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IIAc3sII

Please bring back Bait Blueprints on Plains of Eidalon.

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Posted (edited)

1st, You have all these resources on the map that are pretty useless unless you craft baits with them, now these resources serve no real purpose anymore. Not to mention gathering materials feels way more immersive, it allows you to explore the Plains of Eidalon and enjoy the scenery.

2nd, This change to buy bait with reputation is only good for people who are already at max standing, newer players who still need to grind reputation are not going to waste it on spending up to 400 standing on just one lure, thats pretty far fetched.

3rd, Why allow older players to still enjoy their blueprints and gather materials and not newer players? Why is there no option for everyone, like allowing players to either get the blueprint and enjoy their crafting AND allow players to buy just one lure for reputation, this option would make everyone happy. What we have right now is just excluding new players, which is unfair.

Personally, I'm pretty new to the game and been grinding every single day for three weeks (thx daily cap) to finally get these blueprints, and now when I'm about to get them DE removes them from the game and forces me to spend reputation per lure...

I was looking forwards to relax, explore, gather, craft, and fish to get reputation instead of always grinding endless bounties.

Needless to say, I'm utmost disappointed with these changes and how older players can still enjoy all of this, while newer players are forced out of this crafting experience and forced to spend rep for a single lure.

DE, Please bring back Bait Blueprints.

Edited by IIAc3sII
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Posted (edited)

MATHS

I will only be using baited fish species as our base since non-baited species can...well they can be caught without needing bait.

Let's do some calculations. For the benefit of the doubt I'll say you catch exclusively Small Sharrac (of course in reality you would be getting medium and big ones as well)

The old blueprints for baits required 20 fish meat to craft (along with some other materials, Glappid bait being the exception with 10 fish meat). Again, I give you the benefit of the doubt and say that the fish meat is the only required resource, just to simplify our calculations.

Old Crafting System

Small Sharrac gives 2 fish meat per catch. Meaning you will need 20 / 2 = 10 Small Sharrac to be able to craft 20 bait

This is about 2 bait per Small Sharrac.

New Purchase System

The twilight bait required to catch Small Sharrac costs 100 rep for 1 bait. Small Sharrac gives 100 rep per catch.

This is about 1 bait per Small Sharrac.

That means I'm getting half the amount of bait with the new purchase system, right?

Nope. Things are more complicated than that. Take note that with the old crafting system, you do have other crafting requirements so fish meat is far from the only stuff you need. The argument is, whether the tradeoff for being more flexible (rep comes from different sources) beats out the time you take to farm those additional resources.

On a side note, this may also be one of the less invasive solutions by the devs to people going "professional fishing" to farm rep in ridiculous amounts.

Edit 15.4.2019

Edited by Cephalycion
Edit for maths
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8 minutes ago, Cephalycion said:

Oh, my sweet summer child, you have no idea how much of a pain the bait blueprints were huh?

I will only be using baited fish species as our base since non-baited species can...well they can be caught without needing bait.

Let's do some calculations. For the benefit of the doubt I'll say you catch exclusively Small Sharrac (of course in reality you would be getting medium and big ones as well)

The old blueprints for baits required 20 fish meat to craft (along with some other materials, Glappid bait being the exception with 10 fish meat). Again, I give you the benefit of the doubt and say that the fish meat is the only required resource, just to simplify our calculations.

Small Sharrac gives 2 fish meat per catch. Meaning you will need 20 / 2 = 10 Small Sharrac to be able to craft 1 bait - Old crafting system

Small Sharrac also gives 100 rep per catch. Meaning you will get 20 * 100 = 2000 reputation - New purchase system

Well, guess how much the twilight bait needed to catch Sharrac fishes cost in rep? Exactly 2000. You're welcome.

Add to that all the "benefit of the doubts" that I gave you, safe to say the current bait system is superior in every way. I know I will be selling my bait blueprints back to the Ostron peeps for 100k credits. More than worth.

On a side note, this may also be one of the less invasive solutions by the devs to people going "professional fishing" to farm rep in ridiculous amounts.

No one want to remove new system, just want to have both.

Since we have daily standing limit, it's nice thing to having a bait BP.

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3 minutes ago, Test-995 said:

No one want to remove new system, just want to have both.

Since we have daily standing limit, it's nice thing to having a bait BP.

On a side note, this may also be one of the less invasive solutions by the devs to people going "professional fishing" to farm rep in ridiculous amounts.

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Just now, Cephalycion said:

On a side note, this may also be one of the less invasive solutions by the devs to people going "professional fishing" to farm rep in ridiculous amounts.

What's wrong with "professional fishing" though?

They got restricted by daily standing limit anyways, and now we have thumpers to farm lot of ores...

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Just now, Test-995 said:

What's wrong with "professional fishing" though?

They got restricted by daily standing limit anyways, and now we have thumpers to farm lot of ores...

I guess the devs wanted people to gain rep mainly from bounties and not fishing? Idk.

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Posted (edited)

While I've already had them all for a year, so it doesn't really affect me directly, I have to agree with OP when it comes to still selling both the old BPs and the new direct rep-to-bait for new players. I'm certainly not going to sell my BPs, especially the Twilight one, and I feel new players deserve to have the option to choose what mix of bp-crafted bait and rep-bought bait they want, too. Just drop the credit value down to something reasonable and put them back in at the old costs, maybe even cheaper. Don't even care if I'm refunded the difference or not.

I'd honestly like to see reusable BPs for Fortuna fish bait too, though since they spawn without bait and there's the Exploiter Orb, this can be fairly low priority. Just would be nice to see some day.

Edited by Variks_Prime
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Just my opinion but I think having the blueprints there still is just gonna be a trap for newbies. Just the same way mod packs and relic packs and credit packs from the market are. They'll be all "ooh i can just get a blueprint and craft all this stuff"  then spend many hours longer getting the resources needed than necessary. There was nothing good about the previous system, and if you want proof just look how quickly we could rank up in fortuna this time compared to the grind the plains were.  For every one day we lost in standing for the baits, we gained like 2-3 hours fishing time we could spend doing bounties or mining, or conservation or anything else so we had those resources stockpiled too.  

I mean.. sure for those of us maxxed out the blueprints would be okay i guess... i still am all for saving time so i like just buying the baits a whole lot more, but its just not worth using all my stored resources, or time getting the parts im missing just to fish to get fish that i need to make bait to get the better fish that i need to get bait to get the better fish

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5 minutes ago, LuckyCharm said:

Just my opinion but I think having the blueprints there still is just gonna be a trap for newbies. Just the same way mod packs and relic packs and credit packs from the market are. They'll be all "ooh i can just get a blueprint and craft all this stuff"  then spend many hours longer getting the resources needed than necessary. There was nothing good about the previous system, and if you want proof just look how quickly we could rank up in fortuna this time compared to the grind the plains were.  For every one day we lost in standing for the baits, we gained like 2-3 hours fishing time we could spend doing bounties or mining, or conservation or anything else so we had those resources stockpiled too.  

I mean.. sure for those of us maxxed out the blueprints would be okay i guess... i still am all for saving time so i like just buying the baits a whole lot more, but its just not worth using all my stored resources, or time getting the parts im missing just to fish to get fish that i need to make bait to get the better fish that i need to get bait to get the better fish

There is a daily standing limit, technically you can farm fishes/resources for 24 hours/w resource booster and gain all resources needed for craft everything, but you can't farm rep like that.

What's wrong with it is standing cost for bait bp or crafting component of bait, not the system itself.

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I won't like it but I'll take less umbrage with this change if you can find the rarer fish on the plains without them, like you can in the vallis.

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Just now, Test-995 said:

There is a daily standing limit, technically you can farm fishes/resources for 24 hours/w resource booster and gain all resources needed for craft everything, but you can't farm rep like that.

What's wrong with it is standing cost for bait bp or crafting component of bait, not the system itself.

Literally everything is wrong with the system. What you're asking for is a whole new blueprint with different requirements. Not just a simple "keep the blueprints there" 

To craft a glappid bait you need to have fished for norgs, and cuthols, which require you to have farmed for other fish, who's baits required you to farm for other fish. It was a whole teired system. And you'd still want to hand some of those fish in for standing meaning you'd need to fish EVEN MORE for bait.  It's literally a massive time sink, and that's the whole issue. What's being discussed here is if you have the time to do all that extra fishing all the time to get the fish you need to make the baits for things and most people wont. Hense why I called it a trap, because the time vs reward just isn't there compared to the new system. regardless of daily cap. Because in that same vein of thinking a newbie can farm more daily cap simply by doing a bunch of weapon building and grinding to increase their MR in that same time few extra hours a day it'd take to do all the fishing for these higher level baits. 

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18 minutes ago, LuckyCharm said:

Literally everything is wrong with the system. What you're asking for is a whole new blueprint with different requirements. Not just a simple "keep the blueprints there" 

To craft a glappid bait you need to have fished for norgs, and cuthols, which require you to have farmed for other fish, who's baits required you to farm for other fish. It was a whole teired system. And you'd still want to hand some of those fish in for standing meaning you'd need to fish EVEN MORE for bait.  It's literally a massive time sink, and that's the whole issue. What's being discussed here is if you have the time to do all that extra fishing all the time to get the fish you need to make the baits for things and most people wont. Hense why I called it a trap, because the time vs reward just isn't there compared to the new system. regardless of daily cap. Because in that same vein of thinking a newbie can farm more daily cap simply by doing a bunch of weapon building and grinding to increase their MR in that same time few extra hours a day it'd take to do all the fishing for these higher level baits. 

You're forgetting that we have Thumpers now, which are going to give us excesses of any of those at random. And using the BPs doesn't (or shouldn't) mean you have to ONLY use the BPs. They're a sink for excess fish parts, and an option for when you want to conserve standing for other things. Say you happen to get a nice chance to fish Murkray with a friend's bait... now you have an excess of murk parts, and you could use that to get a bunch of Norg bait without spending standing on each consumable. It's not a bad thing, and as you already pointed out... the game's FULL of new player traps anyways. This one would be far more useful than leaving the mod packs in the market, yet those are still there last I checked.

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Unless the build requirements for baits are reworked so they don't use specialized bait-only fish parts (i.e. no Murkray or above) and make sense (i.e. no more Glappid (sea) bait requiring Norg (lake) and Cuthol (pond) parts), they should continue to rot.

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What?

They actually removed the bait blueprints?

episode 7 shock GIF by Hotstar

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5 hours ago, IIAc3sII said:

You have all these resources on the map that are pretty useless

Talking about useless resources...what shall I say? lol

resources39.jpg

Where to spend now since Arnaces are prebuilt? :crylaugh:

*this comment is not all serious

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Posted (edited)

I would appreciate being able to get the blueprints still also, as the bait prints seemed to give quite a lot of baits in return for dropping some left over resources.

as much as I like buying baits in fortuna, particularly for the more powerful standing giving fish during a resource booster. I didn't mind having a glut of cetus bait thanks to crafting with my stockpile of fish drops that weren't being used also. you can fish pretty fast when they get going and you know your spears and species.

Edited by Darkmega18
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Honestly I'd love to see the bait blueprints return along with bait blueprints for the vallis. if you are worried about new play traps just move them to top standing rank requirement and call it a day. I get that this was a move to force people into do stuff for stand to spend it on things. But honestly its why I don't buy bait on the vallis and just farm deck 12 spider. So I'm still not spending my standing point their.

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Please no,

if I ever need fish again I rather buy them with standing instead of being locked into "oh get this fish to get that bait, and now get the other fish for that bait, and now there's another fish for that bait" until I reach the end of it..

Thanks

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Posted (edited)

Most veteran players will keep their blueprints and not sell it, and they will have the choice to either craft baits AND buy them for reputation, new players are treated unfair with this.

Its bad how some people here say this is a good thing (most likely veterans who already have these blueprints anyways), I wanted to craft because its immersive for me and I would hate to spend reputation that I already have to grind every single day with a daily cap on it.

What is wrong with newer players having the same choices as veteran players and being treated the same?

Edited by IIAc3sII
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4 minutes ago, IIAc3sII said:

Most veteran players will keep their blueprints and not sell it, and they will have the choice to either craft baits AND buy them for reputation, new players are treated unfair with this.

Its bad how some people here say this is a good thing (most likely veterans who already have these blueprints anyways), I wanted to craft because its immersive for me and I would hate to spend reputation that I already have to grind every single day with a daily cap on it.

What is wrong with newer players having the same choices as veteran players and being treated the same?

It was the developer's fault to let the older players keep these bps. They should just remove them from everyone's inventories, IMO.

That way, it makes it clear that the devs do not want the bps to be part of the game anymore.

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5 hours ago, Cephalycion said:

It was the developer's fault to let the older players keep these bps. They should just remove them from everyone's inventories, IMO.

That way, it makes it clear that the devs do not want the bps to be part of the game anymore.

NO WAY! Absolutely not under any circumstances. I want to keep my old BPs, and I want new players to be able to buy and use them too. Just put them on Kin/Old Mate rank if "new player trapping" is a concern, but the fish bait BPs need to be kept and expanded on, NOT EVER removed. Both systems of getting bait need to coexist, forcing people to spend standing for bait is not something I'd accept. I've never used Fortuna bait and until I can craft it I probably never will.

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14 hours ago, Cephalycion said:

Oh, my sweet summer child, you have no idea how much of a pain the bait blueprints were huh?

I will only be using baited fish species as our base since non-baited species can...well they can be caught without needing bait.

Let's do some calculations. For the benefit of the doubt I'll say you catch exclusively Small Sharrac (of course in reality you would be getting medium and big ones as well)

The old blueprints for baits required 20 fish meat to craft (along with some other materials, Glappid bait being the exception with 10 fish meat). Again, I give you the benefit of the doubt and say that the fish meat is the only required resource, just to simplify our calculations.

Small Sharrac gives 2 fish meat per catch. Meaning you will need 20 / 2 = 10 Small Sharrac to be able to craft 10 bait - Old crafting system

The twilight bait needed to catch Sharrac costs 2000 rep.

Small Sharrac gives 100 rep per catch. Meaning you will need 2000 / 100 = 20 Small Sharrac to be able to buy 10 bait - New purchase system

Twice as much Sharrac seems like a bad tradeoff, but given all the "benefit of the doubts" that I gave you, the fact that you have to farm fish parts in tiers to even craft the next tier of bait, the current purchase system wins out. I know I will be selling my bait blueprints back to the Ostron peeps for 100k credits. More than worth. 

Or you'd just use the small charcs/goopolla that only give 25 rep or 3 fish meat that you are going to have a ton of. That's only 175 rep of fish for 20 bait. That's more than 10x better than 2000 rep for 20.

Every type of bait is way more expensive for rep than it was crafting it yourself.

Peppered bait is 175 to 1000

Murkray 1250 vs 4000

Norg 1050 vs 6000

Cuthol 2750 vs 8000

Glappid 5000 vs 10000

Even if you count the cost of the blueprints+bait and use some medium fish for bait instead of all smalls it's clearly way worse for anyone who likes fishing. Glappid are the one possible exception since their blueprint was really expensive.

Dye costing 100 is the worst part since smashing a couple rocks for 10 iradite is way better than spending 1000 rep.

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Posted (edited)

Ignore this

Edited by eRager
Waste of time

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16 hours ago, Cephalycion said:

Small Sharrac gives 2 fish meat per catch. Meaning you will need 20 / 2 = 10 Small Sharrac to be able to craft 10 bait - Old crafting system

You craft Bait in stacks of 20, not 10. Your math is also incredibly disingenuous for claiming to offer the benefit of a doubt. You're never going to be catching just Sharrak fish. You're going to also be catching a crap-ton of Goopala, probably quite a bit of Tralok, as well as probably the or Karakina. You can easily catch 20 assorted fish from a single use of bait over the span of about 5 minutes. That's more than enough fish meat. And sure, high-level bait like Glappid requires several stages of fishing, but you don't actually NEED high-level bait for anything sans crafting materials. If all you wanted out of fishing was Standing, Murkray bait had the most efficient return and that required solely non-baited species to catch. Go to any body of water and it'll be teeming with trash fish that you can harvest for organs.

And while you cite the cost of Bait blueprints, those blueprints were reusable. That 2000 Twilight Bait Standing cost is steep, yes, but you pay it only a single time. With the new system, every time you buy Bait you're cutting into your daily standing. Considering the largest, most show-stopping limitation in Syndicate progression IS daily standing, taking chunks out of it is not trivial. Especially for a brand new player with a Daily limit of something like 6000, buying bait can slow them by days if not weeks.

Selling consumables for a daily-capped resource is always a bad idea. Maybe if the consumables sold for Credits it wouldn't be as annoying. Because cumbersome though it might have been, crafting bait from materials and NOT Standing made for easier standing progression.

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17 hours ago, Cephalycion said:

Let's do some calculations. For the benefit of the doubt I'll say you catch exclusively Small Sharrac (of course in reality you would be getting medium and big ones as well)

The old blueprints for baits required 20 fish meat to craft (along with some other materials, Glappid bait being the exception with 10 fish meat). Again, I give you the benefit of the doubt and say that the fish meat is the only required resource, just to simplify our calculations.

Small Sharrac gives 2 fish meat per catch. Meaning you will need 20 / 2 = 10 Small Sharrac to be able to craft 10 bait - Old crafting system

The twilight bait needed to catch Sharrac costs 2000 rep.

Small Sharrac gives 100 rep per catch. Meaning you will need 2000 / 100 = 20 Small Sharrac to be able to buy 10 bait - New purchase system

So we're better off by a factor of 2x with those old blueprints is what you're saying? 

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