Feedback on Wolf of Saturn Six

[LSG501]

12 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

No he requires you to have 1 specific item to handle him, that is far from "specific wolf builds" as you claimed earlier. Stalker, G3 and Zanuka are outdated, they havent aged well, Wolf is new. What the #*!% would be the purpose of releasing Wolf if he was getting killed by a sneeze like the others? 

Also if you are leveling gear and want to be alone, there are other places that are Wolf-free. Just go do SO for frames or ESO for weapons if you dont wanna pick one single item to fight the Wolf. 

It is good that they've added something that actually requires you to slot something specific. And no, radiation is not in need to be more useful. It works great against Grineer and it still wipes out Corpus and Infested even if it isnt optimized for it. You are in lowbie missions, your damage of choice is pointless at the get go. It barely has any impact even at sortie levels or in arbitrations, unless you have a really weak weapon/build. And as pointed out, you dont need a full build to counter Wolf, you need a single weapon or frame for it. So it doesnt matter if you find radiation bad, you still have 3 slots left for the perfect damage setup for the rest of the mission. Or do you really run around and swap between weapons 24/7 throughout a mission?

I'm starting to think you're either out to troll or...

You keep arguing the same thing that we 'just need to take' a radiation weapon when the main issue for many is the fact YOU NEED TO TAKE A SPECIFIC WEAPON...

Edited April 29, 2019 by LSG501

[SneakyErvin]

6 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Enough of this "Players hate challenge" BS strawman.

You cannot just throw everyone's complaints out of the window because you don't see a problem.

You want to discount every facet of the complaint, how an invading boss who can take 20 minutes if you are unprepared and force you to stay in a defense or interception mission because one player won't go down and make him sod off, how an invading boss is only weak to a certain damage type that nothing aside from bosses tend to be weak to, how an invading boss has an awful weakpoint that nobody in their right mind will try to hit because if you miss it he takes less damage than shooting him in the torso.

This boss is BS, and trying to shout down and shame people saying they "don't like a challenge" for not liking him is even bigger BS.

But they dont, obviously. I mean most of the complaints about him is regarding him needing "special" loadouts to kill him. Which isnt true. There are several ways to kill him, people just dont want to because they want only their "perfect" leveling setup for maximized time along with a wolf shaped loot pinata and not something they actually need to work for.

Also, several things are weak or neutral to radiation, and most things that are resistant to it are weak on their own and die to it just the same. There is zero drawback in running with radiation in the content where wolf actually has a chance to spawn. We are talking trivial star map levels here, where any type of weapon setup works. Oh noes you run an infested/corpus mission and you are forced to equip one of your weapons with radiation, a weapon intended to take down the Wolf for that matter. Well news flash, that weapon will instagib any freakin infested/corpus you face across the star map eitherway, no matter if it has radiation, corrosive, heat or whatever. It will keep doing that through sortie 3 missions aswell (except for radiation elemental enchancement ones) and well into infested/corpus arbi missions. Not that it matters because Wolf cant spawn there anyways.

It is rediculous that people take up towards 30 minutes to kill him. Just with a kavat and a radiation weapon you cut that time down to 1-2 minutes, depending if you are grouped or not.

[Renegade343]

6 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

Well yes, he doesn't dish out much damage. That's why he has his little fugitives with him, they're the dangerous element in the fight. The whole group is the boss.

Honestly, even the fugitives are not really that threatening if you pay just a bit of attention. Like, even less attention than paying attention to Ancient/Corrupted Healers.

I find the whole fight a little bit stupid, because most times, it ends up with a guy or two wailing on Wolf, the other guys providing whatever's needed, and the three fugitives doing god knows what apart from chucking the odd grenade.

[SordidDreams]

Just now, Renegade343 said:

Honestly, even the fugitives are not really that threatening if you pay just a bit of attention. Like, even less attention than paying attention to Ancient/Corrupted Healers.

I find the whole fight a little bit stupid, because most times, it ends up with a guy or two wailing on Wolf, the other guys providing whatever's needed, and the three fugitives doing god knows what apart from chucking the odd grenade.

I mean, yeah. It's just a miniboss after all.

My biggest problem with the fugitives comes after the Wolf is dead, since they're apparently capable of chucking their molotovs even when they're lying incapacitated on the ground.

[LSG501]

14 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

Really? I'd say seeing so many people complaining about how unkillable he is shows that he's too good at countering power creep.

That's true of almost all bosses in WF, though.

Well yes, he doesn't dish out much damage. That's why he has his little fugitives with him, they're the dangerous element in the fight. The whole group is the boss.

But he doesn't really counter powercreep, they've done the laziest approach to 'fix powercreep' by stopping abilities and status effects from working on him (in most cases), reducing the damage that weapons are able to do and making you using specific gear with rarely used elemental damage types to kill him in a reasonable time....  it's literally designed to take a long time, there is no challenge or difficulty in something taking a long time.

Ah yes, the whole group where the other 3 can be immobilised so they do nothing while also having the laziest form of 'boss design' possible in being immortal until the 'boss' is killed...

In all honesty if you take away the radiation/crit requirement, remove or reduce the damage reduction (I was seeing 50%+ damage reduction last visit from him... yeah that's a challenge alright), allow the use of status effects and I doubt there would be as much complaining about him.

1 minute ago, SordidDreams said:

My biggest problem with the fugitives comes after the Wolf is dead, since they're apparently capable of chucking their molotovs even when they're lying incapacitated on the ground.

Ironically I have no issue with this...they're basically downed, not dead, so like us when we die with a warframe we can still shoot our pistols, so I have no issue with them being able to do it too.

Edited April 29, 2019 by LSG501

[Renegade343]

4 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

I mean, yeah. It's just a miniboss after all.

I don't know, if the fugitives did a bit more than sniffing flowers/scratching our backs and occasionally remembering that they have lethal grenades they can use, it could be more fun.

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, LSG501 said:

I'm starting to think you're either out to troll or...

You keep arguing the same thing that we 'just need to take' a radiation weapon when the main issue for many is the fact YOU NEED TO TAKE A SPECIFIC WEAPON...

You dont need to take a specific weapon, you need to mod it specifically. There are several options to beating him, anywhere from exalted frames to weapons. But people refuse all of the options that are available and rather complain about how he caught them of guard while leveling their weapons.

 

[SordidDreams]

7 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

But he doesn't really counter powercreep, they've done the laziest approach to 'fix powercreep' by stopping abilities and status effects from working on him (in most cases), reducing the damage that weapons are able to do and making you using specific gear with rarely used elemental damage types to kill him in a reasonable time....  it's literally designed to take a long time, there is no challenge or difficulty in something taking a long time.

Ah yes, the whole group where the other 3 can be immobilised so they do nothing while also having the laziest form of 'boss design' possible in being immortal until the 'boss' is killed...

In all honesty if you take away the radiation/crit requirement, remove or reduce the damage reduction (I was seeing 50%+ damage reduction last visit from him... yeah that's a challenge alright), allow the use of status effects and I doubt there would be as much complaining about him.

Again, true, but again, true of everything else in this game as well. I find it very strange that people are complaining that the Wolf is a bad boss because abilities don't work on him shortly after praising Exploiter for being a great boss because abilities don't work on her. Given that Warframe is a heavily stat-based game, I actually find the Wolf a far better boss of the two because at least some of your stats matter in the fight.

Well what alternative is there? Making them even tougher than he is? I'm sure that would generate no complaints whatsoever.

I mean, yeah, if you made him a pushover, people wouldn't complain about him being hard. That's kinda obvious, but it would also defeat the point of having a difficult miniboss. Yeah, the difficulty is just a bullet sponge, but again, a heavily stat-based game. There's no other way to make him difficult than by making him tanky.

[LSG501]

15 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

You dont need to take a specific weapon, you need to mod it specifically. There are several options to beating him, anywhere from exalted frames to weapons. But people refuse all of the options that are available and rather complain about how he caught them of guard while leveling their weapons.

 

Oh I'll just take a 100% status build weapon... oh wait, status doesn't work... I know I'll take mk1 braton, oh wait the damage is far too low to be effective. 

As much as you try and argue otherwise due to the health on the wolf you need to take harder hitting weaponry, even with crit and radiation damage on it.

And not everyone wants to run an exalted frame, we've only got 30+ frames to chose from...not to mention that's not always the best type of frame to take for a mission.

Edited April 29, 2019 by LSG501

[LSG501]

1 minute ago, SordidDreams said:

Again, true, but again, true of everything else in this game as well. I find it very strange that people are complaining that the Wolf is a bad boss because abilities don't work on him shortly after praising Exploiter for being a great boss because abilities don't work on her. Given that Warframe is a heavily stat-based game, I actually find the Wolf a far better boss of the two because at least some of your stats matter in the fight. 

Well what alternative is there? Making them even tougher than he is? I'm sure that would generate no complaints whatsoever.

I mean, yeah, if you made him a pushover, people wouldn't complain about him being hard. That's kinda obvious, but it would also defeat the point of having a difficult miniboss. Yeah, the difficulty is just a bullet sponge, but again, a heavily stat-based game. There's no other way to make him difficult than by making him tanky.

I take it you missed the bit where we were complaining about nova being nerfed etc against the exploiter orb... or the other complaints we had with it... 

To be fair most the praise for the exploiter came before they started tweaking/nerfing things...

Alternative, don't completely wipe out alternative ways to kill things... we've literally got one single way to kill the wolf effectively and in a timely manner. Status doesn't even have an effect, IMO the odds are the next nightwave boss will be corpus and will only take damage from status effects, DE are anything but original in their thought process.

How to make him better, make him more risky to fight, give him better AI or something instead of just making him a mindless bullet sponge with a vacuum cleaner as an ability.

Answer me this though... can you honestly say you will enjoy fighting such a long drawn out fight against the wolf once you have everything that he drops, because lets be honest there's no other reason to fight him than the wolf sledge and the face mask.   People are saying it's ok now but the odds are many are still after the items or are more likely trying to keep it long winded to inflate the bp and motor prices on trade. 

You rarely see complaints about fighting the stalker, g3 or zanuka, even though they have the same limited drop table as the wolf, because it doesn't take an excessive amount of time to fight, there will continue to be complaints about the wolf if it stays the same.

[Alexandrious]

8 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

If you are tired of "be a bit more prepared, so you can whine less about being unprepared" maybe give it a try. 

I literally quoted someone claiming that one of the more powerful cheese frames for dealing with the wolf, wasn't any good. That suggests that they have no clue as to what they are talking about, and other newbs may see that nonsense and actually believe it. 

And the other person I quoted has been active enough on the forums, screeching about this whole event in so many places that it's beyond the realm of reasonable doubt that they haven't seen posts explaining what tactics work, outside of "so radiation is the only way to hurt him, this is the BS". 

Now the most recent part I've quoted seems to show someone who would apparently rather have their challenges nerfed because a strong enemy that doesn't die in a single shot breaks the power fantasy, and anyone pointing out how dealing with him is far from impossible, needs to be shut down. 

So please, if you don't want the grapes that's fine, but pretending that they're sour, isn't really helping you any. 

 

Hmm....my Oberon Prime build can completely tank a lv 75 wolfie with no danger. Everyone else bailed, host migrated to me, so I just spanked the wolf by myself meleeing him down. 

So am I using a cheese frame? 🤨

[YazMatazO]

Say what... people didn't enjoy the wolf?

Oh, well. That's hardly news. 

[nslay]

20 hours ago, NuclearCoffeePot said:

A big problem with wolf is that he takes obscene dmg and his lil buddies are completely immune while they lob fireballs at you- not to mention some of his attacks drag you in like your ammo to a vacuum- 

If you're not going to use a CC frame like Nyx or Revenant, just lead the wolf away from his buddies. They don't follow him closely.

[SordidDreams]

14 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

we've literally got one single way to kill the wolf effectively and in a timely manner

Um, no? Radiation crit gun, exalted weapons, Nova's 2, arch-guns, and I'm sure there are more. Someone probably figured out some ridiculous operator-based strategy too (other than the sadly nerfed lockdown).

14 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

can you honestly say you will enjoy fighting such a long drawn out fight against the wolf once you have everything that he drops

Yeah, actually, I will, because my fights with him don't last more than about a minute. He's a pleasant diversion from the usual tedium, it's refreshing to fight something that doesn't get instantly rocketed into the stratosphere by a single antimatter drop. And I do like that he telegraphs his attacks, even if they don't do a ton of damage. He feels a little like a Dark Souls boss. He's not perfect, but compared to the vast majority of WF bosses he's a huge step forward.

If it makes you feel any better, I have a feeling his appearances are going to be much rarer once this Nightwave ends. My guess is he's going to be confined to the new Jupiter, much like Ambulas was confined to Pluto once its own introductory event ended.

2 minutes ago, nslay said:

If you're not going to use a CC frame like Nyx or Revenant, just lead the wolf away from his buddies. They don't follow him closely.

He will teleport to you, they will not. Separating them really isn't hard even with no CC whatsoever. Though everyone running Zenurik does have a CC they probably forgot about (temporal blast).

Edited April 29, 2019 by SordidDreams

[Iludra]

50 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Tell that to people who want to sweep all the design issues under the rug of "Players hate challenge".

Right. This has nothing to do with challenge in my book. And as proven by all the "mine is longer" folks describing how they melt Wolf in milliseconds, Wolf is not challenging. It really feels like DE is trolling us with this one.

[Oreades]

Takeaway the RNG element and the Wolf is fine, OK maybe his loot tables would still be terribad. 

As he stands the Wolf is IN NO WAY difficult or challenging but ONLY if you have a specific set of weapons to deal with him. Which is what makes the RNG element absolute garbage. The encounter is essentially a Boolean pass/fail before it even starts, do you have your anti-Wolf weapon [y/n]

It's terrible for build Diversity cause now everyone is going to have one weapon slot dedicated to some Anti-Wolf meta weapon at all times.

That's it that's all the Wolf accomplished. *party streamer noises* Wooooo~

[Aldain]

5 minutes ago, Iludra said:

Right. This has nothing to do with challenge in my book. And as proven by all the "mine is longer" folks describing how they melt Wolf in milliseconds, Wolf is not challenging. It really feels like DE is trolling us with this one.

My question is why would nerfing him be such a loss if players can already melt him in under a minute?

The only difference would be more players beating him faster, yet somehow other players being able to melt something in 3-5 minutes with non-optimal equipment makes players who beat him in 60 seconds before the nerf worse somehow when they still melt him in 60 seconds or less?

I can't comprehend this logic.

[JackHargreav]

15 minutes ago, Iludra said:

Right. This has nothing to do with challenge in my book. And as proven by all the "mine is longer" folks describing how they melt Wolf in milliseconds, Wolf is not challenging. It really feels like DE is trolling us with this one.

So feel like being trolled just because there are ppl who can kill him easily.

[Mrevasivepants]

On 2019-04-26 at 12:34 PM, SordidDreams said:

Well yeah. That's true of any and all challenging content in WF, though. Everything can be trivialized by just picking the correct equipment, and quite a few things are extremely hard if you don't. WF is very much a stat-based game where success is mostly determined by bringing the correct and sufficiently leveled gear. If you don't like that, you're playing the wrong game.

The problem with this, which i've already debated with another fellow tenno that was bringing me on the brink of madness, is that this idea can easily be debunked with the following: Spawns.

When you go face Eidolons, you prepare ahead with your rad weapons, specific warframe and what not, and at night the eidolon will spawn 100% of the time.

When you go face the Lephantis, you equip yourself accordingly to deal a lot of damage when he exposes himself and protect yourself while he doesnt, and he'll spawn in the mission 100% of the time.

When you face the profit taker/Exploiter Orb, you equip things that'll last you a long time before she's exposed, and she'll spawn 100% of the time.

When you go to your grandmas house, you prepare yourself by not eating anything because she'll spoil you with lots of sugary treats, and it'll happen 100% of the time.

Now for the wolf, you equip meta builds, mostly involing rad crit things, and a warframe that passively increases your damage in order to end the fight in less than 1 minute, and he'll spawn... 6% of the time.

You see the problem here? It ruins the fun, running a specific loadout just to fight an enemy that'll spawn in the minority is not justifiable and fun at all, considering the fact that the majority of the Warframe Community that faces him are either low level or caught off guard because they were leveling stuff, i.e Hydron.

 

If he were to spawn somewhere specifically with a 100% spawn rate., running a specific loadout would be completely justified

[(XBOX)Movarias67]

Out of 6 times running in to him, I think I got 1 drop.  Since I'm new I'm usually not with a bunch of high end players so the fight was usually 25-30 minutes long each (some maybe longer).

[zoffmode]

1 hour ago, LSG501 said:

I'm starting to think you're either out to troll or...

You keep arguing the same thing that we 'just need to take' a radiation weapon when the main issue for many is the fact YOU NEED TO TAKE A SPECIFIC WEAPON...

It's a waste of time talking with certain people. Save yourself some trouble.

Edited April 29, 2019 by zoffmode

[SordidDreams]

1 minute ago, Mrevasivepants said:

You see the problem here? It ruins the fun, running a specific loadout just to fight an enemy that'll spawn in the minority is not justifiable and fun at all, considering the fact that the majority of the Warframe Community that faces him are either low level or caught off guard because they were leveling stuff, i.e Hydron. 

 

If he were to spawn somewhere specifically with a 100% spawn rate., running a specific loadout would be completely justified

Yeah, that is a valid concern. He's a random miniboss designed like a node boss. However I have a feeling that's going to be addressed soon. I expect his appearance rate to go down significantly once the current NW ends, and probably even be confined to the new Jupiter much like Ambulas was confined to Pluto once its own introductory event ended.

I guess I was lucky that my favorite loadout didn't really need adjusting in any real way. I did swap out my Lesion for a Shattering Impact Sarpa specifically to take on the big brown brawny boi, but seeing how silly OP it is, I'm going to be keeping it indefinitely. Or at least until Sarpa Prime is released and/or SI nerfed.

Though I will say that IMO there's no excuse for getting caught with your pants down in Hydron. When leveling a frame, there's no reason not to take a good gun. And when only leveling guns, ESO is the place to be.

[Mrevasivepants]

1 minute ago, SordidDreams said:

Yeah, that is a valid concern. He's a random miniboss designed like a node boss. However I have a feeling that's going to be addressed soon. I expect his appearance rate to go down significantly once the current NW ends, and probably even be confined to the new Jupiter much like Ambulas was confined to Pluto once its own introductory event ended.

I guess I was lucky that my favorite loadout didn't really need adjusting in any real way. I did swap out my Lesion for a Shattering Impact Sarpa specifically to take on the big brown brawny boi, but seeing how silly OP it is, I'm going to be keeping it indefinitely. Or at least until Sarpa Prime is released and/or SI nerfed.

Though I will say that IMO there's no excuse for getting caught with your pants down in Hydron. When leveling a frame, there's no reason not to take a good gun. And when only leveling guns, ESO is the place to be.

I applaud that you actually consider my point and not just entirely dismiss it, it's good to see that they're sane people on the other side of the bridge.

The problem with bringing a good gun for hydon is that I'm going to equip something that'll allow me to handle with mobs easier, not to deal with the wolf. I'm not going to bring a rubico prime as my only good gun while leveling the rest in the small chance that the wolf might spawn while me and/or the defense gets its ass tored by the grineer mobs. No, I'll be bringing something like an Ignis Wraith which is not good, even with rad, against the wolf. I could bring a Catchmoon yes, but it gets boring real fast since I can just then play the game with one hand and use the other for heavy drinking in hopes to make the game more fun (mrevasivepantsdoesnotpromotetheuseofalcoholanddrugsforenhancedpleasurepleaseconsultyourpriestforfurtherenlightment). As for ESO, well, yes you're right but it's irrelevant to the topic since the wolf doesn't spawn there.

I play the game since 2013 and in a game like this you have to get really creative with the stuff you do in order to stay motived to keep playing a game that's grind intensive, but that's just me. That's why I love running really funny builds, as I've stated previously (Sanec Volt, Bombarding FPS breaking mirage, etc etc)

Thank you for your input.

[krc473]

4 minutes ago, Mrevasivepants said:

The problem with bringing a good gun for hydon is that I'm going to equip something that'll allow me to handle with mobs easier, not to deal with the wolf

There is another option. Bring a rad-crit archgun. It won’t be ideal, but you can keep using the stuff you wanted. Larkspur was my solution to wanting to use weapons that I like rather than ones for Wolf. It worked, but not as well as a Catchmoon or Rubico etc. 

[Mrevasivepants]

12 minutes ago, krc473 said:

There is another option. Bring a rad-crit archgun. It won’t be ideal, but you can keep using the stuff you wanted. Larkspur was my solution to wanting to use weapons that I like rather than ones for Wolf. It worked, but not as well as a Catchmoon or Rubico etc. 

Good alternative. I like it, even though it involves actually getting a gravimag, which in order to use it you first need to get rank 5 with solaris united to the profit taker phases, and invest in archguns. But an alternative no less.