Stradavar prime aesthetics, problematic.

[auxy]

Just now, Datam4ss said:

Ya know, flechette rounds are a thing...

Can you explain why that makes any difference here?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, auxy said:

Can you explain why that makes any difference here?

Sub caliber caseless munitions can fit into a really thin barrel...

The Orokin technology is still miles ahead of our own and I'd say they have ways to use higher yield propellants and smaller bullets.

Edited April 8, 2019 by Guest

[Nukesnipe]

Man you are just really taking this way too personally.  Why are you insulted that a fake space fantasy gun looks a bit wonky?  You need to take a chill pill, bro.

[auxy]

7 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

Sub caliber caseless munitions can fit into a really thin barrel...

Well... yes, okay, although flechette munitions generally aren't "sub-caliber caseless munitions."
Flechettes are a specific type of kinetic penetrator that historically have been used with discarding sabots.

Anyway, I could get down with the sub-caliber caseless munition idea, except for a few things:

• The end of the weapon (as others have pointed out) looks more like that for an energy weapon
• The weapon's description calls it "a high-damage enforcer" which doesn't really mesh with the idea of it firing sub-caliber munitions
• It still looks really stupid even if it could theoretically make sense.

56 minutes ago, Nukesnipe said:

Man you are just really taking this way too personally.  Why are you insulted that a fake space fantasy gun looks a bit wonky?  You need to take a chill pill, bro.

You don't seem to understand the difference between something being "insultingly stupid" and someone being personally insulted.
I'm not "taking this personally." It's not about me, obviously; I'm just one player among millions.
I'm just using flavorful language to point out that the design is egregiously dumb and literalistic.

I mean, it's not as if DE is going to change it anyway, or like anyone from DE will even read this thread.
We're basically just here to complain and vent our frustrations.
If you like the gun, or you think it doesn't matter—after all, your post is basically "dude stop complaining"— why are you even here? (´・ω・)

[Nukesnipe]

51 minutes ago, auxy said:

Well... yes, okay, although flechette munitions generally aren't "sub-caliber caseless munitions."
Flechettes are a specific type of kinetic penetrator that historically have been used with discarding sabots.

Anyway, I could get down with the sub-caliber caseless munition idea, except for a few things:

• The end of the weapon (as others have pointed out) looks more like that for an energy weapon
• The weapon's description calls it "a high-damage enforcer" which doesn't really mesh with the idea of it firing sub-caliber munitions
• It still looks really stupid even if it could theoretically make sense.

You don't seem to understand the difference between something being "insultingly stupid" and someone being personally insulted.
I'm not "taking this personally." It's not about me, obviously; I'm just one player among millions.
I'm just using flavorful language to point out that the design is egregiously dumb and literalistic.

I mean, it's not as if DE is going to change it anyway, or like anyone from DE will even read this thread.
We're basically just here to complain and vent our frustrations.
If you like the gun, or you think it doesn't matter—after all, your post is basically "dude stop complaining"— why are you even here? (´・ω・)

I'm here to point out that you're overreacting.  How is it insultingly stupid?  Because the barrel is wibbly?  Okay, so what?  The Emperor is an asinine gun that makes zero sense, but you don't see people yelling at Araki for it being "insultingly stupid."  Okay, you don't like the design, that's fine.  You don't have to like every design, but you're blowing this way out of proportion to justify why you don't like it.

Edited April 8, 2019 by Nukesnipe

[Test-995]

On 2019-04-07 at 1:57 AM, Avlaen said:

i wish prime weapons could use their non primed skins, like frames

and prisma weapons could use their non-prisma sound.

i hate prisma gorgon.

[auxy]

4 hours ago, Nukesnipe said:

I'm here to point out that you're overreacting.  How is it insultingly stupid?  Because the barrel is wibbly?  Okay, so what?  The Emperor is an asinine gun that makes zero sense, but you don't see people yelling at Araki for it being "insultingly stupid."  Okay, you don't like the design, that's fine.  You don't have to like every design, but you're blowing this way out of proportion to justify why you don't like it.

JBA is a series that runs exclusively on "rule of cool" where literally nothing is coherent or sensible.
Warframe is not. Let's keep things in context here.

The only person overreacting is you. I'm not "blowing [anything] way out of proportion".
The way you're writing it's as if I said the weapon killed my parents or something. I didn't say that.
What I said is that the design was "insultingly stupid", and it is. I explained why:
It's excessively literal, and by existing the visual design ruins the elegant and dignified reference that the original weapon makes.

If you prefer, you can imagine that I just said "it looks really dumb."
Judging by your posts, I guess that's probably more on your level?

You, on the other hand, came into a thread to make bombastic, insulting, melodramatic, and most of all off-topic posts directed at me.
Which one of us is in the wrong again? What do you even want from me? What is the point of your posts?

3 hours ago, Test-995 said:

and prisma weapons could use their non-prisma sound.

i hate prisma gorgon.

There are a number of weapons where the superior weapon makes the inferior sound.
Latron Prime comes to mind as well. I love the Latron's report; it sounds beefy and punchy.
The Latron Prime sounds like a laser weapon, or perhaps a Hollywood-style "silenced" gun. Of course, it isn't silenced.

[Deadoon]

6 hours ago, auxy said:

Well... yes, okay, although flechette munitions generally aren't "sub-caliber caseless munitions."
Flechettes are a specific type of kinetic penetrator that historically have been used with discarding sabots.

That is a sub-caliber munition.

Sub caliber munition means that the projectile is smaller than the barrel of the firearm. The name even says that "sub caliber", or below caliber, as in less than the bore(barrel diameter) of the firearm in question. 

He is wrong though, the bore of a weapon is the maximum size of what can be fired. A small barrel with sub munitions doesn't make the external's of the barrel any smaller.

[auxy]

47 minutes ago, Deadoon said:

Sub caliber munition means that the projectile is smaller than the barrel of the firearm. The name even says that "sub caliber", or below caliber, as in less than the bore(barrel diameter) of the firearm in question. 

It sure is! You're right, my mistake. Thanks for informing me; I never knew.
I (incorrectly) inferred from context a long time ago that it simply meant lower-caliber, and it's just never been a problem before now.

48 minutes ago, Deadoon said:

He is wrong though, the bore of a weapon is the maximum size of what can be fired. A small barrel with sub munitions doesn't make the external's of the barrel any smaller.

Right. That's what I meant when I mentioned that they were typically sabot rounds. I probably should have explained it better.

[Nukesnipe]

4 hours ago, auxy said:

JBA is a series that runs exclusively on "rule of cool" where literally nothing is coherent or sensible.
Warframe is not. Let's keep things in context here.

The only person overreacting is you. I'm not "blowing [anything] way out of proportion".
The way you're writing it's as if I said the weapon killed my parents or something. I didn't say that.
What I said is that the design was "insultingly stupid", and it is. I explained why:
It's excessively literal, and by existing the visual design ruins the elegant and dignified reference that the original weapon makes.

If you prefer, you can imagine that I just said "it looks really dumb."
Judging by your posts, I guess that's probably more on your level?

You, on the other hand, came into a thread to make bombastic, insulting, melodramatic, and most of all off-topic posts directed at me.
Which one of us is in the wrong again? What do you even want from me? What is the point of your posts?

There are a number of weapons where the superior weapon makes the inferior sound.
Latron Prime comes to mind as well. I love the Latron's report; it sounds beefy and punchy.
The Latron Prime sounds like a laser weapon, or perhaps a Hollywood-style "silenced" gun. Of course, it isn't silenced.

>Warframe isn't a game that runs on rule of cool

Alright there buddy, I'll wait while you explain the science behind magic cyborg zombie space ninjas.

If you're gonna drop to the level of base insults because you can't come up with an argument beyond "I don't like it and I'm objectively right", then I'm out.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, auxy said:

I (incorrectly) inferred from context a long time ago that it simply meant lower-caliber, and it's just never been a problem before now.

It seems I have made the same mistake.

Still, a caseless flechette round without the sabots could potentially go into a 2mm barrel.

 

[Deadoon]

Just now, Datam4ss said:

It seems I have made the same mistake.

Still, a caseless flechette round without the sabots could potentially go into a 2mm barrel.

 

But then you deal with the expansion ratios and burn rates of the propellant. To propel it at the same velocity as a larger barrel of the same length, the pressures would need to be much higher, which means the barrel has to be thicker, which would in turn make the weapon even heavier. Remember the only difference between high explosives and propellents(also known as low explosives) is the burn rate.

Then you have to deal with the heat generation which is not being wicked away by the casing, which if the chamber gets too hot, you end up with premature firing. Funny thing is, we got the concept of casings down almost perfectly with the pressed brass(not the precursors, paper and brass foil). Draws a significant amount of heat away, provides corrosion protection to a significant degree, and isn't brittle so it can flex to handle slight firing chamber deviations and better sealing.

Caseless firearms might seem futuristic, but unless they are hybrid weapons with a small starter charge launching into some form of rail/gauss rifle system, you will suffer from the unavoidable issues of heat generation, premature detonation, corrosion, ammunition volatility(exposed violent chemicals isn't a good thing), and increased strain on the mechanism(gas seals).

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Deadoon said:

But then you deal with the expansion ratios and burn rates of the propellant. To propel it at the same velocity as a larger barrel of the same length, the pressures would need to be much higher, which means the barrel has to be thicker, which would in turn make the weapon even heavier. Remember the only difference between high explosives and propellents(also known as low explosives) is the burn rate.

Then you have to deal with the heat generation which is not being wicked away by the casing, which if the chamber gets too hot, you end up with premature firing. Funny thing is, we got the concept of casings down almost perfectly with the pressed brass(not the precursors, paper and brass foil). Draws a significant amount of heat away, provides corrosion protection to a significant degree, and isn't brittle so it can flex to handle slight firing chamber deviations and better sealing.

Caseless firearms might seem futuristic, but unless they are hybrid weapons with a small starter charge launching into some form of rail/gauss rifle system, you will suffer from the unavoidable issues of heat generation, premature detonation, corrosion, ammunition volatility(exposed violent chemicals isn't a good thing), and increased strain on the mechanism(gas seals).

The barrel can also be made of ... Wait, there is literally all sorts of unobtanium in WF like Oxium which is as strong as steel but lighter than air. So the thicker barrel argument is invalid considering in universe stuff. Corrosion? What corrosion? Again, boils down to the Orokin handwavium that just does not react.

Same for the strain and volatility - you are assuming current day propellants and materials once again. The technology is based on current day in terms of mechanics (like the shape of the action) and parts, but the materials are definitely not.

As for heat generation ... A civilisation which can literally make a hammer so cold it condenses ice (sibear) should have no issue with heat radiation. This is a civilisation which has self regenerating glass (in the Volnus), bows that can puncture even metal doors and their inferior successor civilisation (the Corpus) discovered free energy (Cycron and Plinx).

Basically the current issues with Caseless ammo we have now isn't something the Orokin is likely to face. Our current laws of physics and chemistry are irrelevant.

Trying to apply real life logic to in game unscience is as good as trying to quantify a death ray spell in anime using real life stage magic ... Which is honestly dumb.