Lunaro fix/change list (stuff the few active players want)

[-Ryuurei-]

DE, since you've acknowledged that you're aware of the issues in Lunaro in the last devstream, I'd like to make a list of what exactly the large majority of the relatively small Lunaro community would like to see fixed/changed exactly.

Bugs we want fixed:

• Bullet jump not being cancelled by aiming (again): causes the ball to be automatically released when it previously wouldn't have, was broken the most recently of all these.
• Check immunity: probably caused by lag, it refers to when someone is hit by a check and doesn't stagger at all, this can get as ridiculous as someone tanking 4 to 5 checks. The person getting hit knows they're getting hit but isn't affected. X
• Own goals: yes, you can score own goals, probably lag related, not super high priority, just a minor inconvenience in matches.

Unintended side effects of PvE changes we want reverted:

• Check (E) distance: we want it reduced to what it used to be before the Chimera update, since the general melee changes have caused it to go ridiculously far in the same time, similar to check-sliding (pressing E, then sliding immediately after, causing the momentum to multiply, was used for instants, considered bug abuse/exploiting by most players due to how unfair it was)
• Projectile changes: again from the Chimera update, there were changes to projectile weapons, which caused them to start closer to the player, this sometimes causes the ball to hit the player as they're throwing it, resulting in it veering off to another direction. We'd like it reverted.

Changes that don't fall under the previous two:

• The non-interaction delay: affectionately referred to as the DElay by players, this is the 0.5 seconds after throwing a ball during which the thrower can not pick up or hit the ball. This was added to prevent instant unstables from happening, for which we are very grateful indeed, but it has a problem: it's too long. We would like it shortened to somewhere between 0.2 or 0.3 seconds instead, as it can hamper faster players by making them phase through the ball when attempting to shoot.
• Make going into practice mode and checking every tutorial at least once mandatory before being able to access public matchmaking, and (less priority) change practice so it's unlimited time again, perhaps even make it act like warm-up, but with non-replay goals like before, and allowing for multiple people, each with their own ball.
• Removing ball guarding: this mechanic was introduced during the Silver Grove update, and was probably intended to help ease new players into Lunaro, but it did the exact opposite, making veterans even harder to get the ball from. At first it worked alright, because the holder still staggered, but over time the stagger barely ever works anymore, which we now know as check immunity. It stands to reason that the biggest issue of check immunity will be resolved if this mechanic is removed. X
• Making someone mid-check immune to knockdowns. Just that, because it's really frustrating to hit an unstable ball with your own check, and get knocked down anyway despite successfully (or sometimes not even, depending on lag) redirecting it elsewhere. X
  Example: trying to defend the goal, you hit an unstable with a check, after which one of 3 things happen:
  1. the ball is redirected and you are unaffected
  2. you have more than 60ms ping and are knocked down, and the ball is (probably) redirected, but the enemy simply hits it again as you are lying on the floor for no reason and scores
  3. same as 2, but the enemy doesn't hit it or misses the goal, either way, no ball for you, and the enemy can just attempt to score again.
• Spectator mode: the ability to spectate an ongoing match (friends and invite only ones would require the spectator to be friends with or invited). Spectators can check a box to enter the match if another spectator does the same (to keep teams even) or they can simply watch, swapping between player perspectives and an overhead perspective of the whole field (and maybe on the sidelines too). Low priority but nice nonetheless.

I think I've covered everything so far, the priorities for making it playable again are underlined, and the major changes for improvement have a bold X at the end. Points with neither are lower priority and basically QoL.

Edited April 13, 2019 by --Q--DragonSkllzz
added spectator mode

[Nez-Kal]

My Gods, I feel like I've just witnessed a Unicorn.

Very good post and layout of issues. Hope it gets seen and filed with DE.

[-Ryuurei-]

On 2019-04-06 at 7:32 PM, Tangent-Valley said:

My Gods, I feel like I've just witnessed a Unicorn.

Very good post and layout of issues. Hope it gets seen and filed with DE.

Thanks for the compliment, I've actually made a post pretty much like this several times over, but I gave up due to lack of response after a few months of trying. Figured I'd make another more concise one since they acknowledged lunaro's existence on stream.

[Gentleman_Bird]

I played the Lunaro tutorial for the first time. Here's a bug for you: Doing the tutorial results in two different Teshin dialogues talking over each other, and a match starts. I'm not sure if a match is supposed to start in practice mode, and it gets pretty annoying when you're trying to listen to him explain the rules and getting constantly interrupted by the "60 seconds remaining" and "30 seconds remaining" messages. Also there's the fact that it's pretty difficult to practice when getting interrupted by the "match" ending and you need to select practice mode all over again.

[-Ryuurei-]

8 hours ago, Gentleman_Bird said:

I played the Lunaro tutorial for the first time. Here's a bug for you: Doing the tutorial results in two different Teshin dialogues talking over each other, and a match starts. I'm not sure if a match is supposed to start in practice mode, and it gets pretty annoying when you're trying to listen to him explain the rules and getting constantly interrupted by the "60 seconds remaining" and "30 seconds remaining" messages. Also there's the fact that it's pretty difficult to practice when getting interrupted by the "match" ending and you need to select practice mode all over again.

Yeah it recently went from infinite time in orokin map with no goal replays to basically just solo matchmaking. Probably unintentionally, because I can't imagine them having touched Lunaro on purpose...

Also: added spectator mode as low priority change to the main post

[tukan165]

Also, when there is a player between you and ball, you can't hit ball through him, something should be done with that.

UPD, check ignore problem 

what is ``` Making someone mid-check immune to knockdowns``` Does it mean" When you are Eing someone you can't be knocked down "?

 

Edited April 13, 2019 by tukan165

[Hunterstil]

A really good explanation on the few major bugs in lunaro , although some minor bugs haven't been mentioned . which I think should be mentioned. For example , when being a host the game recognizes the ball as a solid object , which makes it able for you to step on the ball , which resets your jumps and that way you can fly across the field. Now I am aware that literally no one uses it , but sometimes when dribbling or in some other situation you manage to sit on the ball during your dribble , which stops you for a moment and you lose all your speed.

Also the hitboxes of some objects in the lunaro maps can sometimes be waay too big. For example the half circle that is put right under the goal (on Orokin) and the ball can bounce off without you wanting it to bounce off. Same things applies to most objects in the lunaro maps.

A feature that lets you switch teams even when they are full. But the match won't be able to start ofc if the teams were unbalanced , but still having this kind of feature would be really relevant.

I'm surprised you haven't mentioned this bug , but being invited during map choosing bugs your screen out and then you cannot even load in and you have to restart your game.

These are the bugs that should be fixed after the ''main'' bugs have been fixed. (check imm , check length and etc.) There are so many bugs that I can't even count them but let's hope DE starts caring more about lunaro and its bugs.  I really do hope the upcoming lunaro fix , mentioned in the last devstream , isn't a one time thing.

 

[The_Great_Hawk]

An additional bug that is probably related to the Ball spawn, or the ball being taken as a physical object is that under certain conditions when attempting aerial unstables, the player's bullet jump will go excessively high even though they were aiming towards the ball.

 

Also update the bullet jump point to say that it is not fixed for all warframes!

 

 

Edited April 21, 2019 by The_Great_Hawk

[tukan165]

you forgot one thing: Ball bounces from player if you are host, so no dribble (comfort version of it)

 

[Funki0]

On 2019-04-06 at 6:58 PM, --Q--DragonSkllzz said:

DE, since you've acknowledged that you're aware of the issues in Lunaro in the last devstream, I'd like to make a list of what exactly the large majority of the relatively small Lunaro community would like to see fixed/changed exactly.

Bugs we want fixed:

• Bullet jump not being cancelled by aiming (again): causes the ball to be automatically released when it previously wouldn't have, was broken the most recently of all these.
• Check immunity: probably caused by lag, it refers to when someone is hit by a check and doesn't stagger at all, this can get as ridiculous as someone tanking 4 to 5 checks. The person getting hit knows they're getting hit but isn't affected. X
• Own goals: yes, you can score own goals, probably lag related, not super high priority, just a minor inconvenience in matches.

Unintended side effects of PvE changes we want reverted:

• Check (E) distance: we want it reduced to what it used to be before the Chimera update, since the general melee changes have caused it to go ridiculously far in the same time, similar to check-sliding (pressing E, then sliding immediately after, causing the momentum to multiply, was used for instants, considered bug abuse/exploiting by most players due to how unfair it was)
• Projectile changes: again from the Chimera update, there were changes to projectile weapons, which caused them to start closer to the player, this sometimes causes the ball to hit the player as they're throwing it, resulting in it veering off to another direction. We'd like it reverted.

Changes that don't fall under the previous two:

• The non-interaction delay: affectionately referred to as the DElay by players, this is the 0.5 seconds after throwing a ball during which the thrower can not pick up or hit the ball. This was added to prevent instant unstables from happening, for which we are very grateful indeed, but it has a problem: it's too long. We would like it shortened to somewhere between 0.2 or 0.3 seconds instead, as it can hamper faster players by making them phase through the ball when attempting to shoot.
• Make going into practice mode and checking every tutorial at least once mandatory before being able to access public matchmaking, and (less priority) change practice so it's unlimited time again, perhaps even make it act like warm-up, but with non-replay goals like before, and allowing for multiple people, each with their own ball.
• Removing ball guarding: this mechanic was introduced during the Silver Grove update, and was probably intended to help ease new players into Lunaro, but it did the exact opposite, making veterans even harder to get the ball from. At first it worked alright, because the holder still staggered, but over time the stagger barely ever works anymore, which we now know as check immunity. It stands to reason that the biggest issue of check immunity will be resolved if this mechanic is removed. X
• Making someone mid-check immune to knockdowns. Just that, because it's really frustrating to hit an unstable ball with your own check, and get knocked down anyway despite successfully (or sometimes not even, depending on lag) redirecting it elsewhere. X
  Example: trying to defend the goal, you hit an unstable with a check, after which one of 3 things happen:
  1. the ball is redirected and you are unaffected
  2. you have more than 60ms ping and are knocked down, and the ball is (probably) redirected, but the enemy simply hits it again as you are lying on the floor for no reason and scores
  3. same as 2, but the enemy doesn't hit it or misses the goal, either way, no ball for you, and the enemy can just attempt to score again.
• Spectator mode: the ability to spectate an ongoing match (friends and invite only ones would require the spectator to be friends with or invited). Spectators can check a box to enter the match if another spectator does the same (to keep teams even) or they can simply watch, swapping between player perspectives and an overhead perspective of the whole field (and maybe on the sidelines too). Low priority but nice nonetheless.

I think I've covered everything so far, the priorities for making it playable again are underlined, and the major changes for improvement have a bold X at the end. Points with neither are lower priority and basically QoL.

These are exactly the things the Lunaro community (which does exist, yes) wants.

I do want to add some substance to the ball flying away when thrown in certain angles with this:

Spoiler

 

And I do want to add that you can actually latch to pillars (and I think walls too) now. I don't know when that happened, but it did and it is really bad for Lunaro.

It would be really nice if we would finally see actual fixes to the high priority problems in Lunaro. Like changing one value from 0.5 to 0.2 or 0.3

I really hope something happens in the near future.
With that said. Good luck and have fun.