Feedback on Wolf of Saturn Six

[SordidDreams]

21 minutes ago, Mrevasivepants said:

As for ESO, well, yes you're right but it's irrelevant to the topic since the wolf doesn't spawn there. 

That's exactly why it is relevant. People complain that they can neither kill the Wolf nor avoid him, well, that's actually not true. Not only can you avoid him, you can level your guns faster in the process.

[Mrevasivepants]

3 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

That's exactly why it is relevant. People complain that they can neither kill the Wolf nor avoid him, well, that's actually not true. Not only can you avoid him, you can level your guns faster in the process.

Well alright then, if a person wants to meet both those criterias. If you just want to avoid him it becomes a bit difficult in general, though you'll face him only in small chance.

[AvaloN1101]

1 hour ago, EmberStar said:

Not that it matters or that anyone even slightly cares what I think.  But my issue with the Wolf is that again, it's a boss design that removes choices.  It would appear that he's fairly weak to Radiation damage.  Which means that for as long as this event is running, you MUST carry a Radiation weapon at all times if you want to have any real hope of defeating him.  Especially solo.  Want to stick with your favorite weapons, or a themed setup (Grineer, Corpus or Infested themed outfits to match your fashionframe) or just weapons setup to be most efficient with what you *actually* plan to fight?  Tough toucans.  You'll carry a Radiation Rubico Prime, and you'll LOVE IT.  Or the Wolf's immortal freaking henchmen will melt your face off eventually.  (The Wolf is surprisingly difficult to lead around, since his Tasmanian Devil attacks often result in him getting stuck behind stuff.  And the little brown smurfs actually move pretty fast once they get loose.)

I just hope that he stops being a random stalker-type boss once Nightwave is over, and gets locked down to a specific map node.  Where I'll probably end up ignoring him completely, just like I do with the Eidolons and the complete waste of time that is Exploiter Orb.

I understand where you're coming from. However I don't agree with this because sometimes you shouldn't have a choice. The Wolf might be a slightly more extreme example of this, but there have been plenty of times where you had no choice but to carry certain weapons, use a certain frame, or complete certain quests and whatnot if you want to continue progressing. Sometimes it's super subtle. Having a ton of freedom of choice in a game is not always a good thing.

The loadout choice you make for a regular, run-of-the-mill mission might catch you heat from your teammates because you might actually be a detriment to the mission, rather than any kind of significant help. Example: You bring a Mesa with whatever fancy schmancy fashionframe crap into a sortie Mobile Defense that has a Radiation hazard. 45 seconds later the mission fails because you used your Peacemakers (4) ability to attempt to clear the room of enemies, unknowingly being affected by a random Rad proc, resulting in the deaths of enemies, allies, and the console you're supposed to be protecting. But it's all good, because should be free to bring whatever frame and weapon of your choice, right?

Wrong.

In this sense, you guys are manipulating the perception of choice (or lack thereof sometimes) players have in the game to express your own discontent with the Wolf, or whatever it is you're sad about. That's really cute. It's also very toxic. "It's OK with this, but not for that. I like it here, but not there. So change it."

The most amusing thing I've seen throughout the forums is veteran players wanting his spawn rates to be lowered and saying they just abort when he appears, because he isn't worth fighting, his rewards suck, he's boring, et cetera. So what would happen if they remove the Wolf completely? You will still be bored. The Wolf being removed would mean 1 additional thing you could potentially use to break the monotony is gone. Nothing else has changed. You'll be doing the same things you were doing before, getting bored, coming to the forums, and posting about how bored you are.

So get over it. Fight the damn Wolf, make him run, because there's nothing else super interesting worth doing right now anyway. Being combative, whiny, demanding, and just overall toxic won't solve the problem, and it certainly won't help DE figure out a nice medium for the players, both at this current time and for future Nightwave episodes.

A note for Digital Extremes: If by some miracle you're reading this, this humble Warframe player and community member has a counter-suggestion: when the Wolf invades a player's or squad's game... remove the option to Abort Mission and/or extract without beating him. Maybe then, when forced do to something they don't want to do (which is common is just about any damn game ever made) or forced to pull a 'Destiny' and disconnect the Ethernet cable/internet to escape, people will start to appreciate your efforts, and maybe even realize just how pampered you have them right now.

[xMarvin732]

Am 21.4.2019 um 19:15 schrieb Tokomi_:

Who aborts when the wolf appears in a mission?

I have been in several missions yesterday, and one today, that when the wolf appeared, the whole pub group of four (me included) unanimously decided it was a better gameplay choice to abort. The two exceptions were when we could just run away and complete the mission and exfil while he was wandering after us through the map.

Surely DE had something else in mind when this concept was approved. Generally speaking, no one wants to fight him; it's universally agreed upon that the time sink is too much for the reward. This is from random public groups, not my very small circle of Warframe friends (who, incidentally, don't fight him either).

Is there a better way, DE?

Sadly a teammate aborted, immediately after he spawned, 
THE BIGGEST Problem is, that it took half an hour on Hydron while the Wolf is Level 70 , and he even dropped only a Mod, like wtf DE, please dont let us waste 30mins for only a trash mod we already have tons of.

[-Delimit-]

2 hours ago, Wolfdoggie said:

I don't see what the big deal is. He finally spawned for me again. Haven't seen him since those 3 times beginning of NW when he dropped nothing and he still instadies. :s

Level 23 Wolf, solo.  There's a significant difference in tankiness between that and a level 70 spawning in a group of people farming Hydron where his helpers can nearly 1 shot people, and it takes several minutes of chasing him around the map trying to kill him even with leveled weapons and cats. 

[Wolfdoggie]

2 minutes ago, -AS-Delimit said:

Level 23 Wolf, solo.  There's a significant difference in tankiness between that and a level 70 spawning in a group of people farming Hydron where his helpers can nearly 1 shot people, and it takes several minutes of chasing him around the map trying to kill him even with leveled weapons and cats. 

Would be great if I could fight him in Kuva Flood but the game wont let me. I'd love an actual challenge for once but they had to make it RNG.

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, LSG501 said:

Oh I'll just take a 100% status build weapon... oh wait, status doesn't work... I know I'll take mk1 braton, oh wait the damage is far too low to be effective. 

As much as you try and argue otherwise due to the health on the wolf you need to take harder hitting weaponry, even with crit and radiation damage on it.

And not everyone wants to run an exalted frame, we've only got 30+ frames to chose from...not to mention that's not always the best type of frame to take for a mission.

You are just answering straight out of your ass here. I said "you need to mod it specifically" aswell as "There are several options to beating him, anywhere from exalted frames to weapons." and you come up with the answer you provided... how? No one said MK1 Braton was able to take him down, nor that a status weapon would work. You just didnt read or didnt get what you read (which was fairly easy wording to begin with).

As I said you need to mod is specifically but there are several weapons and frames that work well to take him down. You are just on the extreme end of it, with the exact opposite of what works i.e 100% status weapon and the absolutely lowest weapon you can get i.e MK1 trash.

And you get back to the same complaint as everyone else "I dont wanna adapt, why should I?". Again it is a player problem right there and not an issue with the boss. You have the choice to either pick a frame or a weapon to deal with Wolf, none of it has any impact whatsoever on whatever mission you run on the star map. It is trivial content, it doesnt matter what damage type or frame you bring for star map missions so you can focus on bringing something for the Wolf. Or do you refuse multi damage weapon types on PT aswell and complain when it takes too long to kill him?

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

These threads really point out how disconnected the Veteran playerbase has become from the bulk of the playerbase.

Veterans (who are already pretty much done with the game) really fail to see just how flawed the "bring __ loadout" answer is.

Players are expected to build their loadout over what is at the most if RNG is willing 6% spawn chance?

Not everyone has a Rubico/Lanka/Meta Weapon or the MR to equip it.

Less than people than these forums care to admit breed Kavats due to the difficulty of acquiring DNA. (Many players see Kavats as a Pay to Win pet as many just buy the DNA codes.)

Barely anyone has an Archgun Deployer as it's technically locked behind 2 walls. 1 being a very long standing grind for the bulk of the playerbase. (Players above MR13 are not common.)

Sorry. I see it as the exact opposite. I believe that many of the people complaining are out of touch with the game. It seems to me that they're living in their power fantasy, believe themselves to be so godlike that they'll take purely unranked frames and weapons knowing that even if they can't survive, someone will stop to pick them up. 

How selfish does a person have to be to go into a high level defense mission and not take even a single way to contribute meaningfully to the killing? Is it any wonder that people have to recruit to be reasonably sure of finding a group that has members who can make it to level 20 at all?

Of late, I've been tempted to totally ignore the defense objective and let it take a beating just to remind the squad that they should be mindful of it, instead of off playing pew pew hoping to level their fodder off of others while contributing next to nothing. 

For the millionth time, you don't have to have the meta to contribute meaningfully, but for goodness sake take something! I recently ran into the wolf and started blasting him, but I only did about a third of the damage on the wolf himself, as a chroma was slicing into him. I realised this because he went down much faster than normal. After he went down I hopped around blasting the fugitives and we ended up pretty much tied for damage at 45% each. We each had some gear we were levelling, but the other two people in the squad? They were levelling everything in various stage of progress. I don't recall any spectres, buffs, revives, pizzas being tossed out, but I was on the base of the stairs so maybe I just didn't see them. 

Worse we have people proudly proclaiming that they never need anything other than x-build, so they'll never take anything else. In a game where we're encouraged to adapt to the enemy. And when we look at the build... it's demonstrably "mediocre" at best. That's what you expect when someone believes the power fantasy. 

But the Wolf? He's like a honeybadger he dgaf about our power fantasy. He's living his best life, and doing exactly what he is supposed to do. 

We know that his spawn rate is elevated, and that he scales with level. But we've got people crying about how terrible it is for the newbs who happen to be completely unprepared, leveling everything in a node way down towards the end of the game? Yeah I feel for the newbs but that's not going to fly. They can hop over to a relay and visit simaris instead where they can be safe and level quickly. 

[LSG501]

2 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

Um, no? Radiation crit gun, exalted weapons, Nova's 2, arch-guns, and I'm sure there are more. Someone probably figured out some ridiculous operator-based strategy too (other than the sadly nerfed lockdown).

You say you don't need to take a specific setup, then when I prove that you can't just take anything you then go and quote specific requirements....

I think I'll just follow zoffmode and ignore certain people...

Edited April 29, 2019 by LSG501

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, Aldain said:

My question is why would nerfing him be such a loss if players can already melt him in under a minute?

The only difference would be more players beating him faster, yet somehow other players being able to melt something in 3-5 minutes with non-optimal equipment makes players who beat him in 60 seconds before the nerf worse somehow when they still melt him in 60 seconds or less?

I can't comprehend this logic.

Because he is one of the few things in this game where your progression actually means something. As it should be in arpgs. You can beat him fairly well with lower equipment but the better your equipment gets the faster and more efficient the killing gets and the more you feel like you actually progress. We dont have that elsewhere in this game besides Eidolons really.

And we are already at the 3-5 minute mark with non-optimal equipment. Rubico for instance is a low MR rifle that does just fine to kill him effectively early on and Vectis can very likely pull it off aswell from MR2. There is zero reason to have the optimal feeling when you dont have the optimal gear. Not everything needs to be accessible and the same for a lowbie as an old timer.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

2 hours ago, Alexandrious said:

Hmm....my Oberon Prime build can completely tank a lv 75 wolfie with no danger. Everyone else bailed, host migrated to me, so I just spanked the wolf by myself meleeing him down. 

So am I using a cheese frame? 🤨

Nope, and that's the point. While there are metas that allow people to destroy him with little effort, we don't need them to deal with the wolf in short order. 

Anyone claiming that the only way to beat him is to "use x, with y and z" doesn't know what they're talking about. 

[SordidDreams]

3 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

You say you don't need to take a specific setup, then when I prove that you can't just take anything you then go and quote specific requirements....

 

I think I'll just follow zoffmode and ignore certain people...

Quote me where I said that you can just take anything or apologize. I will not be trolled by having words put into my mouth.

Edited April 29, 2019 by SordidDreams

[LSG501]

18 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

As I said you need to mod is specifically but there are several weapons and frames that work well to take him down. You are just on the extreme end of it, with the exact opposite of what works i.e 100% status weapon and the absolutely lowest weapon you can get i.e MK1 trash.

It might be at the extreme end of the argument but it's no different to those that are saying its not requiring specific builds to beat him in a timely manner. 

You can say take exalted frames but not everyone wants to take an exalted frame, why should we NEED to take exalted frames specifically in case we run into the wolf, we don't need to against any other assassin.  Status weapons are far more effective long term than crit weapons etc but again why should we need to take a crit weapon specifically in case we encounter the wolf, no other assassin requires that we do.  

 

[SneakyErvin]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

How selfish does a person have to be to go into a high level defense mission and not take even a single way to contribute meaningfully to the killing? Is it any wonder that people have to recruit to be reasonably sure of finding a group that has members who can make it to level 20 at all?

That right there is what I think is one of the reasons for the Wolf encounter. It feels like DEs kind way of saying "please play the game, dont afk it". Because that is what most defense missions are now, 3 selfish players leveling their S#&$ and not caring about anything. Just in order to get the most affinity gain out of their time.

I hope the Wolf is a shape of things to come and I hope we will get difficulty sliders or something to decide where we wanna start, hopefully with an added level 30 requirement on gear option aswell.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

5 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

It might be at the extreme end of the argument but it's no different to those that are saying its not requiring specific builds to beat him in a timely manner. 

You can say take exalted frames but not everyone wants to take an exalted frame, why should we NEED to take exalted frames specifically in case we run into the wolf, we don't need to against any other assassin.  Status weapons are far more effective long term than crit weapons etc but again why should we need to take a crit weapon specifically in case we encounter the wolf, no other assassin requires that we do.  

 

Every single assassin requires that we do. It's just that many of us already take more than enough firepower to deal with them but newbs still get destroyed by them.

The difference is a matter of degrees, nothing else. 

[SneakyErvin]

3 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

It might be at the extreme end of the argument but it's no different to those that are saying its not requiring specific builds to beat him in a timely manner. 

You can say take exalted frames but not everyone wants to take an exalted frame, why should we NEED to take exalted frames specifically in case we run into the wolf, we don't need to against any other assassin.  Status weapons are far more effective long term than crit weapons etc but again why should we need to take a crit weapon specifically in case we encounter the wolf, no other assassin requires that we do.  

 

None of what you say matters though because we are talking about the silly star map since we are talking about the Wolf. Yes status weapons are better, but only later on, so what you are saying is a moot point. It also doesnt change the fact that only one out of 4 slots in your build is catering to the Wolf, so even if you were to run a loooooong endless you'd still have 3/4 choices dedicated to that.

And you dont NEED to take an exalted frame, it is a choice incase you dont want to pick a weapon for it. Personally I dont use an exalted frame for him. I use whatever frame I feel like for the mission with a radiation rubico prime if I play Frost P or a radiation catchmoon for everyone else (my Frost uses corrosive+heat on his). If I didnt have any of those I'd simply equip a radiation rubico or lanka, perhaps a radiation pyrana(prime). Or I'd go with a hybrid melee with blood rush and radiation build. There are so many options to get effective radiation damage dealers for Wolf.

[LSG501]

Just now, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Every single assassin requires that we do. It's just that many of us already take more than enough firepower to deal with them but newbs still get destroyed by them. 

The difference is a matter of degrees, nothing else. 

Hey I liked the stalker when I was a newbie, it was actually a challenge, when you get your operator (and amps) it became a cheesefest, as it should do in all honesty seeing how strong the operator is supposed to be.  The g3 and zanuka have never been a struggle, even when I was a newbie they were easy to kill... hell I had to force myself not to kill zanuka the instant it spawned one time so I could do it's mini mission.

The wolf is anything but a challenge, it's only unique mechanic is requiring a specific setup to kill it in a timely manner and appearing more often when you have low end gear. 

It does hardly any damage, even at level 75, it's easy to dodge any attacks anyway, and it's entire difficulty is basically waiting for it to take enough damage for it to die.  If you have a tanky frame you can literally face tank it, if you have any other sort of frame you just have to keep shooting it until it goes down.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

6 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

Hey I liked the stalker when I was a newbie, it was actually a challenge, when you get your operator (and amps) it became a cheesefest, as it should do in all honesty seeing how strong the operator is supposed to be.  The g3 and zanuka have never been a struggle, even when I was a newbie they were easy to kill... hell I had to force myself not to kill zanuka the instant it spawned one time so I could do it's mini mission.

The wolf is anything but a challenge, it's only unique mechanic is requiring a specific setup to kill it in a timely manner and appearing more often when you have low end gear. 

It does hardly any damage, even at level 75, it's easy to dodge any attacks anyway, and it's entire difficulty is basically waiting for it to take enough damage for it to die.  If you have a tanky frame you can literally face tank it, if you have any other sort of frame you just have to keep shooting it until it goes down.

The entire first paragraph needs a liberal dusting of "for me"s, otherwise you'll be accused of elitism. 

The second paragraph, begs the question "What's the setup?" Because whatever it is people are doing it without. 

The third paragraph, well look around. Behold the unholy wailing and gnashing of teeth in the outer darkness the wolf has caused even though he deals low damage, and can't hurt you if you stand upon a righteous "box" obviating any need to "dodge". Imagine the cataclysm that you would have had to weather if he was "difficult", and understand that this is why we can't have nice things. 

[LSG501]

1 minute ago, SneakyErvin said:

 

And you dont NEED to take an exalted frame, it is a choice incase you dont want to pick a weapon for it. Personally I dont use an exalted frame for him. I use whatever frame I feel like for the mission with a radiation rubico prime if I play Frost P or a radiation catchmoon for everyone else (my Frost uses corrosive+heat on his). If I didnt have any of those I'd simply equip a radiation rubico or lanka, perhaps a radiation pyrana(prime). Or I'd go with a hybrid melee with blood rush and radiation build. There are so many options to get effective radiation damage dealers for Wolf. 

Have you not noticed the weapons you're equipping...  do you happen to have a riven on your rubico prime, pyrana or catchmoon (honestly not sure why people like this), they're all very popular weapons to have rivens on. 

Frost prime can be rather tanky with the right build too...I know my icy avalanche build is.

I've got a rubico prime and it is actually radiation based along with a crit chance riven, I just don't see a reason to use a sniper rifle on the star map when there are multiple enemies, where it makes sense to be able to kill more than one at a time, so I prefer rifles and to a point shotguns.  Rifles are just not a good weapon against the wolf, my riven'd tenora (takes it over 100% crit chance) was giving about 80 damage per bullet the last time I encountered him with it and that was with radiation on the build. 

I've also tried archguns, fluctus, larkspur, imperator vandal (all forma'd etc) and with radiation.... none of them were particularly effective on the damage front either, although the imperator vandal did work well on his 3 buddies.  I think we both agreed previously that archguns should do more damage.

Melee in a lot of cases is now condition overload based, especially with melee 2.99999 allowing faster switching, from a high status secondary or even primary.  And while I do actually have a hybrid condition overload and blood rush plague zaw it's only partially useful against the wolf because it doesn't take status effects.  All a bit mute if I'm not actually running a melee though.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

10 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

Have you not noticed the weapons you're equipping...  do you happen to have a riven on your rubico prime, pyrana or catchmoon (honestly not sure why people like this), they're all very popular weapons to have rivens on. 

Catchmoon, no primed mods, no riven, 14.7k rad, 75%+ cc, 2.3x cd

Primed mods no riven, 12.3k rad, 100%+ cc, 4.6x cd (not yet max rank) 

Combined with 77% buffs from mixed use rhino..... It's not uncommon to see damage numbers around 100k on the Grineer on Sedna. 

[LSG501]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

The entire first paragraph needs a liberal dusting of "for me"s, otherwise you'll be accused of elitism. 

The second paragraph, begs the question "What's the setup?" Because whatever it is people are doing it without.  

The third paragraph, well look around. Behold the unholy wailing and gnashing of teeth in the outer darkness the wolf has caused even though he deals low damage, and can't hurt you if you stand upon a righteous "box" obviating any need to "dodge". Imagine the cataclysm that you would have had to weather if he was "difficult", and understand that this is why we can't have nice things.  

First bit, true, could have maybe used me in there but most of my clan were the same in all honesty and we're anything but 'elite end gamers'.  The thing is the stalker was supposed to be hard for a newbie and it was supposed to give you that 'oh ****' moment when it turned up, at the time it did, now it's a bit meh but that's a different matter.  The wolf doesn't do that, in most cases it's more a case of '**** a common mod again' sort of feeling at the end of a (drawn out) fight.

When you break things down there are three, actually I suppose 4, main issues cropping up in wolf 'feedback' threads, 2 of which are linked and the others are basically just DE being DE.

1. drop table/rates
2. spawn rates
3. time taken to kill him
4. needing to take specific wolf killing gear

1 and 2 are basically DE being DE, they think low spawn rates and low drop rates are the way to make people play more when in most cases it just annoys people, but that's another issue altogether because we'd need to fundamentally change DE's 'philosophy' when it comes to drop tables.

3 and 4 are linked in if you don't have a setup aimed at killing the wolf then the time taken to kill him can be excessively long, in some peoples opinion it takes too long even with the right gear. 

Personally I think it doesn't spawn often enough (although I'm sure it will be the opposite when I get the bp which is my last piece), takes far too long to kill considering what it drops and imo there is no reason for it to be as restrictive in what we need to kill it effectively.  The wolf just isn't challenging in the right way, a 'time sink' is not fun.

[(XBOX)Blueberry2006]

Decisions decisions... POLLING TIME!

A) Read this whole thread, get dizzy from all of the circles along with the off-topic and poorly formed personal attacks that makes NASA training look less nauseating

OR

B) Fight the wolf solo... no mods... no radiation weapons.... no primed jonk

Polling Ends Friday 12AM CST

[LSG501]

Just now, (XB1)Blueberry2006 said:

Decisions decisions... POLLING TIME!

A) Read this whole thread, get dizzy from all of the circles along with the off-topic and poorly formed personal attacks that makes NASA training look less nauseating

OR 

B) Fight the wolf solo... no mods... no radiation weapons.... no primed jonk 

Polling Ends Friday 12AM CST

I'd opt for B... although you'd finish A faster 😛

[Aldain]

6 minutes ago, (XB1)Blueberry2006 said:

Decisions decisions... POLLING TIME!

A) Read this whole thread, get dizzy from all of the circles along with the off-topic and poorly formed personal attacks that makes NASA training look less nauseating

OR

B) Fight the wolf solo... no mods... no radiation weapons.... no primed jonk

Polling Ends Friday 12AM CST

C) Neither, go do something better with your time than either A or B....like watch paint dry.

[EmberStar]

17 hours ago, AvaloN1101 said:

*snip*

The difference is, the Wolf isn't in a specific mission.  if you want to fight Eidolons, fine.  Take a meta frame for Eilolons, or be prepared for everyone to whine about it when you show up with Nyx.  But the Wolf can be *anywhere,* and *all the time.*  You *always* have to carry anti-wolf weapons, no matter what you're doing.  The only places you're totally safe from him are apparently the Plains and the Vallis, because none of the Hunters are permitted to spawn there at all.  Or you can *NOT* carry an anti-Wolf weapon, and just accept that you're probably totally screwed if he does show up.  Without something to punch through his completely ridiculous damage reduction, fighting him can easily take long enough to cause an Exterminate to fail, and his invincible goons will *ruin* Defense targets and extractors with their Screw U Molotovs of Instant Overpowered Death.

Honestly now that I've actually gotten to the final rewards of Nightwave, I've kind of stopped playing at all.  I'd really like to get the Operator mask the Wolf drops now, but since he's stupidly rare, and it's a stupidly rare drop, and fighting him is about as fun as trying to break down a cinderblock wall with my FACE...  I've got other stuff I'd rather be doing.  Such as basically anything that doesn't involve fighting an overpowered sack of damage reduction wrapped around a giant blob of HP and his completely invincible henchmen with their molotovs of instant death.

And if you don't mind fighting him, then I'm glad you're having fun.  I'm clearly not as awesome as you are, and the firebug little freaks only have to get lucky with the flaming death puddles ONCE for any time spent fighting him to instantly become a complete waste.