A little advice before using your Umbra Forma

[Ham_Grenabe]

17 hours ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

Mine's going on a K-Drive. 

Right? MIND. BLOWN. 

[Lhudge]

I think I'll use it on Mesa Prime.

[HorridaMessor]

Chroma Prime to get extra capacity for Power Drift, because 333% Power Strength isn't enough

[Mados.sys]

9 hours ago, F8ted said:

Sound advice. I try/fail this rule with new warframes/potatoes all the time.

That's the hard choice, as i said i really want to use it with Khora because she's my deadliest and most perfect Warframe of all (personal choice) but since she is still normal, eventually Khora Prime will be a thing, and my 10 weeks of umbra forma farm could have gone to the trash when i have to replace her with the Prime variant (i'm obviously not going to delet her, but it's just a thing that is stucked on my mind)

9 hours ago, F8ted said:

Yeah this is the difficult one. Really narrows the list. Not even original Umbra really gives a clem about Umbral Fiber. Not until we are fighting sentients on a regular basis that can be killed with our warframes will these mods be a meaningful difference between the base mods. Bonus: A primed version of these mods (unlikely to ever exist) would be better in almost every case and not limit someone to Umbra polarity.

Well yeah it narrows the list but if we think about it, we can put 2 umbra mods and the rest just normal mods with a bunch of formas that can be more easily obtained, don't you think? i should have specified that actually, my bad.

Like for example my Nova has intensify and vitality with no problem at all, but Valkyr has all 3 and my build is really struggling to fit on her

9 hours ago, F8ted said:

Ah I see what you are saying. Now originally it was Excalibur/Mag/Loki that were the starter frames. It changed around the time of Vor's Prize, the MK1 weapons, and damaged mods were added in a wide effort at making the game more approachable for new players. Loki was seen as much more difficult than Volt to learn/play/mod and was replaced. I found it funny because they could have just switched it with ash, keeping the Melee/Caster/Stealth paradigm intact rather than Melee/Caster/Caster. I digress however, and besides the fact they both violate your #2 rule, I see your logic.

Well as i say they are potentially the next Umbra frames since having the trio would be just right, and i think the same actually, Excalibur is the poster boy while there is still the "Ninjas play for free" but Excalibur for example has little to nothing of a ninja (he's mostly a turret right now) and i've been thinking that Ash should be a starter and the poster boy, since he's the most ninja warframe of all, and as you say, he has a pretty easy to learn kit; Nice damage, stealth, resistant, fun to play. The only 2 things he lacks on are defensive capabilitys and CC but that's just it (i remember his smoke screen actually blinded enemies, i wish that came back) but that's another topic.

And if we think about it, if Volt and Mag ever became Umbra, they might come with new umbra mods, maybe redirection umbral? That would suit them and other warframes that don't work that well with armor / health

[Rhundis]

It's going on my Frost Prime. He's my main and can benefit from all 3 mods with my current build.

[(PSN)jamdjedi]

you can put the Umbra's on any Warframe, you'll just have to add an additional Forma to counterbalance the points in those 3 mods. Hold on to your umbra formas until they become more prevalent  

[Jonas_T_acc]

I'd say just put it on a frame you like and use alot, I put mine on Khora because it felt right for my build. If Nightwave resets every 10 weeks there will be enough umbral forma anyway. Now I'll probably wait until I get two umbral formas for a frame, I don't feel like only one gives enough impact to matter that much.

[SneakyErvin]

Well I got my Umbra Forma today and decided to spend it on Frost Prime since between him and Oberon Prime he seemed to get most out of it aswell as me prefering to play Frosty out of the two. I can safely say I wont regret it. With my high strength avalanche focused build I was able to switch out Augur Secrets and still stay at 90%+ armor strip (104% with Growing Power active), so I could safely slot Stretch for far better area coverage on the skill. This was in addition to the nice health boost that Globe got and the extra armor and HP for Frost himself.

 

[F8ted]

I'm sorry, I may have been slightly more cynical than I should have been. My gripe can be summed up to I do not think, especially how slow it is being presented, that building the umbra forma/mods is a worthwhile investment. Beyond that your advice was spectacular, and I was probably more negative than I should have been.

7 hours ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

That's the hard choice, as i said i really want to use it with Khora because she's my deadliest and most perfect Warframe of all (personal choice) but since she is still normal, eventually Khora Prime will be a thing, and my 10 weeks of umbra forma farm could have gone to the trash when i have to replace her with the Prime variant (i'm obviously not going to delet her, but it's just a thing that is stucked on my mind)

This is beautiful. 10p for a nostalgic slot is nothing. Hold on to her if you truly feel she was something worth being nostalgic about. Very rarely am I sentimental in games where doing so actually costs resources but behold!

Spoiler

That is my Nova. Got her on release, back when raptor was truly terrifying. Yep that is an Arcane flux helmet from back when stamina was a thing. Yeah I rocking my Christmas cane on my Reaper. Never went anywhere without my trusty knifes, which has caused my profile to permanently show them as my most used weapon since. She may have got a makeover lately, but shes still my favorite:

Spoiler

 

7 hours ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

Well yeah it narrows the list but if we think about it, we can put 2 umbra mods and the rest just normal mods with a bunch of formas that can be more easily obtained, don't you think? i should have specified that actually, my bad.

Like for example my Nova has intensify and vitality with no problem at all, but Valkyr has all 3 and my build is really struggling to fit on her

Oh boy. To answer directly, yes of course we could. They would provide a small benefit over their normal version and the set bonus which is peculiar. Intensify+ is always welcome, and any iteration that is mutually exclusive will just either be better or worse, in this case strictly better is well established. It is also just about universally desired, except ironically in very niche cases like Nova. You locked yourself into slowva permanently. Not that it is bad, just not universally desired. Same problem with Vitality+ and Steel Fiber+, in descending order of desirability. Though resources exist and one certainly can spend the extra effort to get a little bit more out of these, it is not vastly better than the regular version, especially if you are not in the business of farming Lua regularly. Even then, it's hard to justify leveling 3 legendary mods for a couple of warframes for a couple of missions. Valkyr has so much armor anyway, with warcry and steel fiber you hit very near the cap of damage reduction, which is boosted further by Intensify+ than Steel Fiber+. Most individual cases work out like this. A few numerically benefit due to re-scaling the same mod multiple times through a kit. Take rhino, both Intensify+ and Steel Fiber+ exponentially increase Iron skin without cap. Now its not 88% damage reduction vs 90%, but that plus an few life pools worth of resistance to boot. It's not that they are pointless or useless it is that they, as you have well pointed out, are a huge investment, something that one would expect a equivalent return.

8 hours ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

Well as i say they are potentially the next Umbra frames since having the trio would be just right, and i think the same actually, Excalibur is the poster boy while there is still the "Ninjas play for free" but Excalibur for example has little to nothing of a ninja (he's mostly a turret right now) and i've been thinking that Ash should be a starter and the poster boy, since he's the most ninja warframe of all, and as you say, he has a pretty easy to learn kit; Nice damage, stealth, resistant, fun to play. The only 2 things he lacks on are defensive capabilitys and CC but that's just it (i remember his smoke screen actually blinded enemies, i wish that came back) but that's another topic.

And if we think about it, if Volt and Mag ever became Umbra, they might come with new umbra mods, maybe redirection umbral? That would suit them and other warframes that don't work that well with armor / health

All of these are great ideas. I feel its even harder to justify Umbra Redirection than the others. Streamline is about the only one that would hands down be a reason to umbra forma your favorite, and could be any. Outside of that mods by very nature are too niche for this treatment. I already took exception when they added Primed Mods in the first place and this is no different besides the included set bonus. There really needs to be a reason to want to invest such resources into a mod. What amounts to be a few % points in difference in end effect isn't enough to make waves in my builds. 

[Mados.sys]

17 hours ago, F8ted said:

This is beautiful. 10p for a nostalgic slot is nothing. Hold on to her if you truly feel she was something worth being nostalgic about. Very rarely am I sentimental in games where doing so actually costs resources but behold!

  Hide contents

That is my Nova. Got her on release, back when raptor was truly terrifying. Yep that is an Arcane flux helmet from back when stamina was a thing. Yeah I rocking my Christmas cane on my Reaper. Never went anywhere without my trusty knifes, which has caused my profile to permanently show them as my most used weapon since. She may have got a makeover lately, but shes still my favorite:

  Hide contents Hide contents

 

This reminds me so much of Valkyr, i also got her back in the day when she was released and since then, i just fell in love with her, everything that she had was perfect and i learned how to use her without being the generic hysteria build number one million, she was the main reason of why i'm a melee fan, sadly enough i had to sacrifice her because i was broke when i had no more warframe slots and i already had her prime variant, now i can buy as many slots as possible but i will definitely miss that original Valkyr, building her again and starting from 0 doesn't feel the same honestly.

And also there's the thing that Valkyr is already pretty outdated, sadly enough i as a Valkyr main have to admit that the only things that she have to offer is the tankyness and Warcry, because there is... "another" warframe that i seriously dislike, that can do everything that she does but better, "his" rework made him broken, overrated and sadly enough, better than my beloved Valkyr. I hope she gets a boost or rework to make her better soon.

18 hours ago, F8ted said:

Oh boy. To answer directly, yes of course we could. They would provide a small benefit over their normal version and the set bonus which is peculiar. Intensify+ is always welcome, and any iteration that is mutually exclusive will just either be better or worse, in this case strictly better is well established. It is also just about universally desired, except ironically in very niche cases like Nova. You locked yourself into slowva permanently. Not that it is bad, just not universally desired. Same problem with Vitality+ and Steel Fiber+, in descending order of desirability. Though resources exist and one certainly can spend the extra effort to get a little bit more out of these, it is not vastly better than the regular version, especially if you are not in the business of farming Lua regularly. Even then, it's hard to justify leveling 3 legendary mods for a couple of warframes for a couple of missions. Valkyr has so much armor anyway, with warcry and steel fiber you hit very near the cap of damage reduction, which is boosted further by Intensify+ than Steel Fiber+. Most individual cases work out like this. A few numerically benefit due to re-scaling the same mod multiple times through a kit. Take rhino, both Intensify+ and Steel Fiber+ exponentially increase Iron skin without cap. Now its not 88% damage reduction vs 90%, but that plus an few life pools worth of resistance to boot. It's not that they are pointless or useless it is that they, as you have well pointed out, are a huge investment, something that one would expect a equivalent return.

Well i didn't locked myself on slova actually, since the only strenght mod that i use on her is Intensify (boosted by umbral vitality), and whenever i want i can change it for overextended and become fast, the rest of my mods are the 4 of duration, streamline, plus the exilus and the other slot i use 2 of her augments, the wormhole and primed, to become tanky and also fast, so she's pretty versatile for any situation.

And yeah actually i want to get as much armor as possible with Valkyr, it might sound a bit dumb because maybe there's an armor limit that i've trying to surpass, but let's be honest, there are tons of broken enemies that can easily one shot you no matter what, so armor is like a "balanced" Adaptation mod, i can resist like half of what you normally could, but forever (and trust me, i get easily triggered when broken enemies kill me because of my lack of defensive mods, it's frustrating because i can no longer use Banshee since she can easily be one shooted by anything, so i have to go full serious over a fun way to play)

18 hours ago, F8ted said:

I'm sorry, I may have been slightly more cynical than I should have been. My gripe can be summed up to I do not think, especially how slow it is being presented, that building the umbra forma/mods is a worthwhile investment. Beyond that your advice was spectacular, and I was probably more negative than I should have been.

Don't worry, we all have that sort of days. Specially me with that "special warframe" that is leaving my Valkyr on the shadows, i always get incredibly triggered and cynical when i see "him" on my squad, and trust me, he's awfuly common to find.

[(XBOX)Calliber]

On 2019-04-06 at 12:35 PM, Deluxe-Chimera said:

Do not use it on normal warframes

Slight edit, don't use on normal warframes that have primes or that have upcoming Primes this year, namely Wukong and Atlas...and maybe Ivara. Other non-primed frames you'd be safe with as by that time we will most likely have access to more of the forma.  

Personally I'm putting it on Nezha, he can benefit from all 3, my main frame, and won't be seeing the Prime until mid-late 2020.    

[Ryusuta]

Mine will probably be my Zephyr Prime.

[Mados.sys]

9 hours ago, (XB1)Calliber said:

Slight edit, don't use on normal warframes that have primes or that have upcoming Primes this year, namely Wukong and Atlas...and maybe Ivara. Other non-primed frames you'd be safe with as by that time we will most likely have access to more of the forma.  

Personally I'm putting it on Nezha, he can benefit from all 3, my main frame, and won't be seeing the Prime until mid-late 2020.    

I edited that part to give details on wich primes will come after another so thanks for the suggestion, and yeah actually on like the beginning of 2020 we'll have Titania Prime, and then after that Nezha Prime should come, so you'll know what could be better.

[Dthamilaye]

Saryn Prime.

With uforma, i can fit in full aviator and update streamline to max, which makes my build "complete".

Edit: For ESO, of course

Edited April 10, 2019 by Dthamilaye

[F8ted]

11 hours ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

This reminds me so much of Valkyr, i also got her back in the day when she was released and since then, i just fell in love with her, everything that she had was perfect and i learned how to use her without being the generic hysteria build number one million, she was the main reason of why i'm a melee fan, sadly enough i had to sacrifice her because i was broke when i had no more warframe slots and i already had her prime variant, now i can buy as many slots as possible but i will definitely miss that original Valkyr, building her again and starting from 0 doesn't feel the same honestly.

And also there's the thing that Valkyr is already pretty outdated, sadly enough i as a Valkyr main have to admit that the only things that she have to offer is the tankyness and Warcry, because there is... "another" warframe that i seriously dislike, that can do everything that she does but better, "his" rework made him broken, overrated and sadly enough, better than my beloved Valkyr. I hope she gets a boost or rework to make her better soon.

Valkyr was one of my favorites too before the Hysteria change, and yeah she needs some serious help now. She is due for an actual rework. The new melee system has greatly hindered her flow, and it's getting more and more difficult to melee everything to keep eternal war up. That being said she is a good candidate for all three mods, being that she benefits from all of them. A lot of frames get nearly no benefit from steel fiber, and some (like my nova) don't run vitality. If you are getting good use out of 'em, by all means use them. I won't ever tell someone they have to "another" warframe because they are numerically better. I just personally like a higher margin of numerically better before I give up on my OG intensify, vitality, and steel fiber.

11 hours ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

Well i didn't locked myself on slova actually, since the only strenght mod that i use on her is Intensify (boosted by umbral vitality), and whenever i want i can change it for overextended and become fast, the rest of my mods are the 4 of duration, streamline, plus the exilus and the other slot i use 2 of her augments, the wormhole and primed, to become tanky and also fast, so she's pretty versatile for any situation.

And yeah actually i want to get as much armor as possible with Valkyr, it might sound a bit dumb because maybe there's an armor limit that i've trying to surpass, but let's be honest, there are tons of broken enemies that can easily one shot you no matter what, so armor is like a "balanced" Adaptation mod, i can resist like half of what you normally could, but forever (and trust me, i get easily triggered when broken enemies kill me because of my lack of defensive mods, it's frustrating because i can no longer use Banshee since she can easily be one shooted by anything, so i have to go full serious over a fun way to play)

Vitality on Nova is fine, I was presumptuous about using the intensify version. I guess if I were to share my build it's Corrosive projection, Pain Threshold, Primed Focus, Primed Continuity, Narrow Minded, Streamline, Quick thinking, Molecular Fission, Hunter Adrenaline, Overextended/Augur Secrets. I used to like terminal velocity, but hate getting staggered, so made the change. She is already sitting at 4 forma (after of course already doing this once before Nova Prime was released), so I am even less eager to give Nova this treatment. 

Valkyr if I dig up her eternal war build is Steel Charge, Coaction Drift, Primed Continuity, Steel Fiber, Eternal War, Intesify, Augur Message, Hunter Adrenaline, Streamline, Vitality. Armor on her works since she has a huge base, and it can be increased by Warcry. This build puts my armor at 1470, 2425 with Warcry up. At 1470 armor, I have 83% damage reduction. Almost as good as Adaptation if it didn't need to charge. At 2425 I have 89% damage reduction, but that was by increasing my total armor by 65%, for an effective 6% increase in damage reduction. The differences in effective health at least show a better difference, with 740 base health I get: 4353 EH(1470), 6727 EH (2425). Now what would it all look like if I replaced my non umbra with umbra: 6692 EH(without warcry), 12,429(Warcry). Now as I had mentioned before, if the mods can be run twice+ through a kit, they get much better. In this case the base effective hp pools 4353 vs 6692 is about a 65% increase in survivability, but just putting on Steel Fiber in the first place is a 57% increase in effective health(2467/4253). Each mod averages about a 22% increase over the base mod when all three are used on a warframe that benefits well from the base. I think that margin is too low even on valkyr, and much worse on most others. Adaptation, basically does this for warframes with no base armor. If we used an example with lower base armor (say banshee) the EH increase would be negligible even if you used all 3. 

13 hours ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

Don't worry, we all have that sort of days. Specially me with that "special warframe" that is leaving my Valkyr on the shadows, i always get incredibly triggered and cynical when i see "him" on my squad, and trust me, he's awfuly common to find.

I think I know just the frame. For what it's worth, he has a lower effective health than Valkyr, just does things easier. 

[Morgana_Arcana]

I guess if I want to use it on Garuda I just have to bite the bullet.

I'm assuming additional umbra forma will be available well before Garuda Prime (at least I hope so - they wouldn't just do one that seems silly).

[Mados.sys]

9 hours ago, AliceLaFay said:

I guess if I want to use it on Garuda I just have to bite the bullet.

I'm assuming additional umbra forma will be available well before Garuda Prime (at least I hope so - they wouldn't just do one that seems silly).

If you want to use it on Garuda, go ahead since it's going to be a looong time before she becomes prime (that's why i edited the first part) but before that as i always recommend, think twice, Garuda's 3rd ability doesn't give you more energy based on your health, the ability just rip off 50% of your health for a % of energy wich is based on your efficiency, that might be changed or not... But that's worth knowing just in case.

I hope instead of 1 umbra forma, the rewards of nightwave give 3 Umbra formas because 1 is little to nothing, or at least 2, since sacrificial mods are a thing as well.

[F8ted]

13 hours ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

I hope instead of 1 umbra forma, the rewards of nightwave give 3 Umbra formas because 1 is little to nothing, or at least 2, since sacrificial mods are a thing as well.

There does need to be a lot more availability first. I am kind of surprised it has taken this long to allow for it. Oh and hey, between you and me, the math for the sacrificial mods are much much better than the math for the Umbra mods. Though unless you are running a melee that benefits well from critical hits, primed pressure point is pretty good too. 

[Benour]

Gonna slap it on Garuda. Did 100 rounds arbi def yesterday with clannie and that make her umbral forma worthy. 👍

[-NightmareMoon-]

well im using it on Khora anyway, her prime wont be out in a couple of years :I

Edited April 11, 2019 by -NightmareMoon-

[Kobrakai]

Think I might use it on my kavat.

[(XBOX)Oussii]

i do not need to worry about that, as far as i know DE since 5 years now, soon they will put it in the sortie

Just wait for it

[(PSN)Black_Adder_]

When I had just found out about Umbra forma I couldn't decide which frame I should use it on. Went through all of my frames multiple times optimizing mod setups and ended up with just few frames left that I had actually put umbral mods on. And now I literally have no use for Umbral forma as all my frames have all the mods I want on them already. This and The Surge on PS Plus (I had no idea this game is the Dark Souls with exoskeleton suits - awesome game) killed my mood for doing Nightwave challenges or playing Warframe at all until something new comes. I guess I will force myself to grind the challenges this weekend but that Umbra forma will most likely gather dust in my inventory as there is nothing that can't be fixed with just forma.

[SenariousNex]

Nidus, he is not getting primed till 2022 anyway.

[-Temp0-]

В 08.04.2019 в 13:54, (PS4)Mono-Pop сказал:

The GAME is GRIND. If you’re only just figuring that out now, that’s actually embarrassing.

Just about everything that exists in this game is grind.

Now, the developers are loosening that collar, giving us MORE STUFF for doing LESS GRIND and people are flinging more crap at DE than I’ve seen in a long time.

It’s disappointing and I think hurtful to the game itself.

What do DE do if trying to give us free stuff makes their own community hate them? 

Youre delusioned af if you somehow think nightwave or other New sysyems like relics are less grind. Its 10 times more grind for no reward. Doing fecking nightwave for weeks now, only at step 15 and I dont fecking need ANYTHING there, all rewards are trash and the only not so good looking cosmetics will take even more weeks to get or that useless forma. Like always they fckd up rewards, giving awful looking scraps instead of cosmetics you would want. Creating good looking sigils takes minutes, pulling conclave skins to the nightwave pool and also sigils takes minutes, yet you keep seeing ugly trash no one wants to wear or use or grind for. Best looking cosmetics are buried in this dead game mode no one plays yet youre stuck with 7gly as hell grineer armor and syndana for what takes WEEKSof every day busywork. F this game