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Acersecomic

Feedback on Wolf of Saturn Six

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5 hours ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

Took out the Wolf at level 70 in 1 min 20 seconds today, carrying the squad through him.  For anyone actively Wolf hunting, this chops a couple minutes off the time:

Valkyr, umbral build (no umbral forma).  Radiation-modded claws and a single gladiator mod slotted building off of Sacrificial Steel to get constant crits pretty quickly.  The slide attack does insane damage and has a lot of multihits.

So, if you're wanting to fully optimize your loadout to kill him practically immediately, Valkyr still has her niche of high single target DPS. 

If you're with a premade squad of buddies/clanmates running fissures to try to get him or something, I recommend 2 Valkyrs, a roar Rhino, and a frame with CC to put his buddies in timeout.  Level 70 would likely go down in about 30 to 40 seconds, assuming everybody digs in.

I can kill the wolf in less than 10 seconds. All I need is make him spawn while I'm doing a void defense mission (the map with lasers) and wait until he stands in front of said laser. Activate it and you'll kill him with one single hit.

I'm not sure why is people complaining about the wolf. All you have to do is spam void defense missions all day long, don't play anything else and wait for him to appear there.

Do you see any flaw in my argument?

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I solo'd him.

 

Well, not exactly. I was running an Exterminate in the Void to bag some samples for Simaris. So of course 'It's this blankety-blank again'. Now I know how people felt about the Collector in Darkest Dungeon.

 

(On a side note, I've been getting jumped a LOT by assassin bosses of late. Four Stalker attacks, two Syndicate hit teams, three Wolf attacks...)

 

In any case, Wolf's pathfinding and geometry could use some work. I got him tangled up between a staircase and a wall in the Tower map, and he couldn't seem to turn around or extricate himself. So after leading his unkillable minions on a merry chase to distract them, I walk up and dump a third of my Vaykor Hek's ammo into the back of his head. Did I mention my VH was modded to deal about 10k rad?

 

Much better than the first time we met, during a Corpus Defense mission and I emptied a Soma Prime loaded with magnetic proc bullets into his face. Might as well have been throwing beanbags.

 

But yeah, he's a damage sponge boss, and the best cure is to use radiation damage.

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Yeah this happened to me once... was doing a fissure when the wolf Came and The Host Left Immediately.

I don't blame him... the Wolf is nuissance ... and that hammer is overrated. I'd rather he leave me the hell alone.

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I usually abort. He's a regular visitor on Hydron, smelling that fresh forma. I'm not going to carry an anti-wolf loadout just for him to drop Nothing At All again, so unless someone else is wrecking him, I'm gone. The last time he showed up, we got him to half health, the host left, and the Wolf healed completely in the transition. I aborted right after that; no point wasting my time. 

In regular missions (say, a void fissure) if it's low level, I'll kill him, and if it's high level, I'll just ditch him and extract. 

 

Edit: and I'm not really sure what the Anti-Wolf weapon would be. I have rad-modded EVERYTHING, and nothing seems to do any particular amount of damage. Three digit numbers, maybe. 

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1 hour ago, Benour said:

Wish i could join army of plebians so i could whine on forums about how Wolf is hard to kill and how he kicked my butt. But no i have to be elitist uber haxxor progamer (well compared to 90% of warframe playerbase i sure i am). Poor me.

There are wepon/frames that completely obliterate him. There is even frame that kills him in less than 30 seconds by using just one ability. 

Oh man how i miss the good old times being ignorant, clueless, whiny plebian... Kappa

Here's your cookie. Congrats for Winning at Warframe.

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I just wish he would appear when I'm kitted for destruction. The one time he's showed up for me was when I was in hydron. Had a rank 10 Hildryn and a rank 16 tonbo....

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15 hours ago, Mrevasivepants said:

Again, it circles back to having to equip said tools for a very narrowed chance of a specific encounter to happen in the first place. It's like taking an excavation equipment to your school everyday because you've the feeling that one day it might come in handy to use it when the school collapses and some of your classmates are stuck underneath.

But there's the thing that we keep coming back to, we have options. Lots of options. Any of them is better than none. One of them, the archgun, doesn't affect your typical frame loadout at all. 

Right now I'm focusing on MR from primary weapons and focus. So I'm mainly using my frame and melee to kill, and have my kitgun in reserve for the wolf or enemies that take more than a single swipe to kill and if the wolf shows up. 

This isn't the meta. It isn't even the highest rad crit I can lay down per shot. With my chroma and one of my Eidolon hunting loadouts I'd do a lot more damage per hit. But I don't carry those. I'm a filthy casual. I'm in this for fun, not farming. With what I have at my disposal, I chose the option that lets me get the job done in a way that's acceptable to me. 

What in that is reminiscent of taking a frontloader to school everyday? 

A better metaphor for what is going on is going to school with no writing utensils and then being upset that they asked us to jot something down. When asked why they don't have anything to use, they complain that having to carry a writing utensil is restrictive, but really it's because they just couldn't bother to bring a pen, pencil, crayon, marker, highlighter, charred stick, mobile phone with note taking application, wax tablet, sand table, or any of the myriad possible ways of copying it down available to them. 

Again 4 people being able to do even half of the damage that I'm doing isn't an outrageous, or onerous bar to have to cross. But many people in Hydron aren't even coming close from what I'm seeing. Casual (and obviously flawed as it's a sample size that's just too small for comfort) observation suggests that the average is about 1/6th. 

No, I don't expect a newb to be wiping the wolf out in seconds. But most of the people in Hydron are not newbs. Many have much higher MR than I do. The takeaway for me isn't that the wolf is a problem, it's that that people are going in unprepared when they should have lots of options to choose from.

That suggests that it's intentional. Just like your argument suggests that they're choosing not to be "restricted". And if that's the case, then they've got nothing to complain about when the fight is a slog against a bullet sponge that they can't hurt. 

That's how I see it. 

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10 hours ago, (XB1)Oussii said:

i did not need to hit him 34 times, it took around 10 shots (video above)

OK, I watched your video. I can kill a level 35 Wolf solo easily too! But like I already said in my previous post, you won't do it this quickly with a level 75 Wolf in a 4 player game... Not even if you strip his armor (but it's a lot faster if you do!). This is what people are complaining about and this is why stripping his armor is a very good idea. In Mithra, even after stripping his armor, I only got him (level 75 Wolf) down 10-15% health (that is 85-90% health remaining) in two clips of Opticor Vandal (that's 16 shots or about 160,000 damage)... If I hadn't stripped his armor, I would be doing about 1/3 the damage and it would take 3x longer to kill him. It's well worth your time to strip his armor first rather than just shoot him the whole time.

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22 hours ago, Zilchy said:

I just shoot him.

 

22 hours ago, Kontrollo said:

I shoot him.

 

21 hours ago, (XB1)The Neko Otaku said:

I fight.

Still want that mask and I'll dump any extra hammer pieces on friends since i encounter him more often and have good rng with his drops

 

20 hours ago, Sloan441 said:

Not I. 

I'm there for a fight and a fight it'll be. 

Granted, he's not the most interesting battle, but a bit of preparation means a dead Wolf. The 7Ps and all that. 

 

20 hours ago, LordChronos said:

I want to shoot him and kill him... not everyone aborts because wolf shows up. 

I shoot him. A lot. Until he dies. From being shot.

It's an effective strategy. 

 

Really having trouble understanding the mentality of people who are intentionally going in unprepared, and then whining that they have a hard time taking his health down. 

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it would be good if next nightwave fieldboss would give standing when defeated. Wolf should give standing to make fighting him worthwhile even if you have all weapon parts.

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23 hours ago, Tokomi_ said:

 Generally speaking, no one wants to fight him; it's universally agreed upon.

No it is not "Universally agreed upon" Plenty of people enjoy it just the way it is. Like me and pretty much everyone in my clan.

You might see all the complaints on the forums and think "wow nobody likes this" but you would be mistaken.

You have to remember warframe has on average 40,000 (yes that is forty-thousand) DAILY players.

SO compared to the palty number of whiners on the forums each day GENERALLY SPEAKING There are many times more people who are content with the game and will gladly play whatever DE spends their time and effort developing.

Maybe its because we are real fans who know DE will work things out that arent perfect just like they have over the past half a decade.

Have some fricken faith people. And if you have no faith then I suggest you spend your time "supporting" other developers.

 

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The only problem I'm having with him is he's not spawning enough. Is he really that strong? I haven't had any problems killing him :S

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Guest

Somehow, this annoying guy doesn't spawn when I have the guns to kill him in a couple of minutes (like my Rivened Catchmoon) but spawns when I an levelling a half baked kitgun that took 30 mins to kill him.

What an ass.

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Hi DE!  I love your game.  Wanted to start with that.  Now the issue:  you boss fights suck. Almost all of them. This is epitomized by the Wolf (for now).

Let's see: 

1. the Wolf can show up any time, meaning that you constantly have to be prepared for a boss fight, so leveling becomes less fun, helping noobs becomes less fun, etc.  People will see him show and literally abandon the mission.  They don't want to fight him. Which can bug the game so you don't get any rewards because you can't extract.  

2.  The Wolf has terrible mechanics.  He is easily predictable, does absurd amounts of damage with several of his attacks, or misses you completely.   He is east to dodge.

3.  He is immune to almost everything and takes almost no damage.  That isn't a challenge, per se, it's just annoying.  Fully kitted out guns that are one shotting heavy gunners are doing 10 damage a shot.  That's not cool.  The idea of the game is to feel like a robot space ninja badass.  Not feel like you're shooting nerf guns at a demigod. I have nerf guns.  I can do that at home.  I dont particularly feel like spending a bunch of my play time shooting the same target and feeling like I could NOT shoot the target and get approximately the same result. 

I have literally NEVER said "I want to play a video game where I spend 34 minutes killing a boss really slowly with no skill of any kind involved - just shoot him and his stupid invincible buddies who can one shot you with a molotov cocktail (despite being in a supposedly super tough robot suit) for 34 minutes.  That's what I want!"

4. Which brings me to his next point - his idiotic drop tables.  DE, when I spend 20-40 minutes killing a dude, bored out of my mind and annoyed, the biggest "F*** You" I can think of is to get a silver mod I already have a dozen of.  Are you kidding me?  That time could have been spent getting rare mods, prime parts, watching TV, reading a book, whatever. 

In the end almost no one likes the Wolf.  In my clan and alliance we all hate him. No one wants to see him.  No one wants to fight him.  People, except clan mates who know it might bug the game, literally leave when they see him, like when the ex who kicked your cat shows up to the bar.  He makes me not want to play the game.  And there are thousands of other players who feel the same way.

You took something cool and made it so it makes people unhappy.

Please, hire some people from Blizzard or somewhere who actually know how to make a boss fight.  Because apart from Lephantis and Tyl Regor, they all suck.  Seriously.  I don't have the time to lay it all out, but I know you must've noticed. 

It is a testament to your game's awesomeness that people still play it despite the worst boss fights I've seen since I owned an original Nintendo in the '80s.

Tl;dr: the Wolf sucks, his fight sucks, almost everyone hates it, please fix it and his drop tables too.  And then most of the rest of your boss fights. Thanks.

Again, I love this game.  I'm just telling you this to hopefully make it better. 

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Inb4 about 7 people saying "He's easy if you use -insanely min-maxed build- git gud scrub"

Cause that's what is about to happen, it happens every time without fail. It seems just not right to not like the Wolf around here.

Isn't the feedback forum fun? >_>

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Just now, Aldain said:

Inb4 about 7 people saying "He's easy if you use -insanely min-maxed build- git gud scrub"

...

Isn't feedback forum fun?

Right?  But I need them to understand that except for a few hard corps min/maxes, the rest of us hate this.

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Just now, HawtFyst said:

Right?  But I need them to understand that except for a few hard corps min/maxes, the rest of us hate this.

They'll then say "But we like it, who should DE cater to?"

Along with a few more things of calling people lazy and/or brushing off any complaints or issues about him.

And then this topic will be rolled into the appearance rate thread where all Wolf complaints go.

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I know, but, IMO, catering to a tiny percentage of a fan base is silly.  WoW has these same arguments too.  The top 1% of players in the world, who spend 82 hours a week doing raiding or M+ insist they should be catered to and constantly complain about any changes that happen AND YET STILL PLAY 82 hours a week, without even paying real money for their subscription.  The other 99% of players really enjoy the changes that have been made and continue to give Blizzard money every month.  Blizzard figured it out after a while, hopefully DE will to.

Ultimately it comes down to this, DE:  are you going to cater to a bunch of people who have no real lives outside of the game, or the 99% of us who play a game more casually, for fun, in between our jobs where we earn money to do stuff like buy platinum and access packs?  Because the fact is that while that 1% is super vocal, they are the minority.  And they aren't spending money - they do relic runs and such and make all their plat off the "filthy casuals."  Most people are either semi casual or fully casual.  They also don't have a ton of time to talk to you, give you feedback, etc.

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just bring a kitty with sharpened claws mod, it cuts the battle time drastically since all his armor is gone. the only real annoying part is his invuln adds. why they are a thing is beyond me.

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It's becoming a trope for them at this point; status immune, overly-tanky enemies that have really simple and really underwhelming abilities, designed more to drag out fights than represent engaging game-play, all thanks to a poorly thought out method of scaling for both enemies and players.

Something is really off when it's much faster to take down things like Thumpers and Orb Mothers than it is to take down this one angry convict in limited power armor.

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1 minute ago, HawtFyst said:

I know, but, IMO, catering to a tiny percentage of a fan base is silly.  WoW has these same arguments too.  The top 1% of players in the world, who spend 82 hours a week doing raiding or M+ insist they should be catered to and constantly complain about any changes that happen AND YET STILL PLAY 82 hours a week, without even paying real money for their subscription.  The other 99% of players really enjoy the changes that have been made and continue to give Blizzard money every month.  Blizzard figured it out after a while, hopefully DE will to.

Ultimately it comes down to this, DE:  are you going to cater to a bunch of people who have no real lives outside of the game, or the 99% of us who play a game more casually, for fun, in between our jobs where we earn money to do stuff like buy platinum and access packs?  Because the fact is that while that 1% is super vocal, they are the minority.  And they aren't spending money - they do relic runs and such and make all their plat off the "filthy casuals."  Most people are either semi casual or fully casual.  They also don't have a ton of time to talk to you, give you feedback, etc.

I'm not saying I don't agree, but there are better ways to go about framing this argument.

Framing your argument like this is just giving the people I'm talking about ammo to brush off your complaints even further. You can't convince most people who think the Wolf is fine because they can kill him in seconds otherwise because most of them don't remember what it is like to not have a fully kitted arsenal of sponge killers on every mission.

And sadly DE has been on radio silence regarding the Wolf aside from a few ineffectual nerfs, so I doubt they have any intention to change this at all.

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Keep a archgun and some health pizzas handy and you're good to go, no min maxed builds needed as long as you have the most mandatory mod on your frame which is Vitality.

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6 minutes ago, (PS4)OriginalEquinox said:

Keep a archgun and some health pizzas handy and you're good to go, no min maxed builds needed as long as you have the most mandatory mod on your frame which is Vitality.

And if I haven't gotten the arch gun yet?

 

ETA:  also, I have umbral vitality on my nidus, and it is still a pain in the butt.  3 formas, level 27, umbral vitality and intensify, and still a pain in the butt. 

And yes, I know I need one or two more formas, but still. 

 

For a boss that can appear anywhere, why should I have to kit myself for a boss fight everywhere I go?  That changes my entire style of playing the game, to one I dont enjoy.  Why should I have to go get a gun I don't want to farm for the pieces for yet to enjoy the other 99% of my gameplay?

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