Jump to content
Acersecomic

Feedback on Wolf of Saturn Six

Recommended Posts

Just now, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Every single assassin requires that we do. It's just that many of us already take more than enough firepower to deal with them but newbs still get destroyed by them. 

The difference is a matter of degrees, nothing else. 

Hey I liked the stalker when I was a newbie, it was actually a challenge, when you get your operator (and amps) it became a cheesefest, as it should do in all honesty seeing how strong the operator is supposed to be.  The g3 and zanuka have never been a struggle, even when I was a newbie they were easy to kill... hell I had to force myself not to kill zanuka the instant it spawned one time so I could do it's mini mission.

The wolf is anything but a challenge, it's only unique mechanic is requiring a specific setup to kill it in a timely manner and appearing more often when you have low end gear. 

It does hardly any damage, even at level 75, it's easy to dodge any attacks anyway, and it's entire difficulty is basically waiting for it to take enough damage for it to die.  If you have a tanky frame you can literally face tank it, if you have any other sort of frame you just have to keep shooting it until it goes down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

Hey I liked the stalker when I was a newbie, it was actually a challenge, when you get your operator (and amps) it became a cheesefest, as it should do in all honesty seeing how strong the operator is supposed to be.  The g3 and zanuka have never been a struggle, even when I was a newbie they were easy to kill... hell I had to force myself not to kill zanuka the instant it spawned one time so I could do it's mini mission.

The wolf is anything but a challenge, it's only unique mechanic is requiring a specific setup to kill it in a timely manner and appearing more often when you have low end gear. 

It does hardly any damage, even at level 75, it's easy to dodge any attacks anyway, and it's entire difficulty is basically waiting for it to take enough damage for it to die.  If you have a tanky frame you can literally face tank it, if you have any other sort of frame you just have to keep shooting it until it goes down.

The entire first paragraph needs a liberal dusting of "for me"s, otherwise you'll be accused of elitism. 

The second paragraph, begs the question "What's the setup?" Because whatever it is people are doing it without. 

The third paragraph, well look around. Behold the unholy wailing and gnashing of teeth in the outer darkness the wolf has caused even though he deals low damage, and can't hurt you if you stand upon a righteous "box" obviating any need to "dodge". Imagine the cataclysm that you would have had to weather if he was "difficult", and understand that this is why we can't have nice things. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, SneakyErvin said:

 

And you dont NEED to take an exalted frame, it is a choice incase you dont want to pick a weapon for it. Personally I dont use an exalted frame for him. I use whatever frame I feel like for the mission with a radiation rubico prime if I play Frost P or a radiation catchmoon for everyone else (my Frost uses corrosive+heat on his). If I didnt have any of those I'd simply equip a radiation rubico or lanka, perhaps a radiation pyrana(prime). Or I'd go with a hybrid melee with blood rush and radiation build. There are so many options to get effective radiation damage dealers for Wolf. 

Have you not noticed the weapons you're equipping...  do you happen to have a riven on your rubico prime, pyrana or catchmoon (honestly not sure why people like this), they're all very popular weapons to have rivens on. 

Frost prime can be rather tanky with the right build too...I know my icy avalanche build is.

I've got a rubico prime and it is actually radiation based along with a crit chance riven, I just don't see a reason to use a sniper rifle on the star map when there are multiple enemies, where it makes sense to be able to kill more than one at a time, so I prefer rifles and to a point shotguns.  Rifles are just not a good weapon against the wolf, my riven'd tenora (takes it over 100% crit chance) was giving about 80 damage per bullet the last time I encountered him with it and that was with radiation on the build. 

I've also tried archguns, fluctus, larkspur, imperator vandal (all forma'd etc) and with radiation.... none of them were particularly effective on the damage front either, although the imperator vandal did work well on his 3 buddies.  I think we both agreed previously that archguns should do more damage.

Melee in a lot of cases is now condition overload based, especially with melee 2.99999 allowing faster switching, from a high status secondary or even primary.  And while I do actually have a hybrid condition overload and blood rush plague zaw it's only partially useful against the wolf because it doesn't take status effects.  All a bit mute if I'm not actually running a melee though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

Have you not noticed the weapons you're equipping...  do you happen to have a riven on your rubico prime, pyrana or catchmoon (honestly not sure why people like this), they're all very popular weapons to have rivens on. 

Catchmoon, no primed mods, no riven, 14.7k rad, 75%+ cc, 2.3x cd

Primed mods no riven, 12.3k rad, 100%+ cc, 4.6x cd (not yet max rank) 

Combined with 77% buffs from mixed use rhino..... It's not uncommon to see damage numbers around 100k on the Grineer on Sedna. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

The entire first paragraph needs a liberal dusting of "for me"s, otherwise you'll be accused of elitism. 

The second paragraph, begs the question "What's the setup?" Because whatever it is people are doing it without.  

The third paragraph, well look around. Behold the unholy wailing and gnashing of teeth in the outer darkness the wolf has caused even though he deals low damage, and can't hurt you if you stand upon a righteous "box" obviating any need to "dodge". Imagine the cataclysm that you would have had to weather if he was "difficult", and understand that this is why we can't have nice things.  

First bit, true, could have maybe used me in there but most of my clan were the same in all honesty and we're anything but 'elite end gamers'.  The thing is the stalker was supposed to be hard for a newbie and it was supposed to give you that 'oh ****' moment when it turned up, at the time it did, now it's a bit meh but that's a different matter.  The wolf doesn't do that, in most cases it's more a case of '**** a common mod again' sort of feeling at the end of a (drawn out) fight.

When you break things down there are three, actually I suppose 4, main issues cropping up in wolf 'feedback' threads, 2 of which are linked and the others are basically just DE being DE.

  1. drop table/rates
  2. spawn rates
  3. time taken to kill him
  4. needing to take specific wolf killing gear

1 and 2 are basically DE being DE, they think low spawn rates and low drop rates are the way to make people play more when in most cases it just annoys people, but that's another issue altogether because we'd need to fundamentally change DE's 'philosophy' when it comes to drop tables.

3 and 4 are linked in if you don't have a setup aimed at killing the wolf then the time taken to kill him can be excessively long, in some peoples opinion it takes too long even with the right gear. 

Personally I think it doesn't spawn often enough (although I'm sure it will be the opposite when I get the bp which is my last piece), takes far too long to kill considering what it drops and imo there is no reason for it to be as restrictive in what we need to kill it effectively.  The wolf just isn't challenging in the right way, a 'time sink' is not fun.

  • Applause 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Decisions decisions... POLLING TIME!

A) Read this whole thread, get dizzy from all of the circles along with the off-topic and poorly formed personal attacks that makes NASA training look less nauseating

OR

B) Fight the wolf solo... no mods... no radiation weapons.... no primed jonk

Polling Ends Friday 12AM CST

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, (XB1)Blueberry2006 said:

Decisions decisions... POLLING TIME!

A) Read this whole thread, get dizzy from all of the circles along with the off-topic and poorly formed personal attacks that makes NASA training look less nauseating

OR 

B) Fight the wolf solo... no mods... no radiation weapons.... no primed jonk 

Polling Ends Friday 12AM CST

I'd opt for B... although you'd finish A faster 😛

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, (XB1)Blueberry2006 said:

Decisions decisions... POLLING TIME!

A) Read this whole thread, get dizzy from all of the circles along with the off-topic and poorly formed personal attacks that makes NASA training look less nauseating

OR

B) Fight the wolf solo... no mods... no radiation weapons.... no primed jonk

Polling Ends Friday 12AM CST

C) Neither, go do something better with your time than either A or B....like watch paint dry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, AvaloN1101 said:

*snip*

The difference is, the Wolf isn't in a specific mission.  if you want to fight Eidolons, fine.  Take a meta frame for Eilolons, or be prepared for everyone to whine about it when you show up with Nyx.  But the Wolf can be *anywhere,* and *all the time.*  You *always* have to carry anti-wolf weapons, no matter what you're doing.  The only places you're totally safe from him are apparently the Plains and the Vallis, because none of the Hunters are permitted to spawn there at all.  Or you can *NOT* carry an anti-Wolf weapon, and just accept that you're probably totally screwed if he does show up.  Without something to punch through his completely ridiculous damage reduction, fighting him can easily take long enough to cause an Exterminate to fail, and his invincible goons will *ruin* Defense targets and extractors with their Screw U Molotovs of Instant Overpowered Death.

Honestly now that I've actually gotten to the final rewards of Nightwave, I've kind of stopped playing at all.  I'd really like to get the Operator mask the Wolf drops now, but since he's stupidly rare, and it's a stupidly rare drop, and fighting him is about as fun as trying to break down a cinderblock wall with my FACE...  I've got other stuff I'd rather be doing.  Such as basically anything that doesn't involve fighting an overpowered sack of damage reduction wrapped around a giant blob of HP and his completely invincible henchmen with their molotovs of instant death.

And if you don't mind fighting him, then I'm glad you're having fun.  I'm clearly not as awesome as you are, and the firebug little freaks only have to get lucky with the flaming death puddles ONCE for any time spent fighting him to instantly become a complete waste.

  • Applause 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

That's exactly why it is relevant. People complain that they can neither kill the Wolf nor avoid him, well, that's actually not true. Not only can you avoid him, you can level your guns faster in the process.

Best way to avoid him is to not play the game. But that's not a valid suggestion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

A lot of people are noticeably perturbed by the way the Wolf of Wallstreet was implemented. So, instead of just a bullet sponge, how else can we handle something like this? Feel free to discuss ideas and share your own.

My idea is, instead of having to build your loadout around a specific rare-spawn enemy, have it like a fighting game arcade. The best part is this is already built into the game.

Whenever he pops just slap a "HERE COMES A NEW CHALLENGER!" on the screen. Move it over to Frame Fighter, do your best 2 out of 3 and see the results.

Sure, this is silly, but it's a lot more interesting and doesn't require a loadout.

I can see this creating its own sort of problems for some people but it gave me a good laugh at least. Don't take this too seriously.

Edited by ArcKnight9202
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, zoffmode said:

Best way to avoid him is to not play the game. But that's not a valid suggestion.

Funny you should say that, someone else suggested just that when I pointed out other assassins exist. Sure, you can avoid them if you never do invasions or sorties or missions on Pluto and never touch any of the syndicates, i.e. if you major parts of the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

And I do find it really interesting that you're calling other people toxic, while demanding that they should be FORCED to do something they don't enjoy.  Yeah, I'm sure preventing people from leaving when he shows up will unless they Atl-F4 will *totally* convince people that he isn't actually a completely terrible design for an enemy.  Yep, that'll definitely be what happens.

Is there any better evidence that the Wolf has completely obliterated and fractured the community than people saying "You have to do this you whiny brat!"?

Because I'd be hard pressed to find a more a-hole move than what the person you quoted suggested.

  • Applause 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is my creative solution to him, don't make him a random spawn in any random mission.

-inb4 people shouting "You just don't like a challenge noob!"-

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Treat him like the G3, i.e. allow the player to simply run away to extraction if they don't feel like fighting him.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

Funny you should say that, someone else suggested just that when I pointed out other assassins exist. Sure, you can avoid them if you never do invasions or sorties or missions on Pluto and never touch any of the syndicates, i.e. if you major parts of the game.

That's all pretty minor parts of the game IMO. Even then, none of these assassins require you to keep specific gear on you at all times. Besides, I'm not someone else.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, zoffmode said:

That's all pretty minor parts of the game IMO. Even then, none of these assassins require you to keep specific gear on you at all times. Besides, I'm not someone else.

I was just relaying a funny anecdote. Anyway, there used to be a time when the other assassins were a serious danger. They've been left behind by power creep, which I suspect is why big brown brawny boi was introduced, to bring back that element of random danger that'd gradually disappeared from the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

I was just relaying a funny anecdote. Anyway, there used to be a time when the other assassins were a serious danger. They've been left behind by power creep, which I suspect is why big brown brawny boi was introduced, to bring back that element of random danger that'd gradually disappeared from the game.

The thing is, you never needed specific setup for any assassin. You just needed a leveled up weapon. AND that was only because MR didn't give you points in unleveled weapon. They were never a threat really.

If, as you say, Wolf was an attempt at bringing back the old assassins feel... devs need to get checked for long term memory loss.

Edited by zoffmode

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

How selfish does a person have to be to go into a high level defense mission and not take even a single way to contribute meaningfully to the killing? Is it any wonder that people have to recruit to be reasonably sure of finding a group that has members who can make it to level 20 at all?

Is this actually an issue outside of Hydron? I don't pub often so this would be news to me.

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

For the millionth time, you don't have to have the meta to contribute meaningfully, but for goodness sake take something!

My response was more in lone with the constant: Take ___ weapon/kavat/frame replies.

Before PoE were Snipers really a weapon anyone carried?

Even after PoE, since when did anyone want to bring these to missions.

I know a Sniper is NOT what I think to bring to a Defense (Hydron) mission. So when I see folks telling people "Bring a Sniper to that close quarters mission just in case that 6% spawn occurs." Just...irritates me.

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

I don't recall any spectres, buffs, revives, pizzas being tossed out, but I was on the base of the stairs so maybe I just didn't see them. 

They probably weren't tossed out. Not many new players think to use em. Even if they did have pizzas....they'd be so weak you'd never notice them. As for specters...yeah. Barely anyone uses them. Let alone add them to the gear wheel. My recent experiences teaching newbies has shown me this.

Last Hydron I did where Wolf Spawned...I ended up soloing him while another player spammed Simulor shots that did no dmg to him but successfully blinded me in the process. Haha. God that was hell...don't worry...my hard work earned us a North Wind. 😰

  • Like 4
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, zoffmode said:

The thing is, you never needed specific setup for any assassin. You just needed a leveled up weapon. AND that was only because MR didn't give you points in unleveled weapon. They were never a threat really.

If, as you say, Wolf was an attempt at bringing back the old assassins feel... devs need to get checked for long term memory damage.

It's a very different game now, though, so of course the Wolf has different mechanics than the old guys. It seems to me he does bring back that queazy feeling I remember having whenever the old Stalker showed up when I was a newbie. And hey, he's basically a mirror to the player. He says "now you know what bosses feel like when you show up as Inaros".

Edited by SordidDreams

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

Is this actually an issue outside of Hydron? I don't pub often so this would be news to me.

I have literally never been in a mission where no player doesn't at least contribute something to a mission, not counting afk leech players who do nothing at all.

Even on Hydron most people will have at least their Warframe's abilities to fall back on, and honestly, even an unranked potato'd weapon can keep up with the Grinner there for 5 wave provided damage mods are slotted in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can't argue with that drop rate argument really.

i mean, i don't mind the challenge, but if it will drop garbage, why bother?

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He's fine solo. It's just when you're in a group not armed to the teeth and he's over level 70 that it's like.. what were they thinking? If they attached some gimmick like he can only be damaged when his hammer is thrown away and is invulnerable when he catches it then fine but as he is it's no challenge, just a waiting game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When you leech a Saryn and Mesa comp as a useless Nezha, wolf spawns.

Saryn cleared 5 waves of Hydron alone.

Nezha used a Destreza to solo wolf.

Guess who had top damage at the end of the 5 waves?

Yeah, literally me, playing the Nezha, with 71% damage. Wolf has twice the HP of the total of five waves of Hydron?🤔

  • Haha 1
  • Woah 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Aldain said:

-sigh- So many people saying "Riven -weapon-" like they are easy to access and posting Riven builds like they are common.

If you mod the Dark Splitsword for Rad and Crit and go full stack on Void Stalker with Naramon, you can still waste the Wolf in no time. 

Note that the Riven I have technically accommodates two necessary mods into the same mod slot. If you can hug the Wolf without the need for Primed Reach, you can spam melee until he dies. Not only that, I have Healing Return on mine, so that’s another mod that can replaced for the purposes of dps.

Edited by (PS4)Lei-Lei_23
additional comment via last sentence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...