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Acersecomic

Feedback on Wolf of Saturn Six

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33 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Not a high bar you're setting there.

DE set that bar with the rest of the bosses.

33 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Invading bosses shouldn't require this degree of preparation because it makes all other preparation useless against it

That's what I said earlier, I'm glad you agree.

27 minutes ago, (NSW)Belaptir said:

So, again, confirming that difficulty for you menas bigger numbers, hence we need frames that just hit harder. Sure man, whatever. 

That's not what I said at all, but it's to the first time in this conversation that you've replied to something you imagined I said rather than to what I actually said. I'm just going to skip these in the future, if you don't see a reply to something you said, just imagine the preceding sentence there.

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2 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

That's not what I said at all, but it's to the first time in this conversation that you've replied to something you imagined I said rather than to what I actually said. I'm just going to skip these in the future, if you don't see a reply to something you said, just imagine the previous sentence. 

Yeah, I agree with you. It's better if you skip these in future. As you skipped the rest of things that, apparently, you don't want to answer to. Good luck expecting this game to be the new DS-like. You'll need it.

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1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

You're on page 16. Even on this page is a suggestion from me for how we can tweak it to make his arrivals more reliable. It's something that I have spoken about repeatedly. 

But you go ahead and say that I'm hiding behind numbers, when 'numbers' are exactly how RNG works. It's actually the 'N' in RNG. But some people don't understand how probability works and would rather blame a strawman that they create to excuse their failures, than own up to not understanding how the system works:

The wolf only shows up if you aren't ready.The wolf never shows up if you are ready, despite the fact that many people are ready when they meet him. 

The wolf can't be killed so everyone should just abort, despite the fact that many people kill him. 

You can only deal damage if you are wearing the meta and have this one combination of gear that most people don't have, despite the fact that we have lots of options for killing him. 

Just because you are able to kill him with your rivens and primed mods, doesn't mean everyone can, despite the fact that you can show up without rivens or primed mods and kill him. 

Dealing even close to 50% of the damage you're doing is impossible for the majority of people because we demand to only take bad gear and still be able to kill him quickly, despite the fact that nothing works like that. 

It's not acceptable that he spawns according to RNG unless I decide that it seems random enough, in fact th the Stalker is also cheating, despite the fact that RNG is supposed to be random

You don't have valid arguments against the things we've said, because we're on a thread about his spawn rate and you don't support whatever we're saying and don't make any suggestions for improvements, despite the fact that there's one just above something I quoted in a previous post on this page. 

 

So.... Which one of those do you feel works today? Because they're all still demonstrably wrong. 

then how did we get to arguing about this whole mess? this whole arguement was over a week long how am i going to remember any suggestions you made when i am currently in a fowl mood over hearing someone saying "it's not DE's fault that wolf is taking for ever to kill. it's YOUR fault " bit or how ever it goes my mind tends to magnify a few things when i am frustrated. we were so busy arguing about wolf spawning when people get unprepared and you saying its the unprepared fault  that they get pestered by wolf.

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1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

You're on page 16. Even on this page is a suggestion from me for how we can tweak it to make his arrivals more reliable. It's something that I have spoken about repeatedly. 

But you go ahead and say that I'm hiding behind numbers, when 'numbers' are exactly how RNG works. It's actually the 'N' in RNG. But some people don't understand how probability works and would rather blame a strawman that they create to excuse their failures, than own up to not understanding how the system works:

The wolf only shows up if you aren't ready.The wolf never shows up if you are ready, despite the fact that many people are ready when they meet him. 

The wolf can't be killed so everyone should just abort, despite the fact that many people kill him. 

You can only deal damage if you are wearing the meta and have this one combination of gear that most people don't have, despite the fact that we have lots of options for killing him. 

Just because you are able to kill him with your rivens and primed mods, doesn't mean everyone can, despite the fact that you can show up without rivens or primed mods and kill him. 

Dealing even close to 50% of the damage you're doing is impossible for the majority of people because we demand to only take bad gear and still be able to kill him quickly, despite the fact that nothing works like that. 

It's not acceptable that he spawns according to RNG unless I decide that it seems random enough, in fact th the Stalker is also cheating, despite the fact that RNG is supposed to be random

You don't have valid arguments against the things we've said, because we're on a thread about his spawn rate and you don't support whatever we're saying and don't make any suggestions for improvements, despite the fact that there's one just above something I quoted in a previous post on this page. 

 

So.... Which one of those do you feel works today? Because they're all still demonstrably wrong. 

plus half of the reason this has carried so long is because some of us felt insulted with the bit "oh so your where unprepared? it was your fault, game was working fine." and then you preceded with what i felt like a was some way of insulting our intelligence when we fully know whats going on.

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5 hours ago, Zilchy said:

Yes it does, it's the ideal weapon, non-slash, high crit multiplier, high base damage.

i think uh.... Lanka would be more ""ideal"", but i'm sure both do just fine.

(since Lanka does just fine when i happen to have it with me, and i prefer Lanka overall for a Sniper Rifle too. but i don't usually have it on me since there's a lot of Weapons in the game, and you know the drill about Archgun)

 

- - - - - 

2 hours ago, Aldain said:

That's because he has natural damage resistance not bound to his armor pool, removing it doesn't make his DR zero like some would have you believe.

 

1 hour ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

Yeah, his "health" is just, mechanically, another layer of Alloy Armor if I remember rightly. One you can't strip. 

he has special Damage Reduction, like a lot of Bosses have. #hiddenmechanics

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1 hour ago, maddragonmaster said:

then how did we get to arguing about this whole mess? this whole arguement was over a week long how am i going to remember any suggestions you made when i am currently in a fowl mood over hearing someone saying "it's not DE's fault that wolf is taking for ever to kill. it's YOUR fault " bit or how ever it goes my mind tends to magnify a few things when i am frustrated. we were so busy arguing about wolf spawning when people get unprepared and you saying its the unprepared fault  that they get pestered by wolf.

Because while I agree that the spawn rate and drop table can be improved, I don't agree with you on the wolf being impossible to kill for rather obvious reasons. I also reject all claims that we need a complete loadouts filled with primed mods, or must take only the meta to succeed. I also am not going to pander to anyone trying to blame their failures on the RNG plotting to only attack when everyone is unprepared. 

And yes, if the wolf is taking forever to kill, you need to assign a significant portion of the blame on the players in your squad. 

 

And again let's make sure that we are crystal clear on this, the wolf's spawn rate dgaf whether you are prepared or not. His spans are randomized events. Cognitive bias is making you think that he spawns when you are unprepared, because you were unprepared when he spawned. Your cognitive bias is wrong. 

56 minutes ago, maddragonmaster said:

plus half of the reason this has carried so long is because some of us felt insulted with the bit "oh so your where unprepared? it was your fault, game was working fine." and then you preceded with what i felt like a was some way of insulting our intelligence when we fully know whats going on.

Whose fault is it that you were unprepared? Why didn't you take appropriate weapons? Why didn't you level up at least part way in the sanctuary? Why didn't you make use of the environment to deal with him? Why didn't any of your squad carry anything that could have dealt with him? 

If you think that pointing out that you chose to go in unprepared, when that's exactly what you did, is insulting then you have a really bad idea of what the word insulting means. And here's a thing, if you think that you know fully well what's going on and are blaming the RNG for your failures, claiming that it's not random and is plotting against you, then it's not a stretch to see why you would think that someone is insulting you when they are pointing out that you just weren't prepared when you should have been. 

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Il y a 23 heures, HawtFyst a dit :

So my choice is to either skip important content to the story and the possibility of a sweet mask or weapon piece

You can definitely survive that.

As i said most players i was playing with were pretty much carried when we faced him so you only need to not play alone, or just get some plat to buy his terrible hammer (or even wait DE to implement a farmable Wolf next).

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Hey man ive had this exact problem. i started farming him last Thursday and found him about 5 times between thurs and fri. i have probably logged about 15 + hrs of just straight mission farming since then and havent seen him once

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Some stuff I want to chip in and say (because I thought it was a glitch but it stayed around). DE is aware of certain maps being "leveling maps". I have found today that groups are coming into these maps (2-3 people) on full leveled warframes, making your purchase of affinity boosters redundant, and ripping the map apart trying to force spawn wolf. They totally waste your time (as mostly people are leveling weapons) because they have heard "wolf spawns on hydron". To me, that makes no sense. I think as a map, these leveling locations see more "player time" so more players talk about seeing him there. But I have seen wolf in survivals on Void just as much as in Helene or Hydron. Wolf is not like the wolves, Fugatives Farm, that can be forced. I have no problem trading for wolf parts etc, but I have a huge problem with him ruining actual play by forcing him onto people with unleveled gear and warframes. I have spend 10 minutes on multiple occassions, with a full team of people on hydron or helene just bashing into him trying to kill him because everyone has everything unleveled. Its very frustrating and makes you hate those maps unneccessarily. If warframe is not going to give you LEVELING LOCATIONS within technical names, please respect that the players find these locations and need them like they would in any game. If you are making people level things, and not giving specific locations mapped out (which is fine), please do not throw high level bosses into it "for kicks" knowing we cant kill them (except after 10-20 minutes of trying, to then mostly just get mods as rewards).

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9 hours ago, Zilchy said:

As you can see, totally ineffective. That first one he is level 65 btw.

That explains it...

Also:

9 hours ago, Zilchy said:

Yes it does, it's the ideal weapon, non-slash, high crit multiplier, high base damage. 

This is just wrong.  Rubico Prime's Base damage merely okay.... actually quite rubbish compared to the Lanka.

 

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57 minutes ago, Sirenwatcher said:

Some stuff I want to chip in and say (because I thought it was a glitch but it stayed around). DE is aware of certain maps being "leveling maps". I have found today that groups are coming into these maps (2-3 people) on full leveled warframes, making your purchase of affinity boosters redundant, and ripping the map apart trying to force spawn wolf. They totally waste your time (as mostly people are leveling weapons) because they have heard "wolf spawns on hydron". To me, that makes no sense. I think as a map, these leveling locations see more "player time" so more players talk about seeing him there. But I have seen wolf in survivals on Void just as much as in Helene or Hydron. Wolf is not like the wolves, Fugatives Farm, that can be forced. I have no problem trading for wolf parts etc, but I have a huge problem with him ruining actual play by forcing him onto people with unleveled gear and warframes. I have spend 10 minutes on multiple occassions, with a full team of people on hydron or helene just bashing into him trying to kill him because everyone has everything unleveled. Its very frustrating and makes you hate those maps unneccessarily. If warframe is not going to give you LEVELING LOCATIONS within technical names, please respect that the players find these locations and need them like they would in any game. If you are making people level things, and not giving specific locations mapped out (which is fine), please do not throw high level bosses into it "for kicks" knowing we cant kill them (except after 10-20 minutes of trying, to then mostly just get mods as rewards).

i can see where your coming from and i know that someones going to chime in with "why don't you just run sanctuary onslaught?"  but i'll save their time by saying some people have trouble running onslaughts for exp because for some reason their pc or internet connection causes a fit and crashes the game.  so its much more safer running regular missions rather then onlsaught. i personally had a friend state that he was unable to use  onslaught for leveling and right now he is busy trying to get his labtop fixed. plus i know some people don't really like onslaught missions. and personally i am in that mood of hating onslaughts ever since they put that blazing step ephemera as a 8 wave reward for their eso. which made me personally dislike eso.

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4 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Because while I agree that the spawn rate and drop table can be improved, I don't agree with you on the wolf being impossible to kill for rather obvious reasons. I also reject all claims that we need a complete loadouts filled with primed mods, or must take only the meta to succeed. I also am not going to pander to anyone trying to blame their failures on the RNG plotting to only attack when everyone is unprepared. 

And yes, if the wolf is taking forever to kill, you need to assign a significant portion of the blame on the players in your squad. 

 

And again let's make sure that we are crystal clear on this, the wolf's spawn rate dgaf whether you are prepared or not. His spans are randomized events. Cognitive bias is making you think that he spawns when you are unprepared, because you were unprepared when he spawned. Your cognitive bias is wrong. 

Whose fault is it that you were unprepared? Why didn't you take appropriate weapons? Why didn't you level up at least part way in the sanctuary? Why didn't you make use of the environment to deal with him? Why didn't any of your squad carry anything that could have dealt with him? 

If you think that pointing out that you chose to go in unprepared, when that's exactly what you did, is insulting then you have a really bad idea of what the word insulting means. And here's a thing, if you think that you know fully well what's going on and are blaming the RNG for your failures, claiming that it's not random and is plotting against you, then it's not a stretch to see why you would think that someone is insulting you when they are pointing out that you just weren't prepared when you should have been. 

well for one i always bring a tigris prime around  with a mix of damage and status while i level my secondary, melee, and warframe. yet even though i use corrosive on it it still takes for ever to drop his heath when i had the chances of meeting him. and  those randomized events showing up a lot when people have unleveled stuff seems rather convincing since the majority of warframes community states that these guys love jumping in on them and then ignoring them when they run dozens upon dozens of runs with their good gear.

anyways lets either just agree to disagree or agree that wolf and to an extent the rest of the assassins system needs some work. like that one idea i suggested somewhere.  where that you accumulate a bounty on your head that causes these guys to seek you more. like i don't know have extra kills of bosses increase spawn chances for stalker. keep wolfs buddys around and have your capturing or killing of these guys tick off wolf to where it is more likely show up. 

i would be more accepting of it being my fault rather then some uncontrolled and very slim chances  causing myself to slip up if it was done this way.

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17 hours ago, AKTKWNG said:

I've seen the opposite happen: people aborting after 5 minutes when the wolf doesn't show up, even while the mission is still ongoing (stuff like wave 4 of hydron)

Anyone that does that is a major arse...

If he hasnt appeared by the 5 minute mark i just complete the mission if its a pug, thing is if your trying to farm him most if not ALL missions should basically last at max the 5 minutes normally. 5 wave of defense is roughly 5 minutes in a group, a Sedna exterminate or spy mission solo is basically 5 minutes if you arent mega aoe rushing it... group missions tend to go alot quicker but i tend to deliberately slow down to eek out as much time as possible in any pubs im in (although you do occasionally get that lol i kill everything instantly volt or equinox that doesnt give a damn).

I aim for finishing the mission around the 4:30 minute mark usually and it tends to be like most of the time solo or in a pub (sans god damn sayrns, volts or equinoxs speed running a pub).

 

Got rid of my G3 mark just now so ill hope for maybe a increased spawn chance since his wont be competing with some other assassins.

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1 hour ago, Lutesque said:

That explains it...

Also:

This is just wrong.  Rubico Prime's Base damage merely okay.... actually quite rubbish compared to the Lanka.

 

It's plenty high enough. That combined with the high crit multiplier and how fast it is to build sniper combo on rubico make it very suited to the task. Lanka is probably very good too but the charge rate is more cumbersome.

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5 hours ago, taiiat said:

i think uh.... Lanka would be more ""ideal"", but i'm sure both do just fine.

You're probably correct on that I just don't like the charge rate 🙂

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I have a full time job and a life outside of warframe and Im rank 32 as of last week and ONLY completed the tasks i wanted... as a matter of fact, I rarely did the elite missions.

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1 hour ago, Zilchy said:

It's plenty high enough. That combined with the high crit multiplier and how fast it is to build sniper combo on rubico make it very suited to the task. Lanka is probably very good too but the charge rate is more cumbersome.

No it isn't....

 

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I think it could be salvaged if they address how this replaced alerts but not really. 

 

1. If this is to replace alerts you need to add some alert rewards on top of that. At the very least a small cache of resources you are rewarded for completing a challenge. I don't need them considering how far along I am but it doesn't mean new players don't survive off them like I did when I first started. Either that or allow 1 wolf point to be traded for such and such a resource but I think it would be better if they got the resource for the challenge itself over having to spent what they will likely need to go towards catalysts and such.

2. If this is to replace alerts, stop with challenges a new player can't possibly compete.

3. Challenges that just are insulting to the time you have. 60 minute survival? What happened to all that bite sized content talk? It's not only an insult to your time but the 5000 standing reward? That's it? Also the challenges that can proven to be broken because the mission bugs out so you waste all your time for nothing.

4. Challenges that involve friends. If you must, change it from friends/clan to "squad" meaning a random pug and you can complete the mission. Me personally? I don't like talking to kids, I know not only kids play this game but I run into a lot of kids or people who seem like they can't type in English so I bypass all of that when I can. I'm in a clan that's pretty much dead but I'm so far ahead when it comes to resources that I just drop by the dojo and create everything myself and go about my business and don't interact with anyone. I just like to play my game, I don't have a lot of time to go through the headaches involved. I grouped up randomly once to do the profit taker challenge and soon as we get to orb valis someone in the group is asking about what the archwing weapon launcher thing is and I just face palmed and took them 10 minutes to figure out the guy needed to leave. Anyway just axe that part of the challenge, they add nothing.

5. The wolf can soak up way too much damage for a random enemy you have no control of the spawn rate of. It's not a challenge, whenever I've encountered him in pugs at a high level we're all just wasting so much time chipping away at its health, to the point new players think there is some sort of gimmick when it's just a mindless shoot him until he drops game. I know you don't want him as easy as the stalker but come on now.

6. I have over 100 nitain and as the system is now.. I don't know if it can be acquired readily enough for new players compared to how it used to be. Sure it was random if you kept an eye out when you were on you could get them over time. Now? Ehh. This isn't just about nitain though but I think.. there is some good with how everything is now but I think you're pushing too much for people to grind for something that they could have acquired so easily in the past that I see it becoming an issue.. I dunno. If I was a new player I'd personally be very turned off by how it is structured.

7. Last thing.. if I signed in randomly to check warframe out and came in while this season was ending. I'd be so disheartened that I'd probably never sign back in. I mean, unless you have a good plan for those who can't acquire everything because they were late for the game, I don't know this sits well for them. It's one thing to miss an event but another for something that is ongoing and you kind of see the rewards you can't possibly get now and maybe to no fault of your own but this can be fixed I guess by allowing the items such as the armor and he mods popping up at random to be purchased via points? Maybe, I dunno. I'm just wondering how you will deal with this because I'd be so salty if I signed in during this and couldn't get the armor or the umbra forma or whatever, just my two cents.

IMO, if all the challenges were bland things you could complete without even noticing it would be for the best. IE. Kill ____ enemy Kill enemies using ___ element. Bullet Jump ____, no 60 minute survival nonsense. I think there are enough tasks in the game that adding another reaches the point where you give us stuff to do that isn't adding to the game for us and we start to resent it. I can only speak for myself personally but listen, I've done silver grove, I have no more need to scan for stuff then make the thing to do the thing blah blah. I did it once, got it over with so I didn't have to do it again. What purpose does it serve to make someone like me do that all over again?  What good does it serve me doing 8 of the easiest plain bounties if I'm just sick of that map and don't want to go there anymore? It kind of makes me not want to play at all. That's just my personal take on the matter. If by the end of the week I check my list and I've done all the tasks organically just by playing I think the system would be better overall and if you want to make challenges so you can be ahead I think that's fine but meh, 5000 standing for 60 minutes of my time? Come on.

 

Oh btw, don't be giving us a reward of 3 forma again then have a challenge telling us to use it, that's bad form and it ends up not being a reward at all.

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On 2019-04-24 at 12:00 AM, maddragonmaster said:

well for one i always bring a tigris prime around  with a mix of damage and status while i level my secondary, melee, and warframe. yet even though i use corrosive on it it still takes for ever to drop his heath when i had the chances of meeting him.

1) He has alloy armour for the both armour and health. 

2) Alloy armour has specific weakness against radiation (very weak), cold (a little weak) and puncture damage (a little weak). It's very strong against slash, electric and magnetic. Your corrosive effects are not going to do anywhere near as much damage as the same amount of radiation damage, and your tigris does 80% of its base damage as slash. Any slash damage that is applied will have very little effect on him. 

3) Because of his being a boss, he's immune to status effects. Any status damage that you are doing is wasted. 

4) This is exactly why everyone keeps saying high crit, radiation damage

 

So congratulations, you have successfully identified multiple things that you have been doing that would make the fight far more difficult than it should be. 😐

On 2019-04-24 at 12:00 AM, maddragonmaster said:

and  those randomized events showing up a lot when people have unleveled stuff seems rather convincing since the majority of warframes community states that these guys love jumping in on them and then ignoring them when they run dozens upon dozens of runs with their good gear.

Cognitive bias. The number of people who agee with them because they don't realise why what they're saying is wrong is large.

On 2019-04-24 at 12:00 AM, maddragonmaster said:

anyways lets either just agree to disagree or agree that wolf and to an extent the rest of the assassins system needs some work. like that one idea i suggested somewhere.  where that you accumulate a bounty on your head that causes these guys to seek you more. like i don't know have extra kills of bosses increase spawn chances for stalker. keep wolfs buddys around and have your capturing or killing of these guys tick off wolf to where it is more likely show up. 

i would be more accepting of it being my fault rather then some uncontrolled and very slim chances  causing myself to slip up if it was done this way.

Oh but I already disagree with you wrt his being difficult to kill. Perhaps if you take the advice that's been repeatedly given, you'll realise how very unprepared you have been choosing to be. 

Regarding his spawn rate, I personally want it to be increased significantly if we can't have a beacon system or other guaranteed spawn. Now... Do you want to guess how that would go down after the "setting them off" we've had so far? My guess is that good players wouldn't be too unhappy with more chances to farm the ridiculously rare drops, and unprepared players would riot ineffectively. 😂

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On 2019-04-24 at 2:35 AM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

) He has alloy armour for the both armour and health. 

2) Alloy armour has specific weakness against radiation (very weak), cold (a little weak) and puncture damage (a little weak). It's very strong against slash, electric and magnetic. Your corrosive effects are not going to do anywhere near as much damage as the same amount of radiation damage, and your tigris does 80% of its base damage as slash. Any slash damage that is applied will have very little effect on him. 

3) Because of his being a boss, he's immune to status effects. Any status damage that you are doing is wasted. 

4) This is exactly why everyone keeps saying high crit, radiation damage

 

So congratulations, you have successfully identified multiple things that you have been doing that would make the fight far more difficult than it should be. 😐

i appreciate the knowledge but i still don't appreciate how you gave the info. so just drop it.

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3 hours ago, Lutesque said:

That explains it...

Also:

This is just wrong.  Rubico Prime's Base damage merely okay.... actually quite rubbish compared to the Lanka.

 

 

25 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

No it isn't....

 

 

I'm excited to see the video you're planning on posting up for comparison. Can you please @ me when you do post it for us please? 

Thanks in advance, Tenno. 👍

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8 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

That's what I said earlier, I'm glad you agree.

I'm glad we can agree on this at least, everything else I can agree to disagree with.

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Just now, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

 

 

I'm excited to see the video you're planning on posting up for comparison. Can you please @ me when you do post it for us please? 

Thanks in advance, Tenno. 👍

Unfortunately OBS Studio has an Axe to grind with Warframe because it can't capture S#&$.

Besides you're never going to see said video anyway because A) Rubico Prime is overrated, B) The Wolf Spawns are Random and C) Whos got the time ? Definitely not me thats for sure.

If the Wolf Spawns for above level 75 then im just aborting....nothing in my Arsenal can kill it... including Rubico Prime.

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Yeah... with the sniper combo and scope bonus, it probably doesn't practically matter which sniper you use! The base stats don't matter much either with large multipliers from the combo!

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