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Feedback on Wolf of Saturn Six

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6 hours ago, 000l000 said:

I don't know what you're talking about, i was commenting you saying lasers weren't dealing much damage to enemies,which is wrong and in Wolf particular case, a waste of potential since no one cares about players being killed by lasers as long as Wolf is insta-killed.

Which is what I am talking about, as the lasers, without serious help in the removing the enemies' armor doesn't hurt them all that much. And I gave my basis on why I believe so, as I have played that situation and had numerous 'wacky' engagements with said laser terminals.

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il y a 13 minutes, Urlan a dit :

Which is what I am talking about, as the lasers, without serious help in the removing the enemies' armor doesn't hurt them all that much. And I gave my basis on why I believe so, as I have played that situation and had numerous 'wacky' engagements with said laser terminals.

Serious help ? No, you only need a Kavat to strip Wolf armor entirely. Getting rid of his armor is only a matter of seconds, only his huge amount of HP is a serious challenge, and as i said Orokin lasers definitely destroy him. At his point i'm really questioning your objectivity.

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4 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

That's not bad luck, it's bad planning. You have been a part of this conversation long enough to know that you can safely level a frame quickly in the sanctuary. You chose to try to do it in a place where you know he has a 6% RNG based spawn rate.

one i hate the sanctuary, and two you do realized the probabilities or reason people don't choose to do sanctuary do you? one survival is easy to solo and relax with any giving weapon you want, on top of it i have a recent grudge against it when they introduced the ephemera's since blazing step ephemera comes from eso and its at the 8th mark where its a fricking headache trying to get the dang thing because everyones abusing the dang exp offerings of the dang mission node. so NO! i am not going to do onslaught. because i am a player who prefers to solo and one that prefers to use melee, and no way i am going to build that plague kirpath polarm zaw cause i just don't care about it. 

so don't force me that "just go to sanctuary; or be more prepared." bull. besides after i leveled my valkry prime i manage to get some revenge on it.

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5 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

That's not bad luck, it's bad planning. You have been a part of this conversation long enough to know that you can safely level a frame quickly in the sanctuary. You chose to try to do it in a place where you know he has a 6% RNG based spawn rate. 

on top of that you have gone on and on about 6% RNG based for a while now and used words like probability and stuff even though you forgot that everythings a probability. luck basically the same thing which the decryption is  "success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions."  . besides saying 6% RNG to someone over and over again isn't going to chance the fact that it can happen.  i am pretty sure you know of murphy's law. where everything that can go wrong will go wrong.

even if you plan or prep for something it can still go wrong. 

besides why should we overthink ourselves or over prepare in a video game.

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3 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

one i hate the sanctuary, and two you do realized the probabilities or reason people don't choose to do sanctuary do you? one survival is easy to solo and relax with any giving weapon you want, on top of it i have a recent grudge against it when they introduced the ephemera's since blazing step ephemera comes from eso and its at the 8th mark where its a fricking headache trying to get the dang thing because everyones abusing the dang exp offerings of the dang mission node. so NO! i am not going to do onslaught. because i am a player who prefers to solo and one that prefers to use melee, and no way i am going to build that plague kirpath polarm zaw cause i just don't care about it. 

so don't force me that "just go to sanctuary; or be more prepared." bull. besides after i leveled my valkry prime i manage to get some revenge on it.

Sanctuary ≠ ESO. 

And I am not forcing you, I'm pointing out the obvious option for levelling rapidly, with no risk of encountering the wolf with unlevelled gear. 

3 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

on top of that you have gone on and on about 6% RNG based for a while now and used words like probability and stuff even though you forgot that everythings a probability. luck basically the same thing which the decryption is  "success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions."  . besides saying 6% RNG to someone over and over again isn't going to chance the fact that it can happen.  i am pretty sure you know of murphy's law. where everything that can go wrong will go wrong.

even if you plan or prep for something it can still go wrong. 

besides why should we overthink ourselves or over prepare in a video game.

You're speaking like you're not understanding how probabilities work. Just like when you talked about your internet going down due to lightning storms. That's got nothing to do with the game itself. 

If I'm in a mission with an acceptable weapon and/or frame, my chances for success against the wolf, approaches certainty. You chose to go in an unlevelled frame and ended up having a a more difficult time, that's not Murphy's law, it's common sense. 

As to the question of why we should over prepare, nobody told you to over prepare. The suggestion is to not go totally unprepared if you don't want to have a more difficult time. 

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2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Sanctuary ≠ ESO. 

And I am not forcing you, I'm pointing out the obvious option for levelling rapidly, with no risk of encountering the wolf with unlevelled gear. 

i know sanctuary onslaught isn't  elite sanctuary onslaught. still have a bad experience because people ARE using it for experience and dropping out before 8th wave. which i wanted to reach because of me wanting the blazing step. but then again no one is bothing going past 4th. plus the efficiency the whole game mode is about is terrible. requiring weapons and warframes that require lots and alots of aoe which puts people like me in a bind because that shortens the choices of weapony and frames. half of the time i wish onslaughts never rewarded exp.

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

You're speaking like you're not understanding how probabilities work. Just like when you talked about your internet going down due to lightning storms. That's got nothing to do with the game itself. 

If I'm in a mission with an acceptable weapon and/or frame, my chances for success against the wolf, approaches certainty. You chose to go in an unlevelled frame and ended up having a a more difficult time, that's not Murphy's law, it's common sense. 

As to the question of why we should over prepare, nobody told you to over prepare. The suggestion is to not go totally unprepared if you don't want to have a more difficult time. 

yes i don't know much about probability. i only looked up the definition but i at least know that probability can be used with anything not just games, i think. you know what lets just stop it. we are gaining no traction arguing about what is to be blamed about wolf's it's not entirely the players fault, its not DE's fault. its just a really old mechanic of a old system that needs to be improved upon. i mean i at least made a forum advising that it's a bad idea on to have a level 60-80 or how ever the leveling goes with him to be dropped on at least new players and players that are still fresh but are floating out in the void not really knowing what to do because warframe doesn't really give a player a direction to go, just plops the player in after vors prize. i mean i remember telling a level6-12 mr player that T opens the chat menu and the person was surprised that there was a chat menu.

.... jeez i have been getting a whole lot of stress lately. between the moving anxiety, the ever ticking count down on nightwave, and this whole debate over wolf. anyways i'll just stop arguing with you. but you have to at least cease refrain from saying it's all the players fault. i mean i am not arguing that  people need to be prepared when wolf some people just want to relax and enjoy the game, most of us just want to level stuff on our favorite missions, or for some level on mission nodes they can actually access to. for a matter of fact if my friend ever gets his labtop to play its going to be impossible for him to play since his labtop crashes when he enters the portals or something. 

 

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1 minute ago, maddragonmaster said:

i know sanctuary onslaught isn't  elite sanctuary onslaught. still have a bad experience because people ARE using it for experience and dropping out before 8th wave. which i wanted to reach because of me wanting the blazing step. but then again no one is bothing going past 4th. plus the efficiency the whole game mode is about is terrible. requiring weapons and warframes that require lots and alots of aoe which puts people like me in a bind because that shortens the choices of weapony and frames. half of the time i wish onslaughts never rewarded exp.

Public runs often end up with a Saryn or two farming focus. And if your aim is to level up a frame rapidly you're not going to be in ESO, and ephemera aren't an issue. 

1 minute ago, maddragonmaster said:

yes i don't know much about probability. i only looked up the definition but i at least know that probability can be used with anything not just games, i think.

Probability can apply to all sorts of things but games like this one are built around very specific calculations that aren't going to be affected by extraneous factors. 

1 minute ago, maddragonmaster said:

you know what lets just stop it. we are gaining no traction arguing about what is to be blamed about wolf's it's not entirely the players fault, its not DE's fault. 

How is intentionally going into a mission unprepared, not the fault of the person making that choice? 

1 minute ago, maddragonmaster said:

its just a really old mechanic of a old system that needs to be improved upon.

Lolwut? It's a very new mechanic, and you can look at the build notes to see when his spawn rate went up. 

1 minute ago, maddragonmaster said:

i mean i at least made a forum advising that it's a bad idea on to have a level 60-80 or how ever the leveling goes with him to be dropped on at least new players and players that are still fresh but are floating out in the void not really knowing what to do because warframe doesn't really give a player a direction to go, just plops the play in after vors prize. i mean i remember telling a level6-12 mr player that T opens the chat menu and the person was surprised that there was a chat menu.

He scales with mission level and his spawn rate is also affected in a similar way. 

1 minute ago, maddragonmaster said:

.... jeez i have been getting a whole lot of stress lately. between the moving anxiety, the ever ticking count down on nightwave, and this whole debate over wolf. anyways i'll just stop arguing with you. but you have to at least cease refrain from saying it's all the players fault.

Would you accept it if I said that it's the fault of the players who are intentionally unprepared, instead? You still have about two weeks. 

1 minute ago, maddragonmaster said:

i mean i am not arguing that  people need to be prepared when wolf some people just want to relax and enjoy the game, most of us just want to level stuff on our favorite missions, or for some level on mission nodes they can actually access to. for a matter of fact if my friend ever gets his labtop to play its going to be impossible for him to play since his labtop crashes when he enters the portals or something. 

Then he should probably make sure to equip one piece of gear that would allow him to take down the wolf in a reasonable way for the next couple of weeks. 

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1 minute ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

How is intentionally going into a mission unprepared, not the fault of the person making that choice?

because wolf is literally a level 60-80 boss with a 6% spawn rate spawning in a mission that most people could run in with just 1 decent weapon with a decent build and a bit of survival ability on their frames even ko stalker with said ability. and then wolf was just dropped in the game where everyone was use to this way of playing. with the only way of freely leveling without this guy jumping in being sanctuary onslaught which again crashes depending on how effective a persons computer or laptop is.

11 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Lolwut? It's a very new mechanic, and you can look at the build notes to see when his spawn rate went up. 

he spawns like the invaders or assassins like wolf, g3, and zenuka so yes he is using old mechanics. if he was using an entirely new mechanic then you could of had both him and stalker spawning on you at the same time.

13 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Public runs often end up with a Saryn or two farming focus. And if your aim is to level up a frame rapidly you're not going to be in ESO, and ephemera aren't an issue.

people can still run eso with low level weapons. therefor they only stick around till those weapons are leveled up or untill their saryn or what ever they are using reaches their limits. 

18 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

He scales with mission level and his spawn rate is also affected in a similar way.

then why does the patch notes stated that their levels.... huh? it says level cap at 60-75 could of swore that i thought that it meant that it was was meaning that was what level they were only going to spawn at. that i agree is my bad.i apologize on that.

29 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Would you accept it if I said that it's the fault of the players who are intentionally unprepared, instead? You still have about two weeks.

sure if people are intentionally going in prepared without having a decent build then yes it is their fault. whether it is leaching or what not. if they don't have one decent weapon then yeah its their mistake. just like i guess it was my mistake for thinking wolf and friends where locked in the 60-75 range. not sure how i got that idea. i guess you win on that technicality. don't know why i had the thought of was only in the 60-75 range. 

well i guess your going to get a good laugh at this. while i am going to hysterically laugh while i keep the thought of of i could of fought wolf at a lower level and be able to defeat. him.

 

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The main complaints I've seen and what I suggest

Firstly:

  • Wolf is too rare and his reward table is frustrating
  • Wolf spawns are too random to be farmed 
  • People are forced to play regularly to not fall behind 
  • there is nothing to do after you get to prestige ranks 

These issues seem to be related to the not being able to reliably farm the wolf. To fix that in an interesting way end night wave with a short event for people to farm for items or standing and consider making it available early to those who get max rank. For example a WOSS6 skinned version of Acolytes of stalker, his own temporary boss node or being able to buy wolf attracting beacons. I prefer this to simply raisingng the number because it is more dynamic and solves the arguably most difficult problem, the lack of anything to do once you prestige. 

Secondly:

  • Nora is annoying
  • Tasks for nightwave are too random and feel unrelated/ time wastey

Nora needs a change she has become to repetitive. This may not work for all tasks but maybe when you  complete a night wave task spawn trigger what ever the random encounter is set up. For example when you complete a task some of the fugitives spawn. You could then tie Nora's voice lines tie in with them spawning so its more of a warning than just this random thing. Then add an option to mute Nora because no matter what you do some people will always hate her. 

Thirdly:

  • Wolf is too Tanky or difficult

Make it like G3 where you can instantly extract  and combine that with making him more common ( perhaps in the way I suggested earlier) so people don't feel the need to kill him every time. I don't really want to make him too easy or there will be no gravity to encounters. 

 

 

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Well this thread flew off the loop a bit in a day, but this isn't a whine thread, by any means. The Wolf fight is literally not fun. It's a bullet sponge fest for no reason other than to say that it is, I guess if you like throwing slashes/bullets at a thing for 5 minutes or cheesing it with one specific setup such as valkyr, which I've heard is really good for him, is fun for you, then that's cool. Most people don't find that fun, and the few that do certainly don't define the majority. I'm all for grind, as I said in my original post, but only if the grind proposes some sort of challenge, which the wolf fight does not. It's just throwing bullets at the thing until the thing falls over.

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Well I just recently killed the wolf in like 5 seconds by using invisible Loki and shooting the wolf with the tombfinger. I even completed a riven that requires being undetected at the same time. Being undetected helps do more damage from what I can tell, and that last 5 second fight proved it vs when I fight him and he sees me & becomes alert. The only part that isn’t “fun” about fighting the wolf is when he drops nothing but mods. That basically applies to all bosses and assassinations. Farming for equinox was a pain. 

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whelp. after all this time after thinking wolf and all of the assassin type characters where only going to be level 60-75 never realizing that it was simply that they they capped at those levels. to be honest i think i miss understood what happen meant at the time. still don't like the fact i can't normally level my frames at my favorite spot in eris zabala though with risking wolf spawning. i mean i like eris' infest corpus ship tilesets, it is probably the fact that they look like they have been attack by infested plague, i mean the others just look like they had a little coating of infestation and called that it, though i do understand that it would take a lot of time and money to make the same effect.

anyways i feel embarrassed about the whole thinking wolf was locked at 60 for solo and 75 for groups. i don't entirely grasp on why that happened. though i really don't want to get into a deep discussion of how that happened. still don't think its a good idea of wolf spawning on new players to players that still is new to the game but might as well been floating the game for a wolf not knowing what to do, because the only way to get help or get direction in this game is from another player that has been in this game. while this fine and dandy, i think there could be at least a few stuff that can worked to improve the game for new players. though getting into this is not what this thread is about so that will be saved for another time.

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13 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

well i guess your going to get a good laugh at this.

I'm not laughing. I'm sad. 

I'm sad because you got a lot of bad information, and much of it was posted up by players who should know better, and in some cases do know better. But many people are just going around talking trash, and saying stuff that makes it seem worse and worse, they feed off of one another and amplify the whole thing. 

It's one thing to do it when they don't know better, and there'll always be a lot of that. Because the game changes rapidly and its hard to keep up. 

But there are people sharing better information and being shouted down, or flat out ignored when they provide concrete proof. It's literally one bad excuse after another, after another and consistently blaming DE for stuff that's not real. 

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4 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

I'm not laughing. I'm sad. 

I'm sad because you got a lot of bad information, and much of it was posted up by players who should know better, and in some cases do know better. But many people are just going around talking trash, and saying stuff that makes it seem worse and worse, they feed off of one another and amplify the whole thing. 

It's one thing to do it when they don't know better, and there'll always be a lot of that. Because the game changes rapidly and its hard to keep up. 

But there are people sharing better information and being shouted down, or flat out ignored when they provide concrete proof. It's literally one bad excuse after another, after another and consistently blaming DE for stuff that's not real. 

well thanks for not ripping into me for making a mistake and making myself look well less intelligent. by mistaking what "capping at 60-75 levels" meant as all i remember seeing from the day to day dev streams is how the dev's want to attempt to make more challenging content with a higher difficulty curve. so i guess i kind of fooled myself into thinking that they did it to increase the difficulty. so well yeah, only myself fooled me.  as a certain quote i remember hearing "your your own worst enemy." or at least how i remember it. so i am my own worst enemy. as when i make mistakes i keep on insulting myself in my mind because i made myself look bad for no reason.

i think i  have a problem with understanding peoples intentions  at times as i immediately assume someone is in a sense hurt me mentally or emotionally. 

on a side note a thing i was  think off today was in the form of DE doing some more reworks with the stats they have in game adding more statistics too them, like adding spawn rates disruptions to wolf, stalker, zenuka, and g3 stating whats their spawn rate is possibly giving advice on how to manage these guys better, kind of like what they did with abilities. because like you said it is easy for people to make bad information whether they intend to or not. 

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to be honest. when i think about it. wolf is a rather heated debate, between people not happy about wolf being what people tend to call "bullet sponges" the unreliable spawn rates that cause frequent frustrations, and the feeling of that countdown ticking ever constant (even though wolf many or many not stay).

honestly i feel the reason why wolfs tankyness is an issue is because warframe is lost between meta forest, diffculty craving mountains and just want to have fun plains

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2 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

well thanks for not ripping into me for making a mistake and making myself look well less intelligent. by mistaking what "capping at 60-75 levels" meant as all i remember seeing from the day to day dev streams is how the dev's want to attempt to make more challenging content with a higher difficulty curve. so i guess i kind of fooled myself into thinking that they did it to increase the difficulty. so well yeah, only myself fooled me.  as a certain quote i remember hearing "your your own worst enemy." or at least how i remember it. so i am my own worst enemy. as when i make mistakes i keep on insulting myself in my mind because i made myself look bad for no reason.

i think i  have a problem with understanding peoples intentions  at times as i immediately assume someone is in a sense hurt me mentally or emotionally. 

on a side note a thing i was  think off today was in the form of DE doing some more reworks with the stats they have in game adding more statistics too them, like adding spawn rates disruptions to wolf, stalker, zenuka, and g3 stating whats their spawn rate is possibly giving advice on how to manage these guys better, kind of like what they did with abilities. because like you said it is easy for people to make bad information whether they intend to or not. 

You made a mistake, it happens. It's about helping one another to do better, not about tearing anyone down for no reason. 

But like I said there are people here who are doing something different. Instead of helping one another, or helping DE, all they seem to want to do is tear nightwave/woss/DE down. So instead of posting about what works or doesn't, they just shout that "x weapon that takes him down is rubbish, it can't be used", "you can only beat him if you use the dumb meta", "you can only beat him if you have a riven", "you can only beat him if you spend 40 minutes fighting", "you can only find him if you only take all perfectly levelled gear", "you can only beat him if you play solo", "you only ever see him if your gear is unlevelled" or whatever false claims they are trying to push. 

And like I said, people are falling for those claims. 

 

You seem to be making honest mistakes and trying to make suggestions based on your understanding. You're willing to give it a fair shot. Folks like you are ok, you just got bad information. Don't beat yourself up about it. 

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1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

You seem to be making honest mistakes and trying to make suggestions based on your understanding. You're willing to give it a fair shot. Folks like you are ok, you just got bad information. Don't beat yourself up about it.

thanks. 

while getting back on track. lets see here. an idea for wolf and other assassins beside improving the enemy codex to have statistics about his spawn rates and what levels he spawns at for some of the maps.

i had another idea that  was based on a point system. the best one i can use as a example of currently is stalker, if you defeat a boss you get a point and the point equals about so and so percent and the points can stack up to a sizable boost in spawn chance of the said target. even having 2 different inbox messages saying like stalker is aware of you, and another saying stalker is after you. and another thing i thought of was the idea of adding a music number that changes the default music to a theme that warns you that stalker  is about to spawn. so you have an idea that stalker is going to spawn but not when in that mission.

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On 2019-05-03 at 1:10 AM, Solarsyphon said:

The main complaints I've seen and what I suggest

Firstly:

  • Wolf is too rare and his reward table is frustrating
  • Wolf spawns are too random to be farmed 
  • People are forced to play regularly to not fall behind 
  • there is nothing to do after you get to prestige ranks 

These issues seem to be related to the not being able to reliably farm the wolf. To fix that in an interesting way end night wave with a short event for people to farm for items or standing and consider making it available early to those who get max rank. For example a WOSS6 skinned version of Acolytes of stalker, his own temporary boss node or being able to buy wolf attracting beacons. I prefer this to simply raisingng the number because it is more dynamic and solves the arguably most difficult problem, the lack of anything to do once you prestige. 

Secondly:

  • Nora is annoying
  • Tasks for nightwave are too random and feel unrelated/ time wastey

Nora needs a change she has become to repetitive. This may not work for all tasks but maybe when you  complete a night wave task spawn trigger what ever the random encounter is set up. For example when you complete a task some of the fugitives spawn. You could then tie Nora's voice lines tie in with them spawning so its more of a warning than just this random thing. Then add an option to mute Nora because no matter what you do some people will always hate her. 

Thirdly:

  • Wolf is too Tanky or difficult

Make it like G3 where you can instantly extract  and combine that with making him more common ( perhaps in the way I suggested earlier) so people don't feel the need to kill him every time. I don't really want to make him too easy or there will be no gravity to encounters. 

 

 

Great points! On the topic of him being tanky, I have tested that at least this update, Wolf is no longer susceptible to Sundering Dash as well, so his armor can not be reduced this way. If anyone sees him, could they update with whether the Kavat Shredding Claws or Shattering Impact work still now?

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The Wolf is also dumber than a bag of hammers, AI-wise.

 

Here's a trick for you. You'll need a 'Frame with a Sentinel, you'll need to have finished the Transference quests, and you'll (ideally) need a teammate.

 

Have the teammate kite the Wolf's posse away. It's pretty easy. Now, lure the Wolf off somewhere else, and jump out of your Warframe and get out of the way. The Wolf will be aggro'd by your Sentinel and attack your unoccupied Warframe... which is invincible and can't be damaged. Sure, the Sentinel's still zapping the Wolf, but with his huge health pool that's not an issue, right?

 

Except that you can void-beam his sorry butt into paste and he won't aggro on the Operator unless you get too close. If he starts to suck you in with Whirlwind, Void Dash away and hold fire until the Sentinel aggro's him again. The Wolf will stubbornly flail away at your 'Frame, while you pound on him with void-bolts till he falls over.

 

I'm not gonna lie. I would feel bad about this, but the Wolf is such an irritating damage sponge I really don't feel any guilt about manipulating him. I've seen better tactical awareness from Clem.

 

I kinda enjoy Nora though. I find her voice oddly soothing 🙂

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1 hour ago, DrunkenFirebat said:

The Wolf is also dumber than a bag of hammers, AI-wise.

 

Here's a trick for you. You'll need a 'Frame with a Sentinel, you'll need to have finished the Transference quests, and you'll (ideally) need a teammate.

 

Have the teammate kite the Wolf's posse away. It's pretty easy. Now, lure the Wolf off somewhere else, and jump out of your Warframe and get out of the way. The Wolf will be aggro'd by your Sentinel and attack your unoccupied Warframe... which is invincible and can't be damaged. Sure, the Sentinel's still zapping the Wolf, but with his huge health pool that's not an issue, right?

 

Except that you can void-beam his sorry butt into paste and he won't aggro on the Operator unless you get too close. If he starts to suck you in with Whirlwind, Void Dash away and hold fire until the Sentinel aggro's him again. The Wolf will stubbornly flail away at your 'Frame, while you pound on him with void-bolts till he falls over.

 

I'm not gonna lie. I would feel bad about this, but the Wolf is such an irritating damage sponge I really don't feel any guilt about manipulating him. I've seen better tactical awareness from Clem.

 

I kinda enjoy Nora though. I find her voice oddly soothing 🙂

A good idea also would to be if you could acquire a void to cold damage arcane. On a side note was able to hurt wolf with the banshee prime sidearm that I can’t remember the name of with out looking it up.

Also I look up wolfs damage resistances and puncture cold and radiation are his weaknesses so ideally you want to build a puncture based weapon with those damage and crit. 

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