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[DE]Rebecca

Another part of the POE Remaster: Economy Remaster Lite

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4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

- Replaced Arcane Blueprints with Arcanes in Quills Offerings meaning that Arcanes no longer need to be built.
- Replaced Arcane Blueprints with Arcanes in Hok's Offerings meaning that Arcanes no longer need to be built.

 

I am very disappointed in these changes.  I spent 2-3 months on the plains gathering resources and building most of the things.  I spent less than a month in Fortuna because resources were more abundant, and less useful.  I've always thought that Warframe was at its best when players had to, for lack of a better word, "work" to gain their power.  Low drop rates mean that players usually (unless they have better than average luck) have to replay the missions several times before they get that new powerful mod, or weapon blueprint. And beyond that they need to have resources like endo, credits and other crafting supplies before they get to use that power.  With powerful Items just being handed out to anyone with enough standing without having to build them it makes the power gains feel kinda hollow.  

 

4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

- Replaced Bait Blueprints with Baits in Fisher Hai-Luk’s Offerings. This means Baits are no longer craft-ception with other fish parts and can now just be bought outright for Standing.


This one I don't understand at all.  Sure, the recipe for bait needing the previous fish's parts wasn't the best idea, but that is a simple fix by adjusting the recipe. Forcing a standing cost for every fishing trip is objectively worse than a one time standing cost with a recurring cost of leftover materials from previous fishing trips.  

 

4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

- Removed Cetus Wisp costs from Operator Armour Blueprints, and replaced them with Eidolon Gems.

Can we get the same treatment for toroids in the Fortuna operator cosmetics?  Wisp runs are, generally, fast and easy.  Toroid farming is the exact opposite of that.

 

 

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Well I am glad people won't have to gather wisps by packs of 100 to get an operator arcane set done.
I'm slightly salty over the 900 wisps I collected, but am really glad for those who won't have to get as much.

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Fantastic changes. Even though I already have the arcanes it's very good and welcoming for newer players. 

Thank you. ❤️ 

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Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, (XB1)RockStarAJ said:

 

I am very disappointed in these changes.  I spent 2-3 months on the plains gathering resources and building most of the things.  I spent less than a month in Fortuna because resources were more abundant, and less useful.  I've always thought that Warframe was at its best when players had to, for lack of a better word, "work" to gain their power.  Low drop rates mean that players usually (unless they have better than average luck) have to replay the missions several times before they get that new powerful mod, or weapon blueprint. And beyond that they need to have resources like endo, credits and other crafting supplies before they get to use that power.  With powerful Items just being handed out to anyone with enough standing without having to build them it makes the power gains feel kinda hollow.  

 


This one I don't understand at all.  Sure, the recipe for bait needing the previous fish's parts wasn't the best idea, but that is a simple fix by adjusting the recipe. Forcing a standing cost for every fishing trip is objectively worse than a one time standing cost with a recurring cost of leftover materials from previous fishing trips.  

 

Can we get the same treatment for toroids in the Fortuna operator cosmetics?  Wisp runs are, generally, fast and easy.  Toroid farming is the exact opposite of that.

Toroid Runs aren't fast, but the last time I went Toroid Farming with a Nekros and a resource booster I got around 40 of each type, and it would have been more if the other members of the squad also had Nekroses.   One farming trip was enough for all the cosmetics, and my main problem not is getting enough Tellurium to build four pairs of metal pants. 

 

Edited by hyzmarca

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Posted (edited)

Lol, nooooo! I literally built my 1st arcanes this week! I think one of them is still in my foundry! RNGesus, what have I done to incur thy wrath! 😭 Hath not my offerings of relics pleased thee?

Joking aside, these sound like great improvements!

Edited by 1000_Up
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I don't know how to feel about this...

 

It's a good change for new players...definitely.

But what about the players that wasted hundreds of hours to get the wisps, to get the eidolon shards..that really feels like a kick in the ass from DE.

 

But also the materials where the reason i was going to the Plains, I don't know if I do it after this...I never felt the need to go to Orb Valis, because I can just go to Fortuna and buy some debts for standing. 

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7 часов назад, SarcasmMagic сказал:

Please make blueprints in inventory into arcanes too!

Please don't...

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Okay now for the really important question. If we capture a plains creature that drops pigments for the dojo... 1. Will it still drop said pigments? and 2. If so can we get them to drop for the whole party and not just the person who hit them with the last tranq dart?

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Good changes!

ANother thing..any chance the rewards for PoE Bounties will be tweaked to be more like Fortuna? Like with teh bonus standing for doing the objectives quick etc? That helps SO much when ranking the syndicate up.

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9 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

- Replaced Bait Blueprints with Baits in Fisher Hai-Luk’s Offerings. This means Baits are no longer craft-ception with other fish parts and can now just be bought outright for Standing.
- Reusable Fish Bait Blueprints can now be sold for 100,000 Credits. Relics of a different time for some, easy Credits for others.

Everything else with the update is awesome, but this was a mistake.

Fishing was fine as is, and I greatly preferred how Cetus USED to work.... rather than how Fortuna fishing works.  Old Cetus fishing is how fishing should have been implemented in Fortuna.  Fortuna fishing is fishing gone stupid.

 

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Kindly consider refunding materials used in crafting the arcanes if possible.

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11 hours ago, Cypher7464 said:

So what you're saying is.... Buy all the fish bait blueprints you can before they go away? gotcha!

Not sure if sarcastic

 

but Yeah, I agree

I actually prefer to craft my fish bait old PoE style, Verses the new Vallis style where they cost Standing.

while the difference won't matter to most Sane players

crafted baits means fishing is completely separate from daily standing cap; which means it can be done indefinitely, storing up all the caught rare fish as a form of uncapped Standing Reserve.

purchased bait puts a limit on the Rate they can be used, since you can't buy baits at a faster rate than your daily standing

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Posted (edited)

I greatly appreciate most of the new changes.

MOST.

The changes to the bait system, going from the good, blueprint-based system of old PoE to the irritating, direct-buy system of Fortuna, I do not like at all.

The thing is, a direct-buy system works much better for arcanes as such because they are one-time purchases. Bait however, is not. Bait is a consumable. Being forced to spend standing on a consumable is never a good thing. Standing has a daily cap on how much you can get, and farming standing has always been a thing that the playerbase found annoying on both the Plains and the Orb Vallis.

"But Jade!" you might say, "The standing cost is negligible! A couple hundred standing is practically nothing!" 

And you would be right. Except that people fishing on the Plains can go through half a dozen baits in a single trip easily, and the higher-tier baits cost not one or two hundred standing, but three, four, and five hundred standing for a single bait. Locking that behind a standing purchase every single time is drastically worse than locking it behind other fishing and a one-time standing purchase, especially when each purchase gets so expensive for a single-use consumable. Maybe if they came in packs of 10 for the same prices they have now, like the blueprints gave us each time we used them, that would help, but even then.

Several hundred standing purchased a couple dozen times, like the direct-purchase bait system forces us to do for just a few fishing trips, is tens of thousands of standing that we want to be spending on other things. For me that's merely irritating, a day or two doing a couple casual bounties when I want to be spending that game time on other things. For a lower MR player? Say, rank 7 or 8? That's several days or even a week worth of maxing out their standing limit, delaying their acquisition of many other things significantly. And that's every couple times they want to go fishing for rare fish.

I have yet to see a single positive comment on the Fortuna system of baits compared to the PoE one, save for the fact that in Fortuna the fish at least show up anyways without them, in smaller numbers. AKA: In Fortuna you can just ignore it completely. The ability to ignore a system completely being seen as a good thing is not generally seen as a ringing endorsement of that system. PoE doesn't even have that, and now we have to spend standing on a consumable. A consumable that expires after 5 minutes or so, and you have to move around to new spots to make use of it as the hotspots change, sometimes leaving behind a bait that still has half its life left or more. People have been asking to port the PoE system into FortunaNOT the other way around.

TL;DR version: A direct-buy system is great for permanent things, and I'm extremely glad the change was made for arcanes. It is not good for consumables that people burn through by the dozen, and I have no idea why you thought that particular change was a good idea. The old crafting-inception of "fish this to make this bait to fish this to make the bait for this..." and so on was bad, but this way is even worse.

All of that said, I don't mind quite so much given how many of the other changes are good. Even adding specific fish parts instead of scales to the operator outfits isn't so bad, given how many of the things that we would have been using those parts for are just gone now.

 

 

Edited by JadeKaiser
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3 hours ago, JadeKaiser said:

I greatly appreciate most of the new changes.

MOST.

The changes to the bait system, going from the good, blueprint-based system of old PoE to the irritating, direct-buy system of Fortuna, I do not like at all.

The thing is, a direct-buy system works much better for arcanes as such because they are one-time purchases. Bait however, is not. Bait is a consumable. Being forced to spend standing on a consumable is never a good thing. Standing has a daily cap on how much you can get, and farming standing has always been a thing that the playerbase found annoying on both the Plains and the Orb Vallis.

"But Jade!" you might say, "The standing cost is negligible! A couple hundred standing is practically nothing!" 

And you would be right. Except that people fishing on the Plains can go through half a dozen baits in a single trip easily, and the higher-tier baits cost not one or two hundred standing, but three, four, and five hundred standing for a single bait. Locking that behind a standing purchase every single time is drastically worse than locking it behind other fishing and a one-time standing purchase, especially when each purchase gets so expensive for a single-use consumable. Maybe if they came in packs of 10 for the same prices they have now, like the blueprints gave us each time we used them, that would help, but even then.

Several hundred standing purchased a couple dozen times, like the direct-purchase bait system forces us to do for just a few fishing trips, is tens of thousands of standing that we want to be spending on other things. For me that's merely irritating, a day or two doing a couple casual bounties when I want to be spending that game time on other things. For a lower MR player? Say, rank 7 or 8? That's several days or even a week worth of maxing out their standing limit, delaying their acquisition of many other things significantly. And that's every couple times they want to go fishing for rare fish.

I have yet to see a single positive comment on the Fortuna system of baits compared to the PoE one, save for the fact that in Fortuna the fish at least show up anyways without them, in smaller numbers. AKA: In Fortuna you can just ignore it completely. The ability to ignore a system completely being seen as a good thing is not generally seen as a ringing endorsement of that system. PoE doesn't even have that, and now we have to spend standing on a consumable. A consumable that expires after 5 minutes or so, and you have to move around to new spots to make use of it as the hotspots change, sometimes leaving behind a bait that still has half its life left or more. People have been asking to port the PoE system into FortunaNOT the other way around.

TL;DR version: A direct-buy system is great for permanent things, and I'm extremely glad the change was made for arcanes. It is not good for consumables that people burn through by the dozen, and I have no idea why you thought that particular change was a good idea. The old crafting-inception of "fish this to make this bait to fish this to make the bait for this..." and so on was bad, but this way is even worse.

All of that said, I don't mind quite so much given how many of the other changes are good. Even adding specific fish parts instead of scales to the operator outfits isn't so bad, given how many of the things that we would have been using those parts for are just gone now.

 

 

Upvote. Couldn’t have put it better myself. 

The changes are fantastic and I greatly appreciate the update. 

However it would be good for due consideration to be given to using standing to farm standing. I’d rather it go to lower level resources and be crafted than to spend standing on something. This option would settle both arguments - players can acquire bait easier but not at the cost of standing. 

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Replaced Bait Blueprints with Baits in Fisher Hai-Luk’s Offerings. This means Baits are no longer craft-ception with other fish parts and can now just be bought outright for Standing.

 

PLEASE NO. I do NOT want to farm standing just to buy baits. Repeatedly. And keep in mind it's harder to farm standing at lower ranks. PLEASE do NOT remove the BP's!  Make them optional instead! 

 

And while we are at it, Poe does not have to be exactly like Fortuna. It's preferable if they are different, to avoid burnout. Going to a different place and doing the same thing is boring. I enjoyed conservation being unique in Fotuna and would go there to do that but what's the point if it's all the same.

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On 2019-04-05 at 12:23 AM, Mackinz said:

Instead of taking away the Cetus bait blueprints, why not have the best of both worlds and sell both the blueprints and individual units of bait so there are multiple ways to obtain bait? And then back-edit that to Fortuna so people can craft servofish bait from servofish?

 

And, while you're at it, maybe add some more categories for NPC inventories like The Business so players can switch between, say, general inventory, conservation, fishing, etc.?

Here medal 🎖️ Give us choices. If I wanna work/grind/farm, let me DE.

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The Good:

RIP the 250+ Cetus Wisps I farmed during the booster weekend. I don't mind. Cetus wisps are one of the dumbest farms in the game. No challenge, no variety, no interest, just doing loops at night flying low with an Itzal. I don't mind needing a few of them - but ten per amp part, arcane, or cosmetic was ridiculous.

The Bad:

I think bait should still be craftable. That's something I like better about PoE than Fortuna. Making everything sell for rep means all you do is grind bounties or XP. It's more interesting to say "What do I need to craft my stuff. Fish, gems, what, better go find those resources" instead of "hurr durr grind more bounties."

For the same reason, I think arcanes should still be craftable, just with a few strategically reduced resource requirements. 1-2 cetus wisps? Sure. Ten per Exodia? Barf.

Suggestion:

Maybe those of us who farmed a bunch of Cetus Wisps could trade some of them for standing? The other tedious farms - fish and gems - can be traded for standing...

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Blackbeard, Jim Bowie, Tesla, Albert II etc died for Starbucks, Hot Topics and Participation Trophies. Trailblazing earns scars few acknowledge. Next generation is always viewed as whiney & spoiled by the previous.

Oxyum, mutagen samples, focus 2.5... Its happened before.

I grit my teeth but expected placation. 6 yrs of content is a lot to catch up to. 

Lore wize it bugs me most. Turn what i perceived as post depression/ww2 diy mentality of the Ostron in to cosplaying jurassic park attendants... Just add starbucks next to the guy that disappears wives.

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Posted (edited)

Just curious, what's the reasoning behind 100 creds per fish oil? That's one of the most unique changes I've seen in a while.

Edited by Jangkrik

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The ability to cook and consume fish meat/fish scales would make a great addition. While yes, Lore-wise, we have no need to intake food in the traditional way because there is a better, cleaner delivery method. But who's to say we can't indulge in Ostron cuisines?

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Posted (edited)

I agree with (most) people in this thread:

-The changes are great! Thank you.

-Can we please keep the bait blueprints tho?

Edited by youngjdef

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The only part that i disagree from the whole change is fish bait.

Now, that's absolutely grind as motherly heaven, if i want to fish something then i have to pay another standing after i "provide" fish... That's not logical, i stand by my point and i will not sell the blueprint of it. I wish the fortuna fish bait can be done via blueprint but i think that's impossible. Why we have to pay for 100 standing per fish bait while we can make one bulk of 20 of it via foundry? See? That's the problem, and i don't want to throw my standing with only 1 fish bait, and also it's RNG, i might get 2 or 3 fish per bait just because it's rare (depends on the fish also)

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