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[DE]Bear

Dev Workshop - Cannot Cast in the Air: Friend or Foe?

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You should make it so Rhino crashes down like a meteor from casting stomp in the air for more "heroic" impact. XD

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also look into being able to cast while moving.  I have gotten in the habit with some frames of jumping, aim-gliding, and then casting while in the air since the animation will stop movement while running.... but not while in the air

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This sounds fantastic. I hope to see an early version implemented into the game soon.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, [DE]Bear said:

Greetings, Tenno!

Right from the start, abilities should be able to be casted from/in the air, else what is space ninja?

Though you have to be specific since people will misunderstand like for example the rhino stomp, there are already people misunderstood that it is stomping in the air, but in fact it is 'able to be cast ability from the air' and not 'cast ability in the air'. So you have to let people know which abilities can do which, else there will be lots of questions out of the confused.

Edited by kyori

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Take the idea of his passive and apply it to his stomp when cast in the air. The higher he was when it was used will make it a stronger/longer/wider effect but potentially have a longer recovery time so it isn't just a free bonus.

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Others have mentioned it but it really would be great to see abilities which work by impacting the ground, having a bonus depending on the height the ability is cast from. Even the mod Heavy Impact (and Rhino's passive) could be given the same treatment.

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Posted (edited)

If Rhino's Stomp will make him drop kick to the ground, his Passive and Heavy Impact should be allowed to go off.

 

Honestly, after playing the game for a while, you hardly see any Rhinos utilizing the passive.

 

Edit: Didn't see the above post. Nice to know others think the same!

Edited by Raynuva
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This would be awesome!
Playing an EV/Link Trin always felt a bit off because you couldn't use essential abilities mid-air.

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Please do this change. We spend the majority of our time playing in the air while bullet jumping, double jumping, etc. This will help the game feel more fluid. Some changes to animations would be really nice as having a warframe go into a standing stance in the air does look kinda strange. 

You could take the spinning motion that throwing a glaive does while in the air and apply that to more abilities when used in air. 

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Posted (edited)

I'm honestly not sure what you're asking for here.
That said.


Friend or Foe? Really depends on what the purpose of it is. And I expect that that depends on which lens you're looking at it through.  

There are likely other perspectives, but off the top of my head, we have technicalities, aesthetics and game balance. Respectively:
* Technicalities, e.g.: Does it exist because there's no code support for casting abilities in the air?
* Aesthetics, e.g.: Does it exist for certain abilities (e.g. Rhino Stomp) because casting it in the air clashes with the fluff or aesthetic of the ability?
* Game balance, e.g.: Does it exist as an intentional design choice, as part of either a restriction-for-the-sake-of-balance, or an intentional in-combat-decision for the player to have to consider (i.e. is it safe to use this at this moment? Do I expect the payoff to be worth the risk of being static and (potentially) exposed to cast)?

Consider Loki's Invisibility vs. Ash's Smoke Screen.
Invis can be cast midair, but locks you into animation if cast on the ground.
Smoke Shadow can be cast in midair, but -as a one-handed action - does not lock you into an animation.
This has implications on their combat usability, as well as their mobility-usability (which, in turn has further ramifications on their combat usability).
Combine this with Invis' 50e cost/12s dur vs. Smoke Screen's 35e/8s dur, and while they've near identical energy cost per sec of invisibility, you end up with 2 frames that feel very different:

When it comes to mobility, Loki is fast where Ash is agile.
Loki's longer invisibility lends itself to more skullduggery, where Ash's lower uptime enforces more frequent windows of vulnerability, necessitating lightning strikes where Loki can afford to skulk.
With how Invis restricts mobility combining with the rest of his kit, if Loki gets caught out, is best bet is to drop a Decoy, then get the hell out of Dodge while recasting Invis on the fly (if you'll excuse the play on words), only to return with some comeuppance. Ash, conversely, is better off recasting his Smoke Screen while he repositions, never actually being forced to disengage.
And so on.

Side note: As opposed to Loki's 'Void Magic™', Ash "turns invisible" via the stereotypical 'smashing a smoke bomb on the ground'. How does this work in midair?


TL;DR - I hate to harp on this point, but once again we come to a topic where DE need to make a choice as to what a certain thing is intended to be.
Context is king, and without it your question doesn't have a single, clear or consistent answer, just a mass of disjointed, incoherent individual cases.

Edited by Chroia
Expanded slightly.

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I would love to Banshee's 1 and Inaros' 1 be visually directional from mid air, currently they cast straight forward as if you're standing on the ground.  It would look cool to shower the ground w/ particle effects from mid-air.  I would also like for Hydroid's 3 to retain it's momentum/angle from mid-air cast, currently you drop straight down.  Maybe for Nidus' 1 when cast from the air it creates a small circle of infested "stuff" where your cursor is aimed in lieu of the line that can only be spawned from the ground presently.  Casting Oberon's 2 from mid-air would be great too, perhaps it can adopt some of the properties that Hildryn's 4 has with respect to height & AOE.

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rhino stomp need some changes .. add buff or more dmg or anything to convince me to use it... what we saw in your video is same what his passive does knock down all mobs around him and give him few sec of cc which also kinda same what melee slam attack does too .. knock down all mobs around him and give wf few sec of cc .. i know rhino stomp does have dmg and longer duration but imo 

double bullet jump 90 degrees high and let rhino come down (his passive) < jump and slam attack (kinda faster) 

but also jump and slam attack > jump and cast 4 (kinda slower bcos of cast animation) ... 

right now rhino stomp is working fine as it is bcos rhino can cast and perform the cast animation instantly in the ground .. why would i use in mid air if i can just hit E for faster knockdown 

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This is good, but you guys should really consider taking the time to make some new animations for abilities used in the air, even for older abilities that already can be. Many abilities just end up looking like you're standing in the air when you use them.

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1 hour ago, [DE]Bear said:

 

So in both these cases, please note, this is still early days. This is a 'proof of concept' obviously, but suggestions like these will certainly help towards what we would need to look at.

yesssssssss
the footwork will need some extra animating
imagine trinity casting link in air, and her toe just pointing downwards, ballerina style, or like titania passive anims


ooh and also casting volt's ult should raise him up in momentum x3 ( i know volt's ult can already be cast in air, but it always feels like that hardcoded part of the animation that raises him up, should be momentum affected, not continuing to let the player drop downwards if it was cast in air, but billowing up like a small jellyfish xD)


well anyway the whole freedom of air casting finally being included is amazing, and thank you all for that!

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cmon guys stop complaining about animations it's a tech demo made with existing mechanics in like an hour or so:crylaugh:

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

So, enter the Aimed Ground Slam:

The idea is that we take the mechanics used in the new Melee rollout and apply them to powers that require the floor, potentially with new effects. See above that Rhino can ACTUALLY cast Stomp in air now, which results in slamming into the ground to cast!

This video makes joy fountain from Rhino's eyeballs.

 

Out of curiosity, though-- is this video representative of the final product? i.e. Are these abilities going to "ground slam" the instant they're activated?
I think it would look+feel better if the "ground slam" was delayed until certain point in the casting animation.

For example, let's say Stomp only "ground slam'd" upon the actual stomping part of the animation. So you're in the air, you aim down and press 4, and then this happens in order:

1: 100 energy is lost, casting animation begins (Rhino begins lifting up his foot)
2: A critical point in the animation is reached (Rhino's foot reaches peak height and begins moving downwards)
3: The warframe "ground slams" downwards (Rhino rapidly moves downwards until he touches the ground)
    3.5: The animation continues without interruption while step 3 occurs (Rhino's stomping animation continues until the ability is cast and the animation ends)

Bonus points if the animation is interrupted (i.e. the casting animation freezes at the "critical point" and step 3.5 doesn't happen) until the warframe is in contact with the ground. Basically how Reinhardt and Lucio's ultimates are handled in Overwatch.

Edited by SortaRandom

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I LOVE Aimed Ground Slam!  Make my dreams come true about air-use for all abilities 😄

Seriosly, how  it's great feeling, when you running as Volt and zap enemies in jump!... And when you peak rhino and he is like "no, you need to stay on the ground". Or  Oberon, who can't cast his grass in air. Why he can't? He need to plant it with his bare hands, using a shovel? I don't think so )))

 

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43 minutes ago, MartinVole said:

You should make it so Rhino crashes down like a meteor from casting stomp in the air for more "heroic" impact. XD

EZ

 

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One thing about rhino's stomp that i think would add to the "Oomph" is making a similar explosion and residual impact  bumpmap crater that is similar to the new custom colored ground slam attack to make it feel like the resulting shockwave looks noticeably more powerful.

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Yes please. Im pretty sure there would literally be nobody upset about the change, since it just gives the player more freedom

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