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[DE]Connor

April 2019 Riven Disposition Updates

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18 минут назад, Mewfan сказал:

bla bla bla ....

EDIT: I tend to use the Tombfinger or Sancti Castanas for Eidolon. With a minimum duration, max strength Navigator, you can hit a Limb with enough damage to pop it faster than a Lanka charge, if you build right. Without a Riven, at that.

For those who are sure that there is nothing terrible in the loss of 20% efficiency. personally, you can even run with MK-1 on eidalona. But this is a PVE game and I spent a lot of time and money in my rank 27 only to have these weapons kill the very 20% faster. For those who do not have the necessary mods, this update has absolutely nothing to change. For that, those who really invested their time in this game are really very angry.

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Make Rivens untradeable and then I'll agree with people wanting the dispositions not to change. It is great DE is finally having consistent time frames in changing dispositions. Rivens were just a bad idea overall in my opinion but removing them isn't feasible at this point. Fact is they are not needed whatsoever to get through any of the content so people freaking out about the nerfs is pretty funny.

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The real question its not why nerf them ... the real question is why they slowly nerf them ... its pretty sad way to slowly destroying a weapon and the players have no idea is a riven its worth to sell or keep anymore .... if they want to nerf a riven then do it , but in one time , not in 10 little nerfs over time .

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6 minutes ago, Kos-off said:

*snip* But this is a PVE game *snip*

And that's why sometimes things need to be balanced. That's why we're getting Melee 3.0, that's why we get tweaks and changes like this. If you look up weapons by their usage, then some of these nerfs were appropriate. Hell, my Tombfinger and my Vulkar Rivens got tweaked back.

 

Thing is though, it's an online game. With new content moderately on the regular. The most rage I see about the rivens is the same two big arguments. Either "nerfed to the ground", which they weren't, OR "Spent a lot", which is entirely on those that did. DE did say, when Rivens came out, that they would be regularly updated. We got the news a while back, and what we're seeing is just that: this set of dispo changes. 

 

Give it 3 months, see where the content goes. When Atlas prime drops in three months, then we'll get our new set of Riven Tweaks. Who knows where the game will be there. Some of these dispos make sense: a lot of the weapons with nasty AOE potential were nerfed down a bit, while some single targets and semi-autos got some buffs.

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To those who are saying "Just use a different weapon", keep in mind that there's more to it than the weapon.

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipOkAuxWIJVsFSmHPkY2Zkq-q1iZ3bWGE69I_JFE

Here's my Opticor riven that has 300 rolls, or 1 million Kuva, invested in it. If Opticor got nerfed, I would've wasted 1 million Kuva, weeks and weeks of farming said Kuva, and the time spent putting 7 Forma on my Opticor Vandal, should the Opticor receive a nerf. Could I use a different weapon? Sure. I'm MR 26, I have tons of weapons to choose from. But not all weapons are created equal. Some weapons like Convectrix or Javlok are too weak and won't take me through someone as easy as a Sortie. Other weapons like Latron or Karak are just boring to shoot.

It's that simple. Like I originally said, I'm happy when balances are issued, but only when they make sense and don't affect the time and energy put into the game. That's why I like buffs instead of nerfs. When you nerf stuff, you literally make the time and energy put into that thing wasted. When you buff stuff, you make that thing look more appealing. When the Amprex was buffed, I literally picked up my Amprex again and started using it. No nerf could ever do that. If a weapon I like get's a nerf, I'm not looking at my 10th side girl and thinking "Yeah, you'll do".

 

And I still want some answers as to why some of these things got nerfed, and some got buffed. Doesn't make any sense to nerf the Angsturm.

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Isn't buffing shotguns that can reach 100% status a bad move? IIRC (was unactive at the time so I'm not sure) there was an attempt in the past to nerf some of those, but many complained because they were no longer be able to reach 100% status so they were reverted.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Yagamilight123 said:

The real question its not why nerf them ... the real question is why they slowly nerf them ... its pretty sad way to slowly destroying a weapon and the players have no idea is a riven its worth to sell or keep anymore .... if they want to nerf a riven then do it , but in one time , not in 10 little nerfs over time .

The reasoning behind this is because if you lower it by increments, you will eventually hit a point where the weapon stops becoming the default meta with raw power and people will start to move away from the weapon. It's a pretty common balancing strategy especially where usage is involved since you can gauge the effect of each decrease and stop when you have achieved the desired target usage.

Realistically speaking though, dropping it to 1 Disposition would just create more work on their end. If you drop a weapon from 5 Disposition to 1 overnight, you would go way beyond your target usage, which means you would then have to raise the disposition anyways to try to increase the usage stats. Unless they decide to throw arrows in the dark with how they increase the disposition and create an extreme rollercoast from 5 to 1 to 4 to 1 to 3 and finally stopping there, you would be doing the same thing now, except you added a pointless step now of reducing the disposition to nothing.

Edited by RX-3DR
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What a mean thing to do for some of us. As a player who cannot afford to pay insane prices for a God riven to hunt a Teralyst I spent at least 400 hours kuva farming.I rolled and rolled and to my utter joy finally had a Rubico riven after 67 rolls with a cheap trash riven already rolled 43 times I got lucky with 198% CC and 109.5% MS. A riven that most people can never afford to buy. It was my pride and joy and I could finally hunt the Teralyst with relative ease and play solo as my skill set is not as good as many younger players. At age 61 my fingers tend to hurt and the speed and accuracy needed in the heat of battle I do not have. My riven was a perfect compensation for my shortcomings and now I wake up to find you have taken my riven and crushed it.

Am I angry ? you can bet your life on it. Why punish people this way ?? I have used my Riven for a fraction of the time I spent trying to obtain it.

As "for people freaking out about the nerfs pretty funny" that is a matter of opinion. I was never going to sell what I had worked so hard for. So I DO NOT FIND IT FUNNY.

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Posted (edited)
25 минут назад, Mewfan сказал:

And that's why sometimes things need to be balanced. That's why we're getting Melee 3.0, that's why we get tweaks and changes like this. If you look up weapons by their usage, then some of these nerfs were appropriate. Hell, my Tombfinger and my Vulkar Rivens got tweaked back.

 

New content? Is it real? adding unnecessary trash weapons. And the optimization of melee combat under multiplatform (the inconvenience of using melee on consoles). is this new content? Cut off from the rest of the game the valley of the orb and two boring sphere bosses. what has changed in this game if the current is honest! added even more grind? what to do at the last rank, how not to chase after these 20% efficiency. what else to do in this damn game ??? if everything is already passed ??? wait for new junk for grind or another 20-minute quest for a whole year ???

Edited by Kos-off
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I see very few sniper rifles outside of Eidolons, please stop making Snipers worse when they are already average at best outside of the extremely limited content where you forced their popularity. The Vectis is now the same dispo as the Hek. That can't possibly be usage based in any meaningful way. I don't really even care about the cost, but this just screws with builds. If other weapons need a boost to compete with the devastating power of sniper rifles in missions then boost the other weapons. I was just coming back to the game and this really disincentivizes playing for me because apparently the best thing I can do to improve the way I want to play is wait 3 months to see if the random stuff I like got better or worse. Why bother trying to make fun red crit builds on weird weapons when my very use of the weapon is contributing to making its riven worse until it can't red crit anymore.

 Constantly nerfing weapons that only got popular because of a weird game design choice on a major fight is stupid. So is nerfing weapons that only see use because their rivens are good. The only people who are affected by the nerfs are the people who were having fun with their rivens before. I mean really, were people with Pantheras just wrecking PVP balance or something? /s Yet you still don't nerf the Kohm because people would flip out. The whole system feels arbitrary and anti-fun.

 And yes you buffed the snipers that feel like crap to use, but no one uses those, not because their dispos aren't high enough, but because they feel like crap to use.

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Posted (edited)

I've been around since the start of the game so I am used to big nerfs and moving on. 

However, rivens are a new ball game. It can take months of farming kuva to perfect a roll you're after. People spend thousands and thousands of plat (several hundred bucks in some cases) for 1 riven.

This is new territory as far as nerfs go. It's no longer taking a casual hit and moving on.

My advice is to use this as motivation to finally introduce a real auction house into the game. That will bring balance where it is needed most in this game... in the trade market. Prices for rivens are just insane. A proper auction house with everyone selling and competing for buyers on a server-wide market will drive these silly high riven prices down to where they need to be. Then it won't sting people so much when their sub 1k riven gets a nerf next patch cycle (instead of the trend for several thousand we are at now).

Edited by Bloodgrave
typo
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Man you guys are killing me with this. My Rubico Prime went from practically a 1-in-2 red crit to about 1-in-4. Can't ya'll let a man have his anti-dropship rifle?

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Because disposition is based on how popular a weapon is. As the popularity changes, so should the disposition. 

2 hours ago, GinKenshin said:

The problem isn’t them being changed, the problem is DE only doing so (on a regular basis anyway) just now. The big issue is that they didn’t touch it for like 2-3 years after it’s implementation, which created the idea that it’ll just stay the same and they won’t change it, then threads like this will happen 

 

  If it becomes a regular thing, less and less complaints will be made and people will just live with it  

But it's not the first time dispositions change... Sure it have not been changing on regular intervals, but back when rivens came out the devs warned us to not get too comfortable with the dispositions. Or at least I remember them doing so, so it didn't come as a surprise to me.

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Ignis never needed the Riven adjustment. It is a popular weapon, but even with Ignis Wraith, it was still not a weapon you like to bring to sorties against Grineer. 
Because it dealt pathetic damage.

So why was it adjusted ? Too popular ? 
 

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Il y a 12 heures, [DE]Connor a dit :

Lato: 1.4->1.35

 

Why DE ? The main use of Lato rivens is for the Lato Vandal, which is not a meta weapon with huge AoE. It's very grindy to get restricting it from being meta and that's why it should be a weapon with some punch (you have to consider that the weapon is totally worthless without any good rolled riven). I don't understand why you still keep lowering its disposition...

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I watched tutorials and read the wiki pages to learn and understand how to use a weapon how to build a good mod set and then hunt for a riven to boost my lack of speed/skill. I need them to be able to face the more challenging missions. Otherwise I am stuck playing the same simple missions and weaker enemies which would become repetitive and boring.

My go to weapons have all been subject to a reduction in their capabilities. So all of my time reading learning and farming to acquire the needed mods etc has been wasted. You cannot make unpopular weapons popular by making the good weapons we like weaker.

As for the riven dispositions I think you should have put in place a method where those of us that had a riven we would not sell have an option to lock it so it could not be traded. Instead you have simply punished me for learning how to be the best I am capable of being.

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Awwww. Look at the riven mafia raging now that their hoarded rubico rivens - that they scammed out of newer players for far less than they're worth - aren't salable for thousands of plat in profit.🤔 🤣

On the whole these disposition changes are good, and I say this as someone who owns god-tier Tiberon and Rubico rivens. (That I rolled myself and kept.) Rivens don't exist so that trade sharks can gate the meta behind paying them thousands of plat, or that players with thousands of plat can buy their way to numerical superiority. They exist so that weapons players like, but aren't otherwise competitive, can be useful again with some effort.

(If anything, there are weapons with top tier dispositions that still aren't competitive, and weapons that should have top tier dispositions that aren't...but these changes are, for the most part, in the correct direction. For instance, I would love to use my Latrons instead of my Tiberons for a change, but with the changes Dex Sybaris is still far superior. Maybe someday...)

Seriously, did anyone think Tiberon, Rubico, and Arca Plasmor rivens weren't going to get nerfed? Come on. 🤣

 

 

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8 hours ago, (NSW)TeddyTalks said:

And they will now buy back for extra cheap, until the crying stops and people realize they are still good, and then they sell back at a higher price. Literally galaxy brain moves.

And I'm sure someone will cry for that in the forum like they are doing here, while this is just try to grofit in a market where the dumb player is going to lose

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Someone compared the list of "hammered" rivens to the last so-called balancing? My gut tells me, DE again lowered a lot of the same rivens again.

@fatpig84: I agree with you, Ignis is a good example why this "balancing" is garbage.

Seems this actual formula to decide what riven to lower is like:

- used or favored by 80% of players -> bad, we need to make it unattractive in at least the next year

- players trade those for high prices -> make it even worse (like nerf it multiple times in a row)

- makes our content look trivial or soloable (Eidolons, Orbs, ...) -> lets totaly destroy it

- veterans use it very often, regardless of the previous 3 -> lets hit them too, they shall play with other weapons, ignore if they spend a fortune of resources, plat or time on getting those rivens

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Arca Plasmor: 0.7->0.6

Let me see if I understand this right: the idea for the monthly Riven disposition updates is for the most popular weapons to have their Riven disposition reach 0.0 before the end of the summer1? In other words, will there be a floor limit to these changes, or will you continue punishing players for liking certain weapons more than the rest? Why not. instead, just make the other weapons better, or give them boosts?

1: well, October at the rate of -0.1 every month.

Edited by tprx
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1 hour ago, Mewfan said:

Literally, if you're that upset, just use different weapons, or toss all your rivens into trade chat to recoup your platinum losses or something.

You do realise the platinum losses are the exact result of not being able to sell those rivens on prices you could before? How would selling the rivens at lower prices than before recoup your plat losses? Your best bet is either to sell those rivens before the next dispo changes, in case you see many people use the weapon, or sell after the dispo changes, if you see people rarely use the weapon anymore.

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42 minutes ago, Vilmu said:

Because disposition is based on how popular a weapon is. As the popularity changes, so should the disposition. 

But it's not the first time dispositions change... Sure it have not been changing on regular intervals, but back when rivens came out the devs warned us to not get too comfortable with the dispositions. Or at least I remember them doing so, so it didn't come as a surprise to me.

That’s the thing, that was such a long time ago that people either forgot, didn’t even know or are newbies who cane after this. DE didn’t stress it enough. Now tat they’re trying to make it s regular thing this isn’t an issue anymore, people will learn that they can change 

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hace 1 hora, RX-3DR dijo:

The reasoning behind this is because if you lower it by increments, you will eventually hit a point where the weapon stops becoming the default meta with raw power and people will start to move away from the weapon. It's a pretty common balancing strategy especially where usage is involved since you can gauge the effect of each decrease and stop when you have achieved the desired target usage.

Realistically speaking though, dropping it to 1 Disposition would just create more work on their end. If you drop a weapon from 5 Disposition to 1 overnight, you would go way beyond your target usage, which means you would then have to raise the disposition anyways to try to increase the usage stats. Unless they decide to throw arrows in the dark with how they increase the disposition and create an extreme rollercoast from 5 to 1 to 4 to 1 to 3 and finally stopping there, you would be doing the same thing now, except you added a pointless step now of reducing the disposition to nothing.

Absolute no person can believe that disposition is based in "usage" stats ... its would be to naive (weapons that only are use in eidolons for example , overall have very low usage because people usually dont use lanka outside eidolon .... but its getting nerfed) . And devs know how much they need to nerf a weapon to balance it , this "slow" nerf only exist to gives player the feeling of "this is not that bad of a nerf" to each mini nerf.

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11 hours ago, Snowy-Owl said:

Does anyone know if the riven changes are retroactive? Do already rolled rivens before the update get their stats reduced or buffed after this change?

The stats do get reduced if nerfed. But increased if buffed.

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