Archwing Variety Fix (Itzal Nerf), K-Drive problems

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

4) Add more combat capability to K-Drives. Press a button to switch between trick mode and combat mode. When in combat mode the trick buttons are disabled but you can use your secondary, your melee, and your Warframe abilities from your K-Drive. To dismount switch back to trick mode and use melee as normal. This allows K-Drives to effectively become combat mounts far better than Archwings and gives them a purpose even if they're not built for travel.

I am down for K drive buffs but why this restriction? Weaving combat into tricks, say shooting some corpus as you hang upside down on OV, slashing someone as you blitz past them with a sword calvary charge style or hosing down a circle of grineer in PoE as you do a trick spin seems like a pretty neat way to get Kdrive EXP and Standing, along with killing enemies in style.

There are people who love rule of cool things...

Edited April 14, 2019 by Guest

[(NSW)Sniperfox47]

Just now, Datam4ss said:

I am down for K drive buffs but why this restriction? Weaving combat into tricks, say shooting some corpus as you hang upside down on OV, slashing someone as you blitz past them with a sword calvary charge style or hosing down a circle of grineer in PoE as you do a trick spin seems like a pretty neat way to get Kdrive EXP and Standing, along with killing enemies in style.

Because Console. There's simply not enough buttons. Aim and Fire are already used for tricks which would prevent them from also being used to aim and fire. There's not really any good options to reassign the trick buttons to that wouldn't interfere with other stuff in the heat of combat.

[vitreloy]

DE thought that the reason player choose to use Itzal is because of that brink ability, which I disagree. The main reason most people want to use Itzal is because of Cosmic Crush. And the reason why people want Cosmic Crush is because of the problem DE create in the first place, you have to touch the eidolon's loot in order to get them. Once in a while on my eidolon hunt, I get team mate usually without Itzal miss the eidolon shard that require to summon the 2nd or 3rd eidolon and he can't find the location where the loot drop after he go to the alter, he has no choice but to leave the game so that the rest of us can continue the hunt. This problem also bring over to profit taker and exploiter hunt, especially exploiter hunt which only have a brief moment to get the loot before it blow up and destroy everything.

So why people stick to Itzal? The most obvious reason is the lack of a quick way to switch archwing, loadout only work on warframe and companion. The same reason is also apply to operator and amp, that is why you seldom see people switch focus, operator's arcane and amp, most people always stick to the same focus, operator arcane and amp because switching them is troublesome and most often forget to switch back when necessary. So I am quite sure nerf brink will never force player to use other archwing more. One thing for sure, I will stick to Itzal even DE take away brink from Itzal, partly due to I always forget to switch back to Itzal when I use other archwing and feel uncomfortable without Cosmic Crush during eidolon hunt.

There is one more reason I like Itzal is because of the instant stop by pressing 2. Archwing is always a pain in the ass when you want to stop and there is some weird physic where by if you turn opposite direction while flying, you will immediate go opposite direction at full speed, this is something I never get use to and hope I will never get use to because it might be danger in real life.

Now back to the question, why some loot need player to touch it in order to get it and why some loot need to press x to pick it up. Is that really necessary?

Edited April 14, 2019 by vitreloy

[Robolaser]

Bad game design -> players use what tool they have to overcome the issues -> devs removes tools instead of fixing issues.

[Oreades]

To be honest Cosmic Crush is pretty much why I picked up the Itzal a long long long time before PoE was even a Twinkle in a Tennocons eye. Expressly because Looting in AW was so miserable. And since the Itzal was made out of tissue paper it's the reason I actually invested some time/effort into building it out so it wasn't quite so squish. 

It wasn't even until PoE that I really even started using Blink. Even then my base power reserves are so low that I don't get too far before I run out of Go Juice and can't be bothered to use it further.

By all means keep Cosmic Crush the way it is but I'd be very happy if there was some kind of AW Vacuum mod equivalent. 

[IntheCoconut]

I didn't even know what the Itzal's other abilities were until reading this. I just use the first ability to zip around 😅 I built it because I always showed up late to bounties in the Orb Vallis with my Odanata, but not anymore!

[peterc3]

People use Blink to ignore most of the open world zones. I really don't think you can just disagree with something DE has the metrics for.

[Lutesque]

2 hours ago, vitreloy said:

This problem also bring over to profit taker and exploiter hunt, especially exploiter hunt which only have a brief moment to get the loot before it blow up and destroy everything.

What ? :O !!!!

2 hours ago, vitreloy said:

Now back to the question, why some loot need player to touch it in order to get it and why some loot need to press x to pick it up. Is that really necessary?

Remember The Universal Vacuum Fiasco ? Yeah thT one was stupid. Also loot mods not allowing Atlas to pick up Chrystal Meth....

Also why are the bulk of loot lockers permanently locked in every mission ? I mean I don't even open them anymore but why ? 

Why is DE always hamstringing our ability to loot S#&$.

32 minutes ago, Oreades said:

To be honest Cosmic Crush is pretty much why I picked up the Itzal a long long long time before PoE was even a Twinkle in a Tennocons eye.

I remember doing Archwing Interception where everyone was using Itzal but me... so someone picked by accident.  I asked him to mark but he couldn't find the invisble sparkly thing in all the chaos....so he got a super rare drop and the rest of us got nothing.

It goes without saying I ALWAYS USE ITZAL NOW !!!

24 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

People use Blink to ignore most of the open world zones. I really don't think you can just disagree with something DE has the metrics for.

You mean those gigantic spaces chock ful of nothing ?

[(NSW)Katsuro]

DE wants player choice and balance between archwing even though in order to use blink you need atleast full energy to blitz the entire map which never happens anyway by my personal experience.

Edited April 14, 2019 by (NSW)Katsuro

[(NSW)Katsuro]

As long as they replace it with something like Volt speed which can be shared then its no big deal

[Hypernaut1]

I liked it when I could pair an AW with my Warframe load outs. I don't know why they removed that feature. 

It should be just like focus schools.

[(PSN)chubbslawson]

1 hour ago, peterc3 said:

People use Blink to ignore most of the open world zones. I really don't think you can just disagree with something DE has the metrics for.

You mean the vast empty spaces

[peterc3]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)chubbslawson said:

You mean the vast empty spaces

Is this supposed to change something? OP asserted DE missed the reason people were overly picking Itzal. I said they didn't miss anything. OP can't know that and DE has actual data to work off of.

[(PSN)JordanMalicious]

I'd rather DE not touch Itzal at all...it's the only archwing I've put time and thought into.  If they're noticing a problem with it being the most used for a specific few reasons, maybe make the others better instead of crippling the one that's popular.

[Kingsmount]

Well,  the main reason people use Itzal is because all wings are dogturd for anything other than getting from point A to point B.  Itzal is the best at that,  and so it is used.  Otherwise enemies swat you out of the sky every 10 seconds and do unavoidable damage from a mile away.   They crippled archwings,  and surprisepikachu.jpg when nobody wants to use them.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

I swear all DE has to do is allow K-drives to see gem locations and animal poop and now they have a purpose...

[(XBOX)D00M INCARNATE]

I picked up Itzal because I was told it was the fastest archwing. I don't care if that's because of base movement speed or the Blink ability, I just want to get around quickly.

[(PSN)Zero_029]

All DE has to do is block Archwing powers in Open World maps. Done. Problem solved.

That would keep the Archwings balanced, require no rework, & then the only reason people will still use Itzal is because it's the fastest Archwing (it is the Rogue Archwing afterall).

Players will still use Archwing more than K-Drives, & Itzal will still be top pick.

They need to design better Archwing content before they start nerfing due to what is honestly NON-Archwing content.

[zoffmode]

32 minutes ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

All DE has to do is block Archwing powers in Open World maps. Done. Problem solved.

That would keep the Archwings balanced, require no rework, & then the only reason people will still use Itzal is because it's the fastest Archwing (it is the Rogue Archwing afterall).

Players will still use Archwing more than K-Drives, & Itzal will still be top pick.

They need to design better Archwing content before they start nerfing due to what is honestly NON-Archwing content.

You literally just missed the entire point of the thread. You need the Cosmic Crush. Blocking it outright is removing tools for sake of making the game more annoying to play.

Edited April 15, 2019 by zoffmode

[trst]

If I'm not mistaken the whole argument was specifically about the Itzal being the only Archwing worth using because of Blink. The discussion was about nerfing Itzal because of the viability of the other Archwings, nothing else.

Saying people prefer the Itzal because of Crush only strengthens their reasons for nerfing it. In addition to all of that even without Blink or Crush the Itzal still has the highest base speed meaning it's still better than every Archwing.

 

Ultimately nerfing the Itzal at all solves several issues: viability of other Archwings, players instantly skipping over the entirety of the open world zones (this is a problem to the devs), and players who don't have the Itzal getting left behind in pubs.

While the problems introduced by nerfing it would only be in making travel time in these areas longer.

 

Now yes there are other solutions to the problem besides nerfing the Itzal but to solve all these issues we'd at least need: Archwing combat improved in general and improving the "empty" space in these zones. But the problem here is that both of these solutions aren't easy to do.

Archwing content can't be touched at all until Railjack because it'll all get changed then anyways and the enemies methods of fighting us in Archwing needs to be heavily overhauled. The instant downing missiles would need to go but then how do enemies fight us?

And making it more worthwhile to not travel via Archwing wouldn't solve much as people would still only want to get to the next bounty objective.

 

The real problem is that DE allowed Archwing in the open world zones in the first place. If we had K-Drives from the start with PoE and couldn't use Archwings this would have never been a problem.

[(PSN)DARK_WIZARD999]

The only reason I whip archwing out is to go fast across big empty spaces of nothing. That's it. And they keep trying to slow you down instead of speed everything else up. It's a terrible decision, grounded it in a broken mentality. Almost spiteful towards the customer. After seeing the backlash you think they would have backed up immediately. 

[Brorelia]

3 hours ago, (PS4)JordanMalicious said:

I'd rather DE not touch Itzal at all...it's the only archwing I've put time and thought into.  If they're noticing a problem with it being the most used for a specific few reasons, maybe make the others better instead of crippling the one that's popular.

The others are not lacking power. They are lacking a reason to use their power.

[Xzorn]

Fixing the symptom instead of the problem is pretty typical really.

I could probably right an entire page on all the things that came from a cascade of symptom blocking due to enemy exponential damage scaling.

All leading the the uncontrollable mess we have today. Itzal is used because Archwing has been limited to travel thus the best travel Archwing wins. You could remove Blink entirely and Itzal is still the fastest Archwing so nothing changes. The viability of other options doesn't improve because travel remains the only option.

[(XBOX)FISTO ROBOT0]

I don’t really see an issue with the Itzel being so good at getting around. That’s the players choice. Once Railjack comes out and the combat based archwings are more viable, then people will use those, if you want to get around faster in the plains, then you use the Itzel, if you want to run fast, you use volt. It’s simple to me.

[Lysithea.Nya]

Let's just face it.

1. K-drives are useless and poorly designed

2. Archwing is more comfortable to use

3. Itzal is the only goodly designed one that has both blink and vacuum.

Solution would be to add vacuum-like thing as paasive or mod to every archwing, greatly buff other archwing speeds and delete k-drives because they are nothing but mr fodder