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Archwing Variety Fix (Itzal Nerf), K-Drive problems


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vor 47 Minuten schrieb DreisterDino:

its slower than Archwings (and restricted to the ground) 

It's slower than archwings even if its speed is buffed because it's restricted to the ground. I wouldn't even use k-drives if the speed is buffed onto archwing level because the shortest way between A and B still is a straigth line.

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27 minutes ago, DreisterDino said:

Do you remember how hyped the playerbase was when they first showed the K-Drives at Tennocon/Devstreams? The crowd went crazy 😄

The crowd went crazy when Rebecca shot a bird, then speared a fish, then launched the Archwing in the Plains of Eidolon reveal. Because all that was new. But in the end, that's not the core of the game nor will that ever be.

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48 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

We don't need to make them viable. They need to be like Syandanas, use them if you want to, or don't.

Remove the freaking mastery points from that abomination. KDrives are the only non-combat stuff which award MR points, that's as stupid as putting MR points behind Syandanas and Accessories.

As long as they exist, I won't even bother anymore with MR grinding, as I know I'm locked out of 24k (?) unreachable Mastery points.

My thoughts exactly.

MR and leveling Kdrives was a mistake. It instantly made something that you can choose to use for fun or style into a slog. "Oh I'm whipping out my Kdrive, gotta make some stupid moves to maybe sometime level it up". There's no way I'm going to spend time doing what it takes to max the syndicate or finish maxing them up. 

What would have been better was to make races drop the mods. Kdrives should have been instantly maxed and you can run races if you want some mods. Not grinding or leveling. I think that pre-Fortuna DE got too caught up in the "Know what would be funny, lets make players GRIND when they get Kdrives. OMEGALUL"

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Alternative suggestion:

A) Let us fire guns while on K-Drives

B) Add a +damage mod to K-Drives that increases the damage of any other damage dealing mods to a level that can actually be useful against the tougher bounties.

C) Add a blink mod for K-Drives to help them compete with Operators and Archwings. Do it just like double jump, where doing a trick out of a jump warps you a considerable distance in the direction your aiming.

 

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I'm not sure there is anything they could add that would make K-Drives more than cosmetic baubles that take a lot of work to earn.

Their acquisition and leveling is unnatural to the standard gameplay and even with abilities will not be a better option for anything they do over anything else. Archwings were mandatory for missions that were in space, and underwater so leveling them involved natural progression in the game then became far more useful when open-world maps were introduced. Archwing provides abilities with superior movement in the air. Warframes will always be far superior combat on the ground.

They're nerfing Itzal because of the movement advantage. I can beat a K-drive in my sleep with my Zenurik+Naramon Waybounds while Void Dashing. Are they nerfing those next? Because I will continue to Void Dash until I'm out of energy then summon my Archwing mid-air to fly until I can Void Dash again, just as I do now. itzal's teleport is a convenience but it's not responsible for the death of K-Drives. Those were stillborn.

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I don't think they should have abilities that are active,

they should have passive ones

like some invisibility cloak for a few seconds after doing a trick (scales with trick score) 

Vacuum induction to Create a vacuum when in motion - 10/10 will scream " suck on this " while driving through a camp.

Energy transformer that replenishes energy while grinding. 

Shield siphon as you move etc. 

 

And mechanics

Like the ability to shoot weapons (maybe limited to secondary only and you have to actively switch from free form to assault mode) 

And being able to throw board  (imagine sigma octantis throw you will stay airborne while the board returns? Or you just plain dismount ) 

 

Having dedicated abilities is  bit of a stretch though. 

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vor 27 Minuten schrieb DrivaMain:

Add :

It’s tied to a Syndicate that has a daily cap and the actual standing gain is Trick Score divided by four. The standing grind is so tedious that most people don’t even bother.

 

vor 26 Minuten schrieb (PS4)robotwars7:

best solutions IMO:

- make K drives level 4x faster than they do now. they are WAY too slow, to the point where unless you spend 4 hours with a Booster in the Vallis, you've no chance of levelling a K-drive in any reasonable length of time

 

vor einer Stunde schrieb Aldain:

Another problem stems from them being behind a very slow to rank and boring syndicate...the Ventkids are an utter pain to rank up because the races

I kinda forgot that part in my first post, but yes i agree that the grinding for standing and leveling the K-Drives ist just too much (also said that in another reply).

I added this 2 points to my solution-part:

  • let us level our K-Drives like we can level Archwings and Warframes
  • let us gain standing for VentKids more efficient and maybe also passive with equipped sigils on our Warframe like we can for the regular syndicates

 

I dont think that we need to remove leveling completly from the whole K-Drive-section, but if there would be useful stuff in the syndicate and if K-Drives would actually be useful in itself, i think that less people would complain about grinding for this, especially if the grinding is less tedious.

 

vor 46 Minuten schrieb Elessara1:

Since this didn't work they're now talking about nerfing Itzal which will neither make nor encourage people to use the K-drives.  

 

vor 15 Minuten schrieb (PS4)Riko_113:

They're nerfing Itzal because of the movement advantage. I can beat a K-drive in my sleep with my Zenurik+Naramon Waybounds while Void Dashing. Are they nerfing those next?

I dont know if they will go that far and ill doubt it (for the near future atleast^^), but the possibility exists.

Thats partially why i am making this suggestion. I want to provide some ideas on how to make more players use something else than Itzal. I agree with the everyone who said that Itzal is not the reason why K-Drives havent been a success, K-Drives themselves dont provide enough reasons to use them and the massive grind just adds up to that fact.

. And robotwars7 found some good words for that:

vor 37 Minuten schrieb (PS4)robotwars7:

the "cool factor" of this alone should be enough to consider it's inclusion, since that's what K-drives were supposed to be "the cooler way to travel". wouldn't hurt to add a few missions that ask the player to use K-Drives as well.

 

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5 minutes ago, DreisterDino said:

I kinda forgot that part in my first post, but yes i agree that the grinding for standing and leveling the K-Drives ist just too much (also said that in another reply).

Oh right I forgot to mention that the Ventkids also shouldn't suffer from a daily cap imo, as they provide nothing other than K-Drive parts, mods and cosmetic blueprints (which items need to be farmed for anyway so the time to make them is the same), that way if a player wants to just sit back and farm Ventkid standing for a day to unlock all the things and be done with it they can.

Of all the syndicates Ventkids have the least reason to be under the daily cap because they offer no tangible rewards (unless K-Drive mods are tradable, but that's fixable by making them untradable) unlike Fortuna, Cetus etc.

Edited by Aldain
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2 hours ago, Chewarette said:

We don't need to make them viable. They need to be like Syandanas, use them if you want to, or don't.

Remove the freaking mastery points from that abomination. KDrives are the only non-combat stuff which award MR points, that's as stupid as putting MR points behind Syandanas and Accessories.

As long as they exist, I won't even bother anymore with MR grinding, as I know I'm locked out of 24k (?) unreachable Mastery points.

 

2 hours ago, Elessara1 said:

Given that K-Drives are essentially cosmetic there should be no reason the devs should force people to use them.  It would be like forcing people to use syndanas and sugatras (to continue the comparison from above).  If few people like them and they aren't being used then DE should just consider it a failed experiment and move on.

 

I agree - I'm not trying to threadcrap, but I think the pursuit of "make K-Drives viable" is the wrong approach. K-Drives are like floofs (or, as mentioned, syandanas), or the Ludoplex - they're toys. Fun things to goof around on, but not something essential. And they should never have involved Mastery, a syndicate, or anything like that.

I get that the devs put a lot of time and heart into making K-Drives a thing, but I think in this case, they should think hard about just letting it go. Leave them where they are, and don't fiddle with other things to try to make K-Drives happen. 

Notably: the easiest way to make K-Drives happen is to disable Archwing use in the Orb Vallis. Problem solved. Other problems created, but you'll have people riding their k-drives.

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K-Drive 2.0 - How to make players *want to* use them

ftfy ❤️

Srsly tho I think my biggest issue with K-Drives is the fact that I just don't have time for them. They are a really nifty distraction and when Fortuna launched the thing I loved the most was K-Drives. Because while they where a stupid fun distraction from the grind. After that wore off it was back to the grindmines and you need to handle those as efficiently as possible if you want to progress at a reasonable pace. 

I don't think making them their own grind (essentially turning them into ground AW 2.0) is going to fix the problem with K-Drives. Kdrives will never be better than AW for getting the job done because 98% of getting the job done in these giant open world sprawls is getting from Point A to point B as efficiently as possible so you can..... actually get the job done. K-Drives can never do that, especially in mountanous regions where flying over the mountain is now and always will be the most efficient path even if they nerf the Itzal into the ground in a vein attempt to grief us into using K-Drives.

I really don't think adding more complexity to K-Drives (while interesting) solves the fundamental problem with K-Drives.  They will just never be as efficient as Archwing as all K-Drives bring to the table is extending your mission time by 5-10min of meaningless travel time. 

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I just thought of something amazing. Imagine if there were some sort of train that we could chase around various landscape with the k drive.  Too fast for foot Chase too slow for archwing. Perfect speed to chase while on k drive. Unlock weapons while on k drive. Simple alt fire brings you into weapons mode. Take your shots. Alt fire back to trick mode. Continue chase.

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If given a choice, I would never use K-drives at all.

 

as was said by another poster, they’re mastery fodder first, a failed experiment second. DE should scrap the syndicate, then move on. 

 

What i want? Fast travel. Make it so that those camps you clear STAY CLEARED. So that I can just fast travel 1k meters instead of NEEDING to use my archwing at all.

 

Regarding how “hyped” people were at tennocon: this is a very small subset of warframe players. They’d be hyped at anything new, let’s be honest. K-drives are garbage. They’re not fun to the majority of the playerbase. I don’t want to play a Tony Hawk game. I want to play Warframe.

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None of it would get me to use them for bounties. I dont want to stand on a board and fight, especially if it removes the powers of my frame. I dont want to traverse on a board because it is limited both vertically and horizontally compared to an archwing.

They are imo nothing but a failed experiment, leave them as is for the people that wanna fiddle with the skater minigame. If I want a good skateboard videogame experience I'll just play one of the Tony Hawk games, even the first one ever released for PS1 is still lightyears better than our K-Drive experience.

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I'm surprised they allowed AW in orb valis. They could've easily come up with a valid reason for the restriction.

I agree with  the posters that day K-drives are just a toy. They don't need to make us use them. 

I use mine occasionally for fun. Leave it at that. You don't always have to satisfy the meta efficiency crowd. 

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What if there was some sort of tunnel system that you could only enter on a K-drive to travel faster than via archwing? It would be a 20 - 30 second mini course with some jumps and rails, and would spit you out of a tunnel entrance / exit nearest to the objective. I think that beats flying in a straight line, and if its faster then people will use it. Plus I think it fits well with the vent kids theme.

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53 minutes ago, mpmaloney said:

What if there was some sort of tunnel system that you could only enter on a K-drive to travel faster than via archwing? It would be a 20 - 30 second mini course with some jumps and rails, and would spit you out of a tunnel entrance / exit nearest to the objective. I think that beats flying in a straight line, and if its faster then people will use it. Plus I think it fits well with the vent kids theme.

If the tunnel system had no solid flooring - e.g., was coolant or water or whatever - then K-Drives would be a cool thing to explore. I mean, you could probably archwing into it, but K-Drives would be optimal for a tight tunnel system without stable footing. You'd need a more deliberate dismount though, to hop onto islands or whatever.

I wouldn't object to it, but I think we're all struggling to find the question that K-Drives are the answer to, when it's probabl better to say "hey, they can be fun from time to time, and that's enough." 

Edited by Ham_Grenabe
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Possible changes for K-Drives-

-Give them Fast Travel to areas that you drop a Loc-Pin on once you hit a certain velocity. The Loc-Pins would have a # to indicate which the order for Fast Travel would be OR you can pull up a radial dial to pick which number you want to go to. This would make them faster.

-Make them once you master them as a K-Drive riding vehicle, they can be used as a weapon. LoL.....but seriously, once your board is mastered, it can be used as a weapon such as grinding into a crowd to send them flying OR send the K-Drive slamming into a open world area to detonate on the big enemies such as Eidilons, Spiders, and whatever else you send our way. You can choose to have them become a travel board weapon , melee weapon, or gun weapon. Gives a reason to have more than one board aseach would be one of the 3 types of weapon boards you could have.

-Make the Open Worlds have areas that are only accessed by using K-Drives such as Magnetic Storms or Ice Storms or Fire Storms that Archwings and regular travel will not allow you to get to.  The K-Drives get special shields that allow you to travel to these places and there is no Fast Travel once you Loc-Pin (if that idea was used). This would lead to a quest of some sort as well as finding some long lost crashed ship(s) that created their own colony's.

Got other ideas....but no more time.

 

 

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