There's too many Excalibur skins

[Nukesnipe]

I get it, Excalibur is the mascot, everyone has Excalibur.  It's just... there's so many skins for him!  There's eight TennoGen skins for him, three TennoGen helmets with no associated skin, 3 non-TennoGen skins, 3 non-TennoGen helmets, Umbra's Sunder helmet, one XB1 exclusive, two PS4 exclusive, a Twitch exclusive and a Steam exclusive.

Seriously, does there need to be this many?  No other Warframe has this many cosmetics.  He doesn't need more.

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

Is this in reference to the Dex Excalibur skin alert? Cuz that was new last year for the anniversary.

[(PSN)Mordecai_Vrykul]

You said everyone has Excalibur so it would make sense to make designs for him since everyone has that warframe.

If i was a designer and could make money off of tennogen i would first design for Excalibur since he is the potential cash cow. 

But I get your frustration though, as a Titania main, there are only 3 skins and 2 alt helms for her.

[Nukesnipe]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Skippy575 said:

Is this in reference to the Dex Excalibur skin alert? Cuz that was new last year for the anniversary.

No, I was going through my workshop feed and hit three Excalibur skins in a row.  The anniversary is coincidence.

1 hour ago, (PS4)Mordecai_Vrykul said:

You said everyone has Excalibur so it would make sense to make designs for him since everyone has that warframe.

If i was a designer and could make money off of tennogen i would first design for Excalibur since he is the potential cash cow. 

But I get your frustration though, as a Titania main, there are only 3 skins and 2 alt helms for her.

I understand that, but the counterargument is that it's a saturated market.  If you throw another Excalibur onto the pile, what makes it stand out from all the others?  Most people will already have a skin or helmet they already like, and won't feel obligated to buy a new one, I'd imagine.

And if you design for, say, Titania, you get a market that isn't so oversaturated, and people aren't so spoiled for choice.

[(PSN)Mordecai_Vrykul]

Well my guess is by having more excalibur skins you have more ways to make it look (possibly) different and stand out more. 

I think by making new skins for excalibur it may make the character feel "fresh" for long time players. I have a few skins for mine but i mainly use the proto skin for him. One issue i do have is not being able to turn off the details, like how you have a choice to turn on/off Prime details, on Umbra excalibur. So basically no matter the skin you always have the scarf, which should be optional (imo).

I am honestly surprised DE doesn't have a few people staffed just to come up with new skins, they seem to mainly rely on tennogen and that only comes out every month or two. 

 

[rapt0rman]

In the end you can't tell people what to make tennogen for, if they want to make Excal skins they will, and it's not like DE is accepting them in place of skins for other frames,¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[uiop2000]

Tennogen are fan-made skins, technically DE only made 4 skins (6 if you count console specific skins and Umbra) for Excal. The rest are all fan-made. Excalibur having loads of skins isen't a problem though. The actual problem here is "Non-Excalibur Warframes don't have enough skins.".

[Scruffel]

I don't really see much of a problem of Excalibur having a ton of skins, especially when it's TennoGen since those are just community made. And of course, DE is not going to exclude someone's skin from getting in-game just because they made it for a specific Warframe (unless it had a look that completely deters away from the theme of the original).

3 hours ago, (PS4)Mordecai_Vrykul said:

I am honestly surprised DE doesn't have a few people staffed just to come up with new skins, they seem to mainly rely on tennogen and that only comes out every month or two. 

They aren't really relying on TennoGen to make new skins for them, it's just a way for them to accept community designs and ideas into the game. There's nothing wrong with that, especially when those artists can gain financial benefits from it. Plus, they clearly still make Deluxe skins so there's that.

[Max_AKC]

Well, it seems whenever someone is working on a series of skins they start with Excalibur and make skins for many of the old frames. I don't get that but whatever

But in general, time spent making skins is a better use of one's time than trying to guide or control another person's creative output. Just make skins for other frames imo

 

[Mados.sys]

I totally understand you and i just feel like there's that many official designs for Excalibur just because of favoritism, like seriously, just because Excalibur is the poster boy, DE gives him everything, not only skins but he had a lot of stuff that other warframes deserved a long time ago. (cof cof chromatic blade is broken and literally he had melee 3,0 before we could)

The normal design, Prime, Umbra, Dex, Xbox, Ps4, Prisma, Steam, Twitch, Proto, like come on DE chill out and give Volt or Mag something, Excalibur isn't the only Warframe existing and some players just doesn't like him, i personally find Excalibur disgusting for many, many reasons (including that i find Excalibur on literally every match, it becomes seriously annoying and boring to a point i don't even want to use him anymore) and i prefer one million times to go with Mag or Volt if i want to go "classic mode", but they are so obscure on DE's eyes that guess what, extra skins for them never EVER.

Proto Volt looks like Pepsiman and Mag is... weird... still no Dex skin for them.

"Oh stop being a crybaby and buy something from tennogen" in case someone wants to answer with that, Tennogen is a bit expensive and i don't like to throw money just like that for a skin that only one warframe can use, same problem that had Mesa Prime on her prime access, a helment that only she could use.

I'm still waiting for DE to finally notice that there are 3 starters and not just 1, to finally give Volt and Mag some love and a sort of unique skin, dex skin, prisma, consoles, steam skin or whatever instead of focusing everything on Excalibur.

[Aldisun]

Vote that you are not interested in them and move on.

[--H--Highperius]

I think it's less of a popularity issue than it is a technical one. Excalibur, having one of the most or is the most basic in term of design mapping, makes it much easier for relatively newer design artists to pick up and design a skin for him than say Inaros. An introductory trial if you will. I don't think many people would jump straight to more difficult frames (that take more time to map out a design) unless they have a solid idea on how to tackle it first. 

[Alaeacus]

On 2019-03-27 at 1:07 PM, Nukesnipe said:

I get it, Excalibur is the mascot, everyone has Excalibur.  It's just... there's so many skins for him!  There's eight TennoGen skins for him, three TennoGen helmets with no associated skin, 3 non-TennoGen skins, 3 non-TennoGen helmets, Umbra's Sunder helmet, one XB1 exclusive, two PS4 exclusive, a Twitch exclusive and a Steam exclusive.

Seriously, does there need to be this many?  No other Warframe has this many cosmetics.  He doesn't need more.

OP.  You are 100% free to create non-Excalibur skins for the community yourself.  As Tennogen are fan-made skins, DE can only review and approve/decline what is made.  Would you rather they skip a Tennogen round, giving us nothing, if fans only made new Excalibur skins?  

Releasing Excalibur skins isn't hurting you in any way.  

Edited April 16, 2019 by Alaeacus

[Nukesnipe]

1 hour ago, Alaeacus said:

OP.  You are 100% free to create non-Excalibur skins for the community yourself.  As Tennogen are fan-made skins, DE can only review and approve/decline what is made.  Would you rather they skip a Tennogen round, giving us nothing, if fans only made new Excalibur skins?  

Releasing Excalibur skins isn't hurting you in any way.  

Ah yes, the "if it doesn't affect you then shut up" argument.  Yes, I would rather have a tennogen with nothing (or only weapon skins, there's a LOT of good ones on there) if the alternative was a bunch more Excalibur skins.  And DE can absolutely choose to look at the other dozens and dozens of non-Excalibur skins or syandanas that get submitted, they (and the community, since it's partially fueled by votes on the workshop) just choose to vote for more and more and more Excalibur skins, when most are almost identical.

Seriously, Dexcalibur is the best Excalibur skin, hands down.  Even Umbra's default skin looks better than some of them.

[Alaeacus]

19 minutes ago, Nukesnipe said:

just choose to vote for more and more and more Excalibur skins, when most are almost identical.

I'm glad you recognize that the community is almost 100% in control of what is popular, and our community clearly does not agree with your opinion.  As long as the community keeps creating and voting for Excalibur skins, we will get Excalibur skins, whether you personally like it or not.  

19 minutes ago, Nukesnipe said:

Ah yes, the "if it doesn't affect you then shut up" argument. 

When your opinion on something that doesn't affect you in any way, infringes on the enjoyment of others, then yeah.  You probably shouldn't be causing a fuss.  People like Excalibur.  You obviously don't like Excalibur.  You want Excalibur-fans to be deprived of features simply because you don't like the Warframe, and are jealous that people like it more than your preferred Warframe (whichever Warframe that may be).

19 minutes ago, Nukesnipe said:

Seriously, Dexcalibur is the best Excalibur skin, hands down.  Even Umbra's default skin looks better than some of them.

Subjective.  That's your opinion.  You don't speak for the community.  

If your favorite Warframe needs more skins, then you should either: A) Create more, or B) Petition players to get more votes on those currently in the Workshop.  

Edited April 16, 2019 by Alaeacus

[(PSN)GrandisSupernus]

On 2019-03-27 at 5:06 PM, (PS4)Mordecai_Vrykul said:

You said everyone has Excalibur so it would make sense to make designs for him since everyone has that warframe.

If i was a designer and could make money off of tennogen i would first design for Excalibur since he is the potential cash cow. 

But I get your frustration though, as a Titania main, there are only 3 skins and 2 alt helms for her.

That's fair, but conversely, since there are so many Excalibur skins and helmets you'd be competing with not only other Tennogen creators but DE themselves, as the Prestige/Renown pack skins, the Dex skin, the Immortal skin, the Deluxe skin, the as-of-now-Excalibur-exclusive Prisma skin... all of these existing means that that's one less chance to get your Tennogen skin sold once a player is satisfied with one or two of them.

While Excalibur has one of the simplest body shapes, I don't understand why other similarly-simplified Warframe bodies don't get more Tennogen. Sure, you have to do a lot more work to make an Inaros, a Nidus or (especially!) a Titania skin, but what about ones like Mirage or Valkyr? ...Actually, to be fair, quite a few people have tried to make Valkyr skins, but they weren't what the community or maybe DE was looking for so they weren't accepted.

[Nukesnipe]

On 2019-04-16 at 4:03 PM, Alaeacus said:

I'm glad you recognize that the community is almost 100% in control of what is popular, and our community clearly does not agree with your opinion.  As long as the community keeps creating and voting for Excalibur skins, we will get Excalibur skins, whether you personally like it or not.  

When your opinion on something that doesn't affect you in any way, infringes on the enjoyment of others, then yeah.  You probably shouldn't be causing a fuss.  People like Excalibur.  You obviously don't like Excalibur.  You want Excalibur-fans to be deprived of features simply because you don't like the Warframe, and are jealous that people like it more than your preferred Warframe (whichever Warframe that may be).

Subjective.  That's your opinion.  You don't speak for the community.  

If your favorite Warframe needs more skins, then you should either: A) Create more, or B) Petition players to get more votes on those currently in the Workshop.  

Golly gee that's a lot of assumptions you're making!

A:  I love Excalibur, I've been tweaking Umbra around a lot because I enjoy his playstyle.

B:  I'm not envious (jealous means something else) that Excalibur has well over a dozen skins.  My favorite frame is Valkyr and I've got a fair few things for her.  There's a skin in the workshop I hope gets added, but I'm not starved for choices for her.

C: I don't want Excalibur players to be deprived of features because well, did you not see anything I cited?  Excalibur has SO MANY skins and helmets.  Excalibur mains aren't going to be deprived of anything if people stop making skins for him, they're already spoiled for choice more than any other Warframe.

23 hours ago, (PS4)GrandisSupernus said:

That's fair, but conversely, since there are so many Excalibur skins and helmets you'd be competing with not only other Tennogen creators but DE themselves, as the Prestige/Renown pack skins, the Dex skin, the Immortal skin, the Deluxe skin, the as-of-now-Excalibur-exclusive Prisma skin... all of these existing means that that's one less chance to get your Tennogen skin sold once a player is satisfied with one or two of them.

While Excalibur has one of the simplest body shapes, I don't understand why other similarly-simplified Warframe bodies don't get more Tennogen. Sure, you have to do a lot more work to make an Inaros, a Nidus or (especially!) a Titania skin, but what about ones like Mirage or Valkyr? ...Actually, to be fair, quite a few people have tried to make Valkyr skins, but they weren't what the community or maybe DE was looking for so they weren't accepted.

As a Valkyr main, Valkyr is trash and people don't play her much.  If you're going to be playing a melee-oriented frame for anything beyond the fun of being a space catgirl, you're gonna be playing...

Oh, hi there Excalibur.  Fancy seeing you again.

My point is that that's probably why people don't vote for her as much.  Another theory is that there's almost always an Excalibur in contention, and, well, people vote for him, obviously.

[Cubewano]

They sell well, deal with it. 

[Alaeacus]

2 hours ago, Nukesnipe said:

As a Valkyr main, Valkyr is trash and people don't play her much.  If you're going to be playing a melee-oriented frame for anything beyond the fun of being a space catgirl, you're gonna be playing...

Oh, hi there Excalibur.  Fancy seeing you again.

My point is that that's probably why people don't vote for her as much.  

LMAO.  To my eyes, there are only 8 Tennogen items for Valkyr total EVER created by anyone.  4 of those 8 have already been accepted for the game.  That's 50% of Valkyr's Tennogen items already in game.  

In contrast, Excalibur has 63 Tennogen items and only 12 of them have been accepted.  That's only 19% of Excalibur's items accepted into the game.  

By those metrics, Valkyr has received FAR more attention.  Artists are just not making Valkyr stuff.  That has absolutely nothing to do with Excalibur.  

Edited April 17, 2019 by Alaeacus

[(PSN)reddragonhrcro]

In the end it's up to the creator. Hell if I ever get around to model and texture stuff even I have an idea for a Excal skin atm.

[Nukesnipe]

1 hour ago, Alaeacus said:

LMAO.  To my eyes, there are only 8 Tennogen items for Valkyr total EVER created by anyone.  4 of those 8 have already been accepted for the game.  That's 50% of Valkyr's Tennogen items already in game.  

In contrast, Excalibur has 63 Tennogen items and only 12 of them have been accepted.  That's only 19% of Excalibur's items accepted into the game.  

By those metrics, Valkyr has received FAR more attention.  Artists are just not making Valkyr stuff.  That has absolutely nothing to do with Excalibur.  

I will concede that of the Excalibur skins in the workshop, the ones that have been added are the better ones.  Same with helmets, hell, I use the Arcturus helmet, and that's Tennogen.

And did you read anything I wrote there?  Valkyr isn't as popular because she isn't as good as Excalibur in her niche of being a melee-focused Warframe.  Because Excalibur is better and more popular, people make more skins for him and fewer skins for Valkyr.  Yes, of the few that have been made for Valkyr, half have been added.  No, artists aren't making Valkyr cosmetics.  But I wouldn't say that she's gotten more attention because a higher ratio of her Tennogen stuff has been accepted.  She has two thirds the number of Excalibur's accepted items in total.

[Scruffel]

1 hour ago, Nukesnipe said:

-snip-

3 hours ago, Alaeacus said:

-snap-

Just to note as you guys are having this conversation, as much as it may seem that Steam workshop votes and community opinion matter, DE are really the ones making the ultimate choice of what's getting accepted. I don't remember what thread but I remember someone from DE stating that votes aren't really used to determine an item getting accepted.

A pretty good example of this is Nidus Night Hunter, because despite it being an extremely popular skin, it got denied because it had a conflicting aesthetic for the game by their eyes (mostly the original mask). Even an item with barely any attention or votes given towards it can get accepted into the game as long as it fits the rules of TennoGen.

[MirageKnight]

On 2019-03-27 at 4:07 PM, Nukesnipe said:

Seriously, does there need to be this many?  No other Warframe has this many cosmetics.  He doesn't need more.

While I do agree, the onus is, firstly, on the creators. That said, a lot of Tennogen artists seem to insist on flooding the market with Excal skins, instead of working on alt skins for other Frames. Then there's all the people that upvote the skins. Lots of them are probably fans of Excal. Finally, there's DE who ultimately approves what gets put in the game.

Unfortunately, that's what we have to deal with.

[Keybones]

On 2019-04-16 at 4:45 PM, Nukesnipe said:

Ah yes, the "if it doesn't affect you then shut up" argument.

That isn't what he said AT ALL. It is extremely toxic for non-creators to cry foul when their personal desires aren't catered to by artists, and I for one am plenty sick of seeing it. If you want something, then either make it yourself, or take steps to ensure that it will be made, such as by reaching out to an artist whose work you admire and convincing them that it's a good idea. Art comes from an inspired heart, not from being bullied and scolded by people like you.

[Nukesnipe]

59 minutes ago, Keybones said:

That isn't what he said AT ALL. It is extremely toxic for non-creators to cry foul when their personal desires aren't catered to by artists, and I for one am plenty sick of seeing it. If you want something, then either make it yourself, or take steps to ensure that it will be made, such as by reaching out to an artist whose work you admire and convincing them that it's a good idea. Art comes from an inspired heart, not from being bullied and scolded by people like you.

There's nothing toxic about pointing out that the market is flooded by Excalibur cosmetics.  63 of the 247 items listed in the Workshop are Excalibur items, that's a full 25.5%.  One out of every four items is Excalibur, when Excalibur is only one of 39 current Warframes.  I'm arguing that there's too many, yes, but at what point did I bully any artists?  I'm criticizing the fact that there's so many Excalibur items, but criticism is not bullying.

If there is no feedback, there is no improvement.  Shutting down dissenting voices with cries of toxicity is how you get Overwatch.