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Archwing Variety Fix (Itzal Nerf), K-Drive problems

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I'd rather DE not touch Itzal at all...it's the only archwing I've put time and thought into.  If they're noticing a problem with it being the most used for a specific few reasons, maybe make the others better instead of crippling the one that's popular.

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Well,  the main reason people use Itzal is because all wings are dogturd for anything other than getting from point A to point B.  Itzal is the best at that,  and so it is used.  Otherwise enemies swat you out of the sky every 10 seconds and do unavoidable damage from a mile away.   They crippled archwings,  and surprisepikachu.jpg when nobody wants to use them.

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I picked up Itzal because I was told it was the fastest archwing. I don't care if that's because of base movement speed or the Blink ability, I just want to get around quickly.

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All DE has to do is block Archwing powers in Open World maps. Done. Problem solved.

That would keep the Archwings balanced, require no rework, & then the only reason people will still use Itzal is because it's the fastest Archwing (it is the Rogue Archwing afterall).

Players will still use Archwing more than K-Drives, & Itzal will still be top pick.

They need to design better Archwing content before they start nerfing due to what is honestly NON-Archwing content.

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

All DE has to do is block Archwing powers in Open World maps. Done. Problem solved.

That would keep the Archwings balanced, require no rework, & then the only reason people will still use Itzal is because it's the fastest Archwing (it is the Rogue Archwing afterall).

Players will still use Archwing more than K-Drives, & Itzal will still be top pick.

They need to design better Archwing content before they start nerfing due to what is honestly NON-Archwing content.

You literally just missed the entire point of the thread. You need the Cosmic Crush. Blocking it outright is removing tools for sake of making the game more annoying to play.

Edited by zoffmode
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If I'm not mistaken the whole argument was specifically about the Itzal being the only Archwing worth using because of Blink. The discussion was about nerfing Itzal because of the viability of the other Archwings, nothing else.

Saying people prefer the Itzal because of Crush only strengthens their reasons for nerfing it. In addition to all of that even without Blink or Crush the Itzal still has the highest base speed meaning it's still better than every Archwing.

 

Ultimately nerfing the Itzal at all solves several issues: viability of other Archwings, players instantly skipping over the entirety of the open world zones (this is a problem to the devs), and players who don't have the Itzal getting left behind in pubs.

While the problems introduced by nerfing it would only be in making travel time in these areas longer.

 

Now yes there are other solutions to the problem besides nerfing the Itzal but to solve all these issues we'd at least need: Archwing combat improved in general and improving the "empty" space in these zones. But the problem here is that both of these solutions aren't easy to do.

Archwing content can't be touched at all until Railjack because it'll all get changed then anyways and the enemies methods of fighting us in Archwing needs to be heavily overhauled. The instant downing missiles would need to go but then how do enemies fight us?

And making it more worthwhile to not travel via Archwing wouldn't solve much as people would still only want to get to the next bounty objective.

 

The real problem is that DE allowed Archwing in the open world zones in the first place. If we had K-Drives from the start with PoE and couldn't use Archwings this would have never been a problem.

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The only reason I whip archwing out is to go fast across big empty spaces of nothing. That's it. And they keep trying to slow you down instead of speed everything else up. It's a terrible decision, grounded it in a broken mentality. Almost spiteful towards the customer. After seeing the backlash you think they would have backed up immediately. 

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3 hours ago, (PS4)JordanMalicious said:

I'd rather DE not touch Itzal at all...it's the only archwing I've put time and thought into.  If they're noticing a problem with it being the most used for a specific few reasons, maybe make the others better instead of crippling the one that's popular.

The others are not lacking power. They are lacking a reason to use their power.

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Fixing the symptom instead of the problem is pretty typical really.

I could probably right an entire page on all the things that came from a cascade of symptom blocking due to enemy exponential damage scaling.

All leading the the uncontrollable mess we have today. Itzal is used because Archwing has been limited to travel thus the best travel Archwing wins. You could remove Blink entirely and Itzal is still the fastest Archwing so nothing changes. The viability of other options doesn't improve because travel remains the only option.

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I don’t really see an issue with the Itzel being so good at getting around. That’s the players choice. Once Railjack comes out and the combat based archwings are more viable, then people will use those, if you want to get around faster in the plains, then you use the Itzel, if you want to run fast, you use volt. It’s simple to me.

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Let's just face it.

1. K-drives are useless and poorly designed

2. Archwing is more comfortable to use

3. Itzal is the only goodly designed one that has both blink and vacuum.

Solution would be to add vacuum-like thing as paasive or mod to every archwing, greatly buff other archwing speeds and delete k-drives because they are nothing but mr fodder

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K-Drives are moddable. Easy fix is release non crap mods to K-Drives. Oh crap a Cosmic Crush Vacuum ability on a K-Drive by either number or just doing a trick. Don't see why they also can't do some teleport or quick travel mod on K-Drives either. 

Also yeah big Vacuum on Archwing. Most issues forcing you to use Itzal are gone then.

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I think people use Itzal because there is no reason to use anything else. The damaging abilties of archwings are pitiful compared to shooting and the archwing runs quickly out of energy in any case. So, the archwing is relegated to transportation and Itzal does that best. Give me a reason to want to fight in my archwing and I will consider the others.

 

If Itzal gets nerfed but is still even 1 percent better at getting around it is still the best the way things stand.

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5 hours ago, (PS4)FriendSharkey said:

I swear all DE has to do is allow K-drives to see gem locations and animal poop and now they have a purpose...

Yeah now that Thumpers and The Exploiter are a thing only nightwave can make me Mine or fish now.

 

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12 hours ago, vitreloy said:

The main reason most people want to use Itzal is because of Cosmic Crush. And the reason why people want Cosmic Crush is because of the problem DE create in the first place

Just say it, univac, these problems always go to univac again and again.

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27 minutes ago, VanFanel1980mx said:

Just say it, univac, these problems always go to univac again and again.

Yes... UNIVERSAL COSMIC CRUSH !!!

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11 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

Yes... UNIVERSAL COSMIC CRUSH !!!

When you think about it, why are there items that can't even be picked up by regular vacuum? is that one of the many ways DE wants us to slow down?

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Archwings are a case where other archwings should be brought up to Itzal's level, not the other way around. Nobody ever keeps using Odonata after building another Archwing, and nobody ever uses Elytron (can't even kill level 30 enemies, slow-moving abilities, no damage scaling, should be obvious as to why).

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52 minutes ago, TheGreenFellow said:

Archwings are a case where other archwings should be brought up to Itzal's level, not the other way around. Nobody ever keeps using Odonata after building another Archwing, and nobody ever uses Elytron (can't even kill level 30 enemies, slow-moving abilities, no damage scaling, should be obvious as to why).

Indeed, it's not like Archwing is already on it's last legs in terms of popularity among the community. Heck there are rarely any rounds for archwing missions to the point most people just go solo or ignore them completely unless necessary. The best thing for them to do is to nerf it some more, therefore irritating the community enough to the point of being flooded with complaints about the archwings and forcing them to revamp it to a working state.

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I tend to use Itzal for Cosmic Crush too, and wouldn't worry if Blink was nerfed/removed.

If there was a universal Archwing mod that pulled in loot, I'd definitely use other Wings.

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DE: K we will nerf Itzal more, nerfing Cosmic Crush too this time but not making other Archwings and K-drives useful

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Let's be honest, nerfing blink is a stupid idea that will do nothing but annoy almost the entire player base.

If I'm doing bounties I want to get around as fast as possible.  I don't go for a picnic and to take in the view.

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vor 6 Stunden schrieb Sojufueled:

I think people use Itzal because there is no reason to use anything else. The damaging abilties of archwings are pitiful compared to shooting and the archwing runs quickly out of energy in any case. So, the archwing is relegated to transportation and Itzal does that best. Give me a reason to want to fight in my archwing and I will consider the others.

 

If Itzal gets nerfed but is still even 1 percent better at getting around it is still the best the way things stand.

That's exactly the point! Nobody uses Archwing in PoE/Fortuna but for movement and for that we use the most efficient, of course. 

The real reason, beating missions too fast, is hidden behind the fake argument of boosting diversity with a nerf of Itzal's blink...bs.

The planned nerf tells a lot about Archwings too. Itzal's original purpose for blink was the idea to have fast first reaction force in Archwing Interception. But since nobody plays that stuff no longer, anyway - why not nerf it?

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16 hours ago, (PS4)JordanMalicious said:

I'd rather DE not touch Itzal at all...it's the only archwing I've put time and thought into.  If they're noticing a problem with it being the most used for a specific few reasons, maybe make the others better instead of crippling the one that's popular.

ALL the archwings need tweaks or full on reworks. Itzal included. Personally, I have used it very little, mastery mostly. But as for Blink I think what DE should do is put in team synergy and make it a charge ability. Where the longer you charge, the further you teleport AND you leave behind a portal much like Nova can. So this speed advantage is something the whole squad can get in on and it's not so spammy. Sometimes, nerfs are needed. Odonata is in desperate need of a full kit rework and Elytron isn't far behind. Of all the wings, Amesha is the only one I really can't think of anything particular to improve on because of the role and the set of abilities on it. 

As for general looting, I agree. AW's have a passive vacuum that was ported over to normal gameplay too (it has a range of like 1 meter). For eidolons in particular, I am wondering why this loot doesn't just get passively given to us, rather then us having to loot it. 

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