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11 hours ago, Infirito said:

This might work for the lowest levels of Wolf, sure, however this will do nothing against Wolf lvl 70. Vitality won't save you from getting oneshotted by Fugitive's napalm bomb.

I think the highest level I've faced is the one in Hydron when levelling my Equinox prime and I was able to chip him down with my archgun even though one person was afk and the other was cc'ing the three Stooges, the one other player helping me had fodder weapons so he wasn't making a dent even, archguns do help, you just need patience. 

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On 2019-04-21 at 12:27 PM, Zilchy said:

Well the thing is he scales with the amount of players but that means that all 4 players are expected to contribute. If they're not, that means the other players have it tougher and that's just the risk of playing pub. Solo I can drop him in less than a minute and in a group it's only a few minutes with a good weapon. 

What weapon do you recommend fighting the wolf with anyway, last time I fought him I was lvling a tipedo and it was lvl 6 at the time...I was playing in hydron.

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)ErydisTheLucario said:

What weapon do you recommend fighting the wolf with anyway, last time I fought him I was lvling a tipedo and it was lvl 6 at the time...I was playing in hydron.

Rubico prime modded for crit and radiation. It wrecks him in a few clips.

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10 hours ago, taiiat said:

idk Players have to be making themselves unprepared or just not at a point in the game where the Wolf event is really relevant/appropriate for them, or just being foolishly careless with their Equipment options - in order for the Wolf to be a major problem.

if one doesn't feel like they've progressed far enough that the Wolf is appropriate for them, fair enough. if they had just actively made themselves unprepared, then i have no sympathy.

You do realize that most times when the wolf does spawn that people are lvling weapons  or frames right?

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7 hours ago, ColPresumptuous said:

In the entire nightwave so far and ive been playing since half way through week 1 ive seen the bastard around 12-13 times

Count yourself lucky. I've seen him 3 times so far, and have been playing every day. On the other hand, perhaps I'm the lucky one, cause he dropped 3 *different* stance mods on each encounter for me. 

I don't think this encounter has been fully thought through. His scaling is bizarre - no problem wiping the floor with his face at level 60, at level 75 it takes forever. With such low chances of appearance, I find it hard to justify to always take Wolf-deleting equipment with me. And when he does show up, after the initial rush of euphoria (yay! he finally chose to spawn!), once you get to defeating him, he drops you a Spinning Needle. That's not how "fun" works for me.

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6 hours ago, (NSW)EDarkness said:

If The Wolf didn't ignore just about every ability, have an insane amount of HP, be immune to almost everything, then I don't think folks would be all that upset by him.

How would you make him difficult, then? Because if he didn't ignore abilities, he'd be just as trivial as any other grineer grunt.

6 hours ago, (NSW)EDarkness said:

Even high level wolf dudes are worth it since they give Wolf Rep and that's way more than you'll get fighting The Wolf most of the time.

I mean, he does have fugitives with him, defeating him lets you capture them and get rep.

6 hours ago, (NSW)EDarkness said:

Why his buddies have to be invincible I'll never know.  

To make the fight more interesting. The Wolf does almost no damage and ignores abilities, which makes him pretty boring to fight. The fugitives are his opposite, they deal huge damage and can't be killed but can be CCed.

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6 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Wolf doesn't harass anyone. He has a fixed spawn rate, and that's all that it does, follow the rules of RNG. Cognitive bias means that for people who are unprepared his spawn seems to be major event and they blame it on being unprepared. That's not how this works. 

07733f6149.jpg
 

Are you serious right now? The whole thread is the majority of people complaining about how he shows up unannounced when they're completely caught off guard.

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I still just wish he'd show up for me. I'm ready to murder him at this point but he never shows up. I'm tired of seeing everyone complaining that he's all over their games, harassing them at all hours, while I'm still doubting he actually exists.

Edit: I'd rather he was a node that you got keys for by capturing the fugitives, at least that way I'd get to see him.

Edited by (NSW)Henalie
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2 hours ago, (PS4)ErydisTheLucario said:

You do realize that most times when the wolf does spawn that people are lvling weapons  or frames right?

so, people are only ever Leveling Equipment, and in a way that leaves them completely unprepared to Kill any Enemy that is more dangerous than a Lancer?
i'm pretty sure that is not quite an accurate representation of what everybody spends all of their time doing. especially with all of their Equipment that they have Equipped.

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3 hours ago, Zilchy said:

Rubico prime modded for crit and radiation. It wrecks him in a few clips.

No it doesn't.... unless you have non standard mods.

5 minutes ago, taiiat said:

so, people are only ever Leveling Equipment, and in a way that leaves them completely unprepared to Kill any Enemy that is more dangerous than a Lancer?

Yep... pretty much....  one time the Wolf showed up and it took 20 Minutes to kill him as usual and after we got rid of him we were right back to two shotting Noxes and Hyeka masters... 

 

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2 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

Yep... pretty much....  one time the Wolf showed up and it took 20 Minutes to kill him as usual and after we got rid of him we were right back to two shotting Noxes and Hyeka masters...

Last time I met him I was levelling equipment and what I did was...

On 2019-04-21 at 7:54 PM, Kontrollo said:

I shoot him.

Well not exactly, it was a Kuva Flood and in that case I was just using Exalted Blade. When next time I use another Warframe while levelling things it'll be something else I guess.

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On 2019-04-21 at 7:15 PM, Tokomi_ said:

Who aborts when the wolf appears in a mission?

Good question, i would like to answer yo........... if only i had the honor to meet him at least once!!! 

 

"FFS"                                                                                                                     -TheKurtiStryke 2019

Edited by TheKurtiStryke
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I wouldn't abort for him but I never jump for joy. I just roll my eyes and prepare for some "content".

I was doing an Invasion - Capture(solo) and he showed up. Of course, I'm using all unfinished gear. Stradavar and Tipedo Prime said "No thanks". I have my Rattleguts with infinite ammo, though. That arcane is pretty nice. At about ~300 a shot, it took about 6~7m to shoot him to death. This is after my Kavat ate his armor. He dropped nothing but a sweet silver mod. Oh, the satisfaction! I think he was about level 45. His HP based on a level calculator is around 45k. Given the variables this seems rather accurate. Not absurd but still pretty chunky. This of course also assumes there are no other modifiers in play.

Seeing him teleport through lockers like Akuma is just hysterical. He's some seriously high-skill Grineer. It's interesting but seems out of flavor for this kind of enemy.

My biggest issues with him are that he ignores a lot of the game's mechanics(like status) and demands a purpose-built weapon of some sort. Instead of choosing 3 of my weapons, I only really have a choice of 2 unless I want to waste my time or skip this random encounter entirely. Also, in my situation, I build and use status weapons almost entirely. I don't care for crit all that much. My arsenal for fighting this piece of crap is rather limited.

I like the idea of this character but it needs better implementation. There are no environmental mechanics. Nothing creative. It's just a huge HP bar. Some people are okay with that and it's fine I guess.

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An Arca Plasmor built for radiation melts him. I've killed him with a Lex Prime when I got caught levelling a primary (took a lot of bullets but was do-able) that only has 2 forma in it. Never go unprepared, always have multiple damage types and at least one weapon capable of dishing out punishment. Stalker and the Sentients taught us that. We know he is pretty much status immune so plan ahead.

Spoiler

Anyone tried using their operator on him? Mine is very weedy but shooting him in the back while he wailed on my invincible frame was boring but far from dangerous.

As with Stalker and the other assassins there has to be something in the game that will make even our OP frames cower in fear. It isn't as if you fail the mission if you just let him/them kill you either.

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2 hours ago, Lutesque said:

No it doesn't.... unless you have non standard mods.

Yes it does, it's the ideal weapon, non-slash, high crit multiplier, high base damage. I like proving you wrong with videos Lutesque cos then you've got nothing so here's a couple of a useless rubico prime in action vs Wolf

As you can see, totally ineffective. That first one he is level 65 btw.

Edited by Zilchy
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4 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

How would you make him difficult, then? Because if he didn't ignore abilities, he'd be just as trivial as any other grineer grunt.

First of all, make him vulnerable to status procs. But then add this: adaptative armour like sentients and stalker. An enrage mode where for every proc afflicting him, he'll gain X% damage and Y% speed. On top of that, make the gremlins vulnerable again and every time you capture one, he'll gain a berserker buff with a 10% more damage. And also make him vulnerable to warframe abilities but with decreasing effects on him every time you use one. On top of that, make him able to use a stomp when you try to melee him as other grineer heavy units do. Now you have a boss that provides a real challenge instead of being just a boring bullet sponge.

 

EDIT: A bullet sponge is not a challenge to anyone except the fans of huge numbers. And even then, it's not a real challenge, it's just a target where you can show the rest how much damage you do. But it's actually more an annoyance than anything else.

Edited by (NSW)Belaptir
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if there were some interesting or clever mechanics behind him many would probably not be as fussed, but nope, he is just a boring bullet sponge (even seemingly with armor stripped) and his little minions are beyond mere annoyances unless you are lucky to have a limbo banishing them while you deal with the wolf...... who lets be real, will probably drop you a nice "Deep Freeze" mod for your troubles.

It's just more "wth were you thinking" type of additions that you wonder if some rival company dev entered their building and added the wolf as a form of corporate sabotage or out of season april fools.

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18 minutes ago, (NSW)Belaptir said:

First of all, make him vulnerable to status procs. But then add this: adaptative armour like sentients and stalker.

That's just a bullet sponge with extra steps.

18 minutes ago, (NSW)Belaptir said:

An enrage mode where for every proc afflicting him, he'll gain X% damage and Y% speed.

That's a terrible idea, since you can't decide to stop dealing procs. You might as well just make his stats go up on a timer. People are already complaining that you need to run a specialized loadout at all times to have a shot at killing him, with this you'd have to specialize even more (i.e. one gun to deal just the right amount of procs, then switch to a different gun to actually deal damage without causing procs).

19 minutes ago, (NSW)Belaptir said:

On top of that, make the gremlins vulnerable again and every time you capture one, he'll gain a berserker buff with a 10% more damage.

That encourages the exact same method of engagement we use now, i.e. just CC the flunkies and lure the Wolf away from them. Again, same thing we have now with extra steps.

21 minutes ago, (NSW)Belaptir said:

And also make him vulnerable to warframe abilities but with decreasing effects on him every time you use one.

Because gameplay mechanics being inconsistent is good game design?

27 minutes ago, (NSW)Belaptir said:

On top of that, make him able to use a stomp when you try to melee him as other grineer heavy units do.

That adds annoyance, not challenge. It's just a brief pause in the fight where neither of us can do anything, locked into our respective animations (knockdown and stomp).

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11 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

That's just a bullet sponge with extra steps.

You can reset adaptative armor with spoiler mode.

11 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

That's a terrible idea, since you can't decide to stop dealing procs. You might as well just make his stats go up on a timer. People are already complaining that you need to run a specialized loadout at all times to have a shot at killing him, with this you'd have to specialize even more (i.e. one gun to deal just the right amount of procs, then switch to a different gun to actually deal damage without causing procs).

You asked how to make him difficult. I'm giving you options for raising his difficulty (or keeping it) without making him a bullet sponge. Damage reduction+huge hp pool is not difficult, is jsut annoyance. You want an end game boss or just another generic bullet sponge who poses no threat to anything except your patience?

11 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

That encourages the exact same method of engagement we use now, i.e. just CC the flunkies and lure the Wolf away from them. Again, same thing we have now with extra steps. 

This give you options. You can kill the gremlings to avoid their annoyance (with a downside for you) or you can CC. It will only give options to the players so they can play however they want.

 

11 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

Because gameplay mechanics being inconsistent is good game design?

Exactly how is inconsistent to develop a resistance to a skill the more you use it on a single enemy? There are many games which do this with their bosses. No inconsistency at all, it's just becoming resistant to something.

 

11 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

That adds annoyance, not challenge. It's just a brief pause in the fight where neither of us can do anything, locked into our respective animations (knockdown and stomp).

So, to make it clear, your idea of challenge is what? Having a bullet sponge that comes down without any effort? The wolf right now is just that. A bullet sponge whose difficulty is just determined for the rad-crit build you are running on. The only variable on that fight is how long will it take for you to kill him. Nothing else. Really.

The only people who have problems to kill him are the ones who for one reason or another are not prepared. And for that, we could argue that the wolf, with such a huge hp and armour shouldn't appear in certain nodes, but that's a completely different matter to discuss. You wanted difficult, I gave you difficulty. However, for your comment, seems that you just want a bullet sponge that "seems" difficult but actually poses no threat.

Edited by (NSW)Belaptir
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10 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Wolf doesn't harass anyone. He has a fixed spawn rate, and that's all that it does, follow the rules of RNG. Cognitive bias means that for people who are unprepared his spawn seems to be major event and they blame it on being unprepared. That's not how this works. 

oh yeah he has a 6% spawn rate like the many many many times where i showed up with a fully geared chroma armed to the teeth in some random mission only to attempt to level a hydroid prime later and that guy end up showing up catching me off guard. yeah yeah truly fixed spawn rate.  in matter of fact stalker visited on another run of me leveling hydroid. and i think one more wolf.

isn't the whole bit of attracting or increasing the dang spawn rate of wolf or stalker having unleveled gear in the dang system to increase their spawn rate? aka a way someone gets caught unprepared.

Edited by maddragonmaster
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21 minutes ago, (NSW)Belaptir said:

You can reset adaptative armor with spoiler mode.

So what's the point? Enforcing a pause in the fight while you do that? I don't see how that makes it more challenging or more fun.

21 minutes ago, (NSW)Belaptir said:

You asked how to make him difficult. I'm giving you options for raising his difficulty (or keeping it) without making him a bullet sponge. Damage reduction+huge hp pool is not difficult, is jsut annoyance. You want an end game boss or just another generic bullet sponge who poses no threat to anything except your patience?

Given that by far the most difficult part of the Wolf fight is actually getting him to spawn, out of the options you presented I'd prefer a toothless bullet sponge. The last thing I want is for the Wolf to become Stalker 2.0 and one-shot me with some instant invisible BS. If we were able to fight him whenever we wanted and however often we wanted, then yes, he should be more dangerous than he currently is. But that change was not part of your proposal.

21 minutes ago, (NSW)Belaptir said:

This give you options. You can kill the gremlings to avoid their annoyance (with a downside for you) or you can CC. It will only give options to the players so they can play however they want.

Technically yes, it gives options, except one is so far superior that the others are not even worth considering. Much like, say, the Rifle Aptitude mod. Yes, technically you could put it on for +15% extra status chance instead of a 60/60 mod, but why would you? Adding more options is not good unless they're worthwhile options.

21 minutes ago, (NSW)Belaptir said:

Exactly how is inconsistent to develop a resistance to a skill the more you use it on a single enemy? There are many games which do this with their bosses. No inconsistency at all, it's just becoming resistant to something.

It's inconsistent because the effect is different every time you use the ability, obviously. What it amounts to is a simple DPS check, since you have to kill the boss before your abilities become ineffective. And guess what, being a bullet sponge already is a DPS check. So again you're coming up with needlessly complicated ways to achieve what we already have.

21 minutes ago, (NSW)Belaptir said:

So, to make it clear, your idea of challenge is what?

A Dark Souls boss, with powerful but slow and clearly telegraphed attacks. The closest thing WF has to that is Lephantis/Hemocyte. The Wolf is certainly much better in this respect than, say, the Stalker, but there's still room for improvement. What's needed is a change to his animations and attack patterns, not his stats. Well, maybe buff the damage a bit.

21 minutes ago, (NSW)Belaptir said:

You wanted difficult, I gave you difficulty.

No, you gave me annoyance.

Edited by SordidDreams
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10 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

First because that brick wall only has a 6% maximum chance of showing up in level 20+ missions. So the vast majority of the time, it's not preventing anyone from doing anything no matter how much you want to try passing off that acorn as a piece of the sky that fell on your head.

and if he is spawning around 20+ levels shouldn't he be made manageable in THAT level?  i mean just imagine running a level 20 mission minding your business and the wolf comes with a level 60-85 and howls and freight trains you then disappear. although if i remember when i was in that one party i was leveling hydroid prime in that wolf persisted after killing i think a few players a few times. so yeah. wolf is harassing players that are busy leveling.

Edited by maddragonmaster
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2 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

So what's the point? Enforcing a pause in the fight while you do that? I don't see how that makes it more challenging or more fun.

It makes you not having to just stand in front of him doing nothing but shoot. Which is what we do right now. Shoot, shoot, ocassional evading, shoot, shoot. Rinse and repeat.

 

3 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

Given that by far the most difficult part of the Wolf fight is actually getting him to spawn, out of the options you presented I'd prefer a toothless bullet sponge. The last thing I want is for the Wolf to become Stalker 2.0 and one-shot me with some instant invisible BS.

This is another completely different matter, as I said before. The difficulty and the spawn are two different things to discuss. If you want to discuss about the spawning, then I agree with you in that as it is right now is pure crap. But we weren't talking about the spawning, weren't we?

4 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

Technically yes, it gives options, except one is so far superior that the others are not even worth considering. Much like, say, the Rifle Aptitude mod. Yes, technically you could put it on for +15% extra status chance instead of a 60/60 mod, but why would you? Adding more options is not good unless they're worthwhile options.

To many players, the gremlings are a bigger threat than the harmless wolf. They can destroy excavators or cryopods, they can oneshot you... Giving the players the option to eliminate this thread in exchange of the wolf becoming stronger would be a nice option to have in missions where they are that annoying.

5 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

It's inconsistent because the effect is different every time you use the ability, obviously. What it amounts to is a simple DPS check, since you have to kill the boss before your abilities become ineffective. And guess what, being a bullet sponge already is a DPS check. So again you're coming up with needlessly complicated ways to achieve what we already have.

Again, this have been used in a lot of games already and I never saw anyone talking about inconsistency. If a skill lasts for, say, 20 seconds the first time you use it and every time after that one, it lasts for a 25% less, there is no inconsistency at all. After a given time, the resistance resets, encouraging you to not spam an ability on him.

7 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

A Dark Souls boss, with powerful but slow and clearly telegraphed attacks. The closest thing WF has to that is Lephantis/Hemocyte. The Wolf is certainly much better in this respect than, say, the Stalker, but there's still room for improvement. What's needed is a change to his animations and attack patterns, not his stats. Well, maybe buff the damage a bit.

So, basically, what we have now. A boss that can be fought while standing still and shooting. Only thing that wolf does better than the stalker is having a higher hp pool and hence taking longer to die. That and having 3 gremlings that can oneshot you with the molotovs (forcing you to evade every now and  then).

11 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

No, you gave me annoying.

Again, I think your idea of difficulty is just a boss where you don't have to do anything, just shoot as fast as you can to kill him fast. How that provides a challenge, I don't know.

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