health pool." 

this makes it a good tool to prevent enemies from one shotting you immediately,while at the same time stays balanced and reasonable, also this passive can work with all warframes whi have shields, even warframes like valkyr

 

like imagine an enemy that deals 1300 damage, and you have a warframe with 300 shields and 300 health with no armor, shields are going to only take the 300 damage from the hit and absorb the rest 1000 damage, saving the warframe, but not forever 

and again this ability works with high or low shields, it doesn't matter as long as the excess damage that's going to touch health is neglected, what i mean is that shields can act be more useful now no matter the amount, just like armor is useful no matter the health pool