Archwing Variety Fix (Itzal Nerf), K-Drive problems

[Argenex]

5 hours ago, Gabbynaru said:

What a surprise, the Itzal nerf is gonna do exactly what it's intended to, give people MORE OPTIONS! I like how you guys are digging yourselves deeper and deeper into the ground, making the Itzal nerf sound more and more reasonable with each post.

That's severely flawed logic;

They will have the same crappo options as before, and now they get to go slower, instead of faster.

[lnfine]

Just now, JackHargreav said:

If you don't find spamming 1 broken, then I have some concerns about you...

My math teacher used to say - "if something is trivial, it's easy to prove. Now prove".

The only thing I find broken is having to travel long distances for hours on end doing nothing or being annoyed by psychic dagryns appearing out of thin air.

The fact that you can go around it by feeding Itzal all the pizzas in the world is somewhere between mildly annoying and begrudgingly acceptable. I would prefer bulletjumping with AWs for similar functionality even if it was slower, but didn't require babysitting queue-less foundry baking pizzas.

Quote

And I can assure you. If you start blinking with nova that's also gonna get nerfed. Cheesing through the game is hardly the developers intention. And eventually they will stop you from doing it.

You do realize blinking with Nova was THE meta for wisp farming since forever and till now when wisps aren't required in industrial volumes anymore.

[-Temp0-]

6 часов назад, stormy505 сказал:

I remember watching brozimes video about this. Where does it end? After they nerf itzal they will go after archwings as a whole, then mobility abilities, then operator, then bullet jumping. Cause, news flash DE, all of the above are faster then kdrive. 

Issue isnt just that kdrive is slower than an internet speed of a router put into a bucket of water but the fact It cant go up and sht unlike archwing, wormholes or void dash.

Цитата

And I can assure you. If you start blinking with nova that's also gonna get nerfed. Cheesing through the game is hardly the developers intention.

Gtfo seriously.

Calling movement abilities and movement in general "cheesing" is asking for a special place in hell.

Цитата

If you do this I’m going to ask for a Nova nerf.

Just so you lemmings know - theres about a dozen other ways and warframes that have means to travel fast as fck.

Because thats 50% of what warframe is. Speed.

Edited April 6, 2019 by -Temp0-

[Schmerdvana]

I don't mind if they change blink tho. I really want to use other AW too. But everytime i don't use Itzal, the bounty is done before i can reach the point. So it's kind of boring to not have Itzal.

They can implement things on kdrives that AW lacks. Like for example, equipping mining/fishing gears, tranq rifle; or kdrives could have an innate open world resource radar. Something like that. They can also increase the speed of kdrives that is faster than a modded AW - kdrives do need to mind the terrain still.

[DoomFruit]

39 minutes ago, Jinzanami said:

but do you like grindfest walk simulator open world sans blink meatloaf ? 

Hell no. It'll taste horrible without meatloaf.

Actually, it'll taste horrible even with meatloaf. All things considered, I hate the open world environments and I go there as little as possible. I haven't even bothered attempting to get whatever that new weapon is - partially because I know for a fact that it'll be worthless mastery trash before even looking at the stats (fist and feet weapons were bad enough when we still had quick attacks, they'll be completely unusable now), but also because it's an open world area and I really don't like those.

Yeah - take away my blink and I'll just fly normally. Take away Itzal entirely and I'll fly with my Odonata. Remove that and even my Elytron is faster. Delete all Archwings and it's back to spamming void dashes, just like how things were back at plains release. Take all of that away, and I'm never touching an open world area again, regardless of what frames and weapons are locked behind it. No way in hell am I using those stupid skateboards, especially after their completely undeserved stability nerf.

[Xzorn]

23 minutes ago, HexOmega111x said:

Yes, interesting again. But this is exactly what warframe is and has always been. If you express it that way, it means that this is how you feel the game or how some game mechanics prevents you to have a different approach of it.

 

It actually hasn't been in the past. Not nearly to the extreme it is now at least.

The very first change that mandated a certain play point was when DE added the AABC rotations.

Before that was added we just played missions until we felt like leaving. There was no set rotation that gave anything different than another. It was total FFA loot. This felt more like simply playing while getting rewarded. Add that enemy drops also had more impact then they do now where it's all about mission complete instead of "Cool I found a shiny" while playing. Ephemera dropping from Exploiter Orb is a painful comparison, well as Eidolons and Arcanes.

I understand why DE thinks Itzal is a problem but I also think it's their own fault. Amesha is OP as hell yet I've little reason to use it.

[--DSP--Jetstream]

Its all started when they make archwing free

[TARINunit9]

18 minutes ago, Tazrizen said:

With railjack coming up (For those that do not remember, it is a multistaged mission in which you go from ship, to archwing, to enemy ship to your ship and blowing it up) I feel as if itzal would simply just cut out the middle archwing part of railjack.

That depends on what Railjack actually is

I used to play a lot (a LOT) of Archwing trying to get that zippin rippin rotten zarg Centaur blade (this was before I could just buy it from syndicates), and Itzal was not very popular, even in Interception missions where the whole point is supposedly to manage traveling between the four towers. Most people either wanted Elytron for the CC or Odonata for the durability/CC hybrid. Itzal was good, but in the sense that Loki is good. Loki isn't the be-all-end-all frame, Itzal wasn't the be-all-end-all archwing

Itzal became ubiquitous on open worlds solely because Blink is the only power that anyone gets a chance to make use of. I think you are the only person who actually remembers using Penumbra for Rivens (I've used it, but I totally forgot about it), and I highly doubt you get to farm more than two levels worth of affinity on a gun using Cosmic Crush before every single enemy in a 600 meter radius draws aggro, floods your screen with thrice-cursed EMP missiles and disables your archwing. Which brings me to my conclusion: it's those EMP missiles that are the reason WHY Blink became the only power anyone gets a chance to make use of

Give the other archwings a chance to exist for more than two seconds before getting shut down by EMP missiles (even Grineer Butchers can throw those missiles, it's ridiculous!) and I bet you that Itzal will no longer be the ONLY choice in players' minds. And since Railjack won't have those EMP missiles, I think it'll be a good place to test my theory

[Chasue]

Warframe is fun for me because I can be as fast as I can handle in most situations.

If I want to be slow, I can always be slow.

[Legion-Shields]

21 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

And I'll ask for your icon to get nerfed. 

I’ll ask for DE to shuffle your fashion frame colors and then lock you in colorblind mode.

[Maka.Bones]

5 minutes ago, Legion-Shields said:

I’ll ask for DE to shuffle your fashion frame colors and then lock you in colorblind mode.

I'm fine with that. But they'll probably do the same for everyone so you'll also have to deal with that issue xD

[Hawner]

hace 49 minutos, TARINunit9 dijo:

You can also just hold down X. Even if you're sprinting in archwing, you'll automatically stop and start the reviving process once you touch the downed teammate

Oh! That I didn't know! Nice! Thank you! ^^

[peterc3]

37 minutes ago, Tazrizen said:

So ya know, changes happen, we have other options to work with, it won't be that bad. 

Skywrite this over the house of everyone on the forums.

[Maka.Bones]

9 minutes ago, Chasue said:

Warframe is fun for me because I can be as fast as I can handle in most situations.

If I want to be slow, I can always be slow.

YES

[DatDarkOne]

14 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

I understand why DE thinks Itzal is a problem but I also think it's their own fault. Amesha is OP as hell yet I've little reason to use it.

I agree with this.  I'm kinda on the fence about whether Itzal gets nerfed or not.  One thing I can completely agree on is that it is DE's fault for not realizing it would happen in a huge open world.  

[Legion-Shields]

1 minute ago, Maka.Bones said:

I'm fine with that. But they'll probably do the same for everyone so you'll also have to deal with that issue xD

Oh xd 

[Plushy]

DE should remove Volts speed because it let's us run past all the content in regular missions. They should nerf any frame with invulnerability because it let's us ignore all the content. Stealth also needs to get removed because it let's us sneak past all the content. 

Even if our goal isn't to fight so we can quickly get to the content we want to play, we should still be forced to do all the boring unrelated stuff in-between.

Oh and Archwing is still too useful so DE should make it so you can NEVER stop unless you crash into something just so it's that much more annoying. 

[peterc3]

7 hours ago, Xavori said:

Please leave the frakkin' Itzal the hell alone.  Instead, fix all the reasons people don't spend more time with the other vehicles.

Itzal is capable of flying and therefore ignoring the terrain, at the very least, along with literally just skipping travel time. There is literally nothing you could do the K-Drives to change this fact. Stop this, you aren't this stupid and neither is DE. Feigning ignorance is not a good look.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

1 hour ago, Jinzanami said:

we need to boycott the game if they implemented this, Anthem player base did it and it worked and we can do it too

Except Anthem is owned by greedy, Evil As*hat companies. I'm against this nerf without a purpose, but from there to actually boycott it's a long distance.

Besides, there's been way worse stuff and such a thing never happens here. It's just some love/hate relationship bouts between the community and DE and in the end either they listen or we accept. 

However, despite being against a senseless nerf generated by K-Drive hype, which will solve nothing and probably make things worse, I am sure that DE is capable of coming up with a good trade-off. My only concern is that they are being rash about this, nerfing Itzal based on the one thing it's good at in open worlds without considering how we also use Amesha and Elytron a lot in space, and before Railjack even exists.

Because if they end up ruining Itzal by any chance expect a buff only in 2 years, when it's been neglected to a point where people even forget it exists.

Edited April 6, 2019 by (PS4)Pauloluisx

[SenariousNex]

That's like saying using Khoras 3 when it gave affinity to instantly level all your weapons is a strategy. 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Fishyflakes said:

Amesha 3 isn't Garbage it's a Nova slow your modding is probably Garbage though didn't read after that

Nah, lies, it is to keep the energy pool somewhat empty so the 4 can keep you INVINCIBLE.

That being said, there is no reason to nerf Itzal.

[HexOmega111x]

il y a 15 minutes, Xzorn a dit :

It actually hasn't been in the past. Not nearly to the extreme it is now at least.

Well, I wasn't around at that time, you know this game better than I do. But what is strange then is that some recent moves from DE tent to show that they are struggling to found a better balance. Like if they realise now that they crossed the line. The last exemple to date is the arcanes change. Which was initiated with Fortuna. 

It is hard to understand DE on a global picture but what I know for sure is that they always want to make things good or right. As I see it, the decisions they made in the past were the decisions that made warframe the awesome game it is today.

Indeed, it have a lot of flaws. It is a mess in its structure and this is maybe why they have a hard time to found a way to maintain an identity to something that is nothing else than a lot of different layers they glued together with some lore tricks. That said, I realy love this game despite all that. 

I think that the community should prepare itself to face many other changes that will not please them because this is the only way for DE to rebalance the game. Layers after layers. 

[rune_me]

Nope, this is not a letter. It's a forum post. In the wrong sub section of the forum, even.

[TARINunit9]

8 hours ago, Xavori said:

In the case of archwings, first you need to make the flying better.  I don't care if momentum is a real thing.  I don't care that space doesn't create atmospheric drag to make it easier to stop.  What I care about is that holy frak is archwing flying annoying.  And the missions...blech.

The momentum in archwing doesn't even work. Here's an experiment: sprint north, then start coasting, then aim down sights at a target in the south. You'll start coasting SOUTH, instantaneously, with no regard to momentum. Oh, but if you want to stop moving, THEN suddenly the brakes follow the laws of physics, THEN you have to hit the retrorockets to arrest all your momentum

It's just so broken, and is one of the two reasons why air-to-surface combat doesn't work. I mean this busted momentum is in play in space missions too, but space dogfighting is all about space jousting in the first place so we never noticed

[PainTako]

"Itzal is better than all other archwings and it's too strong"

Itzal isn't better than the other archwings, the others don't have a place. Itzal fixes the 2 major problems of archwing, movement and loot. With itzal you can stop on demand with it's 2, while all other archwings either have to slow down to a stop or smash itself into a wall to kill it's momentum. As for loot, the innate vacuum range is horrible while Itzal is able to pull in more loot at a much larger range with it's 3. When a game is all about loot, and there is only one way to get loot. People use it. Remember when Vacuum was only usable on Carrier?

 

With that being said, most archwings have some use when it comes to archwing missions. Odonata is meh but is the best option for killing Jordas because it has a damage buff, and it is in the most need of a rework. Elytron is best for eviscerating enemies, and Amesha is best as a support role and for defense missions. The problem is that support roles in Warframe is mostly useless aside in from specific scenarios when it comes to farming. So Amesha won't be used much.

 

"Itzal is the only used archwing in open world"
As it should be in the current situation, DE has made both factions in the open world have instantaneous ways to disable the players archwing via anti-air rockets that upon damaging you, rips you out of archwing. This makes all archwings (aside from Amesha because it has invulnerability and can avoid the anti-air) for in-combat scenarios useless. Hell, the latest "tactical alert" we had I used Amesha, and how did I play. I ran up to the coolant, pressed 4 spammed my 2 about 2-3 times. Then flew off 50m behind a rock to avoid the missles.

 

Let's imagine if you could use archwing in combat. Elytron's damage is only useful vs archwing enemies because of how severely nerfed they are. Archwing enemies are a joke, they do no damage and have no health or armor. If you ever played The Jordas Verdict you would have seen level 80 archwing enemies and laughed at them for being a joke. When you take the current enemies with scaling and armor, and then reduce Elytron's range to a insignificant range. Take into account that enemies in open world spread out a lot, and further more that Elytrons main source of damage, it's nuke, has damage fall off. There is no wonder why no one plays Elytron. It does no damage, has no range, and is overall useless in open world. Odonata is again too niche to be useful, and Amesha is fine if you want to sit in a bubble and snipe things. But most of the time you'd rather just swap to Warframe and have fun using abilities melee and guns.

 

Because of these situations, it's no wonder people only use archwing for transportation. And guess what is by design, the fastest archwing? Itzal.

 

"But Itzal is faster than K-Drive!!!"

And? What is your point? Realistically when you take into account that K-Drive is on the ground having to deal with ever changing terrain. Where you have to turn, jump, and navigate around. Of course the thing that flies through the air would be faster. Just like in real life, airplanes are faster than a car. And yes, I know we're in a game. So why not make K-Drive faster? And be able to keep up with most archwings? It shouldn't compete with Itzal blink(Because as design it should be the fastest thing in the game), but it should compete with archwings sprinting. Nerfing Itzal to be more in-line with other archwings or K-Drives just further asks the question "But isn't that suppose to be Itzal's identity? The fastest, sneaky, and squishy archwing?" Why not make archwing's more usable in open world combat, and K-Drives faster (If this was really a real point and not a joke) than nerf the identity of an archwing that has had no problems for years until recently. That way you promote more use of other archwings, and people who love K-Drives get to go faster.