Cetus Fishing Bait Changes are a Mistake

[Almagnus1]

Quote

• Replaced Bait Blueprints with Baits in Fisher Hai-Luk’s Offerings. This means Baits are no longer craft-ception with other fish parts and can now just be bought outright for Standing.
• Reusable Fish Bait Blueprints can now be sold for 100,000 Credits. Relics of a different time for some, easy Credits for others.

This change is a mistake.  I liked the Cetus fishing bait chain as it felt like I had achieved something when I finally got to the top tier bait... now it's just as mindless and off putting as the Fortuna fishing and I have zero reason to touch fishing bait again.

The original Cetus fishing is fishing done right, Fortuna fishing is fishing gone stupid.  Please revert this change.

[Cloverdew]

In this game, and without fishing a lot of grind. Most only welcome its reduction.

[NoLazyShadow]

It's for the better. Less grind

[SIINN]

I actually prefer the bait blueprints. I don't want to waste rep buying expensive baits since rep is capped per day. 

Edited April 5, 2019 by SIINN752

[ArcKnight9202]

I don't care for this change. While it may be simpler, again, why can't the blueprints also exist? Can we get the standing refunded for those? Probably not....

[HC217]

they added a PoE field boss that drops fish parts. it's already less grindy without expensive bait now too

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

2 hours ago, SIINN752 said:

I actually prefer the bait blueprints. I don't want to waste rep buying expensive baits since rep is capped per day. 

My guess is DE knows this

and got tired of hardcore fishermen using the Murkray Method to store up weeks of Advance Standing in the form of fish stockpiles

now that the baits and thus rare fish cost rep, it puts a cap on how much we can do each day. Its a theoretical limit... most players won't hit it, still...

[TheSkunkyMonk]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)haphazardlynamed said:

My guess is DE knows this

and got tired of hardcore fishermen using the Murkray Method to store up weeks of Advance Standing in the form of fish stockpiles

now that the baits and thus rare fish cost rep, it puts a cap on how much we can do each day. Its a theoretical limit... most players won't hit it, still...

Why are they time gating everything 😞 Do our old baits still work btw or are all those fish I gutted now useless parts?

[Teljaxx]

I like it this way much better. Being able to simply spend a couple hundred standing on whatever bait I need, when I need it, instead of having to go down the crafting chain, is really nice. Now I can actually just go fishing for Norg whenever I want, without having to catch all the other rare fish before hand.

This is why, so far, I have done so much more fishing in the Vallis than in PoE.

[ArcKnight9202]

I actually just checked and apparently the blueprints still work. I'm not sure if that will be "fixed" or if it is indeed intentional to allow players to keep the blueprints if they like them.

Edited April 5, 2019 by ArcKnight9202

[Ketec]

Adding short duration consumable to a daily capped grindy rep pool is a mistake. 

Even with hotspots you can sometimes spend the entire lure and not get any of the lured fish to spawn.
Or they spawn under the rock or so deep/far that you can't hit them.

Fish was supposed to be an alternative to grinding rep - but now it eats rep instead.

[Benour]

You still gain much more standing from single bait than its original cost, do you even brain bro. You can buy glappid bait and just go ham on standing without need of going trough the "food chain". So whats the issue again?

[auxy]

2 hours ago, ArcKnight9202 said:

I actually just checked and apparently the blueprints still work. I'm not sure if that will be "fixed" or if it is indeed intentional to allow players to keep the blueprints if they like them.

It does say in the patch notes that this is intentional. Veteran players who have the blueprints will be allowed to keep them, or you can sell them for an easy 100K credits each.

[(XBOX)Tornicade]

31 minutes ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

I can't believe these forum people.. "oh we hate grind, especially open worlds duh reduce it" 

When it's reduced:

"Oh god what a mistake revert it"

None of you make sense. Less grind is GOOD. Period.

Leaving the bps would of been a better option..people without rank could buy bait and then later get bp when they had rank

 

[Im_a_fat_boy2]

erm.... isnt it cheaper to craft bait?

takes a little resources for x20 bait

now i have to spend standing to purchase 1 bait?

i need 500 standing to buy ONE glappid bait? so i need 10,000 standing to buy a stack of 20 which i could have easily crafted with abit of resources?

why is this better off? is my understanding wrong?

unfortunately i only have the first few recipes and thus, forever lost the chance to get myself the higher level recipes

this sucks

can we please have the recipes back? DE is soo annoying, constantly taking away things that ppl enjoy / want

Edited April 5, 2019 by Im_a_fat_boy2

[LuckyCharm]

13 minutes ago, Im_a_fat_boy2 said:

erm.... isnt it cheaper to craft bait?

takes a little resources for x20 bait

now i have to spend standing to purchase 1 bait?

i need 500 standing to buy ONE glappid bait? so i need 10,000 standing to buy a stack of 20 which i could have easily crafted with abit of resources?

why is this better off? is my understanding wrong?

unfortunately i only have the first few recipes and thus, forever lost the chance to get myself the higher level recipes

this sucks

can we please have the recipes back? DE is soo annoying, constantly taking away things that ppl enjoy / want

It's better because one glappid gets you more standing than the investment you spent on the bait, so catch one of them while the baits out and every single fish you catch after that while the bait is out is profit.  And no you can't craft them easily with a bit of resources, because each bait needed a bunch of fish parts from the previous baits meaning that if you just want to farm glappids for days on end you can do that now without worrying about running out of the lower fish parts. It's a complete win since it not only nets you more profit, it means you arent using the stockpile of resources you may or may not have had to get the baits so you'll have those parts there to craft whatever else with now that you'd have been saving for bait previously

[SIINN]

So what I don't get is how having both methods hurts anyone. Just leave the recipes for those who want to craft the bait and have the bait purchasable for those who'd rather spend rep. Then you'll see what players prefer.

[Steel_Rook]

3 hours ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

I can't believe these forum people.. "oh we hate grind, especially open worlds duh reduce it" 

When it's reduced:

"Oh god what a mistake revert it"

None of you make sense. Less grind is GOOD. Period.

It's not less grind. It's MORE grind, and by a fair amount. The Ostron grind is predominantly gated by the Daily Standing cap. Purchased fish bait draws from that cap, whereas blueprint fish does not. Fishing used to be a pretty reliable way to earn Ostron standing, as Murkray bait is fairly trivial to make in large quantities and Murkrays themselves trade in for a fairly large Standing reward. This is no longer as lucrative because while it might be fast, it also effectively reduces your Daily Standing cap by the amount of bait you buy. This change is only convenient for people like myself who are already Kin with Ostron and don't actually need further standing with them, but might need specific fish for their parts. For people actually trying to progress through Ostron, however, an easy and reliable progression venue was just discontinued.

[Almagnus1]

3 hours ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

I can't believe these forum people.. "oh we hate grind, especially open worlds duh reduce it" 

When it's reduced:

"Oh god what a mistake revert it"

None of you make sense. Less grind is GOOD. Period.

To be fair, I liked the rest of the update, this change just seemed weird and the grind involved isn't as bad as say, getting Nidus, Equinox, or Harrow.

[Almagnus1]

2 hours ago, LuckyCharm said:

It's better because one glappid gets you more standing than the investment you spent on the bait, so catch one of them while the baits out and every single fish you catch after that while the bait is out is profit.  And no you can't craft them easily with a bit of resources, because each bait needed a bunch of fish parts from the previous baits meaning that if you just want to farm glappids for days on end you can do that now without worrying about running out of the lower fish parts. It's a complete win since it not only nets you more profit, it means you arent using the stockpile of resources you may or may not have had to get the baits so you'll have those parts there to craft whatever else with now that you'd have been saving for bait previously

But why not have both?

[NACN24]

I want the blueprints(baits/ luminous dye) back. This is much more convenient and doesn't require to waste the Ostron Standing to purchase them.

[Test-995]

Actually this is MORE GRIND, cuz u know, u will get less standings per day because of those standing drainer baits.

Both should be exist at the same time. and bait bp should cost same or less as normal bait.

[Warhydra]

I am okay with the change, though they should make rare fish spawn without bait in PoE just as they do in OV.

[Faiyze]

I agree with the "Have both" mentality.

There're people who want the blueprints so they can just go craft it after getting the resources and there're others who're willing to spend thousands of standing (I say thousands because it will stack up) so let them. I personally would rather spend an hour of relaxing fishing and getting enough to make over 100 of each bait that would last me months rather than spend days grinding standing to make as much as I would from just an hour or two of fishing since you're gonna be catching other prerequisite fishes while fishing anyway.

Ofc Thumpers and their fish part drops would come into play but at that point, would it even matter? Now people without the blueprints are just sitting on hundreds of fish parts without any real use for them and it solves the issue of people complaining about having to fish for prerequisite fish for crafting bait. Certain rare fish in the plains need bait to even spawn unlike Orb Vallis where they could just spawn albeit rarely. This makes the bait required on the plains, unlike Orb Vallis where it was completely optional.

It costs 155k standing for 100 of every bait, that's several days worth of standing grind. I can get 100 of every bait in a day from fishing or thumper farming and crafting the bait. I don't understand where the "It's less grindy" mentality comes from for that. Ignoring all other baits solely for Glappid bait, it's still 10k standing for 20 Glappid Bait. Sure, you're gonna make that standing back, but you're also paying a "tax" fee for it due to the daily standing limit, this is especially true for newbies who will have to use standing every day to get a new bait rather than just crafting 1 blueprint of 20 bait that could last them for 20 days if they only use one bait a day. It's not much standing for a few bait, but if you ever, for whatever reason, need more than 20 bait, you threw away 10k standing overall.

This gets even further separated by players who don't already own the recipes that are literally standing locked from players who do own it and can spend 10-30 minutes killing thumpers to craft 20 of all the baits. Killing a Thumper's not even hard and if a newbie needs fish parts, I'd just carry them through a thumper or two and they'll have more parts than they'll ever need. If a person's farming for Standing then why even bother with fishing imo. Just get a friend who's willing to carry you, go run a t4 and t5 bounty, that's over 9k standing, more than anyone below MR 9 will ever need since they're standing limit capped anyway.

Players could literally stop going for any cetus standing because there was almost no reason to if you had the zaws you wanted, now they'll be forced to get standing just to go fishing with bait if they wanted to. Meanwhile I'll just have bait ready without having to have had waste any standing because I own over 200k standing worth of bait which, thankfully, I didn't have to waste standing to get but newer players will. That's how I feel about blueprints over using standing, it just isn't as cost-effective.

Regardless though, I'm not saying that just using standing isn't without merit. It's quicker because it's only 50-500 standing for one bait, so if you only need minimal amounts of bait for whatever reason (such as for nightwaves) then it's a win-win for you. You make back the standing you've used minus whatever you used to get the standing. Not really an issue for higher MR's since our standing limit's high enough where we won't care, but for lower mr, it can make all the difference between getting an amp that day vs getting it the next day. It doesn't require prerequisite fish unlike the blueprint, but again, that's easily offset by Thumpers. It makes Cetus standing worth something again for people who already own the zaws and amps they want.

To me personally, I don't care what they do with the system because either way, it won't effect me and most veterans because we don't really care about fishing anymore anyway and standing can be made from just doing the bounties which are easy for us. But to people that don't have the time to grind out standing just so they can go fishing for more standing or for newbies who're standing limit locked, this system hurts them.

Meanwhile, all of the above issues could simply be solved by having both blueprints and single standing bait as it appeals to both groups and there isn't really even a negative besides I guess fish plat price dropping which is already happening anyway with bait being obtained from standing and thumpers dropping fish parts. Below is what I got from 3 thumpers in 10 minutes at the plains with my daily 8 hour resource booster login reward.

.

[DebrisFlow]

DE conducted a survey on the appreciation of fishing/mining/k-drive in the two open landscapes. It was on voluntary basis, through a link on the forums. If they changed the bait system from resource-based to standings-based i think is because of the general feedback from that survey. I assume that the majority of who answered preferred a progression based on playing the core warframe game (jumping and killing , bounties) rather than a progression based on farmville activities.

Keeping both systems would had solved this appreciation problem, giving the choice to players, but i guess people would had also complained about one system being unbalanced compared to the other ("why the system that i don't like is more efficient? bla bla bla"). What we have now is kind of a half-way solution: you grind some resources from farmville, unlock others from playing the real game.