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[DE]Connor

April 2019 Riven Disposition Updates

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  1. Gives entire community kitgun rivens as a devstream gift
  2. Hmm, kitguns are really popular and everyone is using rivens on them. Wonder why, must be OP. We should nerf them.
  3. ...........
  4. Grofit?
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Honestly DE should just stop nerfing rivens at dispo 1. They are already Super bad. I mean my ARca plasmor riven went from 60 CC 60 CD 60 toxin and negative to 50 50 50... i mean it'ds already so bad !!! i get nerfing the dispo 5 4 and 3 ! as they really give a huge benefit, but low dispo already give VERY little and are not overpowered ! You could argue that a 90% mod would be better than what i have ! ( maybe not but close ). Please stop nerfing weak rivens already. Cap the low end at 0.8 or so. 

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As someone who is not affected by these changes, I still feel the need to speak up.

DE, you are basically dictating what weapons you want players to use. Your tools are based on popularity usage, right? If that's the case, you're telling players that you don't like their choices and you want that to change. I mean absolutely no disrespect in my words, so please don't take it that way.

Rivens are a very HUGE bandaid over a balance issue that stems from not knowing how to make Warframe powers and weapons mingle together cohesively.

You can't stop min/maxers and/or the creation of a meta. You can, however, create an atmosphere of distrust and disdain by continuing to show players that their choices in game should reflect your own.

As mentioned before, if a weapon is too strong/weak take a look at that specific weapon and see why. Adjust the weapon itself (which is what should have been done instead of rivens in the first place).

Overall I feel these changes are just creating more frustration across the player base. I'm wondering if resources could be better spent on coming up with a larger plan to rework weapons entirely so the bandaid that is rivens is not needed anymore.

Just my thoughts, again no disrespect was intended or reflected in my words.

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27 minutes ago, TuxedoCatfish said:

Making rivens lock in their stats when they're rolled is a terrible idea. It incentivizes an absolutely insane amount of grinding and hoarding and creates an even more exclusive two-tiered system than rivens already are. It'd be Primed Chamber all over again.

Players work hard to farm Kuvas and/or spend platinum to acquire them. What have you worked on for your own Riven inventory? Others good Rivens do not affect your game play if you don't like them at the first place. 

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Now we talkin' . But all imballanced weapons are stay in meta , so this is not really useful, but when rubico will be 0.65 or 0.5 this can throw her from top of riven price 

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hmm....no major drops on my or my brother's end(his dread is now uber powerful. i mean it already was, but now it's just 1% over 200% CC)

 

the snipers got their dispo nerfed? oh well, the guns listed are already stupid powerful, so losing dispo isn't going to change that. my rubico prime and vulkar wraith already do amazingly well without rivens, so no big loss other than time.  they'll still nearly one shot anything other than an Eidolon.

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RIP all kitguns hahahahhaha

also, why nerf weapons that already have riven dispo1 or 2? its already complete trash and not worth having a riven for those kinds of dispos so why nerf it even further making them even more useless to have rivens for.

riven dispo1 rivens is gonna give you worse stats than simply putting one 90% mod or one vigilante armaments in the rivens place LUL

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Posted (edited)

I am not sure why do u still nerf based on popularity.

Lemme explain 2 things.
1. I won't stop using Arca, no matter how much riven is nerfed or any weapon that I like, such as Pyrana.
And I believe I'm not the only one with this mindset.
2. I spent a lot of time having equipped secondary and primary, while I used just melee. So how can u possibly tell what is popular?


Base riven on actual stats. Higher base they have, different cap on a riven. Which would make weapons with great stats not being op and in front of other weapons.
Also stop nerfing snipers. THE ONLY USE THEY HAVE ARE EIDOLONS. Tf, am I supposed to hit limbs with grakata or what?

I really wish u look more into feedback regarding these changes and rivens overall, instead of making players unhappy. At the end, I'll just toss out rivens. But for ppl like me, that have everything, rivens are pretty much the only thing to spend plat on.
Also, when u go over all of that trouble to keep watching 'popularity of weapons', where is the list so players can see how much is some weapon used globally?

Edited by Vengeance_A
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7 minutes ago, George_PPS said:

Players work hard to farm Kuvas and/or spend platinum to acquire them. What have you worked on for your own Riven inventory? Others good Rivens do not affect your game play if you don't like them at the first place. 

I have a Rubico riven that I paid 2900p for. It has 130 rolls on it. I'm just smart enough to realize that the health of the game is more important than my investment in imaginary space guns.

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thanks for giving us an opertunity to understand ur work :)

i can understand all but 1 disposition change: the sicarus

such a strong nerf is way too much especially considering that it was already nerfed last time and sicarus can only compete with other weapons with a high disposition because it has only 8x3 shots in its mag with a 2s reload which is quite a lot for this fast game and such a small mag

considering it has no explosion or any way to deal splash damage it is a single target weapon and therefore a higher disposition is needed cause it has to be able to kill an strong enemy with at max 1 mag otherwise it is almost useless

so pls take into account that single target weapons (like sicarus) need a higher disposition even if it seems to be too strong

sincerely

Sterni :)

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3 minutes ago, CasiusFaux said:

Rivens were always intended to change.

Oh, so it's about what was intended, huh? Better delete Fetch.

6 minutes ago, Zyneris said:

As someone who is not affected by these changes, I still feel the need to speak up.

DE, you are basically dictating what weapons you want players to use. Your tools are based on popularity usage, right? If that's the case, you're telling players that you don't like their choices and you want that to change. I mean absolutely no disrespect in my words, so please don't take it that way.

Rivens are a very HUGE bandaid over a balance issue that stems from not knowing how to make Warframe powers and weapons mingle together cohesively.

You can't stop min/maxers and/or the creation of a meta. You can, however, create an atmosphere of distrust and disdain by continuing to show players that their choices in game should reflect your own.

As mentioned before, if a weapon is too strong/weak take a look at that specific weapon and see why. Adjust the weapon itself (which is what should have been done instead of rivens in the first place).

Overall I feel these changes are just creating more frustration across the player base. I'm wondering if resources could be better spent on coming up with a larger plan to rework weapons entirely so the bandaid that is rivens is not needed anymore.

Just my thoughts, again no disrespect was intended or reflected in my words.

This is great in theory, but in reality it's just going to result in the Plasmor and similar weapons with an inflated sense of worth and mediocre scaling getting Ember'd. While the riven system itself is flawed, the actual balancing of it as intended is also flawed and that would just be offset onto the weapons themselves. 😕

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Gerade eben schrieb (NSW)Ryuuzaki:

Regular updates are healthy, but we still need a better or more ways to farm kuva.

yes the current kuva farm is a bit slow it should be like 1,5x better or so

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Posted (edited)

i'm still going to ultimately end up laughing at the number changes to most Riven adjustments.

  • Weapons in recent times are all released with Stats that make sure everybody wants a Riven to fix something dumb about the Weapon that shouldn't be a problem for its Weapon Type.
  • popularity being involved in the decisions at all, except in extreme cases. Weapons that aren't popular in the first place getting changed up or down basically at all is kinda just hilarious. what, did 0.1% of the Playerbase using or not using __ mean that Rivens should change? still a lot of knee jerk in it.
    • i.e. some things get nerfed or don't for popularity while others are untouched because they aren't popular in some Youtube Video or because of whatever people are involved with the decisions are allowed to put their personal Weapon preference bias in, defeating the entire purpose. 'math involved' and yet sometimes seemingly not.
  • Weapons are usually rather quick to get nerfed because of some Youtube Video or whatever, but Weapons that have basically deplorable Rivens and don't have any sort of abuse or overuse plausible in its future... would take years for them to get Rivens moved to about where they should be in the first place.

which all kinda boils back down to the same that Rivens would be way better off being determined exclusively on the actual power of the Weapon, determined by a mixture of math and contrasting opinions (because any one person has a biased vendetta against things they don't like). and the Riven Multipliers determined appropriate by that, are set and never adjusted again.
ofcourse, y'all make this way more complicated for yourselves because you insist that the game needs Powercreep every 3 months (or sooner). all of these alternative models of Equipment that are no longer alternative, they're always direct upgrades. and if you're going to insist on that then..... well you're either just forever up s... creek no matter what you do with Rivens, or you like, split them further so the direct upgrade models don't throw everything you do on Day A out of the window when on Day B you decide to double or triple the Stats of something because reasons.

 

but, maybe one of the best things that could be done is.... don't give Weapons Stats that force Players to get Rivens for their Weapons. people have Rivens for so many Weapons to hit a lot of breakpoints, not on just a couple Weapons that you hear about in some Youtube Video. Riven changes tend to drop nuclear weapons on breakpoints of all sorts of Weapons. because a lot of Stats have breakpointing type zones in them.
but anyways, you could solve like half of the problem in the first place, if for example, Sniper Rifles didn't need a Riven to Crit (because if they don't Crit they're useless), high-ish Status Weapons didn't need a Riven to have flexible Damage Types, area coverage sort of Weapons didn't need a Riven to have enough Projectiles to get that area coverage, some Weapons that practically mandate using this or that type of Utility Mod in order to make them remotely practical to use didn't need a Riven to make that mandated Utility fit reasonably.......
the list goes on and on. if you specifically give Weapons Stats that make them have trouble performing their intended roles without a Riven to give you some extra Stats to fill in the hole that's left..... well then duh Rivens will get used a lot. because in order to use those Weapons correctly and even seemingly as intended, you have to have a Riven with some certain Stats.
this'll just always be a mess if Players will be forced to have Rivens, but then also punished for having them and eventually the Rivens not even being able to fix those Weapons that the Player was forced to try and fix.

 

Edit:
oh, and just remember that, the more League of Legends style "anti-meta" """balancing""" Warframe does, the less balanced it will be.
don't take guidance hints from League of Legends - that's instead actually an example of how to do it completely wrong.
it works for Riot, since their goal is only to rotate what people use around in a circle so that people buy all of the Skins and crap. it's great for profits, since it manipulates people around into buying everything in the game.
and it lets them pretend they're addressing balance because they nerfed what people were whining about, and picked something to buff in trade. but it has absolutely no impact on actual balance whatsoever. nerfing A and bufffing B is the same situation - you aren't ""fixing a meta"" by those sorts of changes, you're just moving what people use. LoL style 'balance' to the letter.
i have no professional respect for Riot Games whatsoever. it's profitable, but also a deplorable thing to do to a game, and doesn't do anything for balance at all.

Edited by taiiat
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2 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Rattleguts: 1->0.9

 

I think more attention could be taken as to the circumstances of why a specific weapon is being used.

Rattleguts is being used because there are few good full-auto secondary options. It also addresses a game-wide problem of Ammo Economy.

Weapon classes like Assault Rifles are inherently bad because of ammo Economy. I bet if you run numbers you'll find a large amount of players using that gun are also using Pax Charge. This is aside from the only good alternative being Akstiletto Prime or P. Twin Gremlins. Twin Grakatas while being decent on DPS are probably the worst offenders of ammo economy problems. Rattleguts is not a strong weapon but it is a strong full-auto Secondary because we've little to compare with.

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30 minutes ago, George_PPS said:

it's absolutely terrible to degrade players' existing Riven inventory. Players work hard and long to get/buy/roll them.

Like idiots. I feel sorry for no moron that buys a riven knowing that it is built on shaky grounds. It is a bad investment and they should suffer the consequences, and I say this as a person who had his Gas vulkar that just rolled 3 days ago SMACKED. Big sad

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Rattleguts is an insanely strong weapon on top of having basically no drawbacks in terms of usability / how it feels to shoot with the minor exception of reload time.

Kitguns in general are all really strong except for the Gaze, which is merely okay (which is to say, it's about as good as a well-balanced normal secondary would be.) I've been expecting a nerf to their dispo basically since Fortuna came out.

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My biggest issue with rivens and kitgun rivens in particular, is that 90-95% of the playerbase probably doesn't even have a riven for any of their kitguns, but they still use them because they are simply stronger than most of the other weapons, plus you have the option to run with Pax Seeker for added destruction and room clear. So by nerfing the disposition on these rivens, what exactly did you achieve @DE other then pissing off all the people that have rolled their rivens hundreds of times or paid thousands of platinum for them. Those that use kitguns without a riven won't be affected by these changes at all, and they will keep nuking everything in their path, while those that have rivens will have to watch as their favourite riven's disposition slowly turns to 0.5 and all the money/time/effort that they put into them becomes wasted, and once that happens maybe people and DE will realise that rivens were not(aren't) the source of the problem, but rather the lack of competition, as kitguns are simply some of the best if not the best secondarys in the game with or without a riven. So how about we get some buffs on the stats and i emphasize that STATS of our weaker/less popular weapons instead of nerfing everything that people enjoy and have worked hard for and try to have fun with. 

An argument could be made as to why exactly was the disposition on the most popular sniper rifles nerfed? I mean just come on, how often do you see anybody running with a lanka a rubico or a vectis in a normal or endless mission, i'd say never. So by nerfing the riven disposition on these weapons, you nerf the "only" valuable aspect of these weapons which is eidolon hunting. So why not just straight up remove sniper rifles and their rivens from the game, because nobody is using them in normal missions, and YOU(DE) clearly don't want us(the community) to use them so what's the point?

Now the kitgun or sniper rifle nerf doesn't effect me, but i can see why it'd piss so many people off, as i have a Lato riven with over 230 rolls on it.(yes a lato), and honestly, i have never in my life seen anyone else, other than me run the Lato or the Lato Vandal.

Sorry my long rant, have a good one!

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I feel like a lot of the people upset about the changes are the ones that paid thousands of plat for a single mod. While I understand that a drop in the value of a valuable mod is a big blow, I can't understand how some people can afford to drop a hundred bucks for a mod.

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2 hours ago, Airwolfen said:

Yay. the Kohm is spared a demise once again

Luckily they see that a dispo change would kill it.

WTB Kohm riven, I will sell you all my meta rivens for it. +plat because if your selling a guaranteed dispo weapon, I should compensate you for taking my future trash rivens. 

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4 minutes ago, taiiat said:

i'm still going to ultimately end up laughing at the number changes to most Riven adjustments.

  • Weapons in recent times are all released with Stats that make sure everybody wants a Riven to fix something dumb about the Weapon that shouldn't be a problem for its Weapon Type.
  • popularity being involved in the decisions at all, except in extreme cases. Weapons that aren't popular in the first place getting changed up or down basically at all is kinda just hilarious. what, did 0.1% of the Playerbase using or not using __ mean that Rivens should change? still a lot of knee jerk in it.
    • i.e. some things get nerfed or don't for popularity while others are untouched because they aren't popular in some Youtube Video or because of whatever people are involved with the decisions are allowed to put their personal Weapon preference bias in, defeating the entire purpose. 'math involved' and yet sometimes seemingly not.
  • Weapons are usually rather quick to get nerfed because of some Youtube Video or whatever, but Weapons that have basically deplorable Rivens and don't have any sort of abuse or overuse plausible in its future... would take years for them to get Rivens moved to about where they should be in the first place.

which all kinda boils back down to the same that Rivens would be way better off being determined exclusively on the actual power of the Weapon, determined by a mixture of math and contrasting opinions (because any one person has a biased vendetta against things they don't like). and the Riven Multipliers determined appropriate by that, are set and never adjusted again.
ofcourse, y'all make this way more complicated for yourselves because you insist that the game needs Powercreep every 3 months (or sooner). all of these alternative models of Equipment that are no longer alternative, they're always direct upgrades. and if you're going to insist on that then..... well you're either just forever up s... creek no matter what you do with Rivens, or you like, split them further so the direct upgrade models don't throw everything you do on Day A out of the window when on Day B you decide to double or triple the Stats of something because reasons.

 

but, maybe one of the best things that could be done is.... don't give Weapons Stats that force Players to get Rivens for their Weapons. people have Rivens for so many Weapons to hit a lot of breakpoints, not on just a couple Weapons that you hear about in some Youtube Video. Riven changes tend to drop nuclear weapons on breakpoints of all sorts of Weapons. because a lot of Stats have breakpointing type zones in them.
but anyways, you could solve like half of the problem in the first place, if for example, Sniper Rifles didn't need a Riven to Crit (because if they don't Crit they're useless), high-ish Status Weapons didn't need a Riven to have flexible Damage Types, area coverage sort of Weapons didn't need a Riven to have enough Projectiles to get that area coverage, some Weapons that practically mandate using this or that type of Utility Mod in order to make them remotely practical to use didn't need a Riven to make that mandated Utility fit reasonably.......
the list goes on and on. if you specifically give Weapons Stats that make them have trouble performing their intended roles without a Riven to give you some extra Stats to fill in the hole that's left..... well then duh Rivens will get used a lot. because in order to use those Weapons correctly and even seemingly as intended, you have to have a Riven with some certain Stats.
this'll just always be a mess if Players will be forced to have Rivens, but then also punished for having them and eventually the Rivens not even being able to fix those Weapons that the Player was forced to try and fix.

The issue is that rivened weapons are borked. Negative impact grinlok consistently do viral and slash procs that can 1 bump corrupted heavy guns at levels 100+. Any weapon that got nerfed in this patch are weapons that can destroy without a riven help, or are so consistently use by the normal community that it makes no sense for them to have a high riven disposition. Arca plasmor is the most useable shotgun in the game out of the box, with infinite punchthrough and dmg. It strong, and doesn't need help, and everyone use the thing. Complaining that a weapon cannot destroy everything (without warframe buffs as you can still take them far) when they already more than capable of killing most things is a form of entitlement and attachment to rivens. Sometimes, you gotta accept that the game doesn't cater to you.

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Posted (edited)

why the hell did my supra get nerfed.

 

i paid 1500p for that riven. thank you DE for killing the only riven i used.

 

I loved that wep this just makes me not want to support the game with my hard earned money any more.

 

guess the meta for FULL AUTO assault rifles is gorgon now. cuz all of them ARE TRASH. 

just make all rivens dispo 3 and leave them alone. man this balance either  makes everyone sad , or everyone happy.  horrible balance. DO YOU EVEN REALISE SOME RIVENS SELL FOR 20 000P DE? 

Edited by redkunaz
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In my opinion.....this is heartbreaking for me. I hate when 1 of my hardly earned/rolled riven is nerfed. I think the buff of the weaker (not weak, you know what i mean) rivens should be better choice, becuse if somebody have a good riven for example for Lanka, he/she dont will be angry. But now im very very very veryveryvery ANGRY.! I will sell all of my rivens and never want to meet 1 again. Its not worth to work for it. It will be nerfed.....i hate this way. The DE will earn with this, that people dont want to use rivens, becuse the primed and casual mods give better stats (like hirudo that gives +40% cc and the base mod gives 60%cc). This is the wrong way. Not balance.

 

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