Archwing Variety Fix (Itzal Nerf), K-Drive problems

[FlusteredFerret]

12 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

Because Itzal is the only option at the moment. Sure, you lose one by nerfing Itzal, but that brings all other Archwing, as well as Void Dash, Nova and all the other things mentioned in this thread into the fold. -1(Itzal)+6(AW, Void Dash, Nova)=5 new options.

Good point. But maths is hard for some people, so it may fall on deaf ears. 

[RX-3DR]

I'd like to remind people about the Jordas Golem. If you don't understand what this has to do with the Itzal, think about it in relation to the upcoming Railjack. If you still don't get it, you don't understand how deeply rooted the potential problem is.

[Blatantfool]

15 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

Because Itzal is the only option at the moment. Sure, you lose one by nerfing Itzal, but that brings all other Archwing, as well as Void Dash, Nova and all the other things mentioned in this thread into the fold. -1(Itzal)+6(AW, Void Dash, Nova)=5 new options.

 This logic is pretty dumb. It ignores a lot about the reality of how the game plays out in regards to K-Drives.

 I don't regularly use Itzal. I use Odonata Prime mostly. It matters exactly 0 which Archwing you use. Regardless of Archwing the fact remains that Archwing beats K-Drive because 'Flying over' > 'Driving around'.

 Itzal is the best option if you want to save 4-5 second increments in your grind but ultimately even that doesn't matter much. 

 In Archwing:

• You can nearly instantly leave an unwanted or superfluous fight.
• You can shoot your guns.
• You have a kit of skills.
• You can fly over any potential conflict.
• You can fly directly to a goal.

 All of the above remain true regardless of choice of archwing.

Meanwhile K-Drives:

• Slower than archwing, meaning slower retreats from unwanted fights.
• You cannot attack in a meaningful way. (There are damaging mods but I've never seen any suggestion that they scale well enough to be better than even a basic gun.)
• You can going to have to wind around things to reach your goal. There are no cheeky ways to get past a mountain in only a second or two.

 

 Itzal being able to teleport certainly takes a dump on K-Drives. Undeniably. But that is probably because K-Drives already can't hold a candle to literally being able to fly and shoot.

Edited April 6, 2019 by Blatantfool

[Blatantfool]

Itzal getting nerfed will just mean ALL the Archwings are pretty bad.

[lnfine]

20 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

Because Itzal is the only option at the moment. Sure, you lose one by nerfing Itzal, but that brings all other Archwing, as well as Void Dash, Nova and all the other things mentioned in this thread into the fold. -1(Itzal)+6(AW, Void Dash, Nova)=5 new options.

They aren't options. In fact Void Dash and Nova are still valid options and at least Nova is still faster than Itzal in practice, it's just Itzal gives you an option to bring any other frame than Nova.

Nerfing itzal to put it in line with other AWs movement wise is like saying "here are 4 puddings - blue, green, red and yellow. They all taste the same though, and there's no difference besides colour". That's not options because there's no difference. There's no difference between AWs for open world besides speed, and making them all the same speed makes them no different from each other for the purpose of moving around in open world. They might as well be different itzal skins at that point. Here's your red Nova and blue Nova - you now have options.

Yes, Itzal is overrepresented in open world. It's not because itzal speed too high plz nurf. It's because nobody needs anything besides speed, and itzal happens to be good at it at the expense of things that are useless in open world.

[Xzorn]

4 minutes ago, HexOmega111x said:

Very interesting post but you end it with that. 

You have as many options as you have different archwings and as many possible choices as you are able to imagine /create your own game experience.

 

The option is Travel.

The choice is best at Travel because Travel is the only option.

I should have said "One option and one Obvious choice"  but I felt that was implied.

It's perfectly fine to play at your own pace and stop to look at the scenery but you also have to remember in the end Warframe is a farming game. This has more recently been reinforced to the game's detriment by having players repeatedly perform the same task over and over until a result is achieved instead of simply playing and getting a result as you play. Click the bounty go, Click the bounty go. Kill the same boss over and over again. It becomes quite tedious and so eventually that Efficiency bug bites us. I didn't use Archwing at all when PoE first came out. I ran everywhere like I do in games like Skyrim. I almost never fast travel but eventually that fades.

A lot of it is DE's development approach of "Spam the mission" instead of play the mission. Most rewards these days are results of a singular task.

[Justin_Case001]

So... is it some kind of sore spot for DE that we don't use K-Drives much?  I mean... K-Drives don't have the potential to be a big money maker for DE, right?  I mean, not like rivens or something.  Y'know... cuz folks buy a lot of plat to spend on rivens... so... y'know... rivens were a smart addition on DE's part from a marketing standpoint... and... y'know... I applaud that because they have to make a profit somewhere or... y'know... no game for anyone.  But it's not like K-Drives would ever be a big source of money.  I mean.... I don't really see how you'd spend a lot of plat on K-Drives.  Okay, so what I'm getting at is this: why should DE care so much whether we use them or not?!  Like, I'm legitimately asking.  This isn't just a rhetorical, angry thing.  I'm really trying to understand why they would even care so much.  What difference does it make whether we use friggin' K-Drives? 

I personally love the K-Drive for goofing around.  Few things in this game bring me as much joy as loading up a free roam map in the captura, blasting my board off a high cliff, doing a sick nose grab, and then letting myself crash to the ground, wipe out hard and ragdoll down the hillside for half a mile.  That's one of the best things they ever added to the game.  Who would have ever thought that this game could become a little Grand Theft Auto on the side?  I never saw that coming, but I love it.  But for practical use during missions?  Nope.  Duh.  Of course not.  And that's fine!  I put a lot of work into my archwing, anyway, and it's ideal for free roam.  It's tons of fun.  What's wrong with that?!  I genuinely do not understand why DE care so much whether we use K-Drives.  It's just an optional side thing.  Is it like the end of frickin world or something?

I don't even use Itzal myself, but now I'm starting to worry that they are going to systematically nerf every possible way of moving until K-Drives are the fastest and easiest way to get around in the entire game.  Please just leave it alone, DE.  It's all fine the way it is.  You wanna give K-Drives more or different abilities to incentivize them?  I'd be cool with that.  But don't wreck other stuff.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Xepthrichros said:

To add, if they want us to use K-Drives more, make K-Drives part of combat then!

How about wielding melee while on K-Drive and slashing enemies while we speed past them, sorta like horseback cavalry but in a more... space ninja swag manner?

10/10 support

I want to feel like a purse snatcher stealing a Heavy Gunner's handbag XD

[Lhudge]

Zephyr does the work too, very well.

But you have to take her.

[JackHargreav]

2 hours ago, Yamazuki said:

There are plenty of other ways of making other Archwings desirable for Orb/PoE or K-Drives. it's simply easier to just nerf Itzal and call it a day, pat themselves on the back and say they tried.

Except Itzal's blink is always gonna be the easiest and fastest way to travel. So You can't just buff Archwings up to Itzal's level.

[TARINunit9]

2 hours ago, Hawner said:

 It can be used as a way to ress a friend by stopping quickly to his location and stopping right there without a problem. ^^

You can also just hold down X. Even if you're sprinting in archwing, you'll automatically stop and start the reviving process once you touch the downed teammate

[Lutesque]

I just all my frames on PoE for Sprint Speed then stack it with Amalgam Serration then use Naramon to traverse large distances.... I move faster on foot then anyone on K-Drives. 

Edited April 6, 2019 by Lutesque

[Legion-Shields]

If you do this I’m going to ask for a Nova nerf.

[HexOmega111x]

il y a 3 minutes, Xzorn a dit :

"Spam the mission" instead of play the mission.

Yes, interesting again. But this is exactly what warframe is and has always been. If you express it that way, it means that this is how you feel the game or how some game mechanics prevents you to have a different approach of it. 

This is definitely not about who is right or who is playing the game in a wiser manner. But from DE perspective, I can understand that they want to give more meanings to the other tools they give to the players. They are just making it the wrong way. Sometimes. And sometimes players are overreacting. I can't imagine that this itzal nerf will ruin your entire open world experience. 

Now, I hope that they will not stop there and enhance or increase the usefulness of the archwing feature in a more global way for the open world areas. Itzal is just a part of it after all. 

[JackHargreav]

3 hours ago, Jinzanami said:

so how exactly should've i play POA when it was released in your opinion ? if i am farming for an Eidlon lens or Augur secrets should i use itzal blink/void dash or should i walk on foot so i can enjoy every rock and tree i come across after i done that bounty for 99th time ? 

why was not this a problem until now ? hm ? why ? and i can see that you enjoy to piss off others and i have the same mode swings sometimes, its the reason i am banned from overwatch until 9 of this month lol, i like to make drama.

Why should I tell you? I'm not you.

And I already told you that I use K-drives even when I'm grinding for stuff. So You can't tell me that Itzal is a necessity.

[Maka.Bones]

5 hours ago, Ssalem said:

If you nerf Itzal, I'm just gonna take my max range/efficiency Nova and sh*t all over the Plains anyway, and get through it in 5 seconds flat.

Don't forget Titania

[lnfine]

7 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

Except Itzal's blink is always gonna be the easiest and fastest way to travel.

And this is a problem why? I mean there will always be some one single thing among all the alternatives that has the fastest to travel.

Edited April 6, 2019 by lnfine

[JackHargreav]

Just now, lnfine said:

And this is a problem why? I mean there will always be some one single thing among all the alternatives that has the fastest to travel.

Except we are talking about vehicles. Itzal is just ridiculously fast. Broken fast in fact. Teleporting it self is not a problem necessary. But constant spamming is.

[Autizboyz]

1 thing for sure, human are realy like to complaint even to a little S#&$. I can see why DE decide to nerf itzal mobility. Itzal already have so much mobility and player abuse it way too much, itzal can easily circle all PoE and fortuna map under 3 min easily. Isn't that what you call "too much"? Just chill the fvck out and stop freaking out about every little thing. Even if they are going to nerf itzal, i would say they just going to tune down a lil bit the warp distance, as some player said itzal will still the fastest transport/archwing. I don't see why you people freaking out about this. You are not force by DE to use any transport and that filthy k-drive.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

DE announces Stamina Bar is back....Enjoy...

[Tazrizen]

I'll be honest, I love my itzal, porting around the map with ease. It's definitely the goto archwing for just about everything, exp farming with crush, stealth for riven unlocking, blinking across any open world area to objectives even drones that draw aggro away from you. It's just good at everything, that's the problem. 

 

With railjack coming up (For those that do not remember, it is a multistaged mission in which you go from ship, to archwing, to enemy ship to your ship and blowing it up) I feel as if itzal would simply just cut out the middle archwing part of railjack. As a game, it should be giving us content, not letting us skip it for fast loots. I get that people will miss being able to blink and I feel it too, but honestly, this nerf would be healthier for archwing content and hopefully get the devs to take another look at archguns and archwings for better experiences with them instead of the current archwing missions we have noe. 

 

So ya know, changes happen, we have other options to work with, it won't be that bad. 

[vomder]

Nerfing player efficiency, business as usual.

[lnfine]

2 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

Except we are talking about vehicles. Itzal is just ridiculously fast. Broken fast in fact. Teleporting it self is not a problem necessary. But constant spamming is.

Why is it broken? You can do the same (in fact better) with Nova.

[JackHargreav]

Just now, lnfine said:

Why is it broken? You can do the same (in fact better) with Nova.

If you don't find spamming 1 broken, then I have some concerns about you... And I can assure you. If you start blinking with nova that's also gonna get nerfed. Cheesing through the game is hardly the developers intention. And eventually they will stop you from doing it.

[Maka.Bones]

1 minute ago, JackHargreav said:

If you don't find spamming 1 broken, then I have some concerns about you... And I can assure you. If you start blinking with nova that's also gonna get nerfed. Cheesing through the game is hardly the developers intention. And eventually they will stop you from doing it.

That still doesn't answer why and how it is broken... 

 

Why should it be nerfed? On what grounds or standard/background can you say that it's broken?

 

I think your argument is like saying zephyr or Titania are broken.... It's like saying "mobility abilities are broken, because they're actually good at mobility"