Archwing Variety Fix (Itzal Nerf), K-Drive problems

[SnowWarFr]

On ‎2019‎-‎04‎-‎05 at 2:05 PM, Lion said:

Scott has made it clear he wants to nerf Itzal because K-Drive sucks.

He nerfed it by making the archwings more powerful.So much for fixing K-Drives...

[Grav_Starstrider]

That Ripline-like ability better be really good, because it seems obvious that the universal archwing blink won't be as good as the previous Itzal Blink. I kinda hate Ripline on Valkyr, tbh, because it's so useless for lateral movement and you also can't spiderman/tarzan around using the line like an anchor to swing from. It'll be amazing if it allows the Itzal to round corners and accumulate speed, if it basically stops you in your tracks to give you a pitiful boost forward, like it does for Valkyr, I'll kinda wanna riot. Doesn't sound *NEARLY* as fun, imo, as my chargeable longer-distance blinks that you can make an empowered archmelee strike.

[Grav_Starstrider]

Necro to remind DE that we have 38 pages of people offering them feedback, begging them to make sure that Itzal doesn't end up with a significant nerf. Here's a thought: If Itzal's Blink is getting taken from Itzal's kit and being given to all of the Archwings universally (forward-dodge-roll style?), give Archwings some passive abilities like Warframes, where the Itzal gets the Blinks on a smaller cooldown, or for more distance. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with!

[FrostDragoon]

On 2019-04-05 at 12:07 PM, Purrfessor said:

its not the fact kdrive sucks  its the fact any other archwing and kdrives sucks compared to the itzal  specialy movement wise

I think it's fine that Itzal has something that makes it good. The problem is that the others don't. If you nerf Itzal, then all the archwings and K-drives suck.

[Grav_Starstrider]

On 2019-09-25 at 10:03 PM, FrostDragoon said:

I think it's fine that Itzal has something that makes it good. The problem is that the others don't. If you nerf Itzal, then all the archwings and K-drives suck.

Yeah that's definitely a valid point a lot of people have brought up. At the end of the day, different people have different objectives, but a lot of people value speed really quite highly, so those users will gravitate towards the fastest option, the Itzal that bypasses terrain AND space itself. Not even mentioning the fact that it has a vacuum where other archwings require you to scrape against the ground or nosedive directly into any drops they want. I'd say, and others in the thread previously, have said: "make all archwings a valid overworld combat option" (by which I mean fix the one-shot archwing killers to be avoidable with skill or with ability usage, and make it so that Itzal's niche is speed while the other archwings may actually be better equipped to resolve bounties than it, so you're trading traversal speed for speed/ease of completion of the objectives), and "make K-Drives valid traversal options" (give them additional/varied/improved traversal AND combat mechanics [whether k-drive specific, or allowing Warframe Abilities to persist upon mounting or castable while riding, and/or allowing secondary weapon use, or smooth transitions into melee combat, etc], and reduce the distance between bounties, so that it's reasonable to just hop on and hop off, since you aren't having to wind around 5 mountains to get to your objective). It's definitely worth noting that if people are overwhelmingly choosing the Itzal because it's fast, nerfing it's speed is just inherently going to piss that majority of people off.

[FrostDragoon]

Elytron, if built up, can be good for certain bounties, actually, but again everything is so extremely niche compared to the general utility that Itzal's 1 and 3 offer.

[Scar.brother.help.me]

1. K-krive is slow as a snail (even with +20% mod there is no speed)

2. K-drive launcher is too damn slow and looses momentum (if I could bullet jump, pull it out with a blink of an eye on the fly and continue falling the same direction and just go on riding as I land, same to dismounting, just drop the thing off or launch it as a rocket to the target and keep the momentum, be able to bullet-jump)

3. It should move much move freely and hover better above small obstacles (ideally have an optional assist to try to move around small trees)

Then it would be worth it.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Scar.brother.help.me

[Zero-Tres]

On 2019-04-05 at 1:09 PM, Methanoid said:

its more that the itzal overperforms not only vs kdrives but every other archwing, everyone uses the itzal for open world if they have it exactly because it so much better, the movement should be reasonably similar for all archwing without 1 standing out as the defacto must have option.

Itzal is only better for movement, which is fine. All the other Archwings are still better than Itzal for AW missions, every single one. And if Itzal is better for ground missions it's because the other AWs suck for that, not because Itzal is overpowered. So nerfing Itzal is the wrong course of action.

Still Itzal being the best for grounded missions is fine. Since all the other AWs are better for AW missions, Itzal can be the best for ground missions. Every AW gets something it's good at, they all don't have to be good at the same thing.

[Educated_Beast]

Kdrives are not offensive, nothing to compare.  A k-drive is a side quest with Mr fodder.  No reason to use unless fun to you.

[FrostDragoon]

3 hours ago, Zero-Tres said:

Itzal is only better for movement, which is fine. All the other Archwings are still better than Itzal for AW missions, every single one. And if Itzal is better for ground missions it's because the other AWs suck for that, not because Itzal is overpowered. So nerfing Itzal is the wrong course of action.

Still Itzal being the best for grounded missions is fine. Since all the other AWs are better for AW missions, Itzal can be the best for ground missions. Every AW gets something it's good at, they all don't have to be good at the same thing.

Itzal is the best for many AW missions too, so I don't know wtf you're talking about.

[Zero-Tres]

Just now, FrostDragoon said:

Itzal is the best for many AW missions too, so I don't know wtf you're talking about.

It's not.

[FrostDragoon]

Oh, yeah. There's a good point. 🙄

 

His cloak makes him the best for Jordas Golem.

His speed/teleport makes him the best for Rush, Sabotage, Pursuit.

His vacuum makes him the best for Mobile Defense.

 

Care to try again?

[Zero-Tres]

1 hour ago, FrostDragoon said:

Oh, yeah. There's a good point. 🙄

 

His cloak makes him the best for Jordas Golem.

His speed/teleport makes him the best for Rush, Sabotage, Pursuit.

His vacuum makes him the best for Mobile Defense.

 

Care to try again?

Odonata is best for Jordas.

For Rush, Sabotage, Pursuit it's hard to control, but you can use any AW for those.

By Vacuum ig you mean Cosmic Crush, idk why you would want "vacuum" for Salacia.. But both Amesha and Elytron are better for that.

[FrostDragoon]

That's just wrong on every count.

Odonata has nothing good for Jordas. That gimp shield won't save you from getting flanked by all the drones or the splash damage of Jordas' larger attacks. Itzal's cloak + Velocitus makes quick and safe work of that fight.

You can use any AW for any mission, but Itzal is objectively the best at those mentioned because speed is a huge advantage. If you have a hard time controlling it, that's just a L2P issue on your part.

Yes, vacuum = Cosmic Crush, and the reason you want it for Salacia is that it pulls the enemies in while doing huge damage to them while also pulling in the energy they drop so you can keep spamming it. They can't touch the objective while you do this. Add his augment that freezes them and the difference between Itzal and everything else for this mission is just comical. Amesha offers nothing to this objective because the ability that "protects" it also interferes with your ability shoot down enemies on the other side of it. Elytron is awful for this because it has no defense, no cc, and only one good ability for taking out the waves of enemies--which is done better by several of the AW primaries.

Seriously, you make it sound like you haven't even played AW missions much--let alone Itzal specifically.

Edited October 1, 2019 by FrostDragoon

[Zero-Tres]

1 hour ago, FrostDragoon said:

the reason you want it for Salacia is that it pulls the enemies in while doing huge damage to them

"Huge damage" lol oh boi

[FrostDragoon]

12 minutes ago, Zero-Tres said:

"Huge damage" lol oh boi

What? Yours isn't modded correctly or something?

[Zero-Tres]

I wish they buffed Nitro Boost, one can barely tell the difference when having it on.

[FrostDragoon]

1 hour ago, Zero-Tres said:

I wish they buffed Nitro Boost, one can barely tell the difference when having it on.

At least we can agree on that, lol =D

[Grav_Starstrider]

In honor of Yareli's release, necro'ing this relevant thread I'd almost forgotten about.

Big oof that we had 39 pages of people giving feedback on K-Drives feeling really lame even when compared to just running (or bullet jumping) and gunning and casting with average-mobility Warframes, only for DE to barely tweak K-Drive functionality or Bounty flows in the intervening two years (aside from finally giving us sidearm usage) and to release a K-Drive-centric Warframe in arguably such a sad state that they're arguably the poorest-performing Warframe in the game.

DE I really think we give you good feedback, and lots of feedback (though not necessarily all of it good, nuggets of gold among turds, admittedly), but you seem to be engaging less and less with the forums, and integrating less and less forum-feedback into the game.

Please don't specifically wait overly long for a "marketable moment" or the creation of an "archwing-centric-quest" to release the modular Archwing rework, and please stop being so radio-silent and slow on speaking about Yareli's and K-Drive's (dys)functionality, and let us know when we can expect improvements to these systems.

[Aesthier]

 

[Grav_Starstrider]

48 minutes ago, Aesthier said:

 

You just made my day, lol