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beaker_redux

Nightwave is an entertaining way to take away catalysts and reactors

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I'm disappointed by Nightwave.  I understand that Battle Passes are the thing right now.  Thanks FortNite and friends.

But what am I really getting?  50 creds every four levels.   And I'm progressing about two levels a week.

So that's 100 creds every two weeks.  Which means I can buy one catalyst or reactor every two weeks.   

Beyond that, there's only one catalyst in the progression rewards.  

Gone are the gifts of the lotus.  Gone are the invasions that reward catalysts.   

 

What am I getting in return?  Scenes?  Emblems and stickers?   The kuva is nice, but I can farm it.  The forma is nice, but I can farm it.

Nightwave is one big money grab by DE since reactors and catalysts are required to use any weapon and frame in the game.

 

If I can get a decent coupon, I'll buy platinum.  50% - 75% off and I'll buy some.  I don't mind supporting the game at that price point.   But those are rarities and I find the normal prices unacceptable.

I really don't want to spend my time gathering crap and selling it.  I play a lot solo with my work schedule, and I can't be online to wait for buyers to contact me, etc.

So there's really nothing left for me.  I've got 8 new frames and a ton of weapons I'd like to use but I can't.

 

Suggestions:

Each progression reward that awards creds should be 100 creds instead of 50.  At that level I would still be able to incorporate new frames and weapons into my experience while waiting for a coupon to make platinum an attractive price.

 

Follow up Edit (Apr 10, 2018):

I appreciate everyone's feedback.  Since I wrote this:

* The lotus gifted another catalyst, so I was wrong about them going away, and all those who corrected me were right.  

* I reached the max level of nightwave 30 and entered into the next phase where I earn creds for each level.  While 15 is less than I hoped, this is *exactly* what I want.  Now I can steadily grind away earning potatoes, of which I need many.  I've really enjoyed this phase of nightwave.

* I still haven't gotten a good coupon, but that's okay.  The need for platinum has encouraged me to attempt some sales and I've been successful several times.  The platinum earned has allowed me to expand my weapon slots.

I left my original comments above to memorialize my frustration (and ... some ignorance).  But my current state is that I'm very pleased with my ability to progress in a game i'm terribly fond of.

Thank you again to everyone's feedback.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, beaker_redux said:

Gone are the gifts of the lotus.  Gone are the invasions that reward catalysts.   

No, those are still there.

I agree that the economy's a little screwy, but that's demonstrably wrong. Reward Catalysts are just really rare as they always have been.

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8 minutes ago, beaker_redux said:

Gone are the gifts of the lotusGone are the invasions that reward catalysts.

No they're not.

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12 minutes ago, beaker_redux said:

So that's 100 creds every two weeks.  Which means I can buy one catalyst or reactor every two weeks.

Which is probably more often than you got a random potato alerts before.

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8 minutes ago, beaker_redux said:

Gone are the gifts of the lotus.  Gone are the invasions that reward catalysts. 

Sorry, but both of those are still there.
Invasions are still a thing.  Gift of the Lotus is still a thing.
The only thing that is gone is the random "Oh hey, have a catalyst if you can be up for the 15 minutes the alert is happening at midnight!"

Right now its much better because you can work towards getting a catalyst.  You don't have to worry about missing a catalyst because you were sleeping, or at work, or at school.
Gift of the Lotus will still be a thing, and the reason is that its not random, and lasts for 24 hours so its much fairer and harder to miss than the other alerts.

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I have about 150 creds. I don't even have to spend them because of Gift of Lotus. So there's that. Now that you mentioned it I think I'll buy a catalyst. Then I just have to wait for that Hildryn alt helmet.

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Tbh trading creds for potatoes doesn't really worth the effort, it's better to farm plat and save those creds for nitains/auras

Oh, so  "they removed potatoes!!!" might be practically true.

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13 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

The only thing that is gone is the random "Oh hey, have a catalyst if you can be up for the 15 minutes the alert is happening at midnight!"

Right now its much better because you can work towards getting a catalyst.  You don't have to worry about missing a catalyst because you were sleeping, or at work, or at school.
Gift of the Lotus will still be a thing, and the reason is that its not random, and lasts for 24 hours so its much fairer and harder to miss than the other alerts.

The big problem is that now, you have to sacrifice this occasional reactor/catalyst for some Nitain. But you're the one willingfully doing it.

That's the biggest gripe imo. Someone that is working toward his MR or wants to craft any Nitain component will be forced to look at Reactors/Catalysts, /sigh at it, then buy Nitains. With the old Alerts system, of course most of the Alerts were 3am events, but occasionally you could be connected at the same time, thus ensuring one free catalysts without screwing your Nitain needs.

This is imo a completely unsatisfying process. Giving you this "false illusion of choice". Same goes for all the Aspects and Helmets. Until you're MR27 / full reactor'd / full catalyzed / nice Nitain stock (for future crafts), you are given the opportunity to have a look at all those nice stuff you won't buy.

"But, you can buy this Helmet... If you don't buy the exclusive Nightwave-shop Nitain or any Catalyst/Reactor !"

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Fyi, gifts of the lotus are also a once per 2 weeks kinda deal. And potatoe alert are so rare, clanmates would usually chirp in in all caps whenever one actually pop up.

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hace 6 minutos, Chewarette dijo:

The big problem is that now, you have to sacrifice this occasional reactor/catalyst for some Nitain. But you're the one willingfully doing it.

That's the biggest gripe imo. Someone that is working toward his MR or wants to craft any Nitain component will be forced to look at Reactors/Catalysts, /sigh at it, then buy Nitains. With the old Alerts system, of course most of the Alerts were 3am events, but occasionally you could be connected at the same time, thus ensuring one free catalysts without screwing your Nitain needs.

there are only a few weapons/warframes that requiered nitain, and for a new player you just need a basic loadout to finish all the starchat... there are a lot of issues and problems with the nightwave, but this is not one of those

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48 minutes ago, beaker_redux said:

I'm disappointed by Nightwave.  I understand that Battle Passes are the thing right now.  Thanks FortNite and friends.

But what am I really getting?  50 creds every four levels.   And I'm progressing about two levels a week.

So that's 100 creds every two weeks.  Which means I can buy one catalyst or reactor every two weeks.   

Beyond that, there's only one catalyst in the progression rewards.  

Gone are the gifts of the lotus.  Gone are the invasions that reward catalysts.   

 

What am I getting in return?  Scenes?  Emblems and stickers?   The kuva is nice, but I can farm it.  The forma is nice, but I can farm it.

Nightwave is one big money grab by DE since reactors and catalysts are required to use any weapon and frame in the game.

 

If I can get a decent coupon, I'll buy platinum.  50% - 75% off and I'll buy some.  I don't mind supporting the game at that price point.   But those are rarities and I find the normal prices unacceptable.

I really don't want to spend my time gathering crap and selling it.  I play a lot solo with my work schedule, and I can't be online to wait for buyers to contact me, etc.

So there's really nothing left for me.  I've got 8 new frames and a ton of weapons I'd like to use but I can't.

 

Suggestions:

Each progression reward that awards creds should be 100 creds instead of 50.  At that level I would still be able to incorporate new frames and weapons into my experience while waiting for a coupon to make platinum an attractive price.

 

Just be thankful this is a "battle pass" event that you don't have to pay to play. There are other games where you have to do this. So please explain how this is a money grab, considering you have to pay for reactors & catalysts anyway?

Also, they cost like 20 plat each...thats hardly a huge amount, considering you can buy 170 for around £5 with a 50% discount.

Also, in case you missed it, there is a GOTL event running right now. Although it is an old one, that I already have the rewards for, so there is no point in me doing it.

 

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Based off of what I found on the wiki, I did the math to figure out how long it would take to buy everything in the cred shop:

160 nitain - 15 Creds each - 480 total

18 mods - 20 Creds each - 360 total

10 weapon skins - 30 Creds each - 300 Total

9 weapons - 50 Creds each - 450 total

3 Vauban parts - 25 Creds each - 75 total

38 alt helmets - 35 Creds each - 1,330 total

That's 2,995 credits for everything in the shop. But notice how I didn't include catalysts of reactors? That's because everyone needs a different amount of those, so I had no way of accurately quantifying their total cost.

Even without including them, if you are a brand new player and still need everything in the shop, it will most likely take you about TEN SEASONS to get everything on offer. Assuming about ten weeks per season, this means it will will take you just about TWO YEARS to get it all. This is also assuming 300 Creds per season, since I have not been able to find any solid info on just how many extra Creds you can get after rank 30. And of course, a new player will most likely have trouble even getting to rank 30 at all, since many of the challenges are not possible until you get fairly far into the game. So it will probably take them even longer than that.

Then add to all that an extra 75 Creds for a potato whenever you need another one, and it will take even longer. Even if you were to buy nothing but potatoes, you could only get four of them with the 300 base Creds per season. And that is assuming that you are okay with getting absolutely nothing but four potatoes all season, which seems unlikely.

So yeah, we could really use quite a few more Creds per season. For this, and other reasons, I have suggested before that all rank based rewards get moved into the Cred shop, and be replaced with nothing but Creds per rank. Something like 20~25 per rank, with a larger 50~60 bundle every 5 ranks. Along with this, remove the maximum rank per season, and just let everyone see how far they can get. This would speed things up to what seems like a much more reasonable acquisition rate, as well as giving everyone much more choice over what they get and when. Adding some Cred rewards to things like capturing fugitives, and defeating the Wolf wouldn't hurt, either.

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1 minute ago, Teljaxx said:

Based off of what I found on the wiki, I did the math to figure out how long it would take to buy everything in the cred shop:

160 nitain - 15 Creds each - 480 total

18 mods - 20 Creds each - 360 total

10 weapon skins - 30 Creds each - 300 Total

9 weapons - 50 Creds each - 450 total

3 Vauban parts - 25 Creds each - 75 total

38 alt helmets - 35 Creds each - 1,330 total

That's 2,995 credits for everything in the shop. But notice how I didn't include catalysts of reactors? That's because everyone needs a different amount of those, so I had no way of accurately quantifying their total cost.

Even without including them, if you are a brand new player and still need everything in the shop, it will most likely take you about TEN SEASONS to get everything on offer. Assuming about ten weeks per season, this means it will will take you just about TWO YEARS to get it all. This is also assuming 300 Creds per season, since I have not been able to find any solid info on just how many extra Creds you can get after rank 30. And of course, a new player will most likely have trouble even getting to rank 30 at all, since many of the challenges are not possible until you get fairly far into the game. So it will probably take them even longer than that.

Then add to all that an extra 75 Creds for a potato whenever you need another one, and it will take even longer. Even if you were to buy nothing but potatoes, you could only get four of them with the 300 base Creds per season. And that is assuming that you are okay with getting absolutely nothing but four potatoes all season, which seems unlikely.

So yeah, we could really use quite a few more Creds per season. For this, and other reasons, I have suggested before that all rank based rewards get moved into the Cred shop, and be replaced with nothing but Creds per rank. Something like 20~25 per rank, with a larger 50~60 bundle every 5 ranks. Along with this, remove the maximum rank per season, and just let everyone see how far they can get. This would speed things up to what seems like a much more reasonable acquisition rate, as well as giving everyone much more choice over what they get and when. Adding some Cred rewards to things like capturing fugitives, and defeating the Wolf wouldn't hurt, either.

You only need nitains in actually, if you spend plat for everything else...

mods are tradable, weapon skins/helmets are purchasable, vauban and weapons are purchasable.

how many plats needed for those things? well... i don't even want to think about that.

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we are 4 weeks in and i already have 250 creds, thats enough for 3 catalysts/reactors (not including the one i got from the tier rewards)
So on average, 1 per week so far.

Under the old system, yes, you would potentially get a catalyst and a reactor per every 10 days (4 every ~3 weeks), but that depended on you being lucky enough to be online whilst it was available.

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AFAIK, you should get a total of 300 Wolf Creds, not counting Prestige. Meaning for the duration of the Nightwave Act you can get upto 4 Catalyst/Reactor. Unless you're hard core player who do every tasks you can only get 4 Catalyst/Reactor for the duration of about 10 weeks (and you cannot choose anything else... it's eat up all 300 Wolf Creds). I think they'll revised this system in the upcoming Act.

BUT!! you still get 1 Catalyst/Reactor from 'Gift of the Lotus' every 2 weeks after Dev Stream, which is still nice...

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16 minutes ago, Teljaxx said:

Based off of what I found on the wiki, I did the math to figure out how long it would take to buy everything in the cred shop:

160 nitain - 15 Creds each - 480 total

18 mods - 20 Creds each - 360 total

10 weapon skins - 30 Creds each - 300 Total

9 weapons - 50 Creds each - 450 total

3 Vauban parts - 25 Creds each - 75 total

38 alt helmets - 35 Creds each - 1,330 total

That's 2,995 credits for everything in the shop. But notice how I didn't include catalysts of reactors? That's because everyone needs a different amount of those, so I had no way of accurately quantifying their total cost.

Even without including them, if you are a brand new player and still need everything in the shop, it will most likely take you about TEN SEASONS to get everything on offer. Assuming about ten weeks per season, this means it will will take you just about TWO YEARS to get it all. This is also assuming 300 Creds per season, since I have not been able to find any solid info on just how many extra Creds you can get after rank 30. And of course, a new player will most likely have trouble even getting to rank 30 at all, since many of the challenges are not possible until you get fairly far into the game. So it will probably take them even longer than that.

Then add to all that an extra 75 Creds for a potato whenever you need another one, and it will take even longer. Even if you were to buy nothing but potatoes, you could only get four of them with the 300 base Creds per season. And that is assuming that you are okay with getting absolutely nothing but four potatoes all season, which seems unlikely.

So yeah, we could really use quite a few more Creds per season. For this, and other reasons, I have suggested before that all rank based rewards get moved into the Cred shop, and be replaced with nothing but Creds per rank. Something like 20~25 per rank, with a larger 50~60 bundle every 5 ranks. Along with this, remove the maximum rank per season, and just let everyone see how far they can get. This would speed things up to what seems like a much more reasonable acquisition rate, as well as giving everyone much more choice over what they get and when. Adding some Cred rewards to things like capturing fugitives, and defeating the Wolf wouldn't hurt, either.

the tiers are prestige-able for extra creds.

we are almost at the end of week 5 (in my previous post i stated 4 weeks, but that is because the nightwave started in the middle of a week so it's a bit up in the air) I should be up to rank 22 at the end of this week. Meaning if i keep going the way i am going should be at rank 44 (back around to 14) by the end of the season (assuming i dont farm a whole bunch of fugitives)

If we assume the prestige tiers are the same (surely not as some of them are cosmetics we don't need more than 1 of) then i should have 450 creds per season. 
Meaning i should need just shy of 3 seasons (30 weeks) to get everything currently available.

IF HOWEVER, we replace all of the 1-off cosmetics with more creds (there are 5 of these in the first 14 tiers), that's a total of 700 creds per season, or 2 seasons to get everything.
But again, that assumes im not going to up my fugitive-hunting.

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23 minutes ago, Test-995 said:

You only need nitains in actually, if you spend plat for everything else...

mods are tradable, weapon skins/helmets are purchasable, vauban and weapons are purchasable.

how many plats needed for those things? well... i don't even want to think about that.

Well, you don't really need weapon skins or helmets, so that's half this stuff which can be very easily set aside for later.

For reference, I'm very much in favour of this new system, because it means that people can actually work towards getting alertium rather than having to drop everything at a moment's notice simply because a video game told them that one resource can only be gotten now. I'd much rather that wolf credits were split evenly across the entire rank stream rather than being given in large, discrete lumps (take them out, replace them with forma, divide the total you would have gotten by 30 and then give that much each time you rank up), but the current distribution is relatively OK (mostly towards the beginning, which is acceptable).

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38 minutes ago, Regiaz20 said:

there are only a few weapons/warframes that requiered nitain, and for a new player you just need a basic loadout to finish all the starchat... there are a lot of issues and problems with the nightwave, but this is not one of those

A few. 162 Nitain extracts required still.

26 minutes ago, Test-995 said:

You only need nitains in actually, if you spend plat for everything else...

In this case the whole Nightwave is useless, as you can also buy all the stuff requiring Nitain Extracts with :platinum: .

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to be fair, between coupons, invasions and GoTL alerts, I have enough potatoes. got like 20+ Reactors and normally I use up all my Catalysts, but I have 5 of those on standby too. I do think the currencies of Nightwave should be made more widely available though, hopefully that's a lesson DE will take away from WoS6

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28 minutes ago, Test-995 said:

You only need nitains in actually, if you spend plat for everything else...

mods are tradable, weapon skins/helmets are purchasable, vauban and weapons are purchasable.

how many plats needed for those things? well... i don't even want to think about that.

Sure, you can also buy almost all the Cred shop stuff for platinum. That hasn't changed from when it was all available as alert rewards. But the difference is that with alerts, you never had to choose between two different items. Getting one thing did not mean that you would be unable to get something else. Even if the two alerts were up at the same time, you could usually do both of them before they went away.

But with Creds, you have a choice to make. Do you buy that cool looking helmet? Or do you by a useful aura mod? If you buy the helmet, you'll probably need some nitain to craft it. Do you buy all of Vauban's parts? They cost the same as a reactor, which you will also need to get the most out of him. There is always a trade off now. If you get this thing now, you can't get that thing until later. So which one do you need the most? And which, if any can you afford to miss?

4 minutes ago, DeckChairVonBananaCamel said:

the tiers are prestige-able for extra creds.

we are almost at the end of week 5 (in my previous post i stated 4 weeks, but that is because the nightwave started in the middle of a week so it's a bit up in the air) I should be up to rank 22 at the end of this week. Meaning if i keep going the way i am going should be at rank 44 (back around to 14) by the end of the season (assuming i dont farm a whole bunch of fugitives)

If we assume the prestige tiers are the same (surely not as some of them are cosmetics we don't need more than 1 of) then i should have 450 creds per season. 
Meaning i should need just shy of 3 seasons (30 weeks) to get everything currently available.

IF HOWEVER, we replace all of the 1-off cosmetics with more creds (there are 5 of these in the first 14 tiers), that's a total of 700 creds per season, or 2 seasons to get everything.
But again, that assumes im not going to up my fugitive-hunting.

I have heard that every rank past 30 will give 15 Creds. But I did not include this in my calculations because I have not been able to reliably confirm that info. We also don't know exactly how long a season will last beyond "about 10 weeks". So I made a few assumptions based off of the most concrete info I have.

Of course, this is also assuming that the average player will even make it to rank 30. As I said, the players that need the most stuff out of the Cred shop are also the ones that are the least likely to even make it to rank 30, let alone prestige ranks. If you can get that far, you most likely have been playing for log enough to have most, if not all, of what you need from when it was available from alerts. And if you do still need it all, it will probably take you far longer than my two year estimate to get it all. The system is badly skewed towards those who don't need it, and against those who do.

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3 minutes ago, Teljaxx said:

Of course, this is also assuming that the average player will even make it to rank 30. As I said, the players that need the most stuff out of the Cred shop are also the ones that are the least likely to even make it to rank 30, let alone prestige ranks. If you can get that far, you most likely have been playing for log enough to have most, if not all, of what you need from when it was available from alerts. And if you do still need it all, it will probably take you far longer than my two year estimate to get it all. The system is badly skewed towards those who don't need it, and against those who do.

Yeah true, a lot of the elite weeklies are not exactly new-player friendly

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1 minute ago, Teljaxx said:

And which, if any can you afford to miss?

Really?

Cannae afford to miss a helmet?

Cannae afford to miss Infested Impedance?

Come on!

Why we pretending there's good stuff in that shop? Most of it's junk.

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I fail to understand, I'm a casual player, badly lazy player, some of the challenges I do not complete for plenty of reasons, yet I will be totally fine with Nightwave replacing Alerts altogether, I'm very fond of Nora, looking forward to her telling me more stories in the future and I got several potatoes from the little I've managed to play of Nightwave so far.

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