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[DE]Bear

Dev Workshop - Cannot Cast in the Air: Friend or Foe?

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Posted (edited)

Also might be a good time to rework Excaliburs vary weak insignificant radial javeline?

And how bout we delete the unnecessary "super hero" landing too? 

Edited by (XB1)RDeschain82

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Finally! Thank you.

Just please, let the rhino actually charge the stomp in-air, then divebomb.

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The Rhino one should be like casting in the air then stomp down on the ground would felt much better imo.

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I just got harrow, and have been trying to cast his abilities "just before i bullet jump" so that half of the cast of his abilities is done mid bullet jump and the other half on the ground whilst he lands. To speed up the animation for the spell. Lol. Whilst its cool, i was so hoping I could 'self-punish' whilst moving :P.

Thank you DE for realising this was something players wanted.

Makes some frames seem hugely more enticing that they now may be as fluid as other frames.

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YES PLEASE! Let us be bullet jumping mid-air casting space ninjas! :3

Also, the Rhino dive bomb stomp others mentioned sounds like something that could be... impactful?

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Excellent! One of the most jarring changes was when Loki's 4 was patched to no longer be castable in air. I used to (irradiating) disarm mid-bullet jump and that change totally messed me about for a while. Glad I'll be able to do it once more.

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Posted (edited)

its good but enemies are getting more and more ignore warframe power....

I can see some of air casting ran into hell already.

Edited by Scarletwing
typo

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vor 13 Stunden schrieb [DE]Bear:

The idea is that we take the mechanics used in the new Melee rollout and apply them to powers that require the floor, potentially with new effects. See above that Rhino can ACTUALLY cast Stomp in air now, which results in slamming into the ground to cast!

Looks great, but specifically in Rhinos case, I have a quastion:

Will Stomp scale with jump-hight? Basically as a nod to his passive?

So, for example, he get's up to additional 10% bonus to the abilities parameters, if Stomp is used in the air?

So, 2% when used from a small hop and the full 10% from and above a certain hight?

 

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Posted (edited)

This is really cool

But, since Rhino's passive is meh "heavy landing" thing, can you actually add him that if he casts it in the air - the higher he was, the heavier damage he will deal?

Like, 1000 dmg for 100m high (in plains or vallis) will not brreak the balance, but will make it more fan and satislying (for me, atleast)

Edited by TheOlright

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vor 15 Stunden schrieb [DE]Bear:

[...]

the greatness of this thread/plan aside, this whole topic might also be a chance to do a revisit of zephyr, not a rework, just a revisit. im not saying she sux or anything unproductive as that, BUT her kit is not going to improve the more time passes, with newer, interesting frames coming for sure and with new mechanics also on mods, unless there will be something tailored just for her but i doubt that. her kit doesnt really scale well, especially not with enemy level and that is not a good formular to counteract the progress of aging.

as a result of that i would love to see some specific improvements to her kit, which, as a basis is already more awesome than many people might think.

it is really fun to fly around and reach real heights on fortuna for example, or the plains, BUT it serves no real purpose other than mobility and this suggestion is something ive probably posted in the past for more than 1 time already but hope dies last:

please consider giving dive bomb a height/speed/distance multiplier for its damage and range. anything that makes height important for her in that regard. it would be so amazing to fly real high and then become a "living" comet. it could potentially have real synergy with her other abilities too.

dive bombing on a tornado detonates it into a windy, slashing AoE burst or enlargens it shortly to then pull enemies in range into it when it returns to normal size.

her turbulence could have synergy with dive bomb if it had speed scaling to increase its dmg and AoE range so that ability is already really fine, aside of being already good.

air burst could also push tornados into a certain direction aside of just giving them size/height. if we wanted to go really crazy on the synergy train -> casting air burst whilst performing dive bomb -> adds 125% of air bursts damage to dive bombs base damage instead of shooting the projectiles. this could ofc apply to her tailwind, not just dive bomb, same goes for the aoe/dmg scaling on speed/distance/height although height makes less sense.

i do realise this has not a lot to do with the topic of this thread itself, but since zephyr is our airborne frame i literally had to think of zephyr and her theme before anything else when i read this thread since she basically has synergy with being in the air, mainly with her 1 but still, but sadly shes not amongst the most awesome frames. shes fun...but thats also so sad on the flipside because of what she could be. fun, yes....very good ? well...

BUT i think the new ground slam could come in handy for zephyr. i dont know the technical stuff but when aiming to the ground and then performing ground slam, the game kind of has to calculate the distance beforehand to know when to finish the animation, so to say, right ? that could be something to give zephyr that height scaling for her dive bomb. since we already have distance indication on marking enemies/ressources/environment i dont think its impossible in any case i assume. speed scaling also shouldnt be an issue i think.

still hoping 😄 

greetings~

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I hope that DE will also consider adding different animations for air casting. Many of the current abilities that can already be used in the air dont match the flow of the animation that occurs during the jump which results it looking very awkward. Trinity becoming able to cast Link in the air is already a example of awkwardness.

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What about removing rhino's need for iron shrapnel just to get the side effect of recasting his iron skin? Honestly we either need more fixes on abilities or an augment section separation from normal mods because sacrificing mods space for functionality is absurd in 2019!

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16 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

So, what if we got rid of restrictions on air-casting?

Nice! Do Frost next please! Just make the animation stick to the ground below Frost. It so awkward to be jumping around inches from the ground and I can't cast it. Simple solution is just to make it clip to the ground right below. (Maybe ground slam into avalanche?) Just awkward to go from Volt to Frost and rhythm is just slowed down.

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Sounds good, but some abilities certainly need different animations in the air.

The same could be said about other abilities that can be cast mid-air but look odd currently, like Bless or Molecular Prime. These abilities should probably getthe ground slam treatment as well. 

It might also be beneficial to have some kind of enemy knock back or brief damage reduction when you impact the ground with these types of abilities.

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Definitely looking forward to seeing if anything can be done for lokis 4 to be air castable. And maybe a stationary ground cast instead of stepping forward off things with the animation for ground cast

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Nice!

Nova and Ember should be able to cast everything in the air as well.
Air cast doesnt break the flow of combat that way

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This mechanic seems to be a really great jumping off point (hah) for ability improvements to the game. I really appreciate the thought that went into this and the potential it could have in future warframes. I would absolutely love to see this in-game. However I think this brings up a bigger issue with certain warframe abilities and that is the ones that lock you in place altogether. 

If the idea is to make movement more fluid between ability casts, gunplay, and swordplay, then shouldn't most abilities have the chance to be cast while running? This treatment was given to many warframes upon reworks, (excalibur's radial blind, saryn's spores, mag's magnetize, etc.) which shows it is possible without being intrusive. These changes were some of my favorite among reworks, and felt like the frames had way more mobility without actually adding any mods or mechanics.

I understand this idea may be against some of the core abilities of some warframes. For instance, I remember when zephyr prime first came out, there was a short while where I was able to cast all 4 of her abilities while running. Thinking it was part of her redesign, I had a lot of fun with it, only for it to be patched out shortly after. (or maybe it was a bug, I don't remember because it was so long ago). At the very least, I firmly believe that if the ability being cast involves mostly hand movements, it should be able to be cast while moving to further the fluidity of movement in warframe. 

Thanks for taking the time to read this. I really appreciate the idea of air-cast abilities.

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Hello!

This is sort of on the topic of making skills feel better to cast for general gameplay use, but I'd like to address that augment mods like Smite Infusion (Oberon) or Fireball Frenzy (Ember) are kind of a pain to use on a single player. Not only do they probably have to be in range, they have to probably have to stop moving. Targeting enemies in this game, pretty easy, targeting another player that's running and jumping around at space-ninja speeds, not so great. 

Also, you'd have to recast these for each players if you wanted to buff your allies, and you can't buff yourself. You would also have to do this every 40 seconds or so to maintain the buff. Realistically, how much of that 40 seconds does it take me to find and buff the other two players? A lot of it most of the time.

The QoL I'd love to see for these mods would be that they buff allies in range of the cast (yourself included pls), or within affinity range. Even if you had to drop the damage values. I want to use these types of mods for party support very badly, but they aren't very fun to use.

Thanks for your consideration!

(PS: Please gives bows innate shatter-shot/split-shot like Pax Seeker on Headshots. Or like a mod that does this.)

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Posted (edited)

I approve of this. For the most part, I'm not even interested in in-air effects, as much as it would be nice to at least queue up the ability to fire as soon a I hit ground. E.g., for Rhino, I don't need a dive-bombing stomp - though it would be cool - I just want the stomp to trigger the very moment I touch down. I realize there's also the heavy-landing animation, and I don't want in-air casts to be a way to override that. Just as long as the stomp effect happens, I'm content to still land heavily. The animations take about the same time anyway. 

We're airborne so much of the game, I see this more as QoL than anything - it just means that when we think to use a power while airborne, it will just happen as soon as we hit ground. 

Edited by Ham_Grenabe

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Posted (edited)

Rhino stomp looks somewhat jarring. Perhaps it'd look nicer if the melee slam movement was right on the "stomp" part, or simply making the stomp start up in the air and finish on the ground. Or even a combination of both. Likewise for Banshee, have her "ready up" in the air and slam down her palms once her feet touch the ground. It'd probably require some fiddling, though...


In any case, the ability to freely cast in midair is definitely something that would give Warframe that much more fluidity. Think you can do the same for "two-handed" abilities that only really need one hand or neither (ie Link, Sonic Boom), and add mobile casting if it's relevant? Mag in her current state is a fantastic example of this, where she can cast 3 of her 4 abilities with one hand while moving. It really adds to the "ninja wizard" aspect of Warframe that's so unique to it.

Edited by JulianLynx
Paragraph spacing for readability. Is that a word?

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