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Acersecomic

Feedback on Wolf of Saturn Six

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11 minutes ago, DoomFruit said:

The rest of the assassins can be dealt with using this loadout or something similar. They were actually designed semi-competently. The G3 put out a lot of damage and are pretty well armoured, but you still get the choice of either radiation damage as something their armour doesn't resist well, corrosion procs to strip their armour, or slash procs to bypass it. Zanuka is very fast, has decent enough damage output and shuts off your powers, but it's also relatively fragile (armour stripping does again work here) and you can evade its attacks if you're good with your parkour. Stalker hits very hard and can potentially get a 95% resistance to absolutely everything... but you have the ability to remove those resistances with the operator, or you can stack a whole bunch of different damage types and get him before he adapts.

Sorry but I just have to say the rest of the assassins are complete rubbish. The G3 die to a light sneeze, armour? What armour? Maybe when they were level 90 in Raids, the common ones are a complete joke. Zanuka usually dies before I realised I'd killed him, he's not fragile he's made of paper. Neither of these assassins require skill or present a challenge.

And Stalker? Well you seem to have forgotten what he was like when the shadow stalker came out originally or perhaps you weren't around. Either way, his adaptive armour FORCED you into bringing a few damage types on your weapons or you'd be shooting him for ages. And I don't just mean elemental types, you were best served bringing weapons of different IPS as well. Oh and status didn't work on him. We didn't have rivens, we didn't have operators and the strongest weapon in the game for shot power was either the opticor or sancti tigris. You're looking and praising the stalker's design at what it's like now and not what it was like on release. And who's to say that in the future we won't have some easy method of destroying the wolf?

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I killed a lvl 30 Wolf with lvl15 Wukong and brand new regular Ankyros (both without potatoes) on Seimeni. It took about 4-5 minutes of non-stop hammering. All pugs, except one, ran away as soon as they saw him.

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16 minutes ago, DoomFruit said:

 No viral procs is worse than viral procs. Radiation damage is complete crap against infested ancients. Viral damage doesn't do that well either, but proccing them will mean that I only need to deal with half of their health. Radiation damage is also no use against ferrite grineer, whereas viral still gets its 1.75x multiplier regardless. Radiation has a slight penalty against shields, whereas viral is neutral.

Those ancients typically die in a single shot from my catchmoon, or a couple of shots from my pure rad arca plasmor depending on the level. (I'm not talking about hour long runs here.) 

If I'm hitting for about 100k rad damage, and they take a quarter of that, that's still out gunning your rad+viral. Dealing with half of their health half of the time is still a bigger chore than dealing with none of it because they died the first time I shot them. Same goes for shields. 

 

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Again, I explicitly built my gun for rad + viral because I want both procs. They're useful to me in actual gameplay.

Still not seeing it. 

 

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An enemy which completely ignores a large part of the game's basic combat mechanics (status effects) with an extremely weird and inconsistent health type (alloy over alloy - why is it not armour over cloned flesh like all the other grineer in a suit?) and a bullcrap always active flat out damage resistance (the signature of lazy design). Yes, that's a badly designed enemy. You not picking up on any of those issues is not my fault.

How many of the bosses shake off your status effects or ignore them completely? How many enemies have special damage reduction mechanics? Seems pretty consistent. 

Regarding why his health and armour are the same, probably so that people could build a single weapon that melts him so we wouldn't have as much whining about how difficult he is to kill. 

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Being prepared for regular missions (sorties too, my loadout serves me perfectly well there) means having the ability to confuse, knock down and halve the health of enemies all on one weapon, with armour stripping and a little slash procs (plus puncture procs, but nobody really cares about those) on the other, and having a sufficient spread of damage over my weapons that I can always pull out a damage type that any particular faction is weak to. This damage spread handles all grineer, all corpus, all infested, all void and (the operator handles) all sentients.

Yeah I've used mine in all of those conditions. Even shot holes in an eidolon because I was getting peeved that all the newbs in the squad kept dying and having to be revived. 

Also pulling out very large amounts of damage, usually trumps pulling out very small amounts, even when resistances are tallied. At least it always seems to, under normal conditions. 

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The rest of the assassins can be dealt with using this loadout or something similar. They were actually designed semi-competently. The G3 put out a lot of damage and are pretty well armoured, but you still get the choice of either radiation damage as something their armour doesn't resist well, corrosion procs to strip their armour, or slash procs to bypass it. Zanuka is very fast, has decent enough damage output and shuts off your powers, but it's also relatively fragile (armour stripping does again work here) and you can evade its attacks if you're good with your parkour. Stalker hits very hard and can potentially get a 95% resistance to absolutely everything... but you have the ability to remove those resistances with the operator, or you can stack a whole bunch of different damage types and get him before he adapts.

All of them melt. Even the Stalker. He doesn't have much chance to build resistance, neither do the bits of floatsam on Lua. 

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Wolf... has none of those options. There's no counter play, there's no thought involved, there's no test of the player's skill. It's nothing more than "rad crits or else". This is what bad design looks like. Same as the original form of nullicancer, actually - that was a case of "rapid fire, or else" (not that it's changed much in the interim).

Yes because "use the environment to your advantage against this pure melee enemy" is apparently not a thing either for some people. 

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And I know full well what I face in the game. The wolf has appeared either 4 or 5 times for me throughout the entire mission series. If he showed up every single mission, or even every two or three missions, then it might be worth considering (though this would get very old, very fast).

But he doesn't. I am not going to sacrifice utility (and I don't care what your opinion on this is, all of the procs which I've built for are incredibly useful to me) for what is, and let me state this YET AGAIN, an extremely rare occurence of a monster which drops nothing of value.

So again... There's an enemy that you are aware shows up, have faced several times, are unable to beat because of having weapons that are very weak against him (and not particularly strong against other stuff it looks like), and you choose not to prepare for him, and rather than do something about it, you've chosen to go with the "sour grapes" routine? 

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I never said that it was extremely good, only that it should be perfectly adequate seeing as how it already handles other alloy armoured grineer extremely well (kuva flood elite lancers go down in a single shot).

Oh well, if you can one-shot them, that's obviously more than enough to take on anything in the game.... Except for all the the stuff that you can't one-shot, I suppose. 

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And again, I'm not altering my loadout and removing a very useful proc for three months (I believe that this event was stated as lasting 14 weeks) just because of one poorly designed low appearance rate random ambush monster.

You need a new calendar. He'll probably only be around with the 6% spawn rate for a few more weeks. For most of the event he was a very rare spawn. 

And no problem. You're choosing not to prepare and I'm sure you will be the first to admit that if you run into him again, instead of complaining about him being hard to kill. 

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"Challenge" means that there's some level of skill required, and also implies that there is some kind of reward at the end. As has been mentioned time and time and time and time and time and time again, there is no challenge in a gigantic wall of hitpoints. There is nothing that the player can do in-game to accelerate the fight. There's no test of skill, no reward from headshots, no extra damage from dodging and shooting some lesser armoured part in his back, no varied strategies like the rest of the entire game allows. It's a gear check. A very specific gear check. Nothing more.

Being a heart surgeon requires skill and knowledge. Being an automotive mechanic requires skill and knowledge. They don't require the same skills and knowledge. 

You want to be able to cheese every single challenge in the exact same way. You don't realise that "don't aim for the head, aim for his ridiculously large weak spot instead" is rewarding for people who do the right thing for this particular fight. You are pretending that most of his strengths, (status immune, ignores warframe ability, damage reduction) are unique to the wolf and not things that we've been dealing with for a long time despite different combinations showing up all of the time. Heck you're even trying to make out that a single health-armour type makes his harder to kill when it's quite the opposite. 

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I will have nothing to do with badly designed crap like this. This is why I'd just abort the mission instantly unless he's very low level.

"If he's easy for me to kill, then I'm okay with it, but if he's hard because I don't want to prepare myself it's badly designed"? 

Sorry Tenno, that's not a great look. But you get points for honesty. 

38 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

And who's to say that in the future we won't have some easy method of destroying the wolf?

Shoot him with high crit radiation damage is pretty easy already. I'm thinking that they might need to put in "press the 'j' button to win" before everyone is satisfied. 

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lol this is why I very rarely play with randoms. It's bad enough that DE can't find the container clearly marked "fun and good mission design" but then you have these players who do stuff like this.

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I just bring my plague keewar built for crit with blood rush and condition overload with a cc, cd, and range riven.  That and my chroma and he goes down in about 30 seconds no matter how high his level is.  Having rage and gladiator finesse mods on the frame and an elevate and husk arcane on operator and u can pretty much face tank him.

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1 hour ago, Zilchy said:

Sorry but I just have to say the rest of the assassins are complete rubbish. The G3 die to a light sneeze, armour? What armour? Maybe when they were level 90 in Raids, the common ones are a complete joke. Zanuka usually dies before I realised I'd killed him, he's not fragile he's made of paper. Neither of these assassins require skill or present a challenge.

And Stalker? Well you seem to have forgotten what he was like when the shadow stalker came out originally or perhaps you weren't around. Either way, his adaptive armour FORCED you into bringing a few damage types on your weapons or you'd be shooting him for ages. And I don't just mean elemental types, you were best served bringing weapons of different IPS as well. Oh and status didn't work on him. We didn't have rivens, we didn't have operators and the strongest weapon in the game for shot power was either the opticor or sancti tigris. You're looking and praising the stalker's design at what it's like now and not what it was like on release. And who's to say that in the future we won't have some easy method of destroying the wolf?

Oh, I do remember when shadow stalker came out. He's the reason why I put my beloved Tysis away (which is still my most used secondary) in favour of a Lex Prime. And yes, I am looking at stalker's current design. It's not as if DE don't have access to their current design documents with which to base enemies off.

They might die to a light sneeze from your carefully min-maxed endgame gear, but the majority of players won't be sporting that. If something has a chance to randomly attack every single player in the game, then every single player should be able to beat them. Especially seeing as how you can choose whether the other assassins come for you (just let their deathmarks expire), but the wolf affects every single player in the game regardless of what they do.

56 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Those ancients typically die in a single shot from my catchmoon, or a couple of shots from my pure rad arca plasmor depending on the level. (I'm not talking about hour long runs here.) 

If I'm hitting for about 100k rad damage, and they take a quarter of that, that's still out gunning your rad+viral. Dealing with half of their health half of the time is still a bigger chore than dealing with none of it because they died the first time I shot them. Same goes for shields. 

 

Still not seeing it.

You don't care for viral procs. I do. I am not giving them up. Status procs make the game fun for me. If it ceases to be fun, there is no point in me spending my spare time on it.

1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

How many of the bosses shake off your status effects or ignore them completely? How many enemies have special damage reduction mechanics? Seems pretty consistent.

I never once said that this was good game design. Never mind that the bosses which do completely ignore status effects are things which have their own dedicated nodes or missions, so you can explicitly choose to fight them and build your loadout against something which you *know* will appear.

1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

All of them melt. Even the Stalker. He doesn't have much chance to build resistance, neither do the bits of floatsam on Lua.

See point about having minmaxed endgame gear above. If you've gotten to that point, everything *should* melt in front of you. Working your way up the power levels in the game ought to have some reward.

1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Yes because "use the environment to your advantage against this pure melee enemy" is apparently not a thing either for some people.

Which is utterly irrelevant when the topic is a mindless bullet sponge with exactly one way to fight it.

1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

So again... There's an enemy that you are aware shows up, have faced several times, are unable to beat because of having weapons that are very weak against him (and not particularly strong against other stuff it looks like), and you choose not to prepare for him, and rather than do something about it, you've chosen to go with the "sour grapes" routine?

Oh? Point out exactly where I said that I was unable to kill the bullet sponge.

1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Oh well, if you can one-shot them, that's obviously more than enough to take on anything in the game.... Except for all the the stuff that you can't one-shot, I suppose.

Yes, they get two or three (or perhaps ten, if I need full armour stripping) shot, once the debuff procs have made their mark. That's how I built my loadout. Debuffs (acid, viral) and enemy control (blast, radiation, cold; also electric on sentinel & melee). Either that or the slash procs from removing my enemy's armour (lesion & shattering impact) will finish them off.

1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

You need a new calendar. He'll probably only be around with the 6% spawn rate for a few more weeks. For most of the event he was a very rare spawn.

His spawning is no different for me now than it was at the start. And the next event with the next boss (possibly with another bullcrap "use this and only this and nothing else" damage gimmick, though I seriously hope not) will take a similar amount of time.

1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Being a heart surgeon requires skill and knowledge. Being an automotive mechanic requires skill and knowledge. They don't require the same skills and knowledge.

Where did I mention surgery or mechanical repairs? This is about gameplay and gameplay challenge, which involves testing your skills at the game.

1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

"If he's easy for me to kill, then I'm okay with it, but if he's hard because I don't want to prepare myself it's badly designed"? 

Sorry Tenno, that's not a great look. But you get points for honesty.

Again, you keep saying "prepare", like it's a certain thing to happen. I am not gutting my loadout and crapping on the way I like to play this game just because of a 6% chance of some random monster appearing.

To restate: 6% is not worth considering.

And yet again: SIX. PERCENT. CHANCE. OF. APPEARING.

ONE IN SEVENTEEN MISSIONS.

Because you seem to completely miss this bit. Every single time. You prepare for an exam. You prepare for the large meal which you're going to cook on the weekend. You prepare for the end of your current contract by looking for new work in advance. You prepare to fight Kril or Kela, because you're going into War or Merrow and those are their boss nodes. You pick a large range of damage types for the profit taker because you explicitly chose to start a mission to fight it. You prepare for certainties.

You do not "prepare" every single day for something which you have no idea when or even if it will happen.

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1
33 minutes ago, (PS4)Ashagin said:

I just bring my plague keewar built for crit with blood rush and condition overload with a cc, cd, and range riven.  That and my chroma and he goes down in about 30 seconds no matter how high his level is.  Having rage and gladiator finesse mods on the frame and an elevate and husk arcane on operator and u can pretty much face tank him.

correct me if I'm wrong. but isn't he immune to status procs. so CO does literally nothing.

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step 1: tell squad not to leave because youre garuda

step 2:  press 1 on his minions, stack to 25m

step 3. hold 1 until that 25m is 100m+

step 4: shoot wolf in the face

step 5: pick up your heated charge

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10 hours ago, Acersecomic said:

You know, I was taking your comment seriously up until this point and was thinking of counterarguments and why I hate Nightwave so much and why I prefered the old Alerts and why I found them more rewarding and effective but... wow man... wow... just a big efin #*!% you!

Just #*!% you. How dare you?! Aroggant little S#&$! There are things we have no choice in and things we hav to do! Life is not sunshines and daises! But games can be and they are an escape from the bullS#&$ reality. Games are fun. They have always been my place where I can go. Nightwave is a hot prod sticking into the back of my neck, putting another daadline and quota and months of wait for something I work for.

I do not enjoy Warframe since Nightwave came out.

"Nightwave is a hot prod sticking into the back of my neck, putting another daadline and quota and months of wait for something I work for."

Again, despite you calling me names: Nightwave gives you MORE time than the old system. Not less. Do explain how you managed to complete max 2h alerts in the old system instead of the current 7 day system? I'm listening.

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44 minutes ago, stormy505 said:

correct me if I'm wrong. but isn't he immune to status procs. so CO does literally nothing.

Wolf is but everything else isn't.  

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1 hour ago, DoomFruit said:

Again, you keep saying "prepare", like it's a certain thing to happen. I am not gutting my loadout and crapping on the way I like to play this game just because of a 6% chance of some random monster appearing.

To restate: 6% is not worth considering.

And yet again: SIX. PERCENT. CHANCE. OF. APPEARING.

ONE IN SEVENTEEN MISSIONS.

Because you seem to completely miss this bit. Every single time. You prepare for an exam. You prepare for the large meal which you're going to cook on the weekend. You prepare for the end of your current contract by looking for new work in advance. You prepare to fight Kril or Kela, because you're going into War or Merrow and those are their boss nodes. You pick a large range of damage types for the profit taker because you explicitly chose to start a mission to fight it. You prepare for certainties.

You do not "prepare" every single day for something which you have no idea when or even if it will happen.

Fair point, I think it's mostly the combination of unpredictable spawning and questionable loot table that makes it frustrating. If they fix this most of the complaints wouldn't exist.

That being said I think people exaggerate his tankiness and gear requirements a bit (eh, I admit he's still problematic for new players). It certainly doesn't require gutting a loadout since a high damage radiation weapon is usually good thing to have normally anyway, especially now with the ability to use archguns on foot effectively adding a weapon slot.

To each their own. I certainly don't judge people if they want to leave if he shows up. I'll fight him.

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ok to sum up what i wish would change is to have a point system with each assassin with each assassin having a specific trigger and when you constantly trigger said trigger it will increase th likeliness of them showing up. another preference would be for DE to figure out a way for them to show up in open world maps. another preference would be to just increase the spawn time window from 0-5 minutes to 0-20ish minutes for endless missions or for giggles kick out the spawn time window and just have them either spawn at any given time or when you get close to the extraction area and have extraction just locked off for a few seconds to a minute. or scratch that idea and give the assassins a music theme and have that play when its certain he will show up. but not when.

and like i said before. create a repel system where  payers can choose to pass on fighting the assassin if they don't feel like they are ready. that way we can fight them when we are ready and not when we are busy leveling stuff. that way if i know they are having a high chance of showing up i can be prepared when i want to, rather then be prepared for nothing when they don't show up.

(ps to prevent trolling. well its really hard to actually prevent it 100% but a way could be to have there be a agree ment of 3/4s of the group. for the assassin pass to work)

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14 minutes ago, RushBCyka said:

That being said I think people exaggerate his tankiness and gear requirements a bit though.

For solo Wolf, I'd say yes absolutely, for the level 75 one though seems to be designed to have 4 people shooting him with a Rad/Crit loadout, because I've run into him, kitted to kill him (as best as my MR15 self can be) and ran out of Rubico Prime ammo because my allies were doing 1/50th of the damage I was doing which I assure you was not nearly severe enough. 

I got him down to about 80% alone for the most part but that's because I didn't have the perfect Rad/crit build most people are nuking him in seconds with, I have no Primed mods, I have no Rivens, just the barest minimum effective build of what can be slotted into a Rubico Prime to have it kill Eidolon legs in 5 or so shots.

If he were a dedicated node or the Wolf functioned like the Acolytes, then it would be easier to get a like minded team of players who intend and are geared to kill him. But as long as he's invading missions at random it is going to be hard for everyone who isn't able to 3 shot things with about 2million eHP especially when most players use weapons they prefer, which to most peoples surprise isn't a Rubico/Catchmoon/Sarpa/Kavat loadout.

The Wolf's problem is that he swings to the other end of the extreme of invading bosses, he went from "goes down in seconds to everyone" (Hi Shadow Stalker) to "goes down in seconds to people who do 4 hour survivals for fun" and that is not something that should be invading individual missions.

Long story short, DE put way too much faith in a team having similar output in the Wolf's design which is why so many people avoid or ignore him, well that and as you said, his drops suck.

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on a second thought they could increase the spawns of these guys in the dark sectors. maybe tweak those dark sectors to feel more eerie  to have that tension builder work.

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5 hours ago, RushBCyka said:

I don't get the logic.

Rubico doesn't work for you, therefore it should suck for everyone.

If thats what you got out this then theres nothing I can say to change your mind.

5 hours ago, RushBCyka said:

The problem with these "most meta or useless" posts is that it can mislead and discourage newer players who don't necessarily have every weapon modded go perfection yet (speaking of, how exactly are you modding Rubico that it fails to kill WoSS efficiently?)

This exactly what happened to me... hence If Some suggests a weapon that I've tried and doesn't work for me then I will say so... if said weapon isn't working because it requires some difficult to obtain mods and arcanes then yeah... it may as well be the MK1Braton...

If it works for you... great.... Didn't work for me.

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I abort, unless I'm farming Void traces in a level 6 mission. Level 6 is about the break even point for time to kill him versus the value of killing him. I might stick around for higher level Wolves, but his invulnerable goons are too stupid a game mechanic for me to tolerate their presence.

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15 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

If thats what you got out this then theres nothing I can say to change your mind.

This exactly what happened to me... hence If Some suggests a weapon that I've tried and doesn't work for me then I will say so... if said weapon isn't working because it requires some difficult to obtain mods and arcanes then yeah... it may as well be the MK1Braton...

If it works for you... great.... Didn't work for me.

Not suggesting you to use the rubico. Some people prefer the higher damage per shot of the lanka. I specifically said both Rubico and Lanka are very good.

One has higher damage per shot, one is hitscan and shoots faster. Both have their strengths and are perfectly serviceable guns vs Wolfe (he's a bulletsponge regardless anyway). To say only the Lanka is good and Rubico is very bad, is unhelpful and quite misleading especially to people who are newer and reading the forums to learn stuff about the game.

But it seems every other thread I see you saying "X is trash" or "Y is useless" I have to wonder:

 

What do you consider good in this game?

 

 

 

Also don't be hatin' on the Braton. 

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47 minutes ago, maddragonmaster said:

on a second thought they could increase the spawns of these guys in the dark sectors. maybe tweak those dark sectors to feel more eerie  to have that tension builder work.

I like that idea.  In fact to expand upon it, how about special assassins that are genuinely challenging to fight that will only show up in dark sectors?  That'd be pretty cool, like an infested stalker, infested zanuka, infested g3 or just something new and monstrous to match all dark sectors only having infested.

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7 minutes ago, Konachibi said:

I like that idea.  In fact to expand upon it, how about special assassins that are genuinely challenging to fight that will only show up in dark sectors?  That'd be pretty cool, like an infested stalker, infested zanuka, infested g3 or just something new and monstrous to match all dark sectors only having infested.

well that sounds a little bit odd. but heck i came up with a head canon of the tenno having some kind of temporal or dimensional displacement what ever to the point where almost everything that we have done or went through can happen at any time. save for a few things. 

and the reason i have this as a head canon is because we can fight both non infested alad v and infested alad v one after another. even fight infested alad v first and regular second. 

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4 hours ago, Zilchy said:

That's interesting because he should be resistant to slash due to alloy armour. I guess you must be doing overkill raw damage to him?

This is what I’ve been doing as well. The damage is just so high that it doesn’t matter.

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3 minutes ago, maddragonmaster said:

well that sounds a little bit odd. but heck i came up with a head canon of the tenno having some kind of temporal or dimensional displacement what ever to the point where almost everything that we have done or went through can happen at any time. save for a few things. 

and the reason i have this as a head canon is because we can fight both non infested alad v and infested alad v one after another. even fight infested alad v first and regular second. 

Well I was thinking more along the lines of the infested made mutant clones of those assassins, not that they actually managed to get hold of them and infected them.  Just thought it'd be cool if we had something like an infested stalker where his head was just a giant eyeball, the arm normally wielding a sword could be replaced with a Mire AS his arm, replace the pakal attachments with something like the iliac set, change his colours from red to a sickly green, swap his abilities out with Nidus's abilities and viola!  Mutant Infested Stalker!

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I typically find it quicker with a fast hybrid melee. You would need radiation obviously and with a fast attacking melee with bloodrush on it, you will start to shred him once your multiplier stacks up. Given the choice, I would probably pick S&A Prime or kripath

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1 minute ago, Konachibi said:

Well I was thinking more along the lines of the infested made mutant clones of those assassins, not that they actually managed to get hold of them and infected them.  Just thought it'd be cool if we had something like an infested stalker where his head was just a giant eyeball, the arm normally wielding a sword could be replaced with a Mire AS his arm, replace the pakal attachments with something like the iliac set, change his colours from red to a sickly green, swap his abilities out with Nidus's abilities and viola!  Mutant Infested Stalker!

ah. sounds interesting, maybe call them shades  or something. well we don't really have some mad scientist anymore since alad v left the infested because he realized at the last second that he will die if he becames full blown infested. maybe if the infested Valued the idea of alad v's brain maybe they attempted to make a duplicate of him and now we have some super smart batch of infested.

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