Archwing Variety Fix (Itzal Nerf), K-Drive problems

[zoffmode]

K-Drives are moddable. Easy fix is release non crap mods to K-Drives. Oh crap a Cosmic Crush Vacuum ability on a K-Drive by either number or just doing a trick. Don't see why they also can't do some teleport or quick travel mod on K-Drives either. 

Also yeah big Vacuum on Archwing. Most issues forcing you to use Itzal are gone then.

[Sojufueled]

I think people use Itzal because there is no reason to use anything else. The damaging abilties of archwings are pitiful compared to shooting and the archwing runs quickly out of energy in any case. So, the archwing is relegated to transportation and Itzal does that best. Give me a reason to want to fight in my archwing and I will consider the others.

 

If Itzal gets nerfed but is still even 1 percent better at getting around it is still the best the way things stand.

[Lutesque]

5 hours ago, (PS4)FriendSharkey said:

I swear all DE has to do is allow K-drives to see gem locations and animal poop and now they have a purpose...

Yeah now that Thumpers and The Exploiter are a thing only nightwave can make me Mine or fish now.

 

[VanFanel1980mx]

12 hours ago, vitreloy said:

The main reason most people want to use Itzal is because of Cosmic Crush. And the reason why people want Cosmic Crush is because of the problem DE create in the first place

Just say it, univac, these problems always go to univac again and again.

[Lutesque]

27 minutes ago, VanFanel1980mx said:

Just say it, univac, these problems always go to univac again and again.

Yes... UNIVERSAL COSMIC CRUSH !!!

[VanFanel1980mx]

11 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

Yes... UNIVERSAL COSMIC CRUSH !!!

When you think about it, why are there items that can't even be picked up by regular vacuum? is that one of the many ways DE wants us to slow down?

[TheGreenFellow]

Archwings are a case where other archwings should be brought up to Itzal's level, not the other way around. Nobody ever keeps using Odonata after building another Archwing, and nobody ever uses Elytron (can't even kill level 30 enemies, slow-moving abilities, no damage scaling, should be obvious as to why).

[Im_a_Turtle]

52 minutes ago, TheGreenFellow said:

Archwings are a case where other archwings should be brought up to Itzal's level, not the other way around. Nobody ever keeps using Odonata after building another Archwing, and nobody ever uses Elytron (can't even kill level 30 enemies, slow-moving abilities, no damage scaling, should be obvious as to why).

Indeed, it's not like Archwing is already on it's last legs in terms of popularity among the community. Heck there are rarely any rounds for archwing missions to the point most people just go solo or ignore them completely unless necessary. The best thing for them to do is to nerf it some more, therefore irritating the community enough to the point of being flooded with complaints about the archwings and forcing them to revamp it to a working state.

[Psianide73]

I tend to use Itzal for Cosmic Crush too, and wouldn't worry if Blink was nerfed/removed.

If there was a universal Archwing mod that pulled in loot, I'd definitely use other Wings.

[Marvelous_A]

DE: K we will nerf Itzal more, nerfing Cosmic Crush too this time but not making other Archwings and K-drives useful

[(XBOX)Hyperion Rexx]

Let's be honest, nerfing blink is a stupid idea that will do nothing but annoy almost the entire player base.

If I'm doing bounties I want to get around as fast as possible.  I don't go for a picnic and to take in the view.

[Toran]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb Sojufueled:

I think people use Itzal because there is no reason to use anything else. The damaging abilties of archwings are pitiful compared to shooting and the archwing runs quickly out of energy in any case. So, the archwing is relegated to transportation and Itzal does that best. Give me a reason to want to fight in my archwing and I will consider the others.

 

If Itzal gets nerfed but is still even 1 percent better at getting around it is still the best the way things stand.

That's exactly the point! Nobody uses Archwing in PoE/Fortuna but for movement and for that we use the most efficient, of course. 

The real reason, beating missions too fast, is hidden behind the fake argument of boosting diversity with a nerf of Itzal's blink...bs.

The planned nerf tells a lot about Archwings too. Itzal's original purpose for blink was the idea to have fast first reaction force in Archwing Interception. But since nobody plays that stuff no longer, anyway - why not nerf it?

[Lakais]

16 hours ago, (PS4)JordanMalicious said:

I'd rather DE not touch Itzal at all...it's the only archwing I've put time and thought into.  If they're noticing a problem with it being the most used for a specific few reasons, maybe make the others better instead of crippling the one that's popular.

ALL the archwings need tweaks or full on reworks. Itzal included. Personally, I have used it very little, mastery mostly. But as for Blink I think what DE should do is put in team synergy and make it a charge ability. Where the longer you charge, the further you teleport AND you leave behind a portal much like Nova can. So this speed advantage is something the whole squad can get in on and it's not so spammy. Sometimes, nerfs are needed. Odonata is in desperate need of a full kit rework and Elytron isn't far behind. Of all the wings, Amesha is the only one I really can't think of anything particular to improve on because of the role and the set of abilities on it. 

As for general looting, I agree. AW's have a passive vacuum that was ported over to normal gameplay too (it has a range of like 1 meter). For eidolons in particular, I am wondering why this loot doesn't just get passively given to us, rather then us having to loot it. 

[zoffmode]

20 minutes ago, Majestic-scrub said:

they're devs, they know every inch of this game and they know very well why we use blink, they just dont like it for they're own twisted reasons.

Realistically, game devs often don't have much time to play the game cause work is brutal and then there's family and just life... And developing one part of the game doesn't mean you know everything about it cause it's not just one dev. There are multitude of times when dev decisions for their games are just plain out wrong and misinformed. 

[ZelUrk]

how about making more archwing content, making other archwings viable

[VincentHelmic]

I 100% use Itzal because of its Blink ability, in combination with its overall fastest speed.  I will use any Archwing that is the fastest, because that's the current role and purpose of using Archwings in the game.  I avoid Archwing missions as much as possible as they're a mess of bouncing into walls or sitting still and passively shooting stuff rather than zipping around like a fighter pilot dogfighting and actually using the mobility to do something interesting, so 99% of what was intended to set them apart don't matter.  People use Archwings for the open world and when they're forced to farm resources that drop only in Archwing missions.

Cosmic Crush is also very useful, of course, but it being nerfed/removed wouldn't stop me from using Itzal.

The problem is that Itzal's abilities are basically what all Archwings should be anyways.  Blink feels good because it allows us to have these wide open maps without the boring bits of having a wide open map, namely having to actually walk everywhere.  And I still think Blink and Cosmic Crush should be completely removed.

I want them removed because I want Cosmic Crush to be replaced with a built-in, wide range Vacuum on all Archwings, by default.  I want Blink removed because I want the speeds of Arcwings to be adjusted so that they can have different "modes" of flight that can be easily swapped between: jetpack-like movement with no momentum when you just WASD + space/control, an Itzal-like max speed when holding shift (what we'd do now by holding shift+space), and shift+space moving so quickly it's almost as good as Blink.  All without needing to eat energy pizzas to fuel basic transversal abilities in an awkward, unergonomic keybinding.  Again, for all Archwings.

This seems to keep coming up.  A sentinel or Archwing or whatever will be specialized in some task that is what we'd expect out of every choice, and so long it's the specialist none of hte other choices are permitted to "intrude" upon its specialty.  Remember how Carrier was the only sentinel anyone used because Vacuum was its schtick?  Anyone miss that?  Me neither.  Itzal is the Carrier of Archwings.  There should be no Archwing whose specialty is speed; all of them need to be equally fast in order to be equally viable in the open world, at least while in atmosphere.  Itzal can be reworked to focus more on the stealth fighter theme without hogging all the speed stuff, just as Carrier turned out just fine being an ammo carrier instead of hogging Vacuum.

I'd actually be just fine with all Archwings losing all of their abilities in atmosphere, because they're all utterly useless except in extremely niche scenarios with exceedingly stubborn players who don't have access to the superior Warframe alternative.  Let them just be fancy fun jetpacks, similar to how K-drives don't really have any meaningful differences between them, and only let their differences come out for actual dedicated Archwing missions.  Nobody uses anything but Blink and Cosmic Crush, so once those are just built-in features of Archwings we're not going to need the rest.  Pick what looks cool, or just keep what you usually use for Archwing misisons equipped all the time without worrying if you'll forget to switch back to your open world setup.

It's all kind of a moot conversation right now anyways, though, since the whole thing is going to be so dramatically overhauled with Railjack.  It's hard to make definitive suggestions when things may change dramatically anyways.

Edited April 15, 2019 by VincentHelmic

[(PSN)Zero_029]

19 hours ago, zoffmode said:

You literally just missed the entire point of the thread. You need the Cosmic Crush. Blocking it outright is removing tools for sake of making the game more annoying to play.

I didn't miss it. I just posted an unpopular response.

The fact is...the Nerf won't stop with Blink.

Right now, Blink is the Devs focus, but then people will STILL mainly use Itzal due to Cosmic Crush, so that will get nerfed.

Then players will move over to Amesha because the Amesha's #2 can absorb & negate many Eidolon & Orb attacks (even protect you from the Orb's Nuke/Explosion.) So that will get nerfed.

The Devs did NOT think to have Atmosphere stats and/or limitations for Archwings. As a result many Archwing Abilities are having unexpected impacts on Landscape/Open World gameplay.

With Railjack en route the last thing we need is Archwings (which already needs work as their gameplay mode is lackluster) being underpowered because they've nerfed into the ground due to gameplay where they were originally meant to be a glorified taxi/mount.

Blink is incredibly useful in Archwing missions, but now it's being nerfed or removed be cause of non-archwing content. That is NOT right.

I'd rather have abilities disabled in one mode than lose them for their intended gameplay mode.

Edit:

Essentially, I'm considering the long term ramifications & making a suggestion to prevent future harm.

Right now, Itzal is top Archwing to be nerfed hard across the board as all 4 of its abilities are strong, followed by Amesha which also has 4 strong abilities, then the Odonata, & lastly what little strength the Elytron has left since already got nerfed due PoE because it's nuke cleared the entire plains of Grineer, life in general, & the trivialized Plague Star (which was LOVELY but...nope DE wants the Grineer harassing us every 3 seconds).

Now its lackluster as hell in Archwing missions.

Essentially, the non-archwing missions are now dictating how Archwings function & perform. Am I the only one seeing the issue with this?

I know not everyone likes Archwing but this will effect Railjack as Archwing is a big chunk of that mode.

Edited April 15, 2019 by (PS4)Zero_029

[Tinklzs]

On 2019-04-14 at 12:09 AM, HatedByLifeItself said:

If you make all other archwings super fast, then the tankiest/highest dps archwing will be used more and Itzal will never be used, that does not fix the problem. Also something that bothers me about this nerf is... what about everything else ? 

         Best survival endless frames :Octavia/Ivara/Ash

         Best non-arbitration interception : Nyx/Ivara/Nidus

         Best exterminate frame : Ember(low level) / Saryn / Equinox / Mesa

         Best defense frame : Limbo/Frost/Khora/Garaa

         Best index frames : Garaa/ Rhino / Mesa 

         Best rescue frame : Limbo

         Best farm frame : Nekros/Hydro/Khora/Speed Nova

         Best eido/exploiter frames : Chroma/Trinity/Volt/Oberon/Harrow

So why pick other frames like Atlas/Banshee/Baruuk/Excalibur/Garuda/Hildryn/Loki/Mag/Mirage/Revenant/Titania/Wukong/Zephyr ? 

For example for eidolons, if you pick anything other than what is meta (Atlas for ex, or garuda or anything ) you don't optimize your clearing time. For farming why always go at least with 1 nekros and speedva . For exploiter why spam chroma/octavia . With all the frames that are underpowered Itzal is the issue ? Hell who cares about Itzal nerf for Railjack when even Steve said he didn't like railjack, for anything there is a "Best" thing to pick, always, you cannot create a perfect world. Now my question is ---- why do people stick pick those useless frames (atlas etc..), simple : they pick them because they love them. Archwings do not create any love, you don't "Like" an archwing you just use the most potent one, and that will always be the case, so nerfing Itzal will never change that fact. Your point is that making every archwing as fast as Itzal is a fix, well no because other archwings have what Itzal doesn't have now which is survivability/damage, so do we even nerf them now to make all archwings do same damage/ have same survivability and same speed ? This is kinda ridiculous , some weapons in this game suck, would you use a Furis to go to a secondary only sortie ? Hell no , we always choose what is best to do things fast and efficiently , there is no fix to that, a Slash weapon will always be better than a Impact one, period, i feel like this hate towards Itzal isn't justified by Scott, he just said "I'm gonna nerf the S#&$ out of that" because "it removes player's choice", when he said that you could see that Rebecca was not agreeing with him, neither Steve was, or any other member, i don't get why hate Itzal so much or why NEVER anyone has posted before concerning itzal in open worlds but now that k-drives are more obsolete and Scott began the subject, people would like this to change... For me this is just not justified, i will always pick the best choice given to me, and IF I FIND SOMETHING FUN , i use it,and you know what i find the least fun ? Spending 20minutes going through empty landscapes when i am not using the best choice given to me.

Paragraphs !  I do agree though, hoping that they don't just nerf itzal, but instead if they do mess with it, give it something unique and fun, or recognize what is 'wrong' with the others and just bring them up to par.

 

I really wish, as I've said before, that they'd give an alternative flight mode for K=Drives, I want to be on my own solar surfer...

 

They have THE PERFECT opportunity to make K-Drives competitive with Itzal and helluvalot of fun. I hope ONE DAY DE will deliver and make K-Drives more than a gimmick.

[TheJagji]

I would prefer them to just remove the AWings from the open worlds, and then bring in K-Drives on the plans. Add a prime speed mod for K-drives so you have a mod people can get to make them as fast as the AWings, and your one. 

[(PSN)Mono-Pop]

2 hours ago, Tinklzs said:

Paragraphs !  I do agree though, hoping that they don't just nerf itzal, but instead if they do mess with it, give it something unique and fun, or recognize what is 'wrong' with the others and just bring them up to par.

 

I really wish, as I've said before, that they'd give an alternative flight mode for K=Drives, I want to be on my own solar surfer...

 

They have THE PERFECT opportunity to make K-Drives competitive with Itzal and helluvalot of fun. I hope ONE DAY DE will deliver and make K-Drives more than a gimmick.

What if K-drives could glide while airborne? They can already get some pretty good height out of their jumps.

Maybe if they made it so you could hold a button to glide while airborne that could be really cool. Gradually descend while you rapidly accelerate.

They still wouldn’t be as fast as archwing but AW users wouldn’t have to wait two minutes for their K-drive friends to catch up xD

[(XBOX)Fat Gregory]

You’re going to nerf Itzal because it’s basically the end all be all of getting around the open world quickly...

As my friend says “If it ain’t Itzal, it ain’t Sh*tzal.”


But what about it being the only Archwing that can effectively vacuum?

Y’all mofos just need to hurry up and release the true universal vacuum already.


That’s right. It’s a Universal Vacuum thread. Belated April Fools?

But seriously, stop dragging your feet and just make Vacuum a passive feature completely unrelated to mods or equipment.

Have the range of the vacuum be adjustable in settings, for those who like to save energy orbs or ammo for when they really need them.

Edit: semi-misleading title aside, I’m serious. Itzal isn’t just overused because of Blink.

Cosmic Crush = Only Vacuum for Archwing.

Edited April 16, 2019 by (XB1)Fat Gregory
addendum

[(XBOX)Shodian]

[(XBOX)Fat Gregory]

Oh, goody. My thread was cannibalized.

Fun.

I’m sure my concerns about Cosmic Crush being the only Vacuum option available for Archwings won’t be completely overlooked amongst all the people pissing their pants over Blink’s upcoming nerf.

God, I hate this forum’s moderators. 🙄

[Reisbig2009]

If they nerf the Itzal then what are they going to do? The Itzal is meant to be quick and snappy with some space-time abilities. Perhaps they should actually focus on Archwing as a whole, instead of one of them specifically. Also, K-Drives are an absolute joke for traversing the open world. That system needs looked at as well, and it was just implemented. Testing systems, thoroughly, before implementing them in-game would be a good idea as well.

[(PSN)chris1pat8twins]

How is nerfing the one thing that makes itzal useful, suppose to make the other archwings useful?

That’s like someone saying “we should nerf Volt cause his second ability makes all the other warframes look so slow”.

How about we actually BUFF the other archwings and make their destructive properties more... destructive... in open world maps?

I wouldn’t mind using other arch wings if they were actually useful in the open world maps. But they are not. Their only use, is traveling. And guess what? The Itzal was designed for better/faster traveling. 

The other thing is itzal’s third ability that pulls all nearby items to it. Would be nice if there was some archwing Vacuum mod that made the magnetic pull of resources reach much further on archwings. Itzal would still be the go to for loot farming but at least the rest of them aren’t left to dry. 

People use Itzal more because traveling and arch-guns are the only things that seem to matter. The destructive abilities of other archwings are not really destructive at all. They are mostly a waste of energy, especially with the time and effort it takes just to pull the abilities off. Maybe make some derelict vault mods for archwings? Something to boost their power strength. Otherwise they all have the most basic, balanced builds that only the abilities really determine the difference. 

K-Drives are hover boards. Can whiners not see that? So a skate board or electric scooter should be faster than a plane? Or even faster than a car? So should our vehicles be nerfed to go only 20 mph because kids sensitive of their scooters? Sorry to be blunt but that is a very ridiculous excuse to nerf. 

What DE needs to do is make the other archwings, more useful in open world maps. Make it where my odanata prime’s missiles, used for destroying outer space dargyns,  actually blow up the enemies in open world maps. 

For K-Drives, maybe it is some mod or something but maybe DE could add the function of being able to use at least secondaries while on the K-Drives? I’ve been able to ride bikes, scooters, and obviously skate boards with no hands. Many times I’ve had to carry things in my hands. There were times I’ve gotten in fist fights WHILE RIDING. The only catch that I could see with this function is reduced accuracy and maybe slower speeds when aiming and firing weapons. Melees could bring back the basic left right swinging but on the K-Drives. Maybe melees can only be used on one side of the K-Drive and pressing which ever button makes it switch hands. But can only be swung in a single repetitive motion. However the melees could do a lot more damage due to the momentum of the swing caused by the fast movement of the K-Drive. So one swing is all that would be mostly needed for weaker enemies. So K-Drive fans won’t have to give up their need for speed. 

I’m so tired of the insecurities. “Nerf this because it makes me look bad”. I can’t even do what sanctuary onslaught requires of me, which is KILL EVERYTHING, DO NOT RELENT. But noob valkyr fans and useless inaros fans like to whine that my saryn, equinox, ember, banshee, any warframe for that matter powered up by a 206% rhino roar is KILLING EVERYTHING or “taking all the kills” even though that is the objective of the mission. So I have to stop playing or be super bored because somebody else is slow or don’t have a life waiting for them outside of the game? 

People need to stop whining and demanding pointless nerfs. It is getting really old.