Archwing Variety Fix (Itzal Nerf), K-Drive problems

[Jinzanami]

2 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

I actually use K-drives both in Cetus and Vallis even when I'm grinding. Because you know... I just like to chill out. Unlike you. Who completely went bonkers over an ability getting nerfed.

bonker ? you lying to your teeth lol ! if k-drives and walking is that great then why scott suggested to take out blink ? what for ? so we use other archwings ? for what exactly ? 

what propse does it serve ? and why nerf it now ? why should i use any archwing other than itzal or the healing one ? comeback when you can answer that one.

[GinKenshin]

One reason I don’t prefer KD is how restricting they are. They only revolve around OV and if you want to make them better, you have to spend all your time there. Now this makes sense lore wise but it’s really annoying gameplay wise 

 

  You have to farm the standing in OV which is a nightmare for low end PCs. Do races or circle the pearl for standing while having crappy FPS, and get essential mods from a syndicate made entirely to stretch out the ‘content’ in the first few weeks of OV introduction.... While I can just get the freebie AW I got from a quest and even that is faster. I can understand good mods like dual stats or whatever which drop from the kids, but don’t lock out essential ones. Give us different ways of earning standing for the KDs, wats outside of OV

 

   One of the biggest faults of DE is their damned pride. Just because you spend work on a system doesn’t mean you can force it on us. This happened for skins, weapons, you name it. 

[JackHargreav]

1 minute ago, Jinzanami said:

bonker ? you lying to your teeth lol ! if k-drives and walking is that great then why scott suggested to take out blink ? what for ? so we use other archwings ? for what exactly ? 

what propse does it serve ? and why nerf it now ? why should i use any archwing other than itzal or the healing one ? comeback when you can answer that one.

I don't have to answer it. Since you are so butthurt the only thing you can think about is that you're right and everyone who disagrees with you is just a "blind fanboy". So there is no reason to answer you and there is no reason to continue this pointless conversation. Though I hope they will nerf Itzal now. 

[Jinzanami]

Just now, JackHargreav said:

I don't have to answer it. Since you are so butthurt the only thing you can think about is that you're right and everyone who disagrees with you is just a "blind fanboy". So there is no reason to answer you and there is no reason to continue this pointless conversation. Though I hope they will nerf Itzal now. 

you're far gone, you've been playing since 2013 you should see trough they're facade by now, but from the look of it you're a lost case.

and so since i am butthurt, does that mean you took that needle like a good boy without screaming or complaining ? just something to think about.

and provide one valid reason on why you think they should nerf itzal now, where are you 3 years ago ? why nert now, or was it because scott said so and since hes a dev then as a cultist you gotta take his word to the heart and defend it no matter what without any critical thought, this is exactly what i see with you now.

[JackHargreav]

Just now, Jinzanami said:

you're far gone, you've been playing since 2013 you should see trough they're facade by now, but from the look of it you're a lost case.

and so since i am butthurt, does that mean you took that needle like a good boy without screaming or complaining ? just something to think about.

and provide one valid reason on why you think they should nerf itzal now, where are you 3 years ago ? why nert now, or was it because scott said so and since hes a dev then as a cultist you gotta take his word to the heart and defend it no matter what without any critical thought, this is exactly what i see with you now.

Looking at ppl who lose their mind over it this much, It would actually make happy if they would nerf it into oblivion so I could see all these ppl go completely insane.

[auxy]

You know it's funny, the dev team seems to be taking a lot of inspiration from Devil May Cry 5 lately, which I am totally and completely on board with.
Maybe they could take some inspiration from that game's Qliphoth levels for the area design of a new area where K-Drives and even on-foot movement are the most efficient way to get around.

I mean you could argue that that's already the case for most of the game; most of the starmap for sure, but those aren't big open-world zones.
It COULD be interesting to have what is essentially a Grineer Galleon or Corpus Facility open-world area with a fixed layout, just extremely massive. Missions could take place going from A to B, on small parts of the map. That's all getting a bit off-topic though. ;つД｀)

I wish someone at DE would reply to these posts at least.
Even a "thanks for posting, that idea is interesting" (or, on other types of posts "thanks, we're looking into it" or "thanks, we understand" or "thanks for the feedback" or "thanks for the kind words") would let us know that our voices are being heard by somebody on the inside.

[Jinzanami]

1 minute ago, JackHargreav said:

Looking at ppl who lose their mind over it this much, It would actually make happy if they would nerf it into oblivion so I could see all these ppl go completely insane.

you should've said that from the start so i dont waste my time arguing with you lol, you're a fanatic trough and trough, you just like to be against the tide especially when the tide is against DE.

you didnt answer jack from what i asked you, why nerf it now and for what reason ?

[(XBOX)HyDra v NuK3Zz]

This will be the icing on the cake, they will bleed (even more) players to newer games and those who remain will feel more inclined to become "free play" only.. I'm gonna check out Sekiro. Peace.. 

[JackHargreav]

4 minutes ago, Jinzanami said:

you should've said that from the start so i dont waste my time arguing with you lol, you're a fanatic trough and trough, you just like to be against the tide especially when the tide is against DE.

you didnt answer jack from what i asked you, why nerf it now and for what reason ?

Umm.. I answered it. You're lazy and want to just blaze through everything.

And nah. I'm not a fanatic I just like to piss off others.

[Gabbynaru]

Will you be complaining about content drought in the future? Yes? Then stop complaining about them taking the easy route. Nerfing one item is easier, takes less time and less manpower to do than buffing everything else would. That means more time and more manpower for more content. Like it or not, we're a really demanding bunch of aholes, so they'll always take the easiest route to satisfying us, because we will never be satisfied for long.

[rune_me]

2 minutes ago, Syrtis said:

As yes the same hackneyed idea of, if you don't like it leave. How about instead we stay and try to make it better for everyone.  It's one aspect of they game but a major one. They are trying to force people to use their crappy kdrives by nerfing the one good archwing. They may as well have made all AW the same boring generic thing.

We can not make the game better for everyone. Because everyone don't want the same thing. If I want Itzal nerfed and you don't, then how can we make the game better for both of us? That would be impossible. Since the Warframe community is not a hive mind, and since we clearly want very different things from the game, every decision made is bound to make someone happy, and someone else unhappy. 

[FlyingDice]

2 hours ago, iLLusionMast3r said:

what if they nerf itzal then buff k-drive 

What's actually going to happen is that they'll nerf Itzal (forgetting that Itzal's tradeoff was always giving up tankiness for the sake of speed) then release a bunch of new archwing content where Itzal is completely useless because it's both squishy and slow and never remember to buff it back up.

[Jinzanami]

2 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

Umm.. I answered it. You're lazy and want to just blaze through everything.

And nah. I'm not a fanatic I just like to piss off others.

so how exactly should've i play POA when it was released in your opinion ? if i am farming for an Eidlon lens or Augur secrets should i use itzal blink/void dash or should i walk on foot so i can enjoy every rock and tree i come across after i done that bounty for 99th time ? 

why was not this a problem until now ? hm ? why ? and i can see that you enjoy to piss off others and i have the same mode swings sometimes, its the reason i am banned from overwatch until 9 of this month lol, i like to make drama.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

I sincerely hope they Nerf it. Just to show everyone who's the boss muahahahaha 

They took my void, so now it's time they take stuff from you guys 😉 have fun!

Maybe they should take your life next? 😂 

When everyone loses, there is no winner.

2 hours ago, Xydeth said:

i would much prefer if all arch wings had itzals speed. solved. better buff the other than nerf something nice, right ? its not like were in a competitive pvp game here. scott mentioned choice...if all archwings were this fast, or at least half as fast, then -> solved and choice remains imo.

This. Elytron Core Vent could become a Volt style speed buff and the Odonata Decoys could also do something for its speed since they mostly do nothing. No idea for Amesha but they will figure something out.

Also, the EMP rockets on open world needs to go. There is no point using Archwing for anything outside of speed if they are all equally papery. Make Elytron and Odonata able to actually rain death from above while not dying. Make Amesha as indestructible as it is in Archwing missions.

[Yamazuki]

47 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

K-drives have nothing to do with this. Itzal is the only Archwing that is used to travel fast. That's it. And if they nerf that one ability? Do you seriously think that an archwing should be used only for one ability or something?

For Orb/PoE, Archwhings 99% of the time are used purely for mobility, this means, you take the one that is going to accomplish that the best. It's inefficient to sit on your Archwing for combat, which also means you wouldn't bring one that is good for it, which again, encourages bringing the best Archwing in terms of mobility. Itzal isn't even the only case of being brought for a single ability. Look at how Rhino is generally brought only for his shield or his buff depending on content; Trinity is mostly brought for her second skill, the list goes on. Various content sees preferences for specific abilities and even weapon types.

There are plenty of other ways of making other Archwings desirable for Orb/PoE or K-Drives. it's simply easier to just nerf Itzal and call it a day, pat themselves on the back and say they tried.

[Xepthrichros]

17 hours ago, LSG501 said:

The only way the dev's are going to force me into using the k-drive to traverse around an open world is to physically remove archwings....if you do that I won't bother with open worlds, I'm already bored of them so it won't be a great loss.

I don't like k-drives, I just don't like how they control and I hate the fact I need to level them for no reason other than to get my mr standing, they shouldn't have been tied to MR and should have been a side 'mission' we can access for racing or stunts etc. 

Archwings will ALWAYS be faster than k-drives when we can fly over rather than around the mountains....the simple fact is that k-drives are poorly thought out for a mountainous map, they're 'fine' (albeit slower still) on PoE.

This is an issue that DE brought on themselves, they added something that wasn't needed or good enough 'just because' players were asking for it....not everything people wants is right for the game.  If DE wanted to add k-drives what should have happened is that they should have been the transportation on PoE with it's flat open map, archwings should have been for OV and no use of the k-drives there. 

Itzal should not be punished because DE added something that wasn't right for a map.

 

In all honesty it annoys the hell out of me when 3 of us are waiting at the exit and one player has decided they're going to crawl back to the exit from the other side of the map on a k-drive when the rest of us have used our archwings, hell I've been in situations where we've finished a bounty before a k-drive user has even got to it's location... we don't have all day to wait for a k-drive to catch up.

To add, if they want us to use K-Drives more, make K-Drives part of combat then!

How about wielding melee while on K-Drive and slashing enemies while we speed past them, sorta like horseback cavalry but in a more... space ninja swag manner?

K-Drive gains a use for ground combat and see more frequent usage.

Archwings remain as the best open-world traversal option.

Edited April 6, 2019 by Xepthrichros

[iLightning13]

2 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

This. Elytron Core Vent could become a Volt style speed buff and the Odonata Decoys could also do something for its speed since they mostly do nothing. No idea for Amesha but they will figure something out.

Isn't the point of archwings that they all have distinct playstyles though? Just like how Frost P has 0.95 speed but Equinox P has 1.2 speed?

Give Elytron the ability to move quickly, then that gives it speed and offence, where itzal doesn't have that. If we stick speed on all the other archwings, then logically itzal should get all the offensive traits of the other archwings too. Maybe shove in amesha's survivability into all the other ones too? That just homogenises all of them and they'll all be the same.

Itzal is good at traversal. That's because it's the fast archwing. It's also rubbish at surviving and dealing damage. That'd be clear if archwing missions were any good. If they nerf itzal before they release the archwing rework, it'll have no use in either archwing missions OR in the open world.

[Steel_Rook]

I personally absolutely hate Void Dash and other "teleporting" abilities like them. While they're quick for travel in some circumstances, they completely lack any sort of sense of speed. As old Need 4 Speed games showed us by counter-intuitively blurring the world at high speed, presentation matters often far more so than actual ground speed. I personally vastly prefer travelling via Archwing Boost than via any kind of teleportation or blink or whatever else. The sense of speed is far more prominent and the travel time is fairly minimal. I can survive taking 10-20 seconds to get from point to point.

That said...

 

36 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

One reason I don’t prefer KD is how restricting they are. They only revolve around OV and if you want to make them better, you have to spend all your time there. Now this makes sense lore wise but it’s really annoying gameplay wise 

Absolutely true. The K-Drive progression system is utter nonsense. You get a S#&$ K-Drive which can't level up or use mods, which you then have to grind most prominently by doing circles at the Pearl, so you can buy a S#&$ K-Drive that CAN level up, which you then have to grind some more to eventually get some mods to make it borderline usable. You can't use the sodding things anywhere but Orb Vallis and the Plains of Eidolon despite other instances having plenty of room, you can't gain affinity by using them for travel (tricks are always slower than straight-line speed) and they're not all that good even when fully-upgraded. DE's approach of giving us utter garbage and tasking us with a boring grind to upgrade it into basic functionality is not good.

 

3 hours ago, taiiat said:

only one Archwing is about Mobility, and Archwings CANNOT participate in Combat since literally every single Enemy has a personal SAM site in their pocket and there's emplaced AA around everywhere too. Amesha maybe if that invulnerability + Damage instance ignoring like Mesmer Skin will protect it from being shot down? haven't tried.

That too. It's pretty clear that DE don't want us using Archwings for combat in Free Roam zones. Eidolon fights are the only exception, and I suspect only by omission. My guess about the reasoning is two-fold. Firstly, DE's original design for Free Roam Archwings was to make them a heavily regulated resource via the use of Launcher charges. As such, enemies who shoot you out of your Archwing and burn a charge make sense, from an "A****** design" point of view. They also solve the issue of players wanting to jump out of their Archwings and back in only temporarily burning a charge, since they'll be losing charges in normal combat anyway.

My backup guess is DE meant to obfuscate just how little Archwing content there is. Archwings are pretty strong, and the Amesha can make players outright invincible on the Plains between its support ability and keeping players out of melee/bombardment range. Giving us permanent Archwings would reduce "Warframe" variety in the Plains down to just the four Archwings and further down to just two, since players would likely use their Archwings over their own Warframes. Having enemies shoot us out of our Archwings forces us to use the far more varied Warframes, thus sidestepping the fact that we have FOUR Archwings after all these years.

Broadly speaking, though, AA missiles need to either be removed or made susceptible to Archwing abilities. Odonata Flares, Amesha invulnerability/shield/drones, etc. Let us fight from our Archwings, even if that means we use them predominantly over our Warframes. There's plenty of content where Archwings wouldn't work due to the tight quarters, so if players want permanent flight then #*!%ING LET US! And if range is an issue, add aerial enemies to those maps. The game already has plenty of flying enemies available in Archwing missions, just have Tusk and Terra versions of those. Give ground players some reason to consider AA ourselves, give Archiwng players actual dogfights to take part in. AA missiles are the single greatest problem with Archwings in open-world maps, as far as I'm concerned.

[Steel_Rook]

3 hours ago, Drachnyn said:

Ther is nothing to do between two bounty points. Slowing down achieves nothing and Kdrives would still be worthless. 

Random question: What's the point of having an open-world map in the first place if all the openness adds is a commute?

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, iLightning13 said:

Isn't the point of archwings that they all have distinct playstyles though? Just like how Frost P has 0.95 speed but Equinox P has 1.2 speed?

Give Elytron the ability to move quickly, then that gives it speed and offence, where itzal doesn't have that. If we stick speed on all the other archwings, then logically itzal should get all the offensive traits of the other archwings too. Maybe shove in amesha's survivability into all the other ones too? That just homogenises all of them and they'll all be the same.

Itzal is good at traversal. That's because it's the fast archwing. It's also rubbish at surviving and dealing damage. That'd be clear if archwing missions were any good. If they nerf itzal before they release the archwing rework, it'll have no use in either archwing missions OR in the open world.

Itzal will still be faster and can blink. Itzal will still be invisible. Itzal will still have cosmic crush.

Elytron could do with a good sustained speed, which is very different from blink. It is more straight line. Odonata could also do well with that.

You completely ignore the second half. I clearly said "no Itzal nerfs". Your ability to misread is strong.

I am arguing against nerfs and you seem to be shooting the wrong target, pal.

[Zeclem]

9 minutes ago, iLightning13 said:

Isn't the point of archwings that they all have distinct playstyles though? Just like how Frost P has 0.95 speed but Equinox P has 1.2 speed?

Give Elytron the ability to move quickly, then that gives it speed and offence, where itzal doesn't have that. If we stick speed on all the other archwings, then logically itzal should get all the offensive traits of the other archwings too. Maybe shove in amesha's survivability into all the other ones too? That just homogenises all of them and they'll all be the same.

Itzal is good at traversal. That's because it's the fast archwing. It's also rubbish at surviving and dealing damage. That'd be clear if archwing missions were any good. If they nerf itzal before they release the archwing rework, it'll have no use in either archwing missions OR in the open world.

what you said would make sense if de actually let us use our archwing for combat in open world. they do not, so anything thats not as fast as itzal is just inferior to it.

[FlusteredFerret]

17 hours ago, Lion said:

Scott has made it clear he wants to nerf Itzal because K-Drive sucks.

In my opinion, Itzal is not overperforming, K-Drive is just underperforming. Heck I can outrun a K-Drive with Loki.

Please just buff K-Drive and call it good.

 

First off...K-Drive doesn't "suck". You're comparing apples with oranges. Two very different modes of transport with different purposes, to suit different play styles.

 

Secondly, worry about the Archwing nerf as and when it happens. Pointless speculating and crying over something when you don't even know exactly what they plan to do with it.

 

And no, I'm not a K-Drive fanboi. I don't really have a preference. I probably use my K-Drive more for general getting around, but prefer using the Archwing for covering very long distances quickly, or getting to hard-to-reach locations.

 

Edited April 6, 2019 by FlusteredFerret

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Steel_Rook said:

Random question: What's the point of having an open-world map in the first place if all the openness adds is a commute?

Equally random question: Why wasn't anything added except for the commute?

[Jinzanami]

1 minute ago, FlusteredFerret said:

First off...K-Drive doesn't "suck". You're comparing apples with oranges. Two very different modes of transport with different purposes, to suit different play styles.

 

Secondly, worry about the Archwing nerf as and when it happens. Pointless speculating and crying over something when you don't even know exactly what they plan to do with it.

 

you gotta make them hear us ''load and clear'' in reddit and official forum and twitter because theres no freaking way the rebbeca and the rest of the team didnt discuses this with scott, they're reaction to scott was fake, they're testing the water and we gotta show them the water is roaring and will take no bs up its rear.

remember the carrier vacuum ? we asked them for years to make it unviresal so we cn use it with our cats and dogs and even deathcube, no response.

but once they did accepted then what did we get ? a nerfed version that nobody asked for, people might even prefered to keep vacuum as is if they foreseen DE crap.

and i can see the same thing happening with Itzal, the reason we heard about it now is because of the POA remaster, they want us to walk that place on our foot to inspect every rock and tree and body of water that they ''reworked'' and be amazed, but this sht get old the second time and nobody get time for that so they dont like it, they want itzal blink gone to make our framing even more miserable for no reason but to please themselves, only them win if this happen.

[iLightning13]

Just now, Datam4ss said:

Itzal will still be faster and can blink. Itzal will still be invisible. Itzal will still have cosmic crush.

Elytron could do with a good sustained speed, which is very different from blink. It is more straight line. Odonata could also do well with that.

You completely ignore the second half. I clearly said "no Itzal nerfs". Your ability to misread is strong.

I am arguing against nerfs and you seem to be shooting the wrong target, pal.

From what I understood from your comment, you implied that the other archwings' speed should be buffed. I disagree with that, as I think the mechanics of the open world should be changed to accommodate their playstyles more. So I didn't misread you, I argued with the point I actually disagreed with. I agree with your second point.

22 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

Also, the EMP rockets on open world needs to go. There is no point using Archwing for anything outside of speed if they are all equally papery. Make Elytron and Odonata able to actually rain death from above while not dying. Make Amesha as indestructible as it is in Archwing missions.

This part of your comment I agree with. This'd be a good way of fixing it but that's as far as it needs to go. There's no need to make elytron/odonata faster because that's not what its intended playstyle is. Blowing stuff up is what it's good for, so that's what needs to be improved in the open worlds. As for speed, stick hyperion thrusters on it.

 

5 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

what you said would make sense if de actually let us use our archwing for combat in open world. they do not, so anything thats not as fast as itzal is just inferior to it.

I agree with this. The way open worlds interact with archwing needs looking at as the only point of using them at the moment is to zip around the map.