Can We Have a Universal Aura Polarity?

[Hmm...interesting.]

On 2019-04-03 at 2:51 AM, Birdframe_Prime said:

Aura slots primarily affect the Warframe and have the benefit of stacking with other players Auras for greater effect. Because of the stacking benefit, Auras have to be limited in some regard. If we had a universal one, then players would have no penalty for switching between the ability to gain massive Power Strength from all four squad members equipping Power Donation or Growing Power, the ability to strip all enemy armour with CP, or the ability to run 4 literally unkillable Inaros with massive Health bonuses from Physique.

My point is that they are much more situational, where many warframe builds are not. Unlike many standard warframe builds, most auras are not nearly as universally viable. That's why I think that they should be more flexible. 

[EinheriarJudith]

3 hours ago, Hmm...interesting. said:

My point is that they are much more situational, where many warframe builds are not. Unlike many standard warframe builds, most auras are not nearly as universally viable. That's why I think that they should be more flexible. 

agreed they definitely should be more flexible.

[Benour]

What about you get another copy of frame you want and forma different aura on?

Mind blowing right? 

[EinheriarJudith]

56 minutes ago, Benour said:

What about you get another copy of frame you want and forma different aura on?

Mind blowing right? 

so double the amount of forma, and affinity grind just to have different polarity on aura? thats not only unreasonable but also ridiculous. having the aura slot be flexible is a benefit to everyone.

[Birdframe_Prime]

10 hours ago, Hmm...interesting. said:

Unlike many standard warframe builds, most auras are not nearly as universally viable. That's why I think that they should be more flexible.

I want to play the Prize Reveal song and show you the litany of mods that are considered 'not viable' in builds, compared to the less-than-twenty Auras total that we have where many of them are viable in builds, even if all they do is fuel some of the more ammo-hungry weapons. Anyone put on Warm Coat recently? What about Flame Repellant or Antitoxin? Ooh, remember Maglev? Where are my Provoked users? And those are just off the top of my head.

Honestly.

Not all mods are created equal. There are some that are powerful, and some that aren't. The very fact that some are powerful is why they are not all possible to slot into the same builds. Even if you take just the recognised few, like CP, Energy Siphon, Steel Charge, Growing Power, Rejuvenation and Physique, which are useful universally (although even these have a power base difference), they are split up into three different polarities literally because they're so useful.

You have to think creatively to pick an Aura polarity that will suit the most of our builds. And, if necessary:

2 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

so double the amount of forma, and affinity grind just to have different polarity on aura? thats not only unreasonable but also ridiculous. having the aura slot be flexible is a benefit to everyone.

Yes, actually.

You've been here long enough, EJ, to remember that Revives were not free. You got 4 per frame, per day, and if you wanted to get more they cost Plat. The way to avoid this was to build multiple of a Warframe. This is not an uncommon thing in this game, although it has fallen out of use. I know that OP hasn't been around that long, so the inbuilt reaction to limitations like that isn't as clear-cut as it was for those of us from that period of the game.

I literally did it last month when I wanted to test an Umbral build but didn't want to gimp my existing builds, so not only did I use more than double the forma (the original only needed one, the Umbral needed 5), I also now have that frame with an incredibly specialised build that cannot be used for anything else. I can't even use the best mods on it until I get an Umbral Forma to even out the cost and let me use Primed Flow instead of regular Flow etc.

Building a second frame, farming a second Corrupted mod (to set it three from the top instead of maxed), gaining and maxing all of the basic Damage mods again so that you can equip a sentinel with the same type of weapon as your primary/secondary/melee without gimping it's build... This is not even all that rare of a process in Warframe.

Auras do not need to be more flexible, the players do.

[EinheriarJudith]

1 hour ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

~ship~

the got rid of the revive system because it was absurd, they added Umbral forma (you just have to wait long enough). little by little they are actually trying to make things more flexible. having the aura slot be more flexible doesn't remove its cost. it will still cost forma to remove the polarization, it will still cost forma to polarize that slot on frames that come with it blank and if that isn't enough, they can just lock the slot just like exilus and make you pay forma to unlock it.

more flexibility is better.

[Birdframe_Prime]

2 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

having the aura slot be more flexible doesn't remove its cost. it will still cost forma to remove the polarization

But that's not what OP is asking for. He's asking for all Auras to have the same polarity so that Forma is not required to change between Auras, so that there is no longer a requirement for actually thinking about what build you're going for, and that the Aura is just independent of regular modding limitations.

They don't want to have frames without a polarity in the Aura, they want a dumbing down of the system so that there is no polarity difference between the damage, the survivability and the utility Auras.

[EinheriarJudith]

Just now, Birdframe_Prime said:

But that's not what OP is asking for. He's asking for all Auras to have the same polarity so that Forma is not required to change between Auras, so that there is no longer a requirement for actually thinking about what build you're going for, and that the Aura is just independent of regular modding limitations.

They don't want to have frames without a polarity in the Aura, they want a dumbing down of the system so that there is no polarity difference between the damage, the survivability and the utility Auras.

i said it doesnt remove its cost just incase people bring some kind of excuse to assume he wants it to be free of all costs. i know what the op is asking for and i support it because it is quite absurd that anytime i want to use a different aura i have to remove mods from my build or spend 1 forma each time i hit a node to load a mission.

its not rocket science. universal polarity for the aura means if i change to a gun that drinks ammo i can change the aura to that weapons scavenger, if i want to change to an aura for support by giving HP or HP regen or more armor i can do that with out spending a forma everytime i want to.

this game is heavily about customization and old systems are still lingering when it comes to this.

[Birdframe_Prime]

6 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

its not rocket science. universal polarity for the aura means if i change to a gun that drinks ammo i can change the aura to that weapons scavenger, if i want to change to an aura for support by giving HP or HP regen or more armor i can do that with out spending a forma everytime i want to.

And that's where you're asking for something that clearly is the opposite of what DE designed this system to actually do.

As I've pointed out, there are clear differences between the functions of the different polarities, and the specific reason for that existing is so that you can't just switch between a scavenger Aura and a health Aura, or a weapon damage Aura even. Not without taking away the Polarity, and the Polarity has the advantage of providing bonus mod points if you match it up.

You have a reward of bonus points for matching the polarity, but are then limited to that polarity until you change it, or you have the flexibility available from not having the polarity, but do not get the reward inherent in specialisation.

Specialisation grants more power, but creates limitations. That is what the entire system is built around.

Basically then, if you want to have the scavenger Auras and also then benefit from extra mod points, you have to polarise. If this means that when you want to use a health boost or regen mod you do not get the bonus mod points, and even have to adjust your build? Then that is exactly the intended result.

And the request to have free and easy access to the power with none of the drawbacks? Going to fall on unsympathetic ears.

[EinheriarJudith]

2 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

And the request to have free and easy access to the power with none of the drawbacks? Going to fall on unsympathetic ears.

and there it is. the excuse of it being free. once again i said it still costs and if it doesnt cost enough lock the slot and make it cost forma. ill gladly pay extra forma for a universal polarity. people should be making sacrifices for umbral mods. guess what DE did? they added umbral forma. nuff said.

[Oreades]

I'd far prefer a multiple polarity system. 

So you could add multiple Forma into a single slot. Allowing you to functionally have every polarity represented, it'd just take the time/resource investment to get-er-done. 

Plus there is zero power creep because you can never slot more than the 8 mods, anything you can do in a Multi-Polarity system, we can already technically do. It just frees you up to use more than the one fixed build you're pretty much stuck with because you've painted yourself into a corner by Formaing your gear. The current system encourages stagnation because it punishes you for trying new things. Where as Multi-Polarity increases build option potentials.

Cause right now if you're built for X but you want to try Y and you can't because you need to re-Forma something so Y will fit. You're likely to never try Y because it means re-polarizing a slot and if it doesn't work out you need to re-re-polariaze that slot back. All of that time/effort is essentially wasted, so it's really easy to muse over it for a bit and write it off without ever bothering. Where as in a multi-polarity system you are rewarded for each and every forma you add to a frame even if you ultimately decide not to use build Y in the longrun, you might use that "off" polarity at some point in the future, it doesn't penalize you for the original polarity because that was never removed.  

Yeah DE might lose out on that one person who has five separate Saryns built five different ways but they are going to pick up a lot of additional playtime and forma investment by the filthy unwashed masses. Which means a lot more transaction potential at least IMHO.

 

**another place that seems like a microcosm of stagnation would be Aura Polarities. Show of hands, who doesn't exclusively use a Dash polarity on the majority of their frames? Cause while I have a couple frames that don't have a Dash, the bulk of my frames sport a Dash and perma Corrosive Projection. And when you get a frame that comes with a baked in Polarity that isn't a Dash for the Aura.... do you not scratch your head and think "but why doe?". At that point it's almost an obligatory Forma to re-polarize it to a dash and that wouldn't feel quite as "bad" if you didn't lose the original baked in non-dash polarity. Even tho you really don't "need" Corrosive projection for the majority of the game, there are times where it's use feels almost obligatory, so you essentially need to build for those times. 

Extend that out a bit further and if you could have multiple polarities in the Aura slots I think a lot of people would agree that they would be far more likely to run different Auras if they felt like they could and who knows maybe they would enjoy it enough to switch things up on the regular. Tho maybe they wouldn't but the option to freely do so would be there in a multi-polarity system. 

 

Edited April 5, 2019 by Oreades

[Birdframe_Prime]

4 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

and there it is. the excuse of it being free. once again i said it still costs and if it doesnt cost enough lock the slot and make it cost forma.

How does one forma make up the cost?

DE put in a locked slot, guess what it was? The Exilus, it costs resources and two forma to unlock and nothing you put in there has any real affect on a build beyond about 15% boost on any stat that isn't Efficiency. That last part is the 'cost' of an Exilus, not the unlock, it's the fact that none of the stats you modify there actually make a meaningful impact on your build outside of a few Drift mods and a couple of Augments. You get the extra power, the cost is that it's not actually a lot of extra power.

You dribbling arthropod.

I'm not talking about the cost to unlock the slot, I'm talking about the cost of specialisation, the extra points you get for that build when you match up. If you want the power of an Aura, which can stack with other frames multiple times, you don't have to match its polarity. It's if you want the bonus points in your build, that's when you have to match it, and that's the bit that OP wants without the cost associated with matching it. The cost of the extra points in your build is that only some of the Auras will give you that, while others that then don't match will actually not grant you as many points as they would if you didn't have a polarity there at all.

4 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

guess what DE did? they added umbral forma. nuff said.

Oh don't even try that. They added one. One Umbral Forma per player, available once every complete Nightwave rotation (since you don't re-earn unique rewards if you pass rank 30). If you complete at least 60% of the weekly tasks associated with Nightwave. That, my friend, is the cost of that one Umbral Polarity that we get to add.

One Umbral Forma across 40 Warframes and a hundred melee weapons that could benefit from the boosted Crit the Sacrificial mods can give you.

That's not even close, nor do I ever want it to be close, to the potential cost of what you're asking. Which is the extra points, the removal of limitations, on your Aura that are currently set out to make you think more about your build and mod better because of those limitations.

[EinheriarJudith]

7 hours ago, Oreades said:

~snip~

i also fully support a multi polarity system being put in place.

[(PSN)lughlonghand]

So yeah, DE isn't just going to remove polarities altogether, it is kind of a core mechanic of the whole mod and equipment customization system. So, an alternative: let people have the option to forma slots on just one of the three available configurations on stuff. I for one find it really annoying that on frames like nova where the different configs require very different polarization to do correctly, that you have to choose which you are going to set up polarities for. rather than being able to have one frame properly forma'd for three different builds  Letting the polarities be tweaked better for the price of having to grind more seems like a fair trade.

[AugmentedJustice]

I'm up for this.

But I can automatically see people with a counter argument such as "well why stop there, why not have universal polarities for every mod, why not just get rid of polarities to begin with?", xD well why not? but seriously my response to that would be, it's tedious formaing things anyway and merely wanting to change one little aura to something else automatically cripples every build you have, and just discourages you to do so because when having an unmatching aura polarity, it decreases mod capacity so significantly compared to changing a polarity in one of your 8 slots and that is nowhere near as much of a crippling blow as changing an aura polarity.

It's just such a damning punishment for simply wanting to change a simple aura to something more convenient for, say, sorties etc, or growing power on volt for more speed, but I use volt for tridolons as well so I can't do that because I need the - polarity for corrosive projection.... so I'm left with choosing one or the other. Why though? why not both? are there people out there really against this?

It seems like such an arbitrary design decision by the way to have the modding system this way, to the point where I don't even think it's a good design decision. I mean what is the point in polarities anyway? more than 80% of useless or lesser used mods have the D polarity, and no one uses them, gee I wonder why? so what is the actual point? but I say LET'S DO IT or allow double polarities on the aura slot atleast, this would please everyone who thinks rationally, and for those who don't, well then, simply don't dual polarity your aura slot, and instead change the one aura polarity to your needed one each time, whilst having to re-level your warframe each time and enjoy doing it that way 🙂   

[Steel_Rook]

On 2019-04-02 at 9:15 AM, (XB1)Orcus Imperium said:

forget the polarity....can all aura's have the same capacity boost that steel charge gives?

How is this falling through the cracks? Yes, please. Having a single Aura mod which grants 4 extra points of Mod Capacity for no real reason is a problem that I'd like to see addressed.