How about Loki, but good? (Rework ideas)

[Blade_Wolf_16]

So, Loki is currently one of the most basic and simple Warframes we have atm. You almost never see one, either because he's only used for Spy or because the player spends the whole mission invisible. Also, his abilities have either 1 or 2 stats, have very few effects without Augment Mods and are only affected by Range and Duration, which means that build diversity is pretty lacking. 

The playstyle is usualy the same, no matter the player : Spam Invisibility+Melee and Radial Disarm with or without the Augment. That's pretty much it. His Decoy is weak and doesn't scale well, making it pretty useless for mid to high level content. His Switch Teleport is mostly used with Decoy to cheese Spy mission lasers or troll allies. Other than that, there's not much to do with him.

What I'd personnaly like is for him to have more control on the battlefield with traps, synergies and silly tricks, as well as some more team-friendly effects and more strategic gameplay possibilities. Well, just more possibilities would be good start imho.

 

Here's some ideas, feel free to agree or disagree, propose changes and what not (also, please tell me if something not clear enough so I can clarify for everybody) :

 

Passive: (Ideas, not all at the same time)

• +25% Finisher and Ground Finisher Damage (not stealth damage). +50% Status Chance on Ground Finishers.
• +20% Melee damage and Parkour Velocity when holding a Dagger, Dual Daggers or a Glaive.
• When shields are depleted, creates 2 Decoys in front of Loki that moves forward (where the character is looking) and last 6 sec. Loki gains a 25% Evasion buff for 6 sec. Has a 30 sec cooldown. Each kill via Finishers and Ground Finishers reduces the cooldown by 3 sec. (Decoys created by the Passive cannot be Switch Teleported, nor be used for any synergy or Savior Decoy)
• Loki's abilities cannot be jammed.

 

1. Decoy : (The main power remains as it is. Casting will create a Decoy where the player is aiming that attracts enemies' attention. The synergies I want to suggest will be in the other sections.)

Révélation

• Adds a 3 sec invulnerability (not affected by mods) where received damage from enemy attacks will be changed into health (Damage x 2 = bonus health, affected by Power Strenght). 50% of the bonus will be granted to Shields, while the other 50% will be granted as bonus HP.  
• On death (either by being killed by enemies or after the duration expires), the Decoy will explode, dealing 40% of the total damage taken (not hp loss, so receiving more damage than it's max health will allow more damage. Not affected by Power Strenght)+their remaining Health/Shieds as (50% Blast, 25% Magnetic and 25% Electricity) damage in a 8m Radius (affected by Range) with forced Blast Proc. Killing the Decoy by casting it while it's active won't count as a death, so the Decoy won't explode nor deal anything to surrounding enemies.
• Charging the ability will create 3 moving Decoys instead of 1 immobile. Invincibility reduced to 2sec (not affected by mods) and damage conversion is reduced to x1.50 (affected by Mods). The Decoys will start with a linear trajectory for 10m (not affected by mods), one going the way the player is aiming, other going left and right of that same point (so they don't go towards Loki). After the 10m or after being knocked down, staggered or blocked by terrain, they will behave as normal specters, except they won't follow Loki. The Duration of the ability remains the same. 
• When the charged Decoys die (either by damage or end of the ability), they each deal 25% of the total damage they've taken + remaining HP/Shields (Only affects the concerned Decoy. Their damage output is calculated individualy, so they do not boost each other. Also, not affected by Mods) in a 5m radius (affected by mods) as Blast Damage. Each Decoy will have a 50% chance to deal a Blast proc and Disarm, 35% chance to Blind for 6 second (not affected by Mods) and 15% chance to deal a Slash Proc (based on the explosion damage) to surrounding enemies. Each effect is based on a different stat. Power Strenght will affect the chances to deal a Slash proc, while Duration affects the chances to deal a Radial Blind. Range will affect the chances to deal a Blast Proc and Disarm. 
• For Savior Decoy : The Decoy with the least remaining health will receive the damage Loki should have received, while the player switch position with the Decoy with the most remaining health.

2. Invisibility:  (Main ability remain as it is.)

Révélation

• Do not interupt movement anymore. Can be casted while sprinting, jumping, reloading, shooting, etc.
• 50% of the damage taken while invisible will be reflected to the enemy as Radiation damage with 40% Status Chance (affected by mods).
• Increases Movement Speed and Parkour Velocity by 10% (affected by Mods).

3. Switch Teleport: (Mostly synergies and QoL)

Révélation

• Deals an Impact Proc to all enemies in a 5m radius around Loki after switching. (affected by Mods)
• If Loki switched with an enemy, it'll suffer from a Radiation Proc for 8 sec. (not affected by mods)
• If Loki switched with an ally, it'll cause the same AoE Impact Proc. (But not the Radial Blind)
• If Loki switched with a Decoy, the Decoy will emit a pulse that drags enemies within a 10m radius (affected by Mods) towards it, then Disarm them. (Works with Savior Decoy)
• If Loki switched with an enemy or a Decoy while Invisibility is active, the AoE Impact Proc is replaced by a 8m Radial Blind (not affected by mods) that stuns enemies for 6 sec. (Works with Savior Decoy) 
• If Loki switched with an ally while Invisibility is active, the ally will be invisible and immune to Status Effects for 8 sec (not affected by Mods).

4. Radial Disarm: (More synergies and effects, same range as before.)

Révélation

• Deals 700 Impact damage to melee units and/or already-disarmed enemies and 325 Slash Damage when disarming humanoid enemies with 100% chance to deal a Slash Proc. Also, deals 700 damage (50% Magnetic, 50% Electric) to MOAs, Ratels, etc. with 100% Status Chance (Damage is affected by Mods)
• If a non-charged Decoy is within the ability's range, the Decoy will deal an AoE Electric Proc within an 8m radius to every enemies, including those who where already disarmed. In the case of Charged Decoys, each Decoy in range will deal either a Blast (35% chance), Electric (30% chance) or Puncture+Impact (35% chance)proc within 6m. (Range and Duration are affected by Mods)
• If casted while Invisibility is active, enemy defenses (Armor and Shields) will be reduced by 40% for 6 sec (Affected by mods) and enemies within 10m of Loki will be pushed back (similar to Banshee's Sonic Boom). Strenght of the knockback is affected by both Strenght and Range mods.

 

So, what do you guys think?

Edited April 3, 2019 by Blade_Wolf_16
Removed damage synergy with Decoy+RD and the Finisher synergy of Invis.+RD.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

*Slaps OP's hand* Paws off my starter boi Loki! He's a beautiful and independent frame who needs no plastic surgeries!

 

---

 

Now jokes aside, I do see a lot of Loki's around. One of the frames I see regularly, truth be told, as he's still relevant even without all the reworks other frames had to go trough.

I do like some of these changes, however. His Decoy could use a serious survivability buff. His invisibility could indeed be activated like Ash's. His teleport also seems interesting.

The only one I don't see any reason to change, even if the suggestion was not bad, is his radial disarm. I mean, Loki's purpose is precisely to not be an offensive frame at all. And he counters that by being the trickster who fools enemies with a fake target, bypasses and kills them while not see like a sly assassin, switches them and confuses them, and ultimately nullifies their weaponry.

Loki's survivability is good, but it has nothing to do with offensive capabilities. In fact, that's what makes him special. Can't get killed by melee'd targets who can't even see you, right?

But that's just my opinion. Even if implemented I don't see these changes ruining him. And there's frames in much dire need of a rework, truth be told.

[Blade_Wolf_16]

il y a 3 minutes, (PS4)Pauloluisx a dit :

*Slaps OP's hand* Paws off my starter boi Loki! He's a beautiful and independent frame who needs no plastic surgeries!

 

---

 

Now jokes aside, I do see a lot of Loki's around. One of the frames I see regularly, truth be told, as he's still relevant even without all the reworks other frames had to go trough.

I do like some of these changes, however. His Decoy could use a serious survivability buff. His invisibility could indeed be activated like Ash's. His teleport also seems interesting.

The only one I don't see any reason to change, even if the suggestion was not bad, is his radial disarm. I mean, Loki's purpose is precisely to not be an offensive frame at all. And he counters that by being the trickster who fools enemies with a fake target, bypasses and kills them while not see like a sly assassin, switches them and confuses them, and ultimately nullifies their weaponry.

Loki's survivability is good, but it has nothing to do with offensive capabilities. In fact, that's what makes him special. Can't get killed by melee'd targets who can't even see you, right?

But that's just my opinion. Even if implemented I don't see these changes ruining him. And there's frames in much dire need of a rework, truth be told.

I see what you mean. I admit my suggestions for RD might be too damage-focused for his theme. I tried to keep the damage kinda low so it's not just a nuke, but I think I'll change the Decoy synergy for it. 

Thanks for the feedback :)

[xZeromusx]

Loki is already godly...

Edited April 3, 2019 by xZeromusx

[Blade_Wolf_16]

Il y a 3 heures, xZeromusx a dit :

Loki is already godly...

Tbh, I've had enough of "Loki master race" memes. It's about as old as the game, and I don't think it has ever been so far from the truth than now.

His kit is basic and lacks versatility; it's literaly the oldest kit left untouched since the Closed Beta (or something like that). His abilities are outdated and outperformed by most Warframes nowadays, either new ones or reworked ones. 

There's nothing cool or badass (at least imho) in spamming melee while invisible for the duration of the mission. There's no trick, no trap, no control over the battlefield, nothing that can justify his trickster theme. 

[xZeromusx]

5 minutes ago, Blade_Wolf_16 said:

Tbh, I've had enough of "Loki master race" memes. It's about as old as the game, and I don't think it has ever been so far from the truth than now.

His kit is basic and lacks versatility; it's literaly the oldest kit left untouched since the Closed Beta (or something like that). His abilities are outdated and outperformed by most Warframes nowadays, either new ones or reworked ones. 

There's nothing cool or badass (at least imho) in spamming melee while invisible for the duration of the mission. There's no trick, no trap, no control over the battlefield, nothing that can justify his trickster theme. 

His first ability: Place it behind a wall or in an area that enemies have to walk to in order to attack it, because the taunt is not blocked by cover, and enemies will move to try to attack it, effectively making it your low cost, low duration CC ability to give your team some breathing room for a few moments or to gather enemies up, especially if you run Fleeting Expertise. Pretty good already, and yeah, probably better with some increased durability, but I'm honestly not hurting for it.

His second ability: Stealth, because why not? Unlike Ivara, this stealth still allows you to benefit from the Zenurik school energy recovery traits, Trinity's energy vampire, and all the other fun little sustainability buffs.

His third ability: Teleport in and out of pretty much anything, as well as confuse enemies that you teleport. Teleport an ally out of danger, teleport an enemy towards your allies so they can gang bang them. Teleport yourself out of danger. You can also be a serious troll with this ability.

His fourth ability: You're literally a judge from the Final Fantasy RTS games, commanding those you choose on the battlefield to be forced to lose their ability to attack from range. Might I suggest running the augment too which can cause them to attack each other?

A buff for Loki? Sure, why not? He can already cause complete havoc on the battlefield while controlling enemies and supporting allies and deciding tactics from level 1 to 150 when played right. Sometimes a basic kit is all you really need.

[Kerberos-3]

4 hours ago, Blade_Wolf_16 said:

Tbh, I've had enough of "Loki master race" memes. It's about as old as the game, and I don't think it has ever been so far from the truth than now.

His kit is basic and lacks versatility; it's literaly the oldest kit left untouched since the Closed Beta (or something like that). His abilities are outdated and outperformed by most Warframes nowadays, either new ones or reworked ones. 

There's nothing cool or badass (at least imho) in spamming melee while invisible for the duration of the mission. There's no trick, no trap, no control over the battlefield, nothing that can justify his trickster theme. 

Are you kidding? His current kit is practically the trickster theme in it's purest form. Mislead enemies with a doppelganger, disable their ability to fight back, turn invisible whenever you want with minimal restrictions placed on you while invisible. Loki is the trickster, no doubts there.

[Walkampf]

vor 13 Stunden schrieb Blade_Wolf_16:

You almost never see one,

His second skill is called 'Invisibility' so....

 

But in all seriousness, Loki is amazing. His skills might be basic, but they are very funtkional, so there arn't exacly a lot of people who think he needs to be reworked.

Further, his Augments are almost universally great, which allows the user to add very powerful effects to the base abilities.

Edited April 4, 2019 by Walkampf

[KiRa_69]

Loki is not an offense frame so I don't get the whole "Radiation and Impact" procs 

On the subject of decoy,I love your idea for it and the passive 

I agree that invisibility should be castable while moving

But the switch teleport 

• If Loki switched with a Decoy, the Decoy will emit a pulse that drags enemies within a 10m radius (affected by Mods) towards it, then Disarm them. (Works with Savior Decoy)
• If Loki switched with an enemy or a Decoy while Invisibility is active, the AoE Impact Proc is replaced by a 8m Radial Blind (not affected by mods) that stuns enemies for 6 sec. (Works with Savior Decoy) 
• If Loki switched with an ally while Invisibility is active, the ally will be invisible and immune to Status Effects for 8 sec (not affected by Mods).

These are okay,but the rest just does not make sense personally.

Overall I think those are good rework ideas 👍

[(PSN)gershwonder]

there's a simple reason Loki's kit hasn't been touched; it's good enough and NEEDS no changes.

 

could his Decoy be more tanky? sure. but IMO that would bumb down the ability since currently Decoy's usefulness depends on how cleverly you can put it to use; for example  skilled/informed players know that by careful placement of the Decoy (out of ranged enemy LOS) you can turn enemies into bumbling idiots, or in combination with Radial Disarm you can easily group up enemies for melee or AOE guns. also, this ability doesn't need to deal damage as that's not its purpose and is an unnecessary addition.

 

Invisibility is one of the most OP effects in the game. not only does it grant a passive damage buff, but it's also arguably the best defensive ability especially in terms of scaling, being just as effective vs level 500 enemies as it is vs level 50S. adding all these other passives to Invisibility will make it more akin to Ocativas Invisibility, because reasons? again, unnecessary.

 

some of the Switch Teleport stuff seems cool though.

 

Radial Disarm too is one of the better CC+survivability skills in the game. it doesn't need tweaking

 

TL;DR: a basic kit doesn't necessarily mean a bad kit. a more complex kit doesn't necessarily mean a better kit

Edited April 4, 2019 by (PS4)gershwonder

[Guest]

Other than the exploding decoy ... what about no to everything else.

I mean the decoy exploding would be pretty fun. The rest just makes him clunky to play.

Oh and 300 shields would be nice to bring him in line with Ivara.

Edited April 4, 2019 by Guest