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Acersecomic

Feedback on Wolf of Saturn Six

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Welp I ran into him at level 18 earlier with a MR3 Excalibur as my only ally, who got smashed by him twice and then ran away.

I as Baruuk with a Baza and Desert Wind took him down in about a minute or two, but the dramatic difference between low level and high level Wolf is 100% everything wrong with how enemy scaling works in Warframe.

If he were able to suffer slash and viral damage he'd go down as fast as any other Grineer, hell any boss would go down from status effortlessly if it weren't for status immunity.

So status is overpowered against enemies so they prevent that, in Arbys they prevent abilities, the only thing left they can prevent players from doing to prevent endgame tier players from nuking things in seconds is making enemies crit proof too. Its absurd that everything is broken to the point where the only way to present any difficulty is making them immune to almost everything.

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6 hours ago, Aldain said:

Inb4 about 7 people saying "He's easy if you use -insanely min-maxed build- git gud scrub"

Cause that's what is about to happen, it happens every time without fail. It seems just not right to not like the Wolf around here.

Isn't the feedback forum fun? >_>

I mean, "it's good as it is" is feedback too, you know?

It seems to me the main issue with the wolf is that he has the stats and the spawn chance of a rare special encounter while having the drop table of a regular boss that you're supposed to farm repeatedly. DE needs to make up its mind about what he's supposed to be and then make him that, one or the other. Either make him drop his stuff reliably or let us fight him when and how often we want. This "worst of both worlds" approach really hasn't worked.

2 hours ago, (PS4)jaggerwanderer said:

How many times have you seen the Wolf of saturn six? And how many times have you defeated him?

Not really counting, but probably about ten. Killed all of them pretty easily, especially before the Magus Lockdown nerf.

It seems to me people don't really know what they want. "There's no challenge!" Okay, here's a tough enemy. "OMG he's too hard, I can't kill him, this is stupid." Damned if you do, damned if you don't, apparently.

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25 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

It seems to me people don't really know what they want. "There's no challenge!" Okay, here's a tough enemy. "OMG he's too hard, I can't kill him, this is stupid." Damned if you do, damned if you don't, apparently.

If The Wolf didn't ignore just about every ability, have an insane amount of HP, be immune to almost everything, then I don't think folks would be all that upset by him.  But now, not only is he a pain in the butt, his buddies are invincible and can take you out with no trouble.  And even then, if you beat him, he gives basically nothing most of the time.  It's honestly not worth your time to mess with.  If the rewards for the fight justified the time/effort needed to defeat him, then more people would do it.  However, that's not the case.  Even high level wolf dudes are worth it since they give Wolf Rep and that's way more than you'll get fighting The Wolf most of the time.

The rewards don't justify the time required to take him down.

That said, I'm all for enemies to show up in my missions and add in some extra chaos, but not this.  The Wolf is needlessly a pain in the butt and it takes the fun out of the game when he shows up.

I have to say at this point I've had The Wolf show up in my missions more times than I can even count.  The last time was in a Hydron defense mission.  Let me tell you, that wasn't pretty.  Why his buddies have to be invincible I'll never know.  I would have hoped that DE would fix this, but they haven't and don't seem to be willing to even discuss it.  That's the most frustrating part of this whole thing, to be honest.

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3 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

yet your ensuing its all the new players or other less prepared players fault that wolf is harassing them or the fact he takes too long to fight. after all i did point out that your thinking about how you would do it not how someone else would do it. going with the "he isn't so bad if you do this or this...."  

Wolf doesn't harass anyone. He has a fixed spawn rate, and that's all that it does, follow the rules of RNG. Cognitive bias means that for people who are unprepared his spawn seems to be major event and they blame it on being unprepared. That's not how this works. 

Quote

this is why i quoted your whole comment. because the whole thing goes out the window when you try to put the blame entirely on the new or unprepared players rather then spread out the blame.

New players, get my sympathy. Just like they get it for Stalker showing up or the Syndicate goon squads. For them anything beyond the ordinary might mean instant death. That's probably why DE made it so lower level missions have a significantly lower spawn rate. 

 

Unprepared players who have options on the other hand? No. Because unlike you, I believe in their agency. They can prepare for the chance of arrival especially since the radiation damage, also works well on most stuff in the game. 

Quote

sure the players could be more prepared but how do you do that exactly if there is a brick wall named wolf in your way preventing you from preparing yourself to prepare for him?

First because that brick wall only has a 6% maximum chance of showing up in level 20+ missions. So the vast majority of the time, it's not preventing anyone from doing anything no matter how much you want to try passing off that acorn as a piece of the sky that fell on your head. 

And second because we know that there are places where he cannot spawn at all. Try visiting Simaris in the relay, Wolf doesn't show up in the sanctuary and it's  even more efficient for xp or focus grinding. You can go to either Orb Vallis or the Plains and grind your heart out. Assisnate missions, yeah you're fine. Syndicate missions, he can't show up. Or you can focus on the lower level missions with only a 4% chance of seeing him. 

 

BTW the "he isn't so bad if you" is followed by "go in having chosen one of the many options to prepare for him."

Give it a try. 

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5 hours ago, ColPresumptuous said:

*snip*

Dude. Preach it.

And vent away. No good comes from bottling it up.

You get it too. You absolutely get it. I feel your pain. Haha. I think too many people feel your pain.

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I've seen the opposite happen: people aborting after 5 minutes when the wolf doesn't show up, even while the mission is still ongoing (stuff like wave 4 of hydron)

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11 hours ago, Infirito said:

This might work for the lowest levels of Wolf, sure, however this will do nothing against Wolf lvl 70. Vitality won't save you from getting oneshotted by Fugitive's napalm bomb.

I think the highest level I've faced is the one in Hydron when levelling my Equinox prime and I was able to chip him down with my archgun even though one person was afk and the other was cc'ing the three Stooges, the one other player helping me had fodder weapons so he wasn't making a dent even, archguns do help, you just need patience. 

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On 2019-04-21 at 12:27 PM, Zilchy said:

Well the thing is he scales with the amount of players but that means that all 4 players are expected to contribute. If they're not, that means the other players have it tougher and that's just the risk of playing pub. Solo I can drop him in less than a minute and in a group it's only a few minutes with a good weapon. 

What weapon do you recommend fighting the wolf with anyway, last time I fought him I was lvling a tipedo and it was lvl 6 at the time...I was playing in hydron.

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)ErydisTheLucario said:

What weapon do you recommend fighting the wolf with anyway, last time I fought him I was lvling a tipedo and it was lvl 6 at the time...I was playing in hydron.

Rubico prime modded for crit and radiation. It wrecks him in a few clips.

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10 hours ago, taiiat said:

idk Players have to be making themselves unprepared or just not at a point in the game where the Wolf event is really relevant/appropriate for them, or just being foolishly careless with their Equipment options - in order for the Wolf to be a major problem.

if one doesn't feel like they've progressed far enough that the Wolf is appropriate for them, fair enough. if they had just actively made themselves unprepared, then i have no sympathy.

You do realize that most times when the wolf does spawn that people are lvling weapons  or frames right?

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7 hours ago, ColPresumptuous said:

In the entire nightwave so far and ive been playing since half way through week 1 ive seen the bastard around 12-13 times

Count yourself lucky. I've seen him 3 times so far, and have been playing every day. On the other hand, perhaps I'm the lucky one, cause he dropped 3 *different* stance mods on each encounter for me. 

I don't think this encounter has been fully thought through. His scaling is bizarre - no problem wiping the floor with his face at level 60, at level 75 it takes forever. With such low chances of appearance, I find it hard to justify to always take Wolf-deleting equipment with me. And when he does show up, after the initial rush of euphoria (yay! he finally chose to spawn!), once you get to defeating him, he drops you a Spinning Needle. That's not how "fun" works for me.

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6 hours ago, (NSW)EDarkness said:

If The Wolf didn't ignore just about every ability, have an insane amount of HP, be immune to almost everything, then I don't think folks would be all that upset by him.

How would you make him difficult, then? Because if he didn't ignore abilities, he'd be just as trivial as any other grineer grunt.

6 hours ago, (NSW)EDarkness said:

Even high level wolf dudes are worth it since they give Wolf Rep and that's way more than you'll get fighting The Wolf most of the time.

I mean, he does have fugitives with him, defeating him lets you capture them and get rep.

6 hours ago, (NSW)EDarkness said:

Why his buddies have to be invincible I'll never know.  

To make the fight more interesting. The Wolf does almost no damage and ignores abilities, which makes him pretty boring to fight. The fugitives are his opposite, they deal huge damage and can't be killed but can be CCed.

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6 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Wolf doesn't harass anyone. He has a fixed spawn rate, and that's all that it does, follow the rules of RNG. Cognitive bias means that for people who are unprepared his spawn seems to be major event and they blame it on being unprepared. That's not how this works. 

07733f6149.jpg
 

Are you serious right now? The whole thread is the majority of people complaining about how he shows up unannounced when they're completely caught off guard.

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I still just wish he'd show up for me. I'm ready to murder him at this point but he never shows up. I'm tired of seeing everyone complaining that he's all over their games, harassing them at all hours, while I'm still doubting he actually exists.

Edit: I'd rather he was a node that you got keys for by capturing the fugitives, at least that way I'd get to see him.

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2 hours ago, (PS4)ErydisTheLucario said:

You do realize that most times when the wolf does spawn that people are lvling weapons  or frames right?

so, people are only ever Leveling Equipment, and in a way that leaves them completely unprepared to Kill any Enemy that is more dangerous than a Lancer?
i'm pretty sure that is not quite an accurate representation of what everybody spends all of their time doing. especially with all of their Equipment that they have Equipped.

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3 hours ago, Zilchy said:

Rubico prime modded for crit and radiation. It wrecks him in a few clips.

No it doesn't.... unless you have non standard mods.

5 minutes ago, taiiat said:

so, people are only ever Leveling Equipment, and in a way that leaves them completely unprepared to Kill any Enemy that is more dangerous than a Lancer?

Yep... pretty much....  one time the Wolf showed up and it took 20 Minutes to kill him as usual and after we got rid of him we were right back to two shotting Noxes and Hyeka masters... 

 

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2 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

Yep... pretty much....  one time the Wolf showed up and it took 20 Minutes to kill him as usual and after we got rid of him we were right back to two shotting Noxes and Hyeka masters...

Last time I met him I was levelling equipment and what I did was...

On 2019-04-21 at 7:54 PM, Kontrollo said:

I shoot him.

Well not exactly, it was a Kuva Flood and in that case I was just using Exalted Blade. When next time I use another Warframe while levelling things it'll be something else I guess.

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On 2019-04-21 at 7:15 PM, Tokomi_ said:

Who aborts when the wolf appears in a mission?

Good question, i would like to answer yo........... if only i had the honor to meet him at least once!!! 

 

"FFS"                                                                                                                     -TheKurtiStryke 2019

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I wouldn't abort for him but I never jump for joy. I just roll my eyes and prepare for some "content".

I was doing an Invasion - Capture(solo) and he showed up. Of course, I'm using all unfinished gear. Stradavar and Tipedo Prime said "No thanks". I have my Rattleguts with infinite ammo, though. That arcane is pretty nice. At about ~300 a shot, it took about 6~7m to shoot him to death. This is after my Kavat ate his armor. He dropped nothing but a sweet silver mod. Oh, the satisfaction! I think he was about level 45. His HP based on a level calculator is around 45k. Given the variables this seems rather accurate. Not absurd but still pretty chunky. This of course also assumes there are no other modifiers in play.

Seeing him teleport through lockers like Akuma is just hysterical. He's some seriously high-skill Grineer. It's interesting but seems out of flavor for this kind of enemy.

My biggest issues with him are that he ignores a lot of the game's mechanics(like status) and demands a purpose-built weapon of some sort. Instead of choosing 3 of my weapons, I only really have a choice of 2 unless I want to waste my time or skip this random encounter entirely. Also, in my situation, I build and use status weapons almost entirely. I don't care for crit all that much. My arsenal for fighting this piece of crap is rather limited.

I like the idea of this character but it needs better implementation. There are no environmental mechanics. Nothing creative. It's just a huge HP bar. Some people are okay with that and it's fine I guess.

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1 hour ago, Mrevasivepants said:

07733f6149.jpg
 

Are you serious right now? The whole thread is the majority of people complaining about how he shows up unannounced when they're completely caught off guard.

100 percent serious. 

Anyone who doesn't understand how it works isn't understanding what RNG is. 

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An Arca Plasmor built for radiation melts him. I've killed him with a Lex Prime when I got caught levelling a primary (took a lot of bullets but was do-able) that only has 2 forma in it. Never go unprepared, always have multiple damage types and at least one weapon capable of dishing out punishment. Stalker and the Sentients taught us that. We know he is pretty much status immune so plan ahead.

Spoiler

Anyone tried using their operator on him? Mine is very weedy but shooting him in the back while he wailed on my invincible frame was boring but far from dangerous.

As with Stalker and the other assassins there has to be something in the game that will make even our OP frames cower in fear. It isn't as if you fail the mission if you just let him/them kill you either.

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2 hours ago, Lutesque said:

No it doesn't.... unless you have non standard mods.

Yes it does, it's the ideal weapon, non-slash, high crit multiplier, high base damage. I like proving you wrong with videos Lutesque cos then you've got nothing so here's a couple of a useless rubico prime in action vs Wolf

As you can see, totally ineffective. That first one he is level 65 btw.

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4 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

How would you make him difficult, then? Because if he didn't ignore abilities, he'd be just as trivial as any other grineer grunt.

First of all, make him vulnerable to status procs. But then add this: adaptative armour like sentients and stalker. An enrage mode where for every proc afflicting him, he'll gain X% damage and Y% speed. On top of that, make the gremlins vulnerable again and every time you capture one, he'll gain a berserker buff with a 10% more damage. And also make him vulnerable to warframe abilities but with decreasing effects on him every time you use one. On top of that, make him able to use a stomp when you try to melee him as other grineer heavy units do. Now you have a boss that provides a real challenge instead of being just a boring bullet sponge.

 

EDIT: A bullet sponge is not a challenge to anyone except the fans of huge numbers. And even then, it's not a real challenge, it's just a target where you can show the rest how much damage you do. But it's actually more an annoyance than anything else.

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if there were some interesting or clever mechanics behind him many would probably not be as fussed, but nope, he is just a boring bullet sponge (even seemingly with armor stripped) and his little minions are beyond mere annoyances unless you are lucky to have a limbo banishing them while you deal with the wolf...... who lets be real, will probably drop you a nice "Deep Freeze" mod for your troubles.

It's just more "wth were you thinking" type of additions that you wonder if some rival company dev entered their building and added the wolf as a form of corporate sabotage or out of season april fools.

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18 minutes ago, (NSW)Belaptir said:

First of all, make him vulnerable to status procs. But then add this: adaptative armour like sentients and stalker.

That's just a bullet sponge with extra steps.

18 minutes ago, (NSW)Belaptir said:

An enrage mode where for every proc afflicting him, he'll gain X% damage and Y% speed.

That's a terrible idea, since you can't decide to stop dealing procs. You might as well just make his stats go up on a timer. People are already complaining that you need to run a specialized loadout at all times to have a shot at killing him, with this you'd have to specialize even more (i.e. one gun to deal just the right amount of procs, then switch to a different gun to actually deal damage without causing procs).

19 minutes ago, (NSW)Belaptir said:

On top of that, make the gremlins vulnerable again and every time you capture one, he'll gain a berserker buff with a 10% more damage.

That encourages the exact same method of engagement we use now, i.e. just CC the flunkies and lure the Wolf away from them. Again, same thing we have now with extra steps.

21 minutes ago, (NSW)Belaptir said:

And also make him vulnerable to warframe abilities but with decreasing effects on him every time you use one.

Because gameplay mechanics being inconsistent is good game design?

27 minutes ago, (NSW)Belaptir said:

On top of that, make him able to use a stomp when you try to melee him as other grineer heavy units do.

That adds annoyance, not challenge. It's just a brief pause in the fight where neither of us can do anything, locked into our respective animations (knockdown and stomp).

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