What have you done to the Tysis?

[DoomFruit]

So I tried out the changed Tysis.

What the hell have you done to it, DE? I took my old build (dual stat for viral, primed heated charge + electric on a riven for radiation), pumped two and a half magazines into a L50 corrupted heavy gunner - that's 27 shots - and didn't get a single corrosive proc? Slash procs? Check (it's all about that beautiful 30 damage per tick... so very useful). Puncture procs? Yep. Impact procs? WTF.

The sole purpose of the Tysis was to very reliably inflict elemental procs on enemies. It was never a pure damage weapon (though the rapid proc stacking and full acid/rad/viral elemental spread could certainly put the pain on most things)... and now by polluting the proc pool with physical damage, it has nothing to recommend it at all.

Who asked for this change? It wasn't exactly a popular weapon before (riven disposition 1.51 according to the wiki), and yet somehow you saw fit to make it even worse?

[(PSN)Mordecai_Vrykul]

why are you trying to hit a corrupted heavy gunner with anything other than corrosive?

[SneakyErvin]

Why not just ditch radiation and viral and go for a 100% status build centered around corrosive+slash? You had a fairly polluted weapon to begin with since you knocked down your corrosive proc chance by a large margin stacking both viral and rad on it. Radiation is already a bad proc and Viral gets kinda redundant when it procs way more often than it has duration.

Get a riven with negative puncture and you should have a pretty good stat weight for reliable corrosive and slash procs.

Riven + 60/60 electric + 60/60 toxin + 90% electric + 90% toxin + MS1 + MS2 + damage.

[Robolaser]

il y a une heure, DoomFruit a dit :

and didn't get a single corrosive proc?

For some reason currently if you use just corrosive + punchthrough, only the first tick of the 3 inate procs-over-time is applied (including possible ips from procs 2 and 3).

What's worse, if you use base corrosive + another element + punchthrough, corrosive procs and all the inate procs-over-time are TOTALLY disabled.

If you use only corrosive without punchthrough, or corrosive + another element without punchthrough, it seems to work correctly.

I'm not 100% sure about how these bugs happen, it might require better/more testing but something's wrong indeed.

 

il y a 58 minutes, (PS4)Mordecai_Vrykul a dit :

why are you trying to hit a corrupted heavy gunner with anything other than corrosive?

Because when it works correctly (no punch through bug), a few shots are enough to completely remove a 130 corrupted bombard's armor. At higher levels, you will need another element to deal optimally with large amounts of remainig health. Slash DoT helps but is a bit weak and slow imo, especially without viral.

 

il y a 34 minutes, SneakyErvin a dit :

Get a riven with negative puncture and you should have a pretty good stat weight for reliable corrosive and slash procs.

Riven + 60/60 electric + 60/60 toxin + 90% electric + 90% toxin + MS1 + MS2 + damage. 

No, please no. Tysis was totally fine before these changes. Now it's just another generic ips gun. I don't want to be forced to buy a very specific riven in order to partly get my old Tysis back (also i would probably prefer a -impact instead of -puncture, reasons below).

-------------------------

 

Something i really dislike about the new Tysis, is the impact procs. With 100% proc chance it happens way too often. Before the changes, the almost perfect accuracy allowed precise headshots, once used to the travel time. Now, unloading a few shots in quick succession while aiming for the head results in half of the shots missing after impact proc. Very annoying 😞

I would suggest to greatly lower impact or even remove it completely. And please fix the punchthrough bug!

Edited April 5, 2019 by Robolaser

[DoomFruit]

48 minutes ago, (PS4)Mordecai_Vrykul said:

why are you trying to hit a corrupted heavy gunner with anything other than corrosive?

L50 corrupted gunner is the standard thing I have loaded in the simulacrum for testing out new (and not so new) weapons. Yes, I'd want corrosive just for that gunner... but I'd want radiation for all the other enemies next to that gunner, and viral for when that gunner is L120. I'd also want radiation for that bombard standing next to the gunner, or that healer ancient standing behind both of them. That one enemy won't appear on its own, and the old omniproc tysis could handle anything.

The tysis is not a direct damage weapon, it's a disruptive assist weapon. Build it right, and you'd kill the enemy by massively crippling them - removing all their armour, halving all their HP and getting all their friends to shoot at them (or the ones behind them, if you stick on the mandatory punchthrough mod).

24 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Why not just ditch radiation and viral and go for a 100% status build centered around corrosive+slash? You had a fairly polluted weapon to begin with since you knocked down your corrosive proc chance by a large margin stacking both viral and rad on it. Radiation is already a bad proc and Viral gets kinda redundant when it procs way more often than it has duration.

Get a riven with negative puncture and you should have a pretty good stat weight for reliable corrosive and slash procs.

Riven + 60/60 electric + 60/60 toxin + 90% electric + 90% toxin + MS1 + MS2 + damage.

I don't want slash procs. I want 3x useful dual elemental procs, like I used to have. I can get slash + corrosion procs from a zillion other weapons in this game. I can't get simultaneous corrosion, radiation and viral from anything else.

While you might not like radiation procs, I do. There's a reason why I explicitly built it that way. They are incredibly useful when you're facing more than one enemy, as it's free CC for every single frame that doesn't get removed by nullicancer. I don't mind viral procs overlapping that much, because if they run out then the enemy just gets all their HP back. The old setup was absolutely fine for me.

I liked the weapon as it was. It was unique and it had its own niche. Now that it's been infected with physical damage and changed to some weird tick-based damage process, it has lost that niche entirely and become yet another mastery fodder weapon not worthy of consideration.

[SneakyErvin]

8 minutes ago, DoomFruit said:

L50 corrupted gunner is the standard thing I have loaded in the simulacrum for testing out new (and not so new) weapons. Yes, I'd want corrosive just for that gunner... but I'd want radiation for all the other enemies next to that gunner, and viral for when that gunner is L120. I'd also want radiation for that bombard standing next to the gunner, or that healer ancient standing behind both of them. That one enemy won't appear on its own, and the old omniproc tysis could handle anything.

The tysis is not a direct damage weapon, it's a disruptive assist weapon. Build it right, and you'd kill the enemy by massively crippling them - removing all their armour, halving all their HP and getting all their friends to shoot at them (or the ones behind them, if you stick on the mandatory punchthrough mod).

I don't want slash procs. I want 3x useful dual elemental procs, like I used to have. I can get slash + corrosion procs from a zillion other weapons in this game. I can't get simultaneous corrosion, radiation and viral from anything else.

While you might not like radiation procs, I do. There's a reason why I explicitly built it that way. They are incredibly useful when you're facing more than one enemy, as it's free CC for every single frame that doesn't get removed by nullicancer. I don't mind viral procs overlapping that much, because if they run out then the enemy just gets all their HP back. The old setup was absolutely fine for me.

I liked the weapon as it was. It was unique and it had its own niche. Now that it's been infected with physical damage and changed to some weird tick-based damage process, it has lost that niche entirely and become yet another mastery fodder weapon not worthy of consideration.

But it is a far far better corrosive stacker now since each tick has an individual chance of proccing the status.

I'm quite surprised how you can claim you didnt see a single corrosive proc. Because if built right i.e with 100% status you should have 3 corrosive procs per shot, one per each tick. In reality you shouldnt even have to mod for corrosive anymore since the DoT will always proc it. Add multishot to that and it strips them even faster.

[DoomFruit]

1 minute ago, SneakyErvin said:

But it is a far far better corrosive stacker now since each tick has an individual chance of proccing the status.

I'm quite surprised how you can claim you didnt see a single corrosive proc. Because if built right i.e with 100% status you should have 3 corrosive procs per shot, one per each tick. In reality you shouldnt even have to mod for corrosive anymore since the DoT will always proc it. Add multishot to that and it strips them even faster.

I emptied 2.5 clips into this gunner, not a single acid proc (as measured by looking at the list of symbols under the enemy name). It's kinda hard to miss. It's the same build as before: hornet strike, barrel diffusion, lethal torrent, seeker, dual stat cold + toxin, riven with (+status duration, +projectile velocity, +electric; +recoil), primed heated charge. 100% status before any multishot.

[SneakyErvin]

2 hours ago, DoomFruit said:

I emptied 2.5 clips into this gunner, not a single acid proc (as measured by looking at the list of symbols under the enemy name). It's kinda hard to miss. It's the same build as before: hornet strike, barrel diffusion, lethal torrent, seeker, dual stat cold + toxin, riven with (+status duration, +projectile velocity, +electric; +recoil), primed heated charge. 100% status before any multishot.

The gun must be bugged, or sim is bugged.

[Robolaser]

Il y a 4 heures, DoomFruit a dit :

seeker

 

Il y a 2 heures, SneakyErvin a dit :

The gun must be bugged, or sim is bugged.

 

As i explained above, punchthrough is the culprit and yes it's probably a bug. I doubt it will ever get fixed though.

[Bluemillion]

They've reverted the changes to Ogris, so maybe there's hope for Tysis fans. I got a little excited when I realized a lot of the damage decrease was due to a punchthrough bug, but Doom is right that it shouldn't be another generic IPS weapon. It's got a very specific role as a pure elemental status monster.

[000l000]

Il y a 13 heures, DoomFruit a dit :

L50 corrupted gunner is the standard thing I have loaded in the simulacrum for testing out new (and not so new) weapons. Yes, I'd want corrosive just for that gunner... but I'd want radiation for all the other enemies next to that gunner, and viral for when that gunner is L120.

It makes no sense cause radiation only purpose is to deal huge damages to armored enemies. Along with corrosive it's counterproductive, especially since the new Tysis is way better at stripping armor than dealing raw damages (no critical).

Viral is indeed really effective to deal with unarmored enemies (especially Grineers once corrosive has stripped their armors) but once again it'll impair your corrosive procs and there's no benefit from cumulating it. Since this new version is dealing a lot of procs, maybe using gaz, poison or even slash would be more relevant then.

Tbh i rarely use viral on full status weapons that are lacking of dots, it's a waste of a proc. It does work really fine on critical weapons though.

Tysis works like a Pox now, full corrosive or full gaz. No weapon can beat this ones when it comes to strip armor or apply dozen of procs in a sec.

Edited April 6, 2019 by 000l000

[DoomFruit]

2 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

It makes no sense cause radiation only purpose is to deal huge damages to armored enemies. Along with corrosive it's counterproductive, especially since the new Tysis is way better at stripping armor than dealing raw damages (no critical).

Viral is indeed really effective to deal with unarmored enemies (especially Grineers once corrosive has stripped their armors) but once again it'll impair your corrosive procs and there's no benefit from cumulating it. Since this new version is dealing a lot of procs, maybe using gaz, poison or even slash would be more relevant then.

Tbh i rarely use viral on full status weapons that are lacking of dots, it's a waste of a proc. It does work really fine on critical weapons though.

Tysis works like a Pox now, full corrosive or full gaz. No weapon can beat this ones when it comes to strip armor or apply dozen of procs in a sec.

We already had a weapon like the Pox: it was called the Pox. If I wanted a proc machinegun with lots of slash, I'd take the Braton Prime or Astilla.

If I wanted something to deal corrosive, radiation and viral all at once, it would have been the Tysis. Radiation has a purpose: to get the enemies to stop shooting at me and to start shooting each other. Again: I like rad procs. I want them (on ranged weapons, melee just gets you shot at more when the enemies now have 2 targets instead of 1). This was the purpose of the Tysis: 3x dual elements, all with guaranteed procs and not a single physical proc. While some other weapons had native dual element damage and high proc chance, native corrosion is the only one which lets me get radiation + viral on at the same time to get the holy trinity of debilitating procs.

I could target one enemy (or an entire line of them, I can't use a weapon without punchthrough any more), fire a few shots at them and they would promptly be killed by their friends because a) they have very little or no armour, b) they have half health and c) they now glow in the dark.

It was useful to get the enemies off my back. It's what I used to slay level 100 monsters in the Void years ago back when we still had void keys and you'd milk a single T4 survival key for as much as you could get out of it. Or if I didn't kill them with repeated tysis spam, them being much weaker allowed my squadmates to kill them with ease.

And yes, stacking multiple viral procs has no effect (except to make it last longer), but I'd still take it over not having viral procs. With 180% multishot from both mods and the tysis' decent rate of fire, you'd still destroy most of their armour in pretty short order and I much prefer my enemies to have half health.

[hammerheathen]

Radiation also gets rid of the rather annoying Healer aura. Just saying, very much not useless

[000l000]

Il y a 10 heures, DoomFruit a dit :

And yes, stacking multiple viral procs has no effect (except to make it last longer), but I'd still take it over not having viral procs. With 180% multishot from both mods and the tysis' decent rate of fire, you'd still destroy most of their armour in pretty short order and I much prefer my enemies to have half health.

I've tested a lot of combinations and tbh i'd prefer a corrosive/frost build for the convenient part (ice glow, slowed so even better than radiation in my opinion) - radiation or viral will deal too much damage to allow corrosive procs to strip armor efficiently, frost makes this issue less painful. 

Now viral is a choice you make i wouldn't make because as long as the enemy still has armor, your viral damages won't do a thing. Half health is always useful but you'll strip armor way slower, it'll be awfully random too. Reliability may be important to some players, especially against high level enemies.

I get your point though and this new version relies upon lower damages so radiation won't help much. But maybe it's time to test other kind of builds, maybe corrosive/gaz/frost. Complaining is legit but if the Tysis isn't likely to be reverted it'll be more constructive to adapt than telling the old version was godly and the new sucks - which is wrong since this gun has never been a hidden gem, it's no synapse and no one was using it for obvious reasons. 😴

[DoomFruit]

1 hour ago, 000l000 said:

I get your point though and this new version relies upon lower damages so radiation won't help much. But maybe it's time to test other kind of builds, maybe corrosive/gaz/frost. Complaining is legit but if the Tysis isn't likely to be reverted it'll be more constructive to adapt than telling the old version was godly and the new sucks - which is wrong since this gun has never been a hidden gem, it's no synapse and no one was using it for obvious reasons. 😴

I already run acid/gas/cold on my Zakti, which has the added advantage of radial status procs. Again, I love radiation procs. It's the perfect counter to infested ancient auras and I have always loved monster infighting. The fact that it deals extra damage to bombards while they're still armoured is just icing on the cake. If it takes longer to strip armour, then so be it. I can wait a little longer, and Chenobyl-flavoured fratricide makes this a lot more survivable.

The thing about the old tysis is that while it didn't do one thing incredibly well, it had the full spread of debilitating procs and because of its damage spread, it could reliably hurt pretty much everything that mattered (all grineer and corpus infantry from viral, all corpus robots from radiation, heavy infested from corrosion).

No, it wasn't a damage monster. But we've already got plenty of those. It had its one very specific niche which no other gun held - a very high status chance and being able to inflict simultaneous acid, viral and radiation procs, all at a decent rate. Now that proc chance is gone. My way of "adapting" to this is to just throw it away entirely (in fact, even though it's still listed as my most used weapon, I haven't really pulled it out since Shadow Stalker became a thing and the game suddenly demanded that I carry a complete mix of physical damage types at all times for some stupid arbitrary reason). If it's either impossible to get all 3 procs, or I have to sacrifice punchthrough to get back the functionality that I used to have, the gun's not worth anything to me any more.

[(XBOX)MthsnTwoCharlie]

On 2019-04-06 at 11:28 AM, DoomFruit said:

I already run acid/gas/cold on my Zakti, which has the added advantage of radial status procs. Again, I love radiation procs. It's the perfect counter to infested ancient auras and I have always loved monster infighting. The fact that it deals extra damage to bombards while they're still armoured is just icing on the cake. If it takes longer to strip armour, then so be it. I can wait a little longer, and Chenobyl-flavoured fratricide makes this a lot more survivable.

The thing about the old tysis is that while it didn't do one thing incredibly well, it had the full spread of debilitating procs and because of its damage spread, it could reliably hurt pretty much everything that mattered (all grineer and corpus infantry from viral, all corpus robots from radiation, heavy infested from corrosion).

No, it wasn't a damage monster. But we've already got plenty of those. It had its one very specific niche which no other gun held - a very high status chance and being able to inflict simultaneous acid, viral and radiation procs, all at a decent rate. Now that proc chance is gone. My way of "adapting" to this is to just throw it away entirely (in fact, even though it's still listed as my most used weapon, I haven't really pulled it out since Shadow Stalker became a thing and the game suddenly demanded that I carry a complete mix of physical damage types at all times for some stupid arbitrary reason). If it's either impossible to get all 3 procs, or I have to sacrifice punchthrough to get back the functionality that I used to have, the gun's not worth anything to me any more.

Sounds like you're looking for a Scourge.

[DoomFruit]

7 hours ago, (XB1)MthsnTwoCharlie said:

Sounds like you're looking for a Scourge.

That is a possible alternative, but it means losing the enormous damage of my primary (Corinth or Sanctigris). However, there's a much larger problem: punchthrough doesn't work on it, so it's useless to me.

[Bluemillion]

Yeah,

8 hours ago, DoomFruit said:

That is a possible alternative, but it means losing the enormous damage of my primary (Corinth or Sanctigris). However, there's a much larger problem: punchthrough doesn't work on it, so it's useless to me.

Yeah, the lack of punchthrough is really terrible. It was so fun to just fire this thing through a bunch of enemies and see the gas procs do their thing.

[(XBOX)MthsnTwoCharlie]

13 hours ago, DoomFruit said:

That is a possible alternative, but it means losing the enormous damage of my primary (Corinth or Sanctigris). However, there's a much larger problem: punchthrough doesn't work on it, so it's useless to me.

Huh.  Just built/levelled/stored the Scourge a few days ago, but holy poop you're right, AoE but no punch through.  I guess you could sub Firestorm for that amazing extra ONE METER of AoE, but mmmeeeeeeeehhh no, never mind.

 

Anyhoo, sorry about your Tysis and good luck in your hunt for alternatives.

Edit:. I just took my 100% C/R/V Scourge into Elite Sanctuary Onslaught with a Max range Saryn and it was pretty devastating.  If you were super invested in the Tysis, give this a shot.  Pair it with a strong secondary and melee, obviously. I liked it.

Consistent, full-auto application of all 3 statuses and lots of goodness in crowds when I chucked it at their feet with the alt fire.

 

Edited April 12, 2019 by (XB1)MthsnTwoCharlie
New info added