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(XB1)XGN DrFeelGood

Bots for Conclave

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If there were bots added, then there can be confirmed games happening, even if it is halfway through a match and players decide to search in that game mode as well. This helps people to play Conclave at any time, get standing, completely challenges, and experience the mode with different load outs. LFGs can be made; but this does help when people aren’t always enough on for certain modes.

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I upvote this... also an option for bot-only games would be welcome.
I hate bunny-hopping players oneshotting with Daikyu... ruined the mode for me.

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1 hour ago, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:

If there were bots added, then there can be confirmed games happening, even if it is halfway through a match and players decide to search in that game mode as well. This helps people to play Conclave at any time, get standing, completely challenges, and experience the mode with different load outs. LFGs can be made; but this does help when people aren’t always enough on for certain modes.

To be fair, i think that the biggest roadblock for this is coding an AI smart enough to provide a challenge on any map without becoming a bullet sponge that can insta kill player even with the weakest weapon available. Odd enough, coding such AI would probably open the gates for warframe to finally get actual balance since it could finally stop relying on a borked escalation system.

1 hour ago, DarkRuler2500 said:

I upvote this... also an option for bot-only games would be welcome.

Something like that would be treated like private lobbies since otherwise it's just Rathuum using conclave loadouts against specters, and to be honest, i'd like something like that to test the feel of weapons and see the damage these deal on different frames with different IPS conversion mods without the need to invite someone else for such tests.

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yeah but then you're just turning conclave into more pve. which defeats the point of conclave.

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What we need is session of Orb Vallis / PoE that is 4 vs 4 vs AI. Let just sprinkle some PVP here and there. Railjack? PVP space fight. 

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vor 9 Stunden schrieb HC217:

yeah but then you're just turning conclave into more pve. which defeats the point of conclave.

Bot-conclave that can be played at any time is still better than dead conclave cuz no one is active.

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4 hours ago, DarkRuler2500 said:

Bot-conclave that can be played at any time is still better than dead conclave cuz no one is active.

not saying conclave isn't dead and needs something to draw people in, but the proposed solution here just makes it a boring grind against bots with gimped gear. it creates an incentive to farm bots for standing instead of other players. unless you lower/remove stnding gain from bots, which also defeats the point unless it's a practice mode. can't see de devoting much more dev time to bandaid things like this and would rather they made a good reason to play pvp so it's true to the name. maybe a pvp event, some kind of leaderboard, more exclusive mods/skins, idk. but bots simply defeat the point of conclave, so putting them into pubs is gonna be a no from me, dawg

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10 hours ago, HC217 said:

not saying conclave isn't dead and needs something to draw people in, but the proposed solution here just makes it a boring grind against bots with gimped gear. it creates an incentive to farm bots for standing instead of other players. unless you lower/remove stnding gain from bots, which also defeats the point unless it's a practice mode. can't see de devoting much more dev time to bandaid things like this and would rather they made a good reason to play pvp so it's true to the name. maybe a pvp event, some kind of leaderboard, more exclusive mods/skins, idk. but bots simply defeat the point of conclave, so putting them into pubs is gonna be a no from me, dawg

We have not had a p v p event in a long time. Having bots to fill in til people join is still better than nothing in that area.

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1 hour ago, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:

We have not had a p v p event in a long time. Having bots to fill in til people join is still better than nothing in that area.

no, seriously. if the choices were nothing added and bots, i'd say nothing. because at least then conclave won't turn into a host migration nightmare where there's that 1 guy that wants to force all bots so he can grind standing. leave it be or add something that brings players in. but not bots.

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On 2019-03-25 at 1:27 PM, HC217 said:

unless you lower/remove stnding gain from bots, which also defeats the point unless it's a practice mode.

Lower standing gain (or no standing gain) is ideal, at least so long as the vague idea that "standing = skill" continues. And while that might defeat OP's point of giving an easier way to farm standing, the effects bots can have shouldn't be understated. For one, when the game doesn't and practically can't have good matchmaking right now, giving new players even sub-par AI with nerfed equipment to beat on can be a godsend to break the monotony of losing. Two, it helps negate the "Conclave is dead" feeling as, for example, one doesn't have to run around a map for five years to find the one other player in a map built for 8 or 12 people. Even if it's a literal placebo, it's better than having new players loading into Conclave and (among other problems like having just a sword) A: loading into a waiting screen, B: loading into a match to get demolished with little to no headway, and/or C :  loading into a match and being unable to find the other player for a solid two minutes.

New rewards and leaderboards and the like are great for the elite players already in Conclave but they're not going to negate the first impressions of new players.

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I would say no unless you're considering Gambit where player teams are slugging it out against waves of Ai to drop bosses on the other team...YET...

 

...I don't play Warframe conclave, but I did play Strike Vector EX and they used bots to supplement the roster...All you had happening was players ganging up on the bots..Killing the one player who sided with the bots or bailed if two or more switched sides...

PVE players like (me) will farm the cosmetics and ruin conclave for you...Better to add Non Combat PVP and allow PVE players to pace themselves in conclave, build up mods and some from their numbers will try harder waters...While player interest and participation will hopefully bring new modes to Conclave so both schools of thought between direct and non-direct PVP can benefit..

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On 2019-03-30 at 11:32 AM, (PS4)FriendSharkey said:

I would say no unless you're considering Gambit where player teams are slugging it out against waves of Ai to drop bosses on the other team...YET...

 

...I don't play Warframe conclave, but I did play Strike Vector EX and they used bots to supplement the roster...All you had happening was players ganging up on the bots..Killing the one player who sided with the bots or bailed if two or more switched sides...

PVE players like (me) will farm the cosmetics and ruin conclave for you...Better to add Non Combat PVP and allow PVE players to pace themselves in conclave, build up mods and some from their numbers will try harder waters...While player interest and participation will hopefully bring new modes to Conclave so both schools of thought between direct and non-direct PVP can benefit..

Either way a auto fill for casual conclave, and a custom lobby on the other hand will address those. As for the host migration if the server connections are managed, then matches won't log out when the host leaves.

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Sounds like an awful idea. If bots are too smart they will kill you most of the time, before you even see them (AI usually shoots you before you notice them in active battle in PVE), if they are too stupid, they will be a dead weight, that opposing team can farm for score. Getting it just right is the kind of challenge that developers (of games in general) have been struggling for ages..

 

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On 2019-04-03 at 3:04 PM, Jitsuryoku said:

Sounds like an awful idea. If bots are too smart they will kill you most of the time, before you even see them (AI usually shoots you before you notice them in active battle in PVE), if they are too stupid, they will be a dead weight, that opposing team can farm for score. Getting it just right is the kind of challenge that developers (of games in general) have been struggling for ages..

 

The effort to improve conclave is better than another “nerf that playable character / weapon” post.

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10 hours ago, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:

The effort to improve conclave is better than another “nerf that playable character / weapon” post.

Better than bad doesn't make it good.

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Fix conclave: A step by step guide.
 

  1. Equalise all warframe stats, or divide warframe into equalised 'groups' (Heavy, Caster, Stealth etc)
  2. Remove warframe abilities entirely. Replace with smaller selection of universally applicable 'void' powers
  3. Base many of the new powers off existing powers, with desired effects included and undesired effects excluded
  4. Remove all weapons entirely. Replace with a small selection of tenno-made weapons that cover the various weapon types well. Make all weapons available to all players, regardless of ownership (loaner weapons for public use, if you will)
  5. Apply these changes to dueling rooms in the dojo. Add standing rewards for dueling and obstacle courses (somehow), with requirements set in to determine actual contribution (to prevent AFK shenanigans)
  6. Add larger dueling room options for dojo (2v2, 4v4 perhaps). Add in Lunaro course to dojos too, with infrastructure to invite clan/alliance members to the match easily
  7. Increase overall standing gain, and make standing equal between victory or loss (if it isn't already, I can't recall). Grant something else as victory bonuses, like Synthetic Eidolon shards, mods/resources, or short-term drop boosters
  8. Add nodes to star chart for certain 'special' conclave arenas, allowing players to more fluidly peruse active games in between PvE content
  9. Add alternate game modes that are competitions, rather than direct combat (like Lunaro). Examples could include a rapid-scaling survival of two opposing teams, races, obstacle courses, stealth races/assassinations etc
  10. Add a lobby queue for general conclave categories, rather than just for the specific game modes. Still allow specific selections, but the general queue would allocate players into any match of a relevant mode (Such as a Combat category containing Annihilation and Team Annihilation, or a Team category containing Lunaro and Cephalon Capture etc)
  11. Add 'modifiers' to missions, possibly based on total player vote or instigated by the first hosting player. Modifiers could include low gravity, reduced/increased ammo, hazy fog, radiation bubbles etc.

I'd like to enjoy conclave, but with hundreds of weapons and dozens of warframes, there's simply too much to balance to avoid the metas and pseudo-exploits. Our weapons and frames are simply not designed for PvP at their core, and as such PvP needs to become a game of pure skill, not metas and stats. Players unused to the conclave often find the experience jarring and unsatisfying, as their abilities don't work the way they normally do, and their weapons perform entirely differently.

Adding more ways to join in PvP, like the dojo rooms, would make players show more overall interest by messing around in their spare time. Making standing gain fair would encourage participation in people who don't otherwise like PvP, and the desire to win will creep in naturally.

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59 minutes ago, Xarteros said:

Fix conclave: A step by step guide.
 

  1. Equalise all warframe stats, or divide warframe into equalised 'groups' (Heavy, Caster, Stealth etc)
  2. Remove warframe abilities entirely. Replace with smaller selection of universally applicable 'void' powers
  3. Base many of the new powers off existing powers, with desired effects included and undesired effects excluded
  4. Remove all weapons entirely. Replace with a small selection of tenno-made weapons that cover the various weapon types well. Make all weapons available to all players, regardless of ownership (loaner weapons for public use, if you will)
  5. Apply these changes to dueling rooms in the dojo. Add standing rewards for dueling and obstacle courses (somehow), with requirements set in to determine actual contribution (to prevent AFK shenanigans)
  6. Add larger dueling room options for dojo (2v2, 4v4 perhaps). Add in Lunaro course to dojos too, with infrastructure to invite clan/alliance members to the match easily
  7. Increase overall standing gain, and make standing equal between victory or loss (if it isn't already, I can't recall). Grant something else as victory bonuses, like Synthetic Eidolon shards, mods/resources, or short-term drop boosters
  8. Add nodes to star chart for certain 'special' conclave arenas, allowing players to more fluidly peruse active games in between PvE content
  9. Add alternate game modes that are competitions, rather than direct combat (like Lunaro). Examples could include a rapid-scaling survival of two opposing teams, races, obstacle courses, stealth races/assassinations etc
  10. Add a lobby queue for general conclave categories, rather than just for the specific game modes. Still allow specific selections, but the general queue would allocate players into any match of a relevant mode (Such as a Combat category containing Annihilation and Team Annihilation, or a Team category containing Lunaro and Cephalon Capture etc)
  11. Add 'modifiers' to missions, possibly based on total player vote or instigated by the first hosting player. Modifiers could include low gravity, reduced/increased ammo, hazy fog, radiation bubbles etc.

I'd like to enjoy conclave, but with hundreds of weapons and dozens of warframes, there's simply too much to balance to avoid the metas and pseudo-exploits. Our weapons and frames are simply not designed for PvP at their core, and as such PvP needs to become a game of pure skill, not metas and stats. Players unused to the conclave often find the experience jarring and unsatisfying, as their abilities don't work the way they normally do, and their weapons perform entirely differently.

Adding more ways to join in PvP, like the dojo rooms, would make players show more overall interest by messing around in their spare time. Making standing gain fair would encourage participation in people who don't otherwise like PvP, and the desire to win will creep in naturally.

you should have been around long enough to know most of these ideas have been tried, and failed.

1. they did that already, equalized every frame and started balancing parkour/sprint/eHP. you'd know that if you played it, so idk what you're on.

2-3. then what's the point of bringing any particular frame? you're making conclave an entirely separate game mode, complete with mechanics. why? this sounds like you'd rather have corpus vs grineer.

4. they did that already too, started with a small pool of weapons and balanced them in batches. see above for why removing them for a smaller pool is bad

5+6. no. then pve players who only want the standing would force clan standing grinds where a newbie got in to lose. in dojo. no, man. just no. invite from conclave.

7. do you even know what conclave rewards are? i'd agree with you here if you did, but the options you gave say otherwise, so

8. they did this. in pvp 1.0. you should know this. they moved away from it because empty lobbies.

9. they already said they're adding races, but yeah. conclave needs more gamemodes. that said, i'd rather they made pve better, or started pvp events. because empty lobbies.

10. not sure what the point of a general queue is. if i want to play cephalon caps, but get queued for annihilation, i'm dodging. so i'd guess others would too. leading to fake lobbies and host migrate nightmares.

11. they did this too. they didn't go nightmare modifiers like this, but yeah. for a while they had game modes like opticor only.

 

there's a dedicated pvp team for balance and other issues. if you think there's an issue of balance, maybe you should point out weapons (after testing them in conclave) that are issues. instead of giving a blanket statement like "too many weapons and frames. get rid of em"... wait what?

1 hour ago, Xarteros said:

Players unused to the conclave often find the experience jarring and unsatisfying, as their abilities don't work the way they normally do, and their weapons perform entirely differently.

you just proposed this. you just asked de to make entirely new frames and weapons, specific to conclave. why. why would you do this. there are a few abilities that are changed, but they're easily checked over in the conclave arsenal.

 

you sound a lot like some guy that spent 1 day in conclave, thought it was crap (because you kept dying), and never touched it again. go play it again rather than propose radical changes like this.

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3 hours ago, HC217 said:

you should have been around long enough to know most of these ideas have been tried, and failed.

1. they did that already, equalized every frame and started balancing parkour/sprint/eHP. you'd know that if you played it, so idk what you're on.

2-3. then what's the point of bringing any particular frame? you're making conclave an entirely separate game mode, complete with mechanics. why? this sounds like you'd rather have corpus vs grineer.

4. they did that already too, started with a small pool of weapons and balanced them in batches. see above for why removing them for a smaller pool is bad

5+6. no. then pve players who only want the standing would force clan standing grinds where a newbie got in to lose. in dojo. no, man. just no. invite from conclave.

7. do you even know what conclave rewards are? i'd agree with you here if you did, but the options you gave say otherwise, so

8. they did this. in pvp 1.0. you should know this. they moved away from it because empty lobbies.

9. they already said they're adding races, but yeah. conclave needs more gamemodes. that said, i'd rather they made pve better, or started pvp events. because empty lobbies.

10. not sure what the point of a general queue is. if i want to play cephalon caps, but get queued for annihilation, i'm dodging. so i'd guess others would too. leading to fake lobbies and host migrate nightmares.

11. they did this too. they didn't go nightmare modifiers like this, but yeah. for a while they had game modes like opticor only.

 

there's a dedicated pvp team for balance and other issues. if you think there's an issue of balance, maybe you should point out weapons (after testing them in conclave) that are issues. instead of giving a blanket statement like "too many weapons and frames. get rid of em"... wait what?

you just proposed this. you just asked de to make entirely new frames and weapons, specific to conclave. why. why would you do this. there are a few abilities that are changed, but they're easily checked over in the conclave arsenal.

 

you sound a lot like some guy that spent 1 day in conclave, thought it was crap (because you kept dying), and never touched it again. go play it again rather than propose radical changes like this.

This would be ironed out more if Conclave had more more to it such as bots to auto fill; so people aren’t always going to be the dust mag and Daykui veterans. It’s like a dead Call of Duty that has it’s pvp servers occupied by people with juggernaut and max damage sinipers.

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Bots could work, not sure if they'd work in public matches unless it's just to fill a couple of spaces. The basework is already there, Silver grove specters, Junction specters can bullet jump, use powers, have a variety of loadouts etc. While other Warframe AI like both versions of the Stalker can roll around, use powers, switch weapons depending on the situation (regular stalker will pull out despair and rush you down if you got too close etc.) It's really just a matter of making them roll more/bullet jump while attacking players and making sure they aren't total aimbots (they're just AI so of course there will be a bit of aimbotting regardless). It'd make for a nice practice mode to ease players into conclave. Recruit conditioning is a total failure in that regard.

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1 hour ago, Okami_Shiranui said:

Bots could work, not sure if they'd work in public matches unless it's just to fill a couple of spaces. The basework is already there, Silver grove specters, Junction specters can bullet jump, use powers, have a variety of loadouts etc. While other Warframe AI like both versions of the Stalker can roll around, use powers, switch weapons depending on the situation (regular stalker will pull out despair and rush you down if you got too close etc.) It's really just a matter of making them roll more/bullet jump while attacking players and making sure they aren't total aimbots (they're just AI so of course there will be a bit of aimbotting regardless). It'd make for a nice practice mode to ease players into conclave. Recruit conditioning is a total failure in that regard.

 

        What if it took the Brokers AI from The Index and used them on Specters but keep some of the Specters AI functions. Since the AI is a little bit different for Specters as they act as if they have Aim bot and can do a full 180 and kill something.
 

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On 2019-03-25 at 6:52 AM, Stormdragon said:

To be fair, i think that the biggest roadblock for this is coding an AI smart enough to provide a challenge on any map without becoming a bullet sponge that can insta kill player even with the weakest weapon available. Odd enough, coding such AI would probably open the gates for warframe to finally get actual balance since it could finally stop relying on a borked escalation system.

Something like that would be treated like private lobbies since otherwise it's just Rathuum using conclave loadouts against specters, and to be honest, i'd like something like that to test the feel of weapons and see the damage these deal on different frames with different IPS conversion mods without the need to invite someone else for such tests.

I'd voluntair for movement pattern defaults 😛 

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