Getting back old Ash

[DimosZargarda]

Hey guys, ive been around since closed Beta and either loved all the changes DE made to the game, or didnt care enough to give it a second thought. One thing however happened a few months ago that hit me hard, and thats the changes they made to Ash.

Im talking here about his 4th ability, in the old days it was a combination of his current third and fourth, and yeah, it might have been slithly OP (not nearly as much as a handful of frames today) but damm was it cool! Today he needs to activate the 4th, then aim at the enemies (and for whatever reason, not blast them off with his weapon) and then release once he has enough of them targeted, and then activate his third to join the clones, instead of pressing his 4th, lean back, and enjoy the show.

So it kinda hit me by surprise that DE would change this, as Warframe was never a competetive game, but a pure fun one. And Ashes 4th was what made him so damm fun/badass to play as, I mean, we all ninjas here, but he always was the real one.

Today when I look around, I barely see an Ash in my group, the plains or fortuna, and im sure that his popularity has decreased because of this change. And thats a real shame, considering how popular he used to be.

So if any of you guys feel the same way, throw in a comment and lets try grab DE ´ s attention, and they might reverse this.

Edited April 2, 2019 by DimosZargarda

[(PSN)Grnmchn1]

I never had the chance to play his 4 the old way. As soon as u started playing Ash his 4 was changed 😞

[(PSN)dursereg]

Name a single nerf DE has reverted. Ash is just another frame the whiners cried about till it was nerf into the ground.

[-AiLuoLi-]

Nobody play Ash because by the time you finished marking enemies, everyone's dead to Saryn.

[DimosZargarda]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)sealed_jsword1 said:

I never had the chance to play his 4 the old way. As soon as u started playing Ash his 4 was changed 😞

It was beautiful, you look at an enemy group and press 4, then u see Ash jump from one target to another impaling them in his hidden blade, while picking up all the loot around them

1 minute ago, (PS4)dursereg said:

Name a single nerf DE has reverted. Ash is just another frame the whiners cried about till it was nerf into the ground.

Which is so weird that ppl whine in a non competetive game. I always thought Saryn was op, she wipes an entire room with 1 button, but any of us could do the same if we pick her, so who cares?

[LogaMC1995]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)sealed_jsword1 said:

I never had the chance to play his 4 the old way. As soon as u started playing Ash his 4 was changed 😞

This is how it looks/feels

 

 

[VentiGlondi]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)sealed_jsword1 said:

I never had the chance to play his 4 the old way. As soon as u started playing Ash his 4 was changed 😞

It made you watch a minute long cutscene that made you invulnerable while it played.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

I agree Ash was popular, in mogamu`s vid when he got ppl to choose their fav warframe he hit the no 1 spot now if you watch life of rio`s vid, he`s one of the lest used frames.

Here is the problems with his bs old VS present;

Old bs

You could not skip the animation. (me personally I love them so this is not a prob for me)

in a high levels with a ancient healer, it would take him two mins to kill.

Other ppl could not take his kills (which I don`t have a issue with)

 

Present bs

The marking process makes bs slow, in a fast-pasted game THIS IS BAD. 

Other players can take their kills before you get a chance to kill them. 

Bodies disappearing makes it to where you can`t bring him in a desecrating team with a nekros. 

The indicator shows how many marks instead of how many enemies affected by bs. 

Using your 2nd ability to use less energy is not synergy. Synergy is a choice; this so-called synergy is a must. 

Using the 3rd ability to be in the animation costs no energy but you need energy to be able to use it. Make that make sense.

Apparitions "clones" appearance is not consistent. (the old and present have this prob)

 

As you can see, their are more problems with the present bs then the old one (even the damage of the old bs was better) in which I see this re-visit as a nerf A BAD ONE.

The common sense thing to do to re-visit him is to give the option to press the ability again to skip the animation and other ppl can take his kills. If this was implemented, no one would have an issue with Ash.

@DimosZargarda Do you want to know how I would re-vist ash`s abilities? it`s up to you.

[HorridaMessor]

You really want the problem of Ash locking Ancient Eximi with such "pleasant" auras as Energy Leach and Toxic in invulernability while he slowly chips their health away back? Or you really want that nausea inducing cutscene back?

And on plains/orb vallis his old 4 would be useless (especially on OV) due to the sheer distance between enemy groups 

Edited April 2, 2019 by HorridaMessor

[Lion]

53 minutes ago, (PS4)dursereg said:

Name a single nerf DE has reverted. Ash is just another frame the whiners cried about till it was nerf into the ground.

And yet he's still one of the strongest around.

 

[zoffmode]

I'm one of old Ash players who likes the current rework much more. Old playstyle was literally just hit 4 and then sip on some tea then repeat in a minute. Once you get used to current Blade Storm, it's actually pretty fun. It's just not a lazy frame anymore like current Mesa. And even Mesa they reworked to be slightly more input (not much difference for her tho tbh).

Edited April 2, 2019 by zoffmode

[BiancaRoughfin]

2 hours ago, DimosZargarda said:

Hey guys, ive been around since closed Beta and either loved all the changes DE made to the game, or didnt care enough to give it a second thought. One thing however happened a few months ago that hit me hard, and thats the changes they made to Ash.

Im talking here about his 4th ability, in the old days it was a combination of his current third and fourth, and yeah, it might have been slithly OP (not nearly as much as a handful of frames today) but damm was it cool! Today he needs to activate the 4th, then aim at the enemies (and for whatever reason, not blast them off with his weapon) and then release once he has enough of them targeted, and then activate his third to join the clones, instead of pressing his 4th, lean back, and enjoy the show.

So it kinda hit me by surprise that DE would change this, as Warframe was never a competetive game, but a pure fun one. And Ashes 4th was what made him so damm fun/badass to play as, I mean, we all ninjas here, but he always was the real one.

Seriously, the best think [DE] did to Ash was nerf his 4th ability. Having an Ash in the team was a waste of player slot as they did nothing to help the team. They did nothing other than stand on top of some object in the map spamming 4 and in many irradiated Defense/M-Def/Interception missions were the cause of failure as they would down the whole team and many times even kill the defense targets. On interception they would often lose their bases as the 4th ability prioritized targets that were further and some enemy would be standing at their feet hacking a console wile they didnt bother aiming down to Shoot.

At that time, if it depended i would have the game lock the player into Solo mode when picking Ash.

2 hours ago, DimosZargarda said:

Today when I look around, I barely see an Ash in my group, the plains or fortuna, and im sure that his popularity has decreased because of this change. And thats a real shame, considering how popular he used to be.

Because they probably have tendinites from all those years doing the same movement pressing a single key and now they cant bare the pain of having to move more than one finger to play him.

2 hours ago, DimosZargarda said:

So if any of you guys feel the same way, throw in a comment and lets try grab DE ´ s attention, and they might reverse this.

Hell no!

[Teljaxx]

I would much rather have Bladestorm as it is now. The old "press 4, then go make a sandwich while the game wins itself" version was super boring.

Even the new one isn't that much more complicated. Simply press 4, wiggle your mouse, then press 4 again. Its not like you have to aim perfectly straight at every single enemy for ten seconds to mark them, or something. And, the best part is that now you can still do other things while all his clones kill stuff.

[SemperSupra]

RIP Blade Storm.

[SenorClipClop]

3 hours ago, DimosZargarda said:

pressing his 4th, lean back, and enjoy the show

That's why they changed it.

3 hours ago, DimosZargarda said:

Today when I look around, I barely see an Ash in my group, the plains or fortuna, and im sure that his popularity has decreased because of this change.

You're right. He was popular specifically because he could make Warframe into a one-button idle game and sported edgelord looks to boot. I gotta say, I like Ash a lot more now, but I don't really play him very much. This is because as a general run-around frame he's still kinda overpowered. It feels overmuch to be taking a decently-built Ash into anything under Level 60, imo, because he does piles of Finisher damage and he Slash procs for days.

[SenorClipClop]

2 hours ago, (PS4)dursereg said:

Name a single nerf DE has reverted.

Kinda of a dumb flex here. DE doesn't "revert a nerf" in the snse that they nerf something and then buff it again so it functions as exactly as before. They usually buff by making things a bit smarter, more evolved. In this case, I can name a few things that were nerfed, then buffed again:

• Gara's MV used to be invincible and Duration-based. Since this made defending points trivial, they removed duration and gave it a Health bar. Then it was too weak, so they buffed it so it now scales on the Health of affected ("glassed") enemies.
• Volt. Just all of Volt. He was a strong nuker, then he was nerfed, then changed, then nerfed and changed, changed again, and now he's functional as a high-damage nuker again.
• Peacemaker's interaction with Arcane Velocity. Hey, this actually was a nerf that was reverted, and it happened like 2 weeks ago. The interaction is a long-debated topic among the creative team, apparently, and may undergo future changes, but it's sitting strong right now.

[(PSN)Apoleon_amarr]

Female ash? Hell yeah

 

Wait a minute, you are talking about the other ash, meh im disappointed

[DimosZargarda]

38 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

Kinda of a dumb flex here. DE doesn't "revert a nerf" in the snse that they nerf something and then buff it again so it functions as exactly as before. They usually buff by making things a bit smarter, more evolved. In this case, I can name a few things that were nerfed, then buffed again:

• Gara's MV used to be invincible and Duration-based. Since this made defending points trivial, they removed duration and gave it a Health bar. Then it was too weak, so they buffed it so it now scales on the Health of affected ("glassed") enemies.
• Volt. Just all of Volt. He was a strong nuker, then he was nerfed, then changed, then nerfed and changed, changed again, and now he's functional as a high-damage nuker again.
• Peacemaker's interaction with Arcane Velocity. Hey, this actually was a nerf that was reverted, and it happened like 2 weeks ago. The interaction is a long-debated topic among the creative team, apparently, and may undergo future changes, but it's sitting strong right now.

So it seems Ash might change again, as im sure they see the numbers on how many ppl still play him. At this point getting the old 4 or, as some in the thread said, spawning clones to attack enemies, hell, il take anything thats diffrent than then current one. This be good news

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

As someone that has been playing Ash for 4 years, I much prefer current Bladestorm over the repetitive/nauseous mess old bladestorm was. What most people fail to understand is that:

Ease of use =/= More useful

The only thing old bladestorm had which made it good compared to it's current iteration is it's instant cast, other than that the ability is flat out inferior to what we have now. 

Current Bladestorm is better because:

1. It let's you choose to join the animations or progress the mission or kill other enemies in the meantime for more DPS.

2. It's synergy with finisher Arcanes like Trickery got 2x better cuz now Ash is the only frame in the game to not only have the best ability to proc it but he doesn't even have to do the finisher attacks in the first place.

3. The Bladestorm animations have a faster cap(3 vs 18) so you don't have to worry about being locked into nauseous rapid camera movement for 15+ seconds while your team leaves you behind and kill everything.

4. Believe it or not but did you know that Old Bladestorm's rapid finisher animations on enemies prevented it's slash procs from dealing damage to them until the ability was over? This is why it takes almost 20 seconds to kill a group of level 100 heavy gunners with old bladestorm but current Bladestorm only takes like 7 seconds to kill them.

 

Say whatever you want but old bladestorm was only useful for low level missions compared to what we have currently.

[Redfeather75]

Ash's Ultimate was an amazing emergency move.

Very strategic way to avoid death/knockdown/etc.

I stopped playing Ash after it was changed.

It was changed because warframe seems to be all about DPS, DPS, do MOAR DPS for every frame.

[Redfeather75]

The method of having to...

1. Cast ultimate
2. Target enemy that is marked but not dead yet
3. Cast teleport

Does not work well.

It can be fixed just as easy as TAP key to old ultimate, HOLD key to new ultimate. And get rid of all that target enemy during bladestorm and if they are marked use teleport code. That is convoluted and Ash needs the KISS principle. 🤣

 

Edited April 2, 2019 by Redfeather75

[Hypernaut1]

Old Bladestorm was BS. I once played on a potato laptop getting like 6 fps, to take part in an tactical alert while I was away, and I still managed top kills by just randomly pressing 4 at slide show groups of enemies. It was one of those high level survival or defenses or something. I literally wasnt truly playing and just p4tw...and I "won". 

New BS is far more balanced and actually more powerful because you can attach other targets while clones go to work

[zoffmode]

3 minutes ago, Redfeather75 said:

The method of having to...

1. Cast ultimate
2. Target enemy that is marked but not dead yet
3. Cast teleport

Does not work well.

It can be fixed just as easy as TAP key to old ultimate, HOLD key to new ultimate. And get rid of all that target enemy during bladestorm and if they are marked use teleport code anymore.

New emergency button is Fatal Teleport since you're immune while executing. Plus you get to proc Arcane Trickery and Arcane Ultimatum. 

[Redfeather75]

7 minutes ago, zoffmode said:

New emergency button is Fatal Teleport since you're immune while executing. Plus you get to proc Arcane Trickery and Arcane Ultimatum.  

If a player has those Arcanes they don't need any emergency moves. Bladestorm will give perma stealth and EHP boost.

I am talking about how shields fully recharged during bladestorm cutscene and vacuum on sentinel collected all power-ups around every single marked enemy during bladestorm. All it required was marking enemies and buffering that energy to keep them marked until emergency. Bladestorm was twitch recovery to the max. I could survive a nuclear bomb strike with tactical use of it. 🤣

But warframe is constantly MOAR DPS, kill rooms faster, go go go, this ULT sucks because it doesn't kill fast enough and it pauses gameplay. So it was changed.

Edited April 2, 2019 by Redfeather75

[DimosZargarda]

15 minutes ago, (XB1)Angryspy101 said:

As someone that has been playing Ash for 4 years, I much prefer current Bladestorm over the repetitive/nauseous mess old bladestorm was. What most people fail to understand is that:

Ease of use =/= More useful

The only thing old bladestorm had which made it good compared to it's current iteration is it's instant cast, other than that the ability is flat out inferior to what we have now. 

Current Bladestorm is better because:

1. It let's you choose to join the animations or progress the mission or kill other enemies in the meantime for more DPS.

2. It's synergy with finisher Arcanes like Trickery got 2x better cuz now Ash is the only frame in the game to not only have the best ability to proc it but he doesn't even have to do the finisher attacks in the first place.

3. The Bladestorm animations have a faster cap(3 vs 18) so you don't have to worry about being locked into nauseous rapid camera movement for 15+ seconds while your team leaves you behind and kill everything.

4. Believe it or not but did you know that Old Bladestorm's rapid finisher animations on enemies prevented it's slash procs from dealing damage to them until the ability was over? This is why it takes almost 20 seconds to kill a group of level 100 heavy gunners with old bladestorm but current Bladestorm only takes like 7 seconds to kill them.

 

Say whatever you want but old bladestorm was only useful for low level missions compared to what we have currently.

Currently taking time to mark enemies for Blade Storm is a waste, since you could easy kill them off with your primary/secondary before they are all marked, back then you could spamm it all you want, all you needed was 1 target and the rest gets marked depending on your reach mods.

Note that idc at all about whats op and what not, in my topic I stated multiple times that for me, its about the cool factor that Ash had with the 4th.

We can argue here all day, but fact is that Ash has become a very rare Warframe compared what he used to be, it cant be what DE intended. And this is what this is about, in a none competetive game, there should not be nerfs/changes that completly make a Warframe undesirable