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Devstream 126 Overview

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Irony, removing blink and Iztals speed because it is used too much. Instead of creating ways to fast travel on an open world

Introduce Wisp that has a teleport ability

Ignoring, Nezha, Nova, Ash, Loki and Void dash as other methods of teleport.

Hypocrisy, not including that bit about itzal in the Overview

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If the thing about nerfing Itzal's speed was serious. Brozime said it the best in his breakdown video. everyone use operator dash to get around open world since it's faster. Unless you nerf everything to have k-drives be the same speed it'll just make people mad. 

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Was excited to see wisp, but after seeing her kit, I'm a bit dissapointed. Considering her idle animations and the way she just floats about, I was expecting a more ghost-y/spirit of the forest-y kind of abilities tbh.

Also, it's kinda ironic that you guys talked about how Vauban can't keep with the game's pace because his abilities are immobile and yet give wisp immobile buff dispensers. I realize that what was shown were WIPs and I sincerely hope you guys take a second look at wisp's kit because so far, she's falling into the same boat as revenant. 

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I hope DE doesnt take this too personally, but Scott has no knowledge on the game he works on. Thats kinda been obvious from the times he's gotten backlash for nerfing something. Itzal is prized for its speed in open world over the others, because thats literally all Archwing is used for in these open worlds. There is no other incentive to use them outside of transportation. No need to use abilities for combat, because the frames are there to do that. Nobody wants to waste time on horrendously boring bounties moving 2000m between objectives. Its like DE forgot that outside of open world, Archwing missions exist, where Itzal isnt really used, except for farming Alu during Razorback Armada. Every other Archwing is far superior to Itzal in every other situation. Amesha, the healing support Archwing, is far more viable in combat situations then Itzal. But in open world where they are solely used for transportation, and nothing else, Itzal is top choice. And even then, its not like people are forced to use Itzal anyway. It would be like nerfing Volt because of his Speed, Zephyr because of Tail Wind, or Nova because of her Wormhole, because they can cover farther distance faster then the other frames. Thats stupid-incarnate, and someone with common sense should know that Itzal having extra mobility is completely fine. Balance doesnt exist in this game to begin with, but how low have people fallen that they will go as far as complaining about the speed of an Archwing being better then the others, and a dev having that same mind set is just sad. Maybe make the boost all archwings have actually boost at a much higher speed then what we have atm. Its not Itzal's fault. Its the open world's fault for being so boring and tedious, that people want to rush it as fast as possible. When Railjack drops, Amesha and Odonata Prime will be used far more then Itzal because those Archwings are designed for battle, not travelling. I'm sure even Elytron will be used more during Railjack. But in terms of travelling open world, Itzal is used because thats what its good for, and that isnt a bad thing

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On 2019-04-06 at 1:56 AM, Aenris said:

I... wow. I'm really disappointed with Wisp. Her theme is all over the place. 

With her name, movements and design i was expecting a "ghostly" or "Spirit" warframe. Not necessarily something spooky, maybe more akin to spirits from nature or perhaps shintoism.

But so far it looks like her abilities are Plant + Sun.

The Reservoir could easily be Will-O-Wisps rather tan plants. That could have a bit more of cohesion.... but still: why the sun? it confused me. Also: aren't we having too many ultimates in the style of "press 4 to channel death ray"? I feel that we are having too many of these, where we basically trade the control over our warframe for an easy way to kill enemies. Revenant has one, Garuda almost had one? Hildryn does not have any death ray incorporated to her ult, but she also loses control in order to channel her ultimate.

 

14 hours ago, Johnprofit said:

Was excited to see wisp, but after seeing her kit, I'm a bit dissapointed. Considering her idle animations and the way she just floats about, I was expecting a more ghost-y/spirit of the forest-y kind of abilities tbh.

Also, it's kinda ironic that you guys talked about how Vauban can't keep with the game's pace because his abilities are immobile and yet give wisp immobile buff dispensers. I realize that what was shown were WIPs and I sincerely hope you guys take a second look at wisp's kit because so far, she's falling into the same boat as revenant. 

While I do understand your disappointment and I personally do not know how to feel about this frame I do want to point out that her kit IS accurate to her theme, swamp and fire  are VERY strongly tied "Will-o'-the-wisp", since Will-o'-the-wisp is light/fire seen over bogs, swamps or marshes. So your disappointment comes from the fact that devs were too accurate to her theme.

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hace 26 minutos, Culaio dijo:

 

While I do understand your disappointment and I personally do not know how to feel about this frame I do want to point out that her kit IS accurate to her theme, swamp and fire  are VERY strongly tied "Will-o'-the-wisp", since Will-o'-the-wisp is light/fire seen over bogs, swamps or marshes. So your disappointment comes from the fact that devs were too accurate to her theme.

Well, that might be accurate: But still there's a certain expectation within most of the community that is not met with a frame named "Wisp" who uses plants and sun. What you pointed out it's true, yes, but it's still weird it's more based on the location than what will-o-wisp actually do. If we look it from the Folklore point of view, there's no mention that they control plants or irradiate the light of the sun: they lure travelers to them making them think is a lamp. The intention varies from country to country, but that's pretty much what they do. 

And, look at it this way: if you start making the abilities first and the name, animations and appearance later, will you call the frame "Wisp" ? or would you go with a more druidic name and behavior? To be fair tho, it's passive and teleportation really looks like something ghostly. The sunbeam is... a bit of a stretch, but okay. The plants are still weird but i get what you say: it's part of it's folklore.

I don't want this to be a back and forth of quotes: This is not me saying "oh but you're still wrong and they design the frame wrong". I mean, most people saw the sun ray and was mesmerized by it, and as always with frames, some people will be happy and some don't. I was a bit excited to see [DE] make a ghostly-type frame and i feel i got something closer to Bulbasaur. So yeah, i'm still not convinced with what they showed us, even if there's after all, accuracy in the theme.

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Jus a small suggest thingy, so is she going to have the normal melee swings always? And I did notice that she does walk like a normal frame when you move when you aim down the sights, are you going to add a floating animation to that? But her 4th though...........Praise the Sun -Solaire

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Wisps second and fourth ability i liked but i was really hoping for some form of wukong flight that allows her to pass through walls(same rule as punch through, boundary walls cant be passed) that would also utilise her passive because right now only her second skill really does. Her third is interesting for interception while first one is lacklucster.

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-04-08 at 8:59 AM, Culaio said:

 

While I do understand your disappointment and I personally do not know how to feel about this frame I do want to point out that her kit IS accurate to her theme, swamp and fire  are VERY strongly tied "Will-o'-the-wisp", since Will-o'-the-wisp is light/fire seen over bogs, swamps or marshes. So your disappointment comes from the fact that devs were too accurate to her theme.

I think my biggest dissappointment with Wisp was after seeing her fourth ability.  The moment I saw it I thought, "Shouldn't Ember have that ability?".

The fact that our resident 'fire frame' has inferior fire abilities compared to one that isn't based solely around fire (and let's be honest, Ember's abilities are inferior to everyone nowadays, she's in desperate need of a proper rework) seems like a bit of a kick in the face to Ember fans.

Not that I don't like the look of Wisp.  Her abilities seem pretty cool, but they also seem to be a bit of a mish-mash of things that don't all fit in to a singular theme.

Edited by Konachibi
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Posted (edited)
On 2019-04-06 at 6:23 PM, ml1201 said:

In regards to the Itzal it has the speed as its pro, but its con is that one shot you're basically dead and if you're playing someone with a continual power like Inaros' scarab armor, its gone once you enter archwing. So that's something you have to worry about with the Itzal when traveling with the archwing. If you nerfed the speed people will just use either Zypher for their fly thing (which is also pretty fast), void dash and Nova's portals. Those are, if done correctly, potentially faster than k-drive, so if you nerf the Itzals speed you would have to nerf all of that as well to *force* people to have other options. I personally don't use the Itzal, not a huge fan of it because its not as versatile for general use. My suggestion instead is just do something to boost the k-drive because no matter what people will find a way to get to places the fastest way possible and still not use the k-drive unless you do something to boost it. I was talking with a friend and they were saying give the k-drive powers or give them mods that will let them do boosts, kind of the a 'Nitro' boost thing like in racing games. This way the fun can be combined with more speed and you don't have to upset the player base by nerfing Itzal. This would also allow people to more likely choose the k-drive over archwing since archwing does cancel out things like scarab armor.

There is a bigger reason why people like Itzal and archwings in general. Obstacles. You don't hit rocks and trees on the way when you fly unless you intentionally flying right next to the ground. In Orb Vallis it's especially important since it's one tremendous obstacle, so when you want to get from point A to point B you either stick to the roads (which is S L O W and forces you visit points C, D and Y on the way) or fly over all this and just get directly where you want to be and faster than by using anything else (beside Zephyr and Nova, they are good at moving fast in 3 dimensions).

So, in short: K-Drives won't EVER get popular as long as they stuck to the surface.

Being able to jump doesn't help them much even with jump height boost. They are occasionally helpful on Plains since they are mostly flat, but Orb Vallis is a nightmare to traverse on K-Drive. Hell, do I even have to point it out? How DE haven't seen this when they introduced K-Drives I don't understand. So, no matter what people _WONT_ use k-drives as primary way of transportation. Not because Itzal can teleport, but because literally any archwing is much better (and faster!) and there are at least two frames which are as good as archwings. Why bother with ground-bound washboard which brings literally nothing to the table and actually takes away your powers as long as you are on it. Dunno, maybe let us use (at least most) of our warframe powers and weapons while standing on a K-Drive? Of course as long as it makes sense. No Rhino Stomp and melee for sure and likely no heavy guns in this mode. Maybe let us use them in other missions beside Plains and Vallis? Use them in the spoiler mode? Once again, without taking away our spoiler powers! Void-dashing on a k-drive could be fun and may actually help make them more useful in terms of transportation.

Edited by lainverse
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