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Tangent-Valley

Reminder: Riven Disposition Nerf does NOT equal "Weapon Nerf"

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This info needs to be said again, because SOME players (And Warframe Partners/Youtubers, you know who you are), are going to claim that the recent Riven Disposition Changes equal Weapon Nerfs, somehow.

Short answer: No. No they don't.

 

Basically, if a Weapon's Riven Disposition getting marked down equals a "nerf" to the ENTIRE weapon, that means that DE must consider Rivens entirely when they're balancing Weapons as a whole. Example: What's that, my Opticor Riven gets the regular Opticor to NEARLY 100% Crit Chance?! That can't do! They planned for it to get regularly 50% Crit with Point Strike (More with Argon Scope and Headshots + Limited Timer). But 100% Always?! That can't do! They must therefore nerf the entire gun to balance it around the stats my Riven can gain for it!

As you've probably guessed, a situation like that would make NO sense what-so-ever, so therefore Weapons cannot be graded and balanced based on the possible stats Rivens can gain for them. This means that Rivens and the Nerfs to their stats CANNOT be considered a nerf to the weapon they can be slotted too.

 

Yes, it's sad that the in-game object you spent plat on or spent hours Rolling does less now. I feel it, I do (I have an Arca Plasmor Riven that's taken the hit twice now), but trying to escalate the issue (Or attempting to get cheap Video views with Click-Bait Titles/Thumbnails) by claiming that DE has "Nerfed" this or that weapon is entirely the wrong way to go about this.

 

Remember: Rivens and their Dispositions do not equal The Weapon.

 

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Not only is the kuva grind extremely slow, tedious and rolling VERY RNG-reliant, but why even bother when the power you get can't be kept? Found a good weapon and riven? Well, too bad the mod will only get worse and worse over the next months.

Not to mention the fact that not power but popularity gets mods worse.

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So a dispo buff does not equal a buff? You can't be saying this for real. Or why are you making this nonsense up? DE clearly gave up on weapon balancing since they have introduced riven mods cause it's so much easier to do that than work on the weapons stats. Not to forget how horrible riven mods become below 0.7 since diversity for weapon builds becomes entirely useless too.

 

Also, Kuva farm is tedious, slow and rng reliant as hawk said above. Literally no compensation for anything. Strong weapons already clear out the garbage low level content that DE puts out. Those dispo nerfs make it even worse for endurance runs and arbitration. I'll say it again, NO riven should be below 0.7. This whole riven system is extremely toxic anyway. But do you know what's even more toxic? People defending such garbage decisions from developers. Those are the reason why so much games have been ruined in the past. 

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4 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

Not only is the kuva grind extremely slow, tedious and rolling VERY RNG-reliant, but why even bother when the power you get can't be kept? Found a good weapon and riven? Well, too bad the mod will only get worse and worse over the next months.

Not to mention the fact that not power but popularity gets mods worse.

You're already strong enough for all content. Just dont invest time into rivens if you're afraid of power loss.

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2 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

Not only is the kuva grind extremely slow, tedious and rolling VERY RNG-reliant, but why even bother when the power you get can't be kept?

I understand that feeling. They're still good, but it did twinge me a bit when I saw that the Stradavar Riven I finally rolled some awesome Stats on after 72 rolls was taking a slight Disposition hit when I checked the list. Man, didn't even get to try it out on the Prime yet too. =w="

 

(Currently I've been using a God-Tier Flux Rifle and Tonbo combo quite a bit as my "Safe" Back-Ups, but I tell ye I FEAR the day the Flux Rifle Vandal or Tonbo Prime releases.)

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What gets me are the folks who act like Sicarus Prime, Rubico Prime and similar weapons need Rivens to be good. I’ve seen people in the Dev Workshop thread denounce their supposedly favorite weapons as “trash tier” now just because their Rivens went down a few decimal places.

I honestly like how Rivens can completely change how a weapon feels or acts (eg -ips, recoil, projectile speed, ect) but it seems like many players are using them as a crutch to boost their favorite top tier gun even higher. At this point I wouldn’t mind or care if DE straight up scrapped Rivens for a comprehensive augment system or something.

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5 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

Not only is the kuva grind extremely slow, tedious and rolling VERY RNG-reliant, but why even bother when the power you get can't be kept? Found a good weapon and riven? Well, too bad the mod will only get worse and worse over the next months.

Not to mention the fact that not power but popularity gets mods worse.

Reread the announcement, they're explicitly not going off popularity anymore, but an internal measure of how powerful they think the weapon is.

In the long run this'll be better.

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On one hand, my corinth, plasmor, and supra took a hit...

On the other my spira now hits harder...

 

Plasmor though...now it feels like a Tigris riven and should just replace it with a normal mod..

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1 minute ago, Karu-QW said:

So a dispo buff does not equal a buff? You can't be saying this for real.

Oh, so, you're going to play with your Tonkor now because it got a buff, right? I mean, you don't have a Riven for it (In this example), but a buffs a buff, right, and you can't WAIT to take it off the shelf and shoot it again.....right?

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It's almost like people have, yet again, refused to acknowledge the fact that the system is designed to change over time.

We've gotten this warning from day one and people are still surprised. This community never fails to impress.

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Just now, Loza03 said:

Reread the announcement, they're explicitly not going off popularity anymore, but an internal measure of how powerful they think the weapon is.

In the long run this'll be better.

This is one of the things that caught my eye too and I agree. If in the end Riven dispositions end up stabilizing then I say bring on the changes, heck do it all in one go to get it over with rather then bit by bit.

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vor 3 Minuten schrieb trst:

It's almost like people have, yet again, refused to acknowledge the fact that the system is designed to change over time.

We've gotten this warning from day one and people are still surprised. This community never fails to impress.

So it's okay for the devs to screw up simply cause "the system is supposed to change"? Jesus H. Christ, you people like getting screwed over, right..? Can't think of anything else at this point.

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Just now, Karu-QW said:

So it's okay for the devs to screw up simply cause "the system is supposed to change"? Jesus H. Christ, you people like getting screwed over, right..? Can't think of anything else at this point.

Sorry but the only people getting "screwed over" here are the people who refuse to accept the system for what it is. If people can't accept it then stop using Rivens.

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"...And the Stradavar Prime, get this Fam, the Stradavar Prime....got a NERF....As it was RELEASED! I'm like Whuuuuut?! Dat's CRAZY! DE, Whut are y'all even doing! Hah hah!"

(If you get the mocking quote I'm making and WHO I'm mocking....well, enough said. We'll see what their Vid is like when it drops. X'D)

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vor 1 Minute schrieb trst:

Sorry but the only people getting "screwed over" here are the people who refuse to accept the system for what it is. If people can't accept it then stop using Rivens.

You're trying to tell me to just accept things? Is this what you do all your life? Man, I'm glad I'm not such a weak person.

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14 minutes ago, Karu-QW said:

So it's okay for the devs to screw up simply cause "the system is supposed to change"? Jesus H. Christ, you people like getting screwed over, right..? Can't think of anything else at this point.

Look, I knew what the system was all about. DE said time and time again that Rivens can and Will change. Yet, I chose to roll ANOTHER Arca Plamor after the first ReDisposition wave. I somewhat regret it, yes, but I knew what I was getting into and I accept that I got to play with a Dual Crit Arca Plasmor Riven for around 2 months before the stats dropped to 60% each.

 

No, it's not fun, it does hurt, but I understood the system of Temporary Power I was getting into. We all did. Just like we know that, as much as we forma and enjoy our Inaros's now, and boost up their Kill counts in the Stats screen......Inaros Prime is STILL going to come and make it nearly obsolete someday to the entire player-base. Yes, you can still play with it, but other Players will take you slightly less seriously, assuming that you either can't put in the effort to get the Prime version, or that you're just a less knowledgeable or skilled player in general. It's different from the Riven Shifts, but it's still some-what similar in the "This WILL Change" aspect.

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10 minutes ago, Tangent-Valley said:

"...And the Stradavar Prime, get this Fam, the Stradavar Prime....got a NERF....As it was RELEASED! I'm like Whuuuuut?! Dat's CRAZY! DE, Whut are y'all even doing! Hah hah!"

(If you get the mocking quote I'm making and WHO I'm mocking....well, enough said. We'll see what their Vid is like when it drops. X'D)

would it happen to be a very sassy warframe player who is not @DeMonkey?

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14 minutes ago, Karu-QW said:

So it's okay for the devs to screw up simply cause "the system is supposed to change"? Jesus H. Christ, you people like getting screwed over, right..? Can't think of anything else at this point.

Yes...it happened once and it's like totally on you if you fall into the same pit twice.

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The problem is that rivens require too much time investment for them to be changed arbitrarily based on the feels of the developers, and they often nerf weapons that are the most fun/well designed or they hit an entire category (like all of the sniper rifles) because they're really good at one specific thing.  They're also seemingly replacing actual weapon balance changes, and there's far more bad weapons than there are good ones by a wide margin.

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DE #*!%ed up greatly the day they introduced rivens

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While not true for everyone who is upset, it's not just about the 'nerf'. It's about the fact that these changes are based on a popularity contest that no one entered. It's about DE telling players without words that they don't like our weapon choices and they plan to change that.

Are these weapons all still viable with their changes? I'm sure for the most part they are - I cannot say for certain because I'm not affected and therefore cannot give accurate testing information.

That said min/maxing and meta builds will always exist, DEs constant need to fight that is absurd and not needed. If they truly want to balance weapons they will reevaluate all the weapons and adjust. Rivens are nothing more than a bandaid to a larger problem.

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2 minutes ago, Zyneris said:

It's about the fact that these changes are based on a popularity contest that no one entered. It's about DE telling players without words that they don't like our weapon choices and they plan to change that

DE claims to be working on this, and as an example, despite its Player-wide popularity among MR of all counts, they buffed up the Soma/Soma Prime's Riven Disposition.

They're working on it, they are.....but it still hurts me every time this wave hits. (Again, my poor Arca Plasmor Riven(s)...)

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1 minute ago, Tangent-Valley said:

DE claims to be working on this, and as an example, despite its Player-wide popularity among MR of all counts, they buffed up the Soma/Soma Prime's Riven Disposition.

They're working on it, they are.....but it still hurts me every time this wave hits. (Again, my poor Arca Plasmor Riven(s)...)

But then they nerf weapons based on their feelings rather than actual measurable statistics, or entire classes of weapons (like the sniper rifles) because they're really good at one specific thing (Eidolons), or just nerf weapons with a fun gimmick to them.

 

 

They're not improving any of the already bad/boring weapons, no matter if their riven dispo was set to 2.0, it won't fix weapons like the Stug.  Instead of changing rivens they need to change the weapons.

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1 minute ago, Tangent-Valley said:

DE claims to be working on this, and as an example, despite its Player-wide popularity among MR of all counts, they buffed up the Soma/Soma Prime's Riven Disposition.

They're working on it, they are.....but it still hurts me every time this wave hits. (Again, my poor Arca Plasmor Riven(s)...)

Upheaval is going to continue to worsen as players are tired of being told "we're working on it...." and when changes are made they are made for the worse followed by radio silence.

I'll agree that Arca didn't need another nerf. The weapon really has lost it's shine. The Soma, while a good example, is one example. One of MANY fan favorite weapons. If they could provide concrete evidence that nerfing say the sniper rifles was NEEDED then I'd happily rethink my conclusion, but currently it's literally them choosing which weapons they accept and which they don't. 

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Riven stats based on popularity were a mistake.

Doesn't fix weapons with low base stats (seer,veldt), and prettymuch forces DE to do extra work, changing the stats manually.

 

But, on topic, people get rivens, spending time, kuva, and endo, because they want a weapon to be stronger. This obviously does not equate to the stat changes being the weapon changes, but you can't blame people for being upset over this. One way or another, hard work put into an investment was either rewarded or punished with these changes, something completely out of the player's control. Obviously, this can frustrate, and saying "Don't be mad it's not a big deal" won't quite fix the whole issue.

And of course, people will be outspoken due to this anger, making vids and topics based on these changes. It's natural for big events to stand out and have discussion open about them. Not something one can call 'right' or 'wrong'. Clickbait title or no, escalation, such things are prone to happen, and lecturing on the issue won't have too much of an effect... at least, if my experience on similar issues provides any insight.

I don't like uproar over choices like this as much as the next one, but in this case, (and most) the frustration is justified. When groups of people complain, it is never for no reason. the people who say 'My weapon has been nerfed' almost always mean 'my weapon feels weaker'.... because, it would be true.

But if my history and predictions are accurate, this will all fade, inevitably. Topics, Clickbait for views, even metacomplaints like this thread, all of that won't matter in time. It'll all get slowly quiet, and soon, we'll await the next set of disposition changes.

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