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There's too many Excalibur skins


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46 minutes ago, Nukesnipe said:

There's nothing toxic about pointing out that the market is flooded by Excalibur cosmetics.  63 of the 247 items listed in the Workshop are Excalibur items, that's a full 25.5%.  One out of every four items is Excalibur, when Excalibur is only one of 39 current Warframes.  I'm arguing that there's too many, yes, but at what point did I bully any artists?  I'm criticizing the fact that there's so many Excalibur items, but criticism is not bullying.

If there is no feedback, there is no improvement.  Shutting down dissenting voices with cries of toxicity is how you get Overwatch.

But most of the Workshop is flooded by outdated Excalibur skins, ones that will never get the chance of getting added in-game and will collect dust. The only one I could think of right now being the most eligible to be added in, is BeastBuster's Blade of the Lotus one.

And yes, while you are allowed to criticize the aspect of how many Excal skins there are, what is anyone supposed to do about it? Should DE stop accepting those skins? Well they can't really do that because it would be unfair for the ones who start to make them. Okay, so should the artists stop making then? Well that's impossible since artists are going to create whatever they please, as long as it falls into what is allowed to DE's TennoGen rules. Alright, then I guess the community should stop voting and sharing them around? Well there's always going to be someone doing so and DE doesn't really factor popularity into their choices.

And what if another Excalibur skin comes into the next round? Well as far as I know, there hasn't been skins that have purposefully taken the slot from another skin to be added into the game. I mean heck, the Excal skin could probably be paired with a wide range of other skins for Warframes that have none or barely any at all.

I mean honestly, the only thing you could really do is what @Keybones said about giving feedback to artists who are making specific skins for Warframes you like (admittedly, I've done it and will still do). Trying to suggest Warframes for artists to work on, could also help the artists to get some ideas or ones for the back-burner for later projects. I know you're not bullying any artists, but you can't really do much when they are working on one, having one ready on the Workshop, or getting one accepted into the game.

Edited by Scruffel
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11 minutes ago, Scruffel said:

But most of the Workshop is flooded by outdated Excalibur skins, ones that will never get the chance of getting added in-game and will collect dust. The only one I could think of right now being the most eligible to be added in, is BeastBuster's Blade of the Lotus one.

And yes, while you are allowed to criticize the aspect of how many Excal skins there are, what is anyone supposed to do about it? Should DE stop accepting those skins? Well they can't really do that because it would be unfair for the ones who start to make them. Okay, so should the artists stop making then? Well that's impossible since artists are going to create whatever they please, as long as it falls into what is allowed to DE's TennoGen rules. Alright, then I guess the community should stop voting and sharing them around? Well there's always going to be someone doing so and DE doesn't really factor popularity into their choices.

And what if another Excalibur skin comes into the next round? Well as far as I know, there hasn't been skins that have purposefully taken the slot from another skin to be added into the game. I mean heck, the Excal skin could probably be paired with a wide range of other skins for Warframes that have none or barely any at all.

I mean honestly, the only thing you could really do is what @Keybones said about giving feedback to artists who are making specific skins for Warframes you like (admittedly, I've done it and will still do). Trying to suggest Warframes for artists to work on, could also help the artists to get some ideas or ones for the back-burner for later projects. I know you're not bullying any artists, but you can't really do much when they are working on one, having one ready on the Workshop, or getting one accepted into the game.

My intent here was to bring it to the attention of any aspiring or extant Tennogen artists.  Votes don't affect whether a skin will get accepted or not (though I imagine there's correlation between the skins DE and the community likes, it's not like they're going to add a skin everyone hates), and people have their own preferences.  It's an issue on the artist side, and ultimately, that's what the thread was directed towards.

It is not, as Keybones said, bullying.  Yes, there's some bad skins in Tennogen, but there's low quality content in any workshop, and people have to start somewhere.  Yes, a lot of the Excalibur skins are bad, but I wasn't calling them out for being bad or trying to insult the artists for making them.  Just, y'know, maybe try something else?  We don't need more Excalibur skins, but I'd bet money that those few Khora mains out there would jump at a Khora skin.

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57 minutes ago, Nukesnipe said:

There's nothing toxic about pointing out that the market is flooded by Excalibur cosmetics.  63 of the 247 items listed in the Workshop are Excalibur items, that's a full 25.5%.  One out of every four items is Excalibur, when Excalibur is only one of 39 current Warframes.  I'm arguing that there's too many, yes, but at what point did I bully any artists?  I'm criticizing the fact that there's so many Excalibur items, but criticism is not bullying.

If there is no feedback, there is no improvement.  Shutting down dissenting voices with cries of toxicity is how you get Overwatch.

"There are too many of _____" as applied to this scenario is not a critique. It's not. That's just complaining. It only would constitute a critique if one artist were solely responsible for creating every skin in Warframe. You could say to that individual, "Hey, we all depend on you to create cool skins for our favorite Warframes, and some players feel a little left out because of how skewed the numbers are at this point". But as you know, the reality is that many different artists create skins for the game, a task that takes weeks of effort on their part, all with the knowledge that their work is a labor of love that might not even make it into the game and will not result in any kind of financial return. And you're sitting there saying "I don't like that you did that. You should have made something else. What a waste."

I tell you again; if you want something, either MAKE IT YOURSELF, or take steps to encourage an artist to make it for you. Feedback like yours can't possibly improve anything.

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My big problem is people expect some of these artists to pull out majestic designs for the weird Warframes, where sometimes making a skin for Excalibur, Nyx, Frost, Ash, etc. is a lot easier to pull off their idea and can be very nice looking. I think you could look at Baruuk, Nidus and Revenant, and just see how awkward their models are and how little people are doing things for each of them. Hell, I wish Vauban actually had any support from the TennoGen community, but since he's not fit for the game's new play style(Thank god he's getting a rework though) no one even cares, and that's just a reality we just live in.

There are definitely enough Not Excalibur skins currently on Workshop that I wouldn't doubt they would get into the game(Jotunheim Loki, Corpra Mesa, all 3 of Khora's skins), so you just gotta hope a good chunk of them get in, but if there's a skin that happens to be for Excalibur and its a very good skin then it may just be accepted, just like any other skin.

 

 

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On 2019-03-27 at 3:07 PM, Nukesnipe said:

I get it, Excalibur is the mascot, everyone has Excalibur.  It's just... there's so many skins for him!  There's eight TennoGen skins for him, three TennoGen helmets with no associated skin, 3 non-TennoGen skins, 3 non-TennoGen helmets, Umbra's Sunder helmet, one XB1 exclusive, two PS4 exclusive, a Twitch exclusive and a Steam exclusive.

Seriously, does there need to be this many?  No other Warframe has this many cosmetics.  He doesn't need more.

Would you rather have too little or too many?

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В 17.04.2019 в 03:45, Nukesnipe сказал:

Ah yes, the "if it doesn't affect you then shut up" argument.  Yes, I would rather have a tennogen with nothing (or only weapon skins, there's a LOT of good ones on there) if the alternative was a bunch more Excalibur skins.

Being so jelly must hurt.

A lot.

None of these affect you in any way but here you are, sitting here being jelious af of other peoples skins.

Цитата

My big problem is people expect some of these artists to pull out majestic designs for the weird Warframes, where sometimes making a skin for Excalibur, Nyx, Frost, Ash, etc. is a lot easier to pull off their idea and can be very nice looking.

99% of people posthing such bs have no clue how modelling works and that no tennogen artist can erase inaros' dog nipples or his pelvis hole for example. No matter what you would add on top, those will remain. Or his ugly feet.

They also dont understand that frames like Excalibur/Nyx are a blank canvas to paint anything you want on top of it.

Edited by -Temp0-
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On 2019-04-25 at 8:04 AM, Alfitron said:

Would you rather have too little or too many?

I mean presently we already have too many, so even if people just stopped making Excalibur skins right now, we'd have more than enough for ages.

On 2019-04-25 at 9:41 AM, -Temp0- said:

Being so jelly must hurt.

A lot.

None of these affect you in any way but here you are, sitting here being jelious af of other peoples skins.

99% of people posthing such bs have no clue how modelling works and that no tennogen artist can erase inaros' dog nipples or his pelvis hole for example. No matter what you would add on top, those will remain. Or his ugly feet.

They also dont understand that frames like Excalibur/Nyx are a blank canvas to paint anything you want on top of it.

Must be lovely not knowing what the word jealous means.

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I don't know what to tell you, other than to start making skins yourself or recruiting a fleet of artists to make meaningful skins that aren't for Excalibur.

Your asking for a solid concept for Warframes that aren't Excalibur, follow the strict guidelines they have set, and be able to do it well enough without it looking "Not up to Par". You have stuff like Corpra, Graxx, Blade of the Lotus, and ION being solid concepts that 3/4 of the sets already have their "Mandatory" Excal skin in plus all the other interesting concepts they've been slowly introducing over time. If you got ideas for a skin but you don't have the talent, then that's your drive to share it with these people to really put out some great concepts, but if you just want to say "I don't like the attention this Warframe is getting when my Warframe is not getting any attention at all but I can't/wont do anything about it." then you'll just need to accept that nothing is going to change without either a renaissance within the artistic side of the community, or rule changes from DE to open up more interesting ideas.

Thank You for coming to my FrameTalk

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De accepts everything they can as long as it works in the game and follows all of their guidelines. They even try to help out artists who haven't quite made the cut with their creations. That being said, There has never been a limit on how many skins that have made it in game or what frames they were for. It's going to stay that way. So just expect more Excalibur skins. We should be glad there are tennogen artists who want to make skins for the game regardless of it being an Excalibur skin or not. I'm not exactly a fan of him but seeing a great skin for him just makes me excited for what that artist has to offer. I don't see anything particularly wrong with having so many skins for him its not something we can exactly avoid. If DE did decide to ban artists from making Excalibur skins that wouldn't be quite fair would it?

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On 2019-04-18 at 10:54 AM, Alaeacus said:

LMAO.  To my eyes, there are only 8 Tennogen items for Valkyr total EVER created by anyone.  4 of those 8 have already been accepted for the game.  That's 50% of Valkyr's Tennogen items already in game.  

In contrast, Excalibur has 63 Tennogen items and only 12 of them have been accepted.  That's only 19% of Excalibur's items accepted into the game.  

By those metrics, Valkyr has received FAR more attention.

No. The attention a frame is getting isn't measured by the number of accepted skins, but by the number of attempted skins whether they're accepted or not. By those metrics, Excalibur has received FAR more attention than Valkyr.

On 2019-04-18 at 2:59 PM, Keybones said:

That isn't what he said AT ALL. It is extremely toxic for non-creators to cry foul when their personal desires aren't catered to by artists, and I for one am plenty sick of seeing it. If you want something, then either make it yourself, or take steps to ensure that it will be made, such as by reaching out to an artist whose work you admire and convincing them that it's a good idea. Art comes from an inspired heart, not from being bullied and scolded by people like you.

I fully agree with you until the second half of your last sentence. That's toxic.

 

How my post reads at the moment is toxic, too.

On 2019-04-18 at 6:38 PM, TheRetrobution said:

My big problem is people expect some of these artists to pull out majestic designs for the weird Warframes, where sometimes making a skin for Excalibur, Nyx, Frost, Ash, etc. is a lot easier to pull off their idea and can be very nice looking. I think you could look at Baruuk, Nidus and Revenant, and just see how awkward their models are and how little people are doing things for each of them. Hell, I wish Vauban actually had any support from the TennoGen community, but since he's not fit for the game's new play style(Thank god he's getting a rework though) no one even cares, and that's just a reality we just live in.

There are definitely enough Not Excalibur skins currently on Workshop that I wouldn't doubt they would get into the game(Jotunheim Loki, Corpra Mesa, all 3 of Khora's skins), so you just gotta hope a good chunk of them get in, but if there's a skin that happens to be for Excalibur and its a very good skin then it may just be accepted, just like any other skin.

FrellingHazmot could do an amazing skin for Vauban!

A lot of the weirder frames are more difficult to work on, especially Nidus and Revenant. I'm hoping to make one for Baruuk, I love that frame. Very cool one IMO

On 2019-04-28 at 9:24 AM, TheRetrobution said:

I don't know what to tell you, other than to start making skins yourself or recruiting a fleet of artists to make meaningful skins that aren't for Excalibur.

Your asking for a solid concept for Warframes that aren't Excalibur, follow the strict guidelines they have set, and be able to do it well enough without it looking "Not up to Par". You have stuff like Corpra, Graxx, Blade of the Lotus, and ION being solid concepts that 3/4 of the sets already have their "Mandatory" Excal skin in plus all the other interesting concepts they've been slowly introducing over time. If you got ideas for a skin but you don't have the talent, then that's your drive to share it with these people to really put out some great concepts, but if you just want to say "I don't like the attention this Warframe is getting when my Warframe is not getting any attention at all but I can't/wont do anything about it." then you'll just need to accept that nothing is going to change without either a renaissance within the artistic side of the community, or rule changes from DE to open up more interesting ideas.

Thank You for coming to my FrameTalk

Yep, one can't control what other people want to do. I had something going for Excal (a helmet) then thought of making a skin to go with it as I'd like to start a series. But, that's a lot of characters to work on. I'd rather go straight to working on frames that appeal to me the most, in no particular order. I guess the thing is, that successful artists are often requested to make a skin for the requesting player's favourite frame, so they get many requests and it makes sense to do a skin for every frame. Usually starting with Excal as he was the first warframe.

IMO, talent is a less affecting aspect of creative output. Hard skill is necessary if you have talent, as it must be developed. But even if you don't, anyone can reach a competent or excellent ability by doing a lot of fundamental study. But it does take sustained effort over time, self discipline and such. Many of us attempt several pieces but without success, it can be discouraging to keep going. I'm currently at that point and realizing that I suck and need to git gud.

On 2019-04-28 at 9:57 AM, (PS4)i7081277 said:

De accepts everything they can as long as it works in the game and follows all of their guidelines. They even try to help out artists who haven't quite made the cut with their creations. That being said, There has never been a limit on how many skins that have made it in game or what frames they were for. It's going to stay that way. So just expect more Excalibur skins. We should be glad there are tennogen artists who want to make skins for the game regardless of it being an Excalibur skin or not. I'm not exactly a fan of him but seeing a great skin for him just makes me excited for what that artist has to offer. I don't see anything particularly wrong with having so many skins for him its not something we can exactly avoid. If DE did decide to ban artists from making Excalibur skins that wouldn't be quite fair would it?

There has also, never been a limit on how many Mags one can send to Quiette Shy

 

 

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