Discord, Chat, GOTL and more - updates & conclusions!

[ArcticHelix]

Finally an official discord!

[Nomicakes]

This reads as one of the most condescending posts you've ever written, Rebecca.

[peterc3]

17 minutes ago, Nomicakes said:

This reads as one of the most condescending posts you've ever written, Rebecca.

Given the players forced their hand, I think the condescension is deserved.

The players wanted attention, so they got it.

[Lord-Taco-the-Great]

50 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Given the players forced their hand, I think the condescension is deserved.

The players wanted attention, so they got it.

They didn't force their hand, DE could have easily kept the guides (it wouldn't have been a good decision, but they could have). Even Reb in this exact thread said it was a good thing for the community that its gone.

[notlamprey]

1 hour ago, peterc3 said:

Given the players forced their hand

Interesting perspective you have there.

How many times has DE stated that all of this is completely within their sole control and at their sole discretion? Are you saying they lied or were wrong? Maybe your little unintentional joke is just that: a joke.

You're conveniently leaving out any mention of why players would have been unhappy in the first place. If their hand was forced, as you say, perhaps that was because the evidence of need for change was undeniable? Please. Please.

They're grown people and they don't need anyone to defend them, certainly not in the manner you're attempting to. They can (and should) do so much better, surely. I understand that an inveterate down-talker and practitioner of condescension would want to espouse the virtues of their avocation, but you're just making DE look bad by association. Stop it.

[peterc3]

5 minutes ago, notlamprey said:

Interesting perspective you have there.

How many times has DE stated that all of this is completely within their sole control and at their sole discretion? Are you saying they lied or were wrong? Maybe your little unintentional joke is just that: a joke.

You're conveniently leaving out any mention of why players would have been unhappy in the first place. If their hand was forced, as you say, perhaps that was because the evidence of need for change was undeniable? Please. Please.

They're grown people and they don't need anyone to defend them, certainly not in the manner you're attempting to. They can (and should) do so much better, surely. I understand that an inveterate down-talker and practitioner of condescension would want to espouse the virtues of their avocation, but you're just making DE look bad by association. Stop it.

I don't work for them or speak for them. I do, however, think this entire thing is ridiculous. The evidence for change was whispers and rumor that someone did something bad to someone else and therefore we all should tell DE that they did bad things. Then there's the fun times where people just made stories up and when it came out the stories were complete BS the response got a fraction of the attention the original story got.

We want more transparency, oh wait this much transparency is too much. DE acts like the whole uncaring corporate stereotype, oh wait this is too real.

Get over yourself.

[Lord-Taco-the-Great]

1 hour ago, peterc3 said:

I don't work for them or speak for them. I do, however, think this entire thing is ridiculous. The evidence for change was whispers and rumor that someone did something bad to someone else and therefore we all should tell DE that they did bad things. Then there's the fun times where people just made stories up and when it came out the stories were complete BS the response got a fraction of the attention the original story got.

We want more transparency, oh wait this much transparency is too much. DE acts like the whole uncaring corporate stereotype, oh wait this is too real.

Get over yourself.

Lmao what? The evidence for change wasn't just whispers and rumors, it was documented. And again, DE could have easily kept the guides if they wanted to, but guess what? They got rid of them, and they (DE) themselves say it was a good decision. 

[SasoDuck]

I'm a little confused
How exactly will this new system work? Like a button on your in-game profile to give someone a +1? or what?

[smokednin]

I've never once seen or heard of a GOTL outside of people (mostly on Reddit) complaining about them, so while it won't affect the game for me at all, I guess I'm glad it's going away? Kind of a strange situation.

I sorta have to wonder how it was that such a large number of people not only encountered them, but had such severely negative encounters to warrant this sort of insanity in the first place. Something about the whole thing just doesn't add up to me, but less drama is always nice (though some people will surely be disappointed as they live for that sort of thing).

[(PSN)Superlyned]

Well from what i see. The new system is not looking any better. 

 

GOTL was a much better thing but u wanted to stop it ?

 

Well sry but It's better if u think about it more.

 

But i can't really say anything for now. I hold my word till we know more but that is my opinion for now :)

 

[JollyNova]

I know some lovely people who were guides and always went the extra mile to help people. I am sad the program has ended but hopeful the new system will be excellent. To all the guides who genuinely loved helping and care for the community, I appreciate everything you’ve done behind closed doors to make warframe a better place. Guides have made my experience better and they’re lovely people. Yes indeed there may have been a small percentage of people that shouldn’t have been one, but that shouldn’t mean that the whole group was judged for the actions of the handful. 

I don’t feel anything condescending in this announcement, ‘‘tis just facts. 

[JollyNova]

And for those of you asking for guide armor to be handed to you... shame on you. It is beautiful, and unique. It’s for the guides who have helped the community and been available for those needing a hand. Let them have this to remember the program and Rest In Peace. They earned it, you didn’t. To many players that armor was viewed as a status thing, and that’s not what it was for. It was intended to make guides more physically visible in game to players. Let them have it. It’s theirs. 

[megamino]

First of all, I know the Guide of the Lotus exists but i chose not to interact with it, just because i am satisfied with wiki (and so some of the players itself) for me having guide of the lotus is OK but for me, it will become useless when

1. Your only engagement for GOTL program is through relay first time prompt

2. The GOTL itself didn't brought into the game, the user need to go to forum or website to see the guide itself

All about game related should be prompt into the game, especially when new player comes and don't know what to do.

P.S. for me clan also can be the extension of GOTL program itself.

[(XBOX)Furious Kaiser]

I (until recently) was a Senior Guide of the Lotus and I want to tell a story.

Lets go back, to when Warframe first came to the Xbox. I started playing shortly after it launched. I had never heard of the game, but was curious, and it was free. A month later, I stopped it to play Destiny with some friends. A month after that, I dropped Destiny for good and went and gave Warframe another shot. I remember what got me really hooked was finally building my Dual Zorens and hatching my first kubrow. After finally making the decision to stick it out for the long run, I ran into some kind folks who had a very small clan and were much, much further along then I was at the time. I didn't play with them too much as they stuck to themselves mostly, but whenever I had questions, they had answers. The leader gave me my first primes, Rhino Prime and Orthos Prime, after I had sputtered through my first bunch of mastery ranks. Now I am one of those guys who has a hard time accepting help and charity. I made it my goal to farm up a Rhino Prime and Orthos Prime to repay the guy. He said I didn't have to, but I still carried on. During this process, I ran into the first few guys (and gal) that, after playing many hours with as they were around my level, I would clan up with. I told the new clan leader that I had a mission I must complete before I would join them. A few weeks later, and after more intense farming and trading for plat, I had the talk with my first clan leader. He was totally cool with me leaving as their clan was super small, and they were a close-knit group, and I had found friends around my level to play with. He was really surprised when I told him to take the Rhino and Orthos prime and he couldn't say no, and I didn't care if he sold it or gave it away.

Time passes, I am with my friends, farming void missions for prime, we lose some friends, but we make more. I rose through the ranks quickly to a officer position. We had a good run, but my second clan got hit by a case of burnout, the leader left Warframe for good. Some of my friends had other friends in another clan that was snapping up some of our core members as they left. I held out for as long as I could, hoping the leader would come back. There was just some things in the clan that we couldn't do without the leader (clan dojo stuff, rank restructuring, etc). I eventually left after much consideration and got picked up by the clan that all my friends had moved to, the same clan I am still in today.

It was in this clan were we started helping out a lot of the new players. We picked up a few new people along the way and trained them up with a heavy emphasis on instructing and guiding, with minimal, if any, hand holding or carrying. Everyone pulled their weight in missions. Again, I rose through the ranks to an officer position, and eventually became a Co-leader (with in game clan leader powers) once the leader bowed out for a spell. It was around this time that one of my closest friends got the idea of the two of us becoming Guides of the Lotus. I had not heard of the Guides before that day. He explained it as a way for us to help out even more people. We both applied, I got it, he did not (never found out why, I even coached his application a little). 

I started out helping full throttle. I would spend hours in region chat answering quick questions in public, or taking folks into DMs for more drawn out explanations. I have little to no social media presence, and had never used Discord before this, so my scope was in-game chats and, eventually, the forums. I maintained my philosophy of guiding and instructing, never speed running a mission for someone or straight up handing out freebies. People have to learn, right? After every major update I would scan the wiki about what was new, like the raids, relic system, PoE, etc. (Thanks PC folks for crash testing content for us!) I would use that knowledge to help people understand what they were supposed to do to move forward. Whenever someone would ask if I wanted anything in return, my response was always pay it forward. Even on the extremely rare occurrence when I would drop a rare mod or frame part in someones lap (after I had noticed they had worked hard for little to no reward) i declined any form of payment, instead telling them to pay it forward. Holidays were fun for us. We would run event content over and over, helping out people, showing them how to do some of the unique stuff (Halloween) or pushing ourselves to our limit (one year when we had a 60min survival event). For Christmas I would gather a few people to go purchase a resource drop chance (blue) booster, deck out a Nekros and/or pet with red, green, and white, then que up for public random matches on low level planets. Goal was not to speed run the mission for the newer people, but to sit and chat and let Nekros's Desecrate work with the booster for more resource and credit drops.

Years pass. I start to notice a trend within the overall community. More an more people in the chats were answering questions quickly and accurately. Some days I would find the player-helping-player section of the forums with barely any unanswered questions I could take care of myself. I slipped into the shadows more, observing the interactions happening, only really stepping up when someone is left too long without an answer or explanation, and even then only in private messages, or by voice on the rare occasion. Hardly anybody knew me as a Guide. And I was fine with that.

If you have made it this far, thank you for taking the time to read this. Now I will get into something a bit more contentious: my opinions on certain matters. I came back from a little hiatus about a year ago (dealing with unimportant life stuff) to hear talks of drama within the ranks of the Guides and Partners. I listened to a lot of it, from the shadows. I was never a part of the drama, and never spoke up in public about it. I figured it will get taken care of from higher up, which it did. I am not saying I just hand waved it by. A lot of what went on was downright horrendous and despicable. I listened to the criticisms about the program. I offered feedback, along with others, where I knew it was needed. The reality of the situation didn't really hit home until I got called out one day for being a Guide, and called a piece of trash. I asked the person (privately) what they thought of the Guides, keeping civil. His response was nothing but cuss words and other fun stuff. I am not trying to demean the person, they literally would not sit and have a conversation with me about it. This interaction, however, got me thinking, and I starting taking closer looks at a lot of the criticism that was going around. One line of questioning stuck in my brain: What does the title "Guide of the Lotus" mean today? That we help people? Does it take a title to help people? This was asked (somewhat) by a youtuber, a known Vauban aficionado, who wasn't afraid to ask the hard questions in a respectful enough manner. For me, I helped people not because I was a Guide, but because I wanted to. This mentality is the same among the rest of the Guides, and as I see it today, among a good portion of the community as well. Ya, we have had a few S#&$heads amongst us, but they were dealt with. They do not represent us as a whole. DE has publicly admitted they could have handled some situations better, and they have promised to make changes for the better of all. They are now up on a pedestal as being some pretty good developers and they know they have to manage the beast known as public perception that comes with that. They are striving to make good changes based on feedback and much deliberation. The news of a DE-run public Discord will be another fantastic tool for people to get quick answers to questions they may have from fellow players. I believe the new program that is in the talks right now as a step from the GoTL program is a step in the right direction for showing much deserving recognition for anyone who helps their fellow Tenno out a bunch. Will there be bugs and growing pains with the new system? Probably. It will be up to us as players to submit respectful feedback if anything needs to change. The way I see it, we don't need a program that rewards people for being decent. Will it be a nice thing to have? Hell yes it will. Is it necessary? Nope. If it becomes a system of disgusting abuse by the community, I would not bat an eye if DE scraps the whole idea. It will be on us, the community, to make it a success. Just as we make this game a success.

As a final note, many former guides, myself included, have vowed to keep doing what we do normally. For us, nothing is really changing in how we do things. We will still be friends. We will still talk and game as always. We will still help out those that need it. We will still step up. We will still encourage others to do the same. And again, thank you for your time.

[Klypto]

The official discord has no chat channels yet, what is the purpose?

Should make the bot open source on github for the community to add community features.

[Leafcoin]

On 2019-04-05 at 11:12 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Establish a DE-lead News & Events Discord. Who knows, maybe [DE]Steve will grace us with some Beauty and Body art Tips.
 

This is the only thing I'm interested in, to be honest.

[Demeraire]

Dear DE I will be honest to say that out of the many hours I've played this game I have not encountered a guide of the lotus and I have generally stayed away from the region chat because there are usually just chats that I don't feel appealing to but.

I would like to ask you guys please please take note that nothing visually cosmetic should be tied to this commend system other than a mere small badge just like how Dota 2 has a commend system, otherwise it would just a repeat of the GoTL system.

On 2019-04-05 at 11:12 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Taking its place will be a new system - we learned so much from working with volunteers over 4 years. Creating a system where helping a noob, having good advice, or being a kick-ass Frost can be acknowledged by your fellow Tenno is a path we want to go down. We will have an endorsements feature that allows players to acknowledge fellow Tenno for their honor and actions in-game. Stay tuned for more, it's early days still!

[Ducdashot]

On 2019-04-05 at 4:12 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

There's a handful of readers out there who will confuse a program's retirement and replacement with a player-driven system as a mob-justice victory. For these people, facts - such as retirement conversations internally predating any witch-hunts - do not matter.

Listen DE, I am going to be polite as possible here.

first of all the changes to be implemented seem great, we are glad you are listening to the community. I'm sure you've had something in the works from a while ago, hell maybe even a year ago who knows (because you don't tell us but i digress) but this response "There's a handful of readers out there who will confuse a program's retirement and replacement with a player-driven system as a mob-justice victory. For these people, facts - such as retirement conversations internally predating any witch-hunts - do not matter." I do not think this will have the effect you desire, this statement comes off as spiteful, aggressive and will only further the divide amongst players that has started to form. STOP! Stop with the emotional language, stop with the whole "this is a witch hunt, personal attacks" etc. If it was all unsubstantiated then why are you making changes based on those complaints? See already I nearly went off on a mini rant and i'm sure others will want to too. That type of emotional and almost spiteful/ aggressive response wasn't needed and will only make the situation worse by instigating more emotional responses from players. Please think before you do stuff like that. We love the game and don't want to see the community split over something dumb like the moderation situation.

I hope this all ends up as something we can all look back on and laugh about it.

[Same]

What in the world is the point of the discord server that DE has made if you can't talk in it? Is this just a emoji server? Everything just links back to the forums. The bug bounties thing is just making users test the game for them. I guess DE doesn't actually have beta testers anymore?

Adding - Some players are already afraid to test bugs in case that they get banned.

[Shinobu_Scorpion]

1 hour ago, Same said:

What in the world is the point of the discord server that DE has made if you can't talk in it? Is this just a emoji server? Everything just links back to the forums. The bug bounties thing is just making users test the game for them. I guess DE doesn't actually have beta testers anymore?

Adding - Some players are already afraid to test bugs in case that they get banned.

"There are no regular open chat channels yet for soft-launching."

[Same]

3 minutes ago, Shinobu_Scorpion said:

"There are no regular open chat channels yet for soft-launching."

Yes, I can't help but worry that there won't be any sort of regular chat channels, and that it will be event only.

I fully had intended to try and make some new friends in the official warframe discord server.

[Kuwagata]

Here for more good changes in the future ❤️

[RielZero]

Nicely done! Finally a step in the right direction.

But I would've liked that you drop your victim narrative, we don't need reasons why it came this far, but a sign that you know something went wrong and want to mend and improve the community, which I think this post is.

Love ya DE.

[(NSW)Ignacio93]

This sounds great

By the way, when i joined the playwarframe server, i couldn't type anything, is there a way to get verified to talk there?

Also really great to hear this changes, wanted to join the guide of the lotus, but didn't joined on time to the game

[(XBOX)Furious Kaiser]

They are still getting the official discord server up and running. Plus it is the weekend, expect more updates Monday. They still need to get bots, permissions, and channels in order before the open up any chats to the public.