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[DE]Connor

April 2019 Riven Disposition Updates

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Weapon popularity is the wrong statistic to measure.  If a weapon is only ever used by people who have a riven for it, it's probably because the weapon is garbage without one.  If a weapon is widely used without a riven, it means it's plenty strong enough on its own and doesn't need the extra boost, so the rivens can be safely toned down.

Factor in riven-reliance when choosing how to balance these, not just raw popularity.

 

And disposition also needs to play into this.  If the dispo is too low, people will drop it or not bother rolling, and be forced to play without them simply due to normal mods being better.  Increasing the minimum disposition to 0.8 would help prevent this from confusing the data a bit, but so would comparing from previous samples to see if a significant number of riven users were added or dropped.

Edited by Callback
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Anyways, as much as I approve of this shift in how you achieve balance, I hope you will consider actually changing base weapon stats for balance reasons instead of just adjusting expensive luxury mods and creating a two-tier system where newer or poorer players get left with weird discrepancies in firepower and usability.

There are a lot of terrible weapons that desperately need to be revisited (the Ogris and Daikyu being my personal pet causes) and rivens have never been the best or most effective way to fix them.

Edited by TuxedoCatfish
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Jesus, another RNG layer on rivens whether they will be buffed or nerfed. The popularity based adjustment idea is plain terrible.

The fact we have maximum riven capacity and these adjustments just tell this is intentional to force players to refresh their riven arsenal every 6 months, so they keep destroying nerfed rivens and waste more kuva on newly acquired buffed ones. Players are perfectly fine to feel hate towards this way.

Edited by sitfesz
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2 minutes ago, Thelamaking said:

Snipteron really must've been junk!

it is.  it lacks the consistent crit and the multiplier counterpart it shoots slightly faster than a stock vectice and it need a reload mod as well as fire rate mods to keep up with the Rubico's burst it lacks the damage of the Vulcar wraith and takes an age to farm.  it needs either more damage, more crit, better combo or good looks so that it does not feel like a discount Lanka.  

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4 minutes ago, Knight_Prospekt said:

I'm in the minority here but I run solo 6x3. So I do.

tenor.gif?itemid=7850155

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1 minute ago, sitfesz said:

Jesus, another RNG layer on rivens whether they will be buffed or nerfed. The popularity based adjustment idea is plain terrible.

The fact we have maximum riven capacity and these adjustments just tell this is intentional to force players to refresh their riven arsenal every 6 months, so they keep destroying nerfed rivens and waste more kuva on newly acquired buffed ones. Players are perfectly fine to feel hate towards this way.

totally agree

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1 minute ago, sitfesz said:

Jesus, another RNG layer on rivens whether they will be buffed or nerfed. The popularity based adjustment idea is plain terrible.

The fact we have maximum riven capacity and these adjustments just tell this is intentional to force players to refresh their riven arsenal every 6 months, so they keep destroying nerfed rivens and waste more kuva on newly acquired buffed ones. Players are perfectly fine to feel hate towards this way.

just do what I do sell "good" rivens and keep the odd ones only one of my riven's was nerfed all of the other one were bufed

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35 minutes ago, [DE]Connor said:

Arca Plasmor: 0.7->0.6
Amprex: 0.85->0.7

Argonak: 1.1->1.2
Baza: 1.1->1.0
Boltor: 0.79->0.95
Braton: 1.01->1.1
Burston: 1.25->1.3
Cernos: 0.92->1.1

Corinth: 1.05->0.95
Daikyu: 1.21->1.3
Dera: 1.25->1.3
Dread: 0.9->1.1
Ferrox: 1.1->1.15
Gorgon: 1.35->1.4
Grakata: 1.15->1.2
Hek: 0.7->0.85
Hema: 1.1->1.2

Ignis: 0.7->0.6
Javlok: 1.1->1.2
Lanka: 0.95->0.85
Latron: 1.15->1.25
Mutalist Cernos: 1.26->1.35
Nagantaka: 1->1.05
Ogris: 1.25->1.3

Panthera: 1.5->1.4
Paris: 1.05->1.2
Penta: 1.25->1.3
Quanta: 1->1.1

Rubico: 0.95->0.8
Scourge: 1.1->1.15
Simulor: 0.7->0.85
Snipetron: 1.165->1.25
Soma: 0.55->0.75

Stradavar: 1.25->1.15
Supra: 1->0.85

Sybaris: 0.9->1
Tiberon: 1.3->1.1
Tonkor: 0.75->0.95
Torid: 1.2->1.3

Vectis: 0.92->0.85
Vulkar: 1.45->1.4
 

As someone who has Vectis, Vulkar and Arca plasmor rivens, owie. Will look at the damage in-game when I get home.

But hey, some nice buffs to my other stuff in here. Good to see bows getting some love ❤️

 

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55 minutes ago, [DE]Connor said:

Baza: 1.1->1.0

The hell? The Baza isnt a particularly mind blowing weapon by any measure.

55 minutes ago, [DE]Connor said:

Aklex: 0.92->0.85

.Why. Splat-Haymaker-Tombfinger is a major upgrade on this in every category on top of being single handed + kitgun arcane. Aklex needs all the help it can get right now.

55 minutes ago, [DE]Connor said:

Lato: 1.4->1.35

Oh S#&$. All them lato's going out of control.

55 minutes ago, [DE]Connor said:

Kitguns were a new introduction since our last wave of disposition changes. Even after accounting for increased popularity due to newness, their usage stats dwarfed most other weapons by a massive degree. Most Kitguns received disposition decreases, but not all were hit as hard as they could have been, because we factored in our personal interpretation of Kitgun strength instead of relying solely on usage stats.

Kitguns needs to get base stat fixes. Minor riven adjustments wont fix this usage issue. Tombfinger and Catchmoon base properties are so far above everything else even without a riven it's not even close. Crit builds of these weapons are especially bad. Rattleguts feels ok. Gaze needs a bit of help but all beam weapons do.

55 minutes ago, [DE]Connor said:

Although still relatively popular among players for their ninja stylings, most bows have fallen behind the power curve for primaries (unless they’re automatic, or explode with a 6 meter radius). Throwing star weapons could use help for similar reasons, when compared to other secondaries. Therefore, buffs across the board!

You wanna know what a great bow looks like? Check out the opticor vandal.

 

Variants of weapons need to have their own separate riven dispositions. Some of the stat differences between the regular and enhanced versions are hilariously large and if Riven's are now intended to be some sort of "equalizer" between the dps output of the different weapons to hit some arbitrary internal DPS guideline then it makes no sense to have the same dispo across the board.

Other than that lots of tiny steps in the right direction. Good job, hope you guys actually increase the frequency of these riven updates.

Edited by ADirtyMonk
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@[DE]Connor What the numbers mean? Bc soma is 0.75 and it has 1 of 5 points on riven disposition and the amprex and arca plasmor has 0.6 and 2 of 5 riven disposition?

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My only gripe is the mass nerf to sniper rivens (again). To the point where I'm seriously worried o should sell all of mine before they hit 0.5 disposition and become completely useless. 

I understand you want to make eidolons "harder" but no amount of riven nerfs will make one-shotting impossible. What you're doing nerfing these rivens is shoehorning every other team comp that doesn't have the metaest of meta setup to switch to that setup. 

You're also S#&$ting on everyone who enjoys using snipers on the rest of the game's content. You see, a minor crit chance riven roll doesn't matter one bit when you run with a +50/200% harrow boost, but if you aren't in that situation many of those rivens can no longer guarantee crits, which is actually quite a big deal outside of meta eidolon hunts. 

Nerfing a class as a whole for metagame reason is a really bad way to handle this. 

Also ouch, my pyrana is getting shafted over and over and over :S

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54 minutes ago, [DE]Connor said:

This is our first time determining disposition changes with the help of an internal ranking, to help guide dispositions closer to where we feel they should be, and to offer a solid baseline that is less subject to fluctuating player usage stats.

I wonder if anyone actually read this or if almost everyone just automatically assumed that it's only based on popularity.

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37 minutes ago, Knight_Prospekt said:

Lanka: 0.95->0.85
Rubico: 0.95->0.8
Vectis: 0.92->0.85
Vulkar: 1.45->1.4

Because you want us to hunt Eidolons with rocks, right?

Oh boo hoo, it's still gonna be strong regardless. Just means you 'may' have to spend a mere 3 seconds more taking a second shot instead of one-shotting limbs 😂

Edited by Numerikuu
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46 minutes ago, [DE]Connor said:

This is our first time determining disposition changes with the help of an internal ranking, to help guide dispositions closer to where we feel they should be, and to offer a solid baseline that is less subject to fluctuating player usage stats.

I'm sure most players are going to want more context of this as reading "internal ranking" just tells me the team itself even with the small 3 small snippets. While also seeing weapons that don't see much usage getting reductions. The most glaring one being Stradavar with the release of it's prime version the team foresaw an increase of use due to the prime and decided to reduce it; which is the only reasoning I can really see.

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-0.15 is more than one "tick"

I never see anyone use the Supra lol

Note to self, avoid any riven that has a Vandal/Wraith/Prisma variant.

Edited by ADDpillz
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7 minutes ago, Onokosha said:

That sad moment when you're finally lucky to get an amprex riven without buying it at insane prices then they nerf it a week later.

Feelsbadman

I was thinkg to buy one yesterday but prices too high, now i can for lower prices 😄

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People pay high amounts of plat for rivens that are good and u devalue them with no reimbursement. Thats just a slap in the face for a lot of customers. Rivens that are in players inventories should remain unchanged. The disposition changes should only apply to newly rolled rivens.

As long as rivens are tradeable and people can spend real money to get them via plat, changing rivens in ones inventory is just terrible.

Just gonna sell all top tier rivens and make people sad once they get changed.

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yeah good job nerfing aklex to oblivion and buffing lex... What even.
And why nerf vectis? Gonna just dump all the rivens if they're not godly at this point. You want us to just use snipetron or what?

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5 minutes ago, --Q--Sleeping said:

tenor.gif?itemid=7850155

Trinity, a good Lanka, a Shattering Impact Sarpa, and practice. You'd be very surprised. *shrugs*

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Panthera dispo nerf? woot? I've never seen anyone using that in random missions except me.

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11 minutes ago, Callback said:

Status under 100%, crit under 100/200%, or multishot under 200/300% after factoring in other mods.  Ruining status builds or introducing RNG whiffs is not fun or balanced.  If a gun is only popular within a small niche like Eidolon/PT hunting, it doesn't need nerfs.  Knock it off with the across-the-board sniper massacre.  You gave us weapons that are good for only one thing, then punish us for using them for that thing?

Crit under 100% is the real big whiff (questionable multishot-status issues notwithstanding, those are still 'reliable' in their own way albeit less effective).

Going from Crit 100% to Crit 200%, obviously, is a factor of 2. Going from not critting to critting at all is a factor of.. well, whatever your multiplier is. 4.4 being the baseline (2x * Vital Sense). You also lose the potential for 'headcrits' (though that doesn't apply to the Big Bosses); double that factor again for this.

For a weapon like the Rubico Prime and its 3.0x base - let's say you don't have crit chance on Riven or use Argon Scope et. al. meaning Point Strike leaves you with 95% chance -  you're looking at a Vital Sense equipped difference of 13.2x on headshots. That's ludicrous.

3 minutes ago, spirit_of_76 said:

the vulcar's stats make a perfect anti corpus sniper but with almost pure impact and a lack of good + staus mods kill it in that role as well either a buff to the rifle + status mod the addition of corrupted IPS mods or a change in its meh stats would be nice (one option is for the scope to have a flat status buff similar to the arka sisco)

See above for why it still needs reliable crit. It's literally the difference between needing the entire magazine to match the damage of a single shot; one headcrit with Vital Sense is worth 8.8 non-crit shots. Without adding more crit damage in the riven itself.

It's literally a build-breaking difference in reliability - and considering snipers have either Crit or Headshot bonuses inbuilt for their zoom, you do generally want to headshot and make use of that hidden 'headcrit' multiplier.

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Sigh. Why did lato have to take a (somewhat reasonable) hit yet again... 

Would've liked a karak and glaxion buff then. 

I'm sorry but if you guys aren't happy with a weapon being used and/or being weak, buff/nerf the weapon itself opposed to using rivens as an easy and somewhat lazy (imo) way to try and address the issues. 

Edited by Valiant
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I would just advise people buy rivens assuming it one day can be 0.50 now or just dont touch rivens unless it a really really bad weapon.

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