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[DE]Connor

April 2019 Riven Disposition Updates

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1 minute ago, Reisbig2009 said:

5x riven on a Kraken?! Not even then my friend, lol.

I know Kraken is a meme already at how bad it is, but someone actually would. I mean there already were one youtube guy which made a gas build with it and it were... okay-ish, I'd say. Still terrible, but he did kill things in sortie with it after pulling everyone together with Nidus. With 5x it may actually work like a decent gun. What would make anyone consider using Stug, though...

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1 hour ago, BaTHaLo said:

Why are we talking balance when there are rivens left untouched such as kohm and detron?

They have already stated that they are not touching them because the riven disposition gives them 100% status chance, at the current number. A bit unfair, if you ask me, but it will not change anything.

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hace 5 horas, [DE]Connor dijo:

Although still relatively popular among players for their ninja stylings, most bows have fallen behind the power curve for primaries (unless they’re automatic, or explode with a 6 meter radius). Throwing star weapons could use help for similar reasons, when compared to other secondaries. Therefore, buffs across the board!

Imagine if you could actually buff the weapon instead of making dispo bigger which will not help them anyway cause base stats bad, except maybe spira prime but that weird angle of proyectiles so no one will use it

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...why touch the lanka? The weapon is complete garbage without a riven and even when you do have one it's only good for boss fights,  other than that I've only ever used it in combination with mag when I was bored.  Eidalon hunts need to be excluded from the statistics since they're not an accurate representation of standard gameplay.

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9 minutes ago, Tengarnos said:

If you think that a simply reduced non mandatory, rng luck based mod is needed for a weapon I feel sorry for you ^^

You either completely missed the point or just feel like twisting my words. I never said rivens are mandatory. In fact, I rarely use them. However, the rivens I do use did enhance the experience of using that weapon by feeding into the power fantasy of the game. It felt good to use those guns because they were so powerful, this experience has been ruined now that those weapons took a hit. Running around with that same gun but while knowing it's not as good as it once was, ruins the power fantasy for me personally and by doing so it also vaporises my interest in using it. 

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I played it for a whole year. I’ve spent so much time in vain. I hate DE. What happens balance without pvp component? Are you seriously? People spent their time and nerves to make the game more interesting and enjoyable for themselves.  PVP is dead. Archiving is dead. DE have nothing else to do? DE welcome to the trash can

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hace 5 horas, sitfesz dijo:

Jesus, another RNG layer on rivens whether they will be buffed or nerfed. The popularity based adjustment idea is plain terrible.

The fact we have maximum riven capacity and these adjustments just tell this is intentional to force players to refresh their riven arsenal every 6 months, so they keep destroying nerfed rivens and waste more kuva on newly acquired buffed ones. Players are perfectly fine to feel hate towards this way.

same brother

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Urrrk, Catchmoon, Rattleguts, Tombfinger, Pyrana, Akjagara and Corinth nerfs. Also, yay, Zarr, Twin Rogga, Pox and Zakti buffs \o/ Also also, might try my Javlok and Mutalist Cernos rivens after this.

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All hate aside....

Can we all have a moment of silence for the all mighty Lato

Thank you.

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3 minutes ago, Reisbig2009 said:

They have already stated that they are not touching them because the riven disposition gives them 100% status chance, at the current number. A bit unfair, if you ask me, but it will not change anything.

The funniest part here is the only reason people actively using Kohm IS 100% "true" status and the reason for that is how DE screwed up with how status works on pellets. I mean, seriously, majority of shotguns receive tremendous buff as soon as they reach that "true" status and if they take it away from a gun where it were achiveable before that won't be just a minor nerf to DPS of that gun. It will be tremendous and render it almost useless.

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The problem with the rivens is that it doesn't just promote lower tier weapons but completely devalues an optional mod (that people usually work hard for) for higher tiered weapons WITHOUT actually solving the glaring problem of power creep. Buffing unpopular weapon dispositions until affected weapons are popular without nerfing the dispo for higher tier weapons will yield similar results while at the same time not S#&$ting on people's potential hard work and plats.

For example, Weapon A has 100 performance points (pp) and is very popular while Weapon B has 80 performance points but isn't as popular. Performance points is basically how that weapon behaves both in damage and the way it handles, which is what rivens are used to either bolster or patch up (slow reloads, higher crit, more damage, multi).

With the current system, both having similar 3 disposition rivens, and an inverse proportionate performance and popularity ratio, four disposition change steps:
Weapon A + riven = 160 performance  -> 140 performance  -> 120 performance  -> 100 performance 
Weapon B + riven = 80 performance  -> 100 performance  -> 120 performance  -> 140 performance

The result is basically just nerfing A's ability and will most likely result in just stopping around the middle section. This means a loss of plat for some people, which is also possibly DE's bottomline.

On the other hand, buffing disposition of underperforming weapons will result in the same base line performances. Same scenario but no nerfs:
Weapon A + riven = 160 performance -> 160 performance -> 160 performance -> 160 performance -> 160 performance
Weapon B + riven = 80 performance -> 100 performance -> 120 performance -> 140 performance -> 160 performance
They pretty much end up in the same space without trampling on anyone's hard earned or luckily obtained rivens.

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hace 5 horas, standardheadache dijo:

Snipetron got buffed, and Vulkar barely took a hit.

 

 

snipetron trash, vulkar needs a riven 

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hace 5 horas, mikakor dijo:

 

second solution : don't god damn nerf already existing rivens... simple. but i do think the first solution would be the best.

 

how to make a game econommy worse 101

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Posted (edited)
hace 5 horas, Famelhaut dijo:

you do for a 6x3

not really but helps uwu

Edited by Ferbsol

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I'm normally happy that balance is being made... But WTF? Lato was nerfed... Why? And Sicarus? Twin Gremlins? Angstrum? Give us a reason please. Vague answers like "It was an internal ranking" doesn't mean anything. Did you guys rank based on base stats? How the weapon functioned? How easy it was to Fashion Frame it? Come on, you got feedback from us, give us feedback in return.

 

And some of these buffs don't matter much either. You could give the Tonkor a perfect 5 Disposition and it still wouldn't be a fan favorite again. I know you said "Only 1 pip at a time" and all, but some of these buffs don't matter. So again, feedback please. Why were these buffs given? Will there be more buffs for the weapon?

 

When you go messing with the Economy, you need to give answers as to the why. When you change a 5,000 platinum Riven to 3,000 platinum, you need to say why you nerfed. The Canadian Government wouldn't out of the blue say "The Canadian Dollar is now worth American Pennies", would they? So give us reasons please.

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Imagine being the person at DE who thought that, in a horde shooter game, sniper rifles (other than the Snipetron, which is already hot garbage) needed to have their potential nerfed. They could also be described as 'the person at DE who thought that Eidolon hunts should be arbitrarily longer/harder', since that's the only real place that sniper rifles are required in the meta. 

Rivens need an overhaul, rather than minor tweaks.  How many times do we have to teach you this lesson, old man? 

Some weapons are purely superior to others, to the point where no riven can make up for the difference in base stats and damage/firing mechanics.  The efficient player will always pick the better one. 

What rivens dispositions do, is give a greater boost to weapons with worse stats, and a lesser boost to weapons with better stats. 

Garbage stats +50% are slightly better than garbage.  God-tier stats +20%, are above god-tier.  Do you see where rivens fail to bridge the gap between good and bad weapons? 

If DE wanted to make rivens work and give each weapon a way to be used, it wouldn't be by tweaking dispositions.  It'd be by doing a proper primary/secondary rework this time around, that actually takes rivens into account rather than the bare minimum of power creep. 

The Burston Prime, for example, is a weapon that I find to be fun to use.  However, even though I have a riven for it with decent stats, it will never be more powerful than my 7-forma Mk1-Paris (and that even holds true when I unequip the god-tier Paris riven I have on it), because the Mk1-Paris has the base crit stat necessary to be able to be viable in endgame. 

Do you see why the answer to rivens being unable to fulfill their purpose (of bringing non-meta/power-creeped-out weapons back into the fold), is to rework third-rate weapons with high riven dispositions to at least have a single stat worth boosting to be able to be relevant? 

-

Sadly, that's only the first part of riven reworks that would be required to make rivens work as intended (from the perspective of their original design).  The second part is not so cut-and-dry.  It's finding the balance between making S-tier weapons' rivens not too powerful where the A-tier weapons with rivens can't catch up.  There's no point in investing kuva/endo into rivens and multiple forma on a weapon, when there's another weapon that can outshine its full potential without needing a riven. 

The general framework for this kind of live balance testing is already in place.  Take the weapon-boosting tweak concept from Arbitration, change it from +300% damage to increasing base stats of trash weapons (to new levels that you, DE, would like to test), offer exclusive rewards (ephemeras, new mods, etc) or increased affinity/focus gain as incentive for using trash weapons that you list as the options that receive base stat buffs (and potentially have good weapons have their base stats reduced in this mode, to drive away people who want to use meta gear to farm a non-meta weapon mode out), and slap it into a tweaked (in terms of tilesets and enemies) 3rd mode of Sanctuary Onslaught that is intended to gauge weapon potential. 

That would help DE collect copious amounts of data, and would save DE tons of time having to test out these stat tweaks themselves.  It makes it so that, in the process of theorycraft the tweak -> test the tweak -> analyse the test for results, the devs only would have to deal with theorycrafting, and some partial analysis, as player feedback could decrease the amount of time DE would have to spend on analysing these tests. 

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1 hour ago, Gekkojo said:

cheap rubico ribens incoming, yay

And worse stats. 

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what is the point of releasing a prime only to nerf the Riven? Surly all Rivens should go on the assumption that only the base variant exists.

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6 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Lex: 1->1.05

Is this accurate? To my knowledge, the Lex was originally 0.5 Dispo. It would be great if it was truly brought up to 1.05 to actually compete with other secondaries again though. 

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Posted (edited)

Idk why the disposition for the AkLex never got properly adjusted, on prime release its dispo was preemptively halved for the sake of it and afterwards just lowered, this is the second time and it seems to be purely because of its MR ranking, which seems to be way too high for the weapon considering it has 2 major downsides (bad reload + high recoil), when compared to a lot of secondaries with lower MR (which is easy because it has the highest possible MR requirement atm), it simply doesn't stack up.

Either buff it to be deserving of the dispo nerf/MR requirement or just lower the requirement and properly readjust the disposition while ignoring the "we won't change dispositions much" rule.

 

p.s. I don't have a godroll Aklex riven, no Aklex rivens at all, it just urks me when a system that should be making things better (such as not touching the Acrid and Stug at all in the balance pass) isn't applied properly.

Edited by Madway7
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Posted (edited)

Angstrum, the heck? Who uses that gun besides me and only a handful of other people? So they probably didn't change it based on its popularity, but because it ranked high in their internal power rankings. It is indeed powerful, but only up to a certain level against armored targets. And it is also horribly inconsistent and requires you to take a great risk of constantly killing yourself with it, or forcing you to run Assimilate Nyx to negate that which is really trading one downside for another. What's the point of changing a weapon's disposition based on their power if you don't account for their consistency or how situational they are? By that logic, the Nukor's disposition needs a massive nerf because with a crit damage riven and a great build it can achieve a 15x crit multiplier and shred level 160 corrupted gunners in seconds if you give it flat crit chance buffs from your other weapons, frame, or companion. 

Also, since 95% magazine capacity won't be possible anymore, RIP the dream of an 11 magcap carpet bombing meme build I've been rolling Angstrum rivens for weeks for. Thanks DE. 

Edited by Apav
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5 hours ago, Tauthe said:

@[DE]Connor What the numbers mean? Bc soma is 0.75 and it has 1 of 5 points on riven disposition and the amprex and arca plasmor has 0.6 and 2 of 5 riven disposition?

Its like a multiplier with 2 being the highest I believe. 1 means baseline stat numbers, anything higher or lower than that gets multiplied by the number.

That's how I think it is anyways.

In game it shows in 5 dots where you just get an idea of where your stat numbers might fall.

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Since this is the only time it will be even remotely relevant and timely, here's my thoughts on the actual adjustments.

-Braton, Latron, Burston buffs: Lol. You do realize that Tiberon Prime is so power crept that it even with effective 40% swings in disposition effect, nobody, and I mean NOBODY is ever going to use the classic prime trio over it. Like, the raw DPS on Tiberon Prime is fantastic, and blows the other weapons out of the water even without a Riven.

-Bows: Since I'm one of the few people brain damaged enough to actually main bows in spite of the meta (bubble bois are the worst), I guess my stubborness has paid off for once (Cernos Prime is still a hot pile of ass though)
I don't expect this to last.

-Supra, Panthera, Lato, Vasto, Sicarus: Well, if I wanted proof that Riven disposition was just designed to make D.E. easy plat, and not the stated intent to bring lesser/unpopular weapons to the fore at the expense of the overused weapons, here it is.
Lets begin.
I have hundreds of hours logged into the game in the past 6 months and I think I saw a Panthera all of ONCE in all that time. Much overused. Very nerf. Much wow. *eyeroll*
AFAIK, I'm one of the maybe twelve people left who use the Sicarus Prime and single handed Vasto over the scores of akimbo weapons, and '-cor' guns.
Supra Vandal is a great fire support weapon, and one of the only good/viable weapons of its type in the whole game, but it's far from being broken and virtually nobody uses it outside of trolly theme teams because of how hard its damage falls off vs anything with armor at mid-high level.
And the most head scratching nerf of all: Lato?! You nerfed the LATO of all things? Unless you grind yourself into a boredom induced coma playing "Dial 4 for Boosh" on E.S.O. for months on end to get the Lato Vandal, there is zero, I repeat, ZERO reason to nerf the Tenno Glock. What was the point, to vainly promote the almighty fart power of the ****ing Seer?? I am genuinely confused by this nerf.

I haven't bought platinum since 2014, and in that, time has proven me wise, and wiser with every disposition change.
It's not like I even go out of my way to get Rivens; I only sell the occasional unrolled piece of junk or trade for random niche crap with my guildies, specifically because I know that in due time, any real investment I make into them (Plat, Kuva, Endo and Time) will be sharply depreciated. Can't wait to hop into VOIP to give them the good news!

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