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Wisp Review/Early feedback

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So. Watched the devstream hoping for some response to the feedback on the melee changes. Nothing on that front, but we got a look at Wisp's abilities. Cool!

Passive is invisibility in the air. Sure, okay. Great. The visual looks weird if she's just got holes through her model, but ehhh.

From there though we get into sticky territory.

Her 1 is poorly-conceived. We've already accepted the fact that Vauban has problems due to his stationary focus that suffers in wide open spaces, and now we're going with more stationary things? Why? And what does this have to do with her concept at all?

Her 2 is a good step up from her 1, but I just can't really see myself ever using it. If I want to move somewhere, I can jump there. If I want to get aggro off me, I can jump because of her passive.

Her 3 is... eh. Dunno how much damage it does, but it's dependent on her 1, which as stated is pretty wonky, and it's just a radial slam. How does this fit her theme at all?

Her 4 though is interesting. It's cool, don't get me wrong in the slightest. I'd scrap literally everything else in Wisp's kit and build entirely around this ability, but... again, how does this fit her at all? You say 'well it's portal mage' but nothing else about her in the slightest says portal mage. Not her name, not her abilities, not her look or animations... just this one little tiny piece of fluff text.

 

I have some small number of thoughts on how I'd design Wisp, if one were to take her theme as 'ghosty portal mage'. Issue is, one of them is literally already TAKEN by Baruuk. Toggle ability on, attacks can be portalled through you. But let's ignore that for the moment and get on with the show.

Delta's Super Fantasy Funland Wisp is as follows.

(Passive) Levitation: Wisp maintains full directional control while aimgliding, so changing direction isn't like stopping a boulder, and she doesn't lose height while aimgliding.

(1) Phase: Similar to her current 2 and could reuse the assets, but Wisp turns INTO the projected energy and leaves a short-lived decoy at her previous location. Like 2-3 seconds short. While in energy form though, you are constantly moving forward but can still steer. Pressing the button again ends the ability early. Range increases speed. phasing THROUGH enemies stuns them or does damage or opens them to finishers or fears them or something. Also, the projected energy cannot be seen and doesn't set off alarms or whatever, and any unalerted enemy who sees the decoy is basically just distracted briefly rather than alerted until it goes away. Just an Elder Scrolls-esque 'must have been imagining things' type deal. As a bonus, using this ability resets her glide timer.

(2) Hostile Warp: To actually do something with the portal aspect, her second ability is targeted on an enemy. It teleports them to in front of you, deals damage, and stuns them. They don't count as alerted until the stun wears off, so it's viable for stealth missions. Perhaps it opens them up for finishers.

(3) Shade: This is the one which is basically already on Baruuk, but anyway. Shade is a toggled ability that drains energy over time. Slowly though, even for toggled abilities. While it's active, Wisp isn't INVISIBLE, but is still much harder to detect. Weapons are likewise quieter, but not 100% silenced. Maybe detection reduction and silencing changes with power strength, iunno. Anyway. While it's active she's harder to detect out of combat, and while in combat, she basically has an X% chance to dodge attacks that hit her by reflexively portalling it. Ideally the sort of ability you could turn on at the start of a mission and keep on for most of it if you wanted to mod that way. It isn't flawless like Baruuk's, but doesn't need you to be looking at it and doesn't stop you from attacking.

(4) VOID GATE: Hey, you know what really hecks up living things? You know what's really spooky and ethereal? Y'know what can only be reached by portals? THE VOID. A minor change to her current firebeam, just recolor it and make it do VOID damage. Heck, make Hostile Warp do void damage too. In essence, open up a teeny hole to the void and blast someone with THAT. It keeps the portal fluff, it keeps the effect as-is, it makes it super unique as a warframe that can do void damage, and the ethereal, spooky nature of the Void is far more fitting to the ghost half of her theme than the sun is.

Conclusion

I think Wisp as-is is weird. Just... really weird. A bizarre mix of abilities with little connection to her themes. I highly doubt my thoughts will shape any of her future, but who knows. I'm not 100% sold myself on Hostile Warp, if you wanted her to be more supportive you could rework her current buff effects into something there. Maybe just cycle though 'em and a cast gives the buff to all nearby allies. Not particularly exciting, but it'd be much more user friendly than flower totems. You could even fluff it as drawing power from the void to temporarily supercharge warframes, like those cracks on Lua or Void Corruption from opening relics.

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I really wanted a ghost frame, and that's not what we got. Honestly not really sure what Wisp is. A portal mancer with only one portal? A light/sun-based frame? But! There's going to be plenty of people that love Wisp. That's okay! I have other frames. 

 

BUT! Her first ability really should be place in the direction she's aiming, not the direction the frame is looking. That has never worked out in any frame/character/game. Not going to make a huge difference considering what the ability does. 

 

Still holding out hope for a ghost frame. Incorporeal abilities, no collusion with enemies, will-o'-wisp ability, ect. Something spooky! 

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21 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Just on the fact that it's fire alone does not mean it's better for Ember, per se.  I think that'd be a bit tunnel-vision'd.   

It certainly wouldn't hurt as an Augment, but Ember is more of an AoE frame, not so much a direct, single-target damage dealer. And she excels at that.

I could see Wisp's ult remaining the same, just altered to be more of a "Dark" energy, rather than "expedited from the Sun".  Also, I like the idea of using the 1st Ability's wisps to POWER the 4th, such that it prevents it from just being mindlessly "Press 4 to kill all the thingz".

I'd like to ADD to my OP, adding in that 3's effects should SCALE depending on a thing or two, such as "If Green, are OTHER Green Wisps within range of THIS Green Wisp?  If so, Speed is boosted even MORE!"  OR you could just scale it depending on how many, out of the total available, deployed Wisps, are matching, and the power of their effect would scale from there.

Like, say she has 6 Wisps out, but 5 of the 6 are Green.  Then the enemies entering the AoE would be MASSIVELY slowed down...whereas if only 2 were Green, the slow effect would be much less impactful, but the effect of the OTHER colored Wisps might be more significant.

Does that make sense? Like, it'd allow the player to scale the abilities ON-THE-GO to fit the situation!  Making her an AMAZING Defensive/Support frame!

Nice

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41 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

I'm not going to go into the details of why I really like what you guys have done with wisp, because there are too many negative naysayers who are scared of something new and unique... but I think you guys have done a great job so far.

 

Dismissing other people's opinions as them just being "afraid of new things" is why we still have zero response to the negative feedback from the melee changes.

Don't do it.

New and unique doesn't automatically mean good.

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Haven't thought on it much but what about her 3rd being an ability that uses actual portals useable by players? Like instead of blowing up the totems, portals are made and that way you can move between each one. And if a player or enemy uses the portals they get the totem buff or debuff version, respectively.

That said, anyone else think the portal part of her concept is being underused? 

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Posted (edited)
 
 
 

I am gonna be brutally honest here, Wisp's abilities are kind of "meh".

 

Her first ability is pretty good, I don't have much of a problem with it. it's a buff ability, thus as long as the numbers are right this ability should be good. Her second ability is where it all started to go a bit downhill for me, while cool and even pretty useful, it's basically Nezha's blazing chakram, they almost copied Nezha's ability 1 for 1, there is very little difference between the two abilities besides appearance. The only thing missing being the damage component of Blazing chakram, stinks of uninspired or lazy design if you ask me.

Her third is also boring and unexciting , all it seems to be is is an AOE damage effect that isn't even casted from the warframe itself, meaning if there are no enemies near it, the ability won't hit anything unless the range is ridiculously big by default and can cover numerous parts of a map at once. If it doesn't have such a range, you then run into the problem of being locked to one area. This completely slows down and limits the player, warframe is at its best when you can use the movement system to its full effect and speed through tilesets. It sucks when you have to stop in one area because of ability limits, it really contradicts with other speed boosting abilities in her kit.

As for her 4th ability, ah her 4th ability, now this ability is where I have the largest amount of gripes with. I'll give it to them this ability does look amazing, one of the best effects I have ever seen in warframe. However everything else about the ability is absolutely terrible. This ability not only has a very narrow tiny line of AOE, where the beam can affect enemies, it also limits player movement and agency significantly. Two things you really don't want to hear about a warframe's ability.

The severely limited movement and actions you can take make wisp practically a sitting duck, fast and agile movement through a tileset not only helps you progress through quicker, but also keeps you alive longer, especially if not a high damage resistance frame. Then there are the other problems with this ability, as mentioned before. The AOE of the ability is very very small, not to mention the damage isn't instant but channeled over time.

The ability just appears to be a run of the mill damage ability, with seemingly no sort of special effect or benefit to it either. It is an ability that has practically no benefit to the user whatsoever, the ability is so slow, limiting and clunky with little to no other benefit besides DPS, which it isn't good at. It's so bad that you're better off just not using the ability at all, because at that point you may as well just shoot or kill the enemy another way, as it gets the job done quicker.

Has DE learnt nothing from past frame's problems such as Garuda and Revenant ? Channeling abilities are just not great in game like warframe at the moment with how they currently work. Wisp will need some changes after the update if she releases this way, just like Garuda and Revenant, did.

 

 

Edited by Sonicbullitt
Edit: fixed small text

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, -Bv-Concarne said:

That said, anyone else think the portal part of her concept is being underused? 

I think Reb may have just mis-identified Wisp, tbh her theme and her name...makes no sense.

They dont mix well at all sans her passive, summoning totems / vanishing and blinding enemies / detonating totems/  firing a giant laser doesnt scream ghost frame or spirit frame or portal frame

It screams Path of Exiles Totem witch 

Edited by (PS4)psycofang

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Was very excited for wisp, loved her concept, always wanted a portal mage in the game, a manipulator similar to limbo. 

Her passive is great, not game changing but nice to have and fits her inter dimensional play and theme.

Her 1? Easily her worst ability. I've seen people saying it would be good for interception and def since they are placeable, but simply put, there are better frames for the job that have kits that synergies better heal more and give better cc or speedbuffs. You have a damage dealing trickster mage, and then you slap some placeable buffing flowerpots on her 1? They don't fit her thematic and I have to say placeable abilities are slow and boring, so are cycled abilities and when you combine them...  I wish she wasn't so blatantly and heavy handedly being pigeonholed into the role of support buy giving her one clunk ability that gives a weak version of every buff. 

Her 2? I'm down with, its an "oh sh*t" providing cc and an escape, combined with her passive gives her some survivability. It also has some synergy by lining up enemies to get blasted by her 4.

Her 3? Lacks some imagination for a portal based mage, but aoe damage is FINE. I imagine it won't scale unless its a radiation dmg  type and its main weakness is that it is only usable when her 1 is out, which is just bad design. It should be castable on herself or allies or something.

 4?  I know a lot of people don't lime her lazer, but it looks so good and fits her portal mage style just fine, really gives me that classic glass cannon feel. I have a terrible feeling its damage won't be overwhelming though, since non exhalted DMG abilities rarely are, but I can't say confirm or deny that till we see how she mods. 

Really I just think her 1 needs changing, doesn't suit her design or the play style of her other abilities. And if you want to force her to be a support frame, choose one buff and enhance it and make it a buff that fits her design, not healing flowerpots. 

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5 minutes ago, Sonicbullitt said:

is the text supposed to be this small, if not how to fix ?

Mark everything and then press 4th button from the left on the second line (the "Tx").

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Just now, uxx0 said:

Mark everything and then press 4th button from the left on the second line (the "Tx").

ah sweet, thanks

 

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Posted (edited)

Just wanted to clarify, despite her name of wisp and its association with ghost and spirits, she has been quoted as a portal based frame. Her 1(which I personally think is her least thematically sound ability) summons wisps from another dimension. Her 2 summons an ethral form of herself, from another dimension. Her 3 is there. Her 4 opens a portal and releases energy, from another dimension. Her passive allows her to phase in and out of dimensions making her invisible. There is a pattern emerging from the description of her abilities and when you bear this in mind instead of a ghostly themed frame, which was an earlier concept, her 4 makes more sense.

Despite this your suggestions are still very interesting, I just wanted to share. 

Edited by deadstock
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2 hours ago, Xydeth said:

personally i only feel her 4 feels too plain as it is. her rest is tailored for interaction/synergy i think/hope and her 4 doesnt look like it has any with her other abilities.

would love seeing it draw power from every nearby whisp/buff station but deactivating the buff whisp recharge whilst active, so no buffs but more damage.

i also think she should be able to use the decoy ability and have a special interaction when she reactivates it whilst her 4 is on, for example detonate it instead of teleporting. logic: she opens a portal at the decoys location instead and releases a burst of the suns power at its location.

her 4 looks really awesome but i think to really make it worth it and she as a whole frame, it needs to have synergy with her other abilities...otherwise why use the buffs or decoy if her 4 is all we really want.

Her 2 is a moving taunt. My understanding is that you can cast her 2 which taunts enemies in a line allowing you to blast them with your 4, without getting shot at.

Its not a perfect ability, but it suits her theme as a portal based mage, channeling energy through a portal from another dimension. 

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1 minute ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

So I’m not the only one. Kewl.

I don't know Evolve, so on a scale of 1 to Hildryn-Is-Literally-Zarya, how close is Wisp to Wraith?

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2 hours ago, Aenris said:

I'm concerned about Wisp's theme as well. They never explicitly said it but her name's Wisp, and she channels the sun and makes plants.

There's a.... bit of a jump there, guys. She has this ghosly movements and animations, she floats and for some reason she throws plants?

Speaking of which, deployable buffs again? it didn't work well with titania, heck, it didn't work with Volt's speed. Why are we revisiting this idea? I'd rather make her plants something like little will-o-wisps and make them something you can also target enemies with. Keep the different buffs and colors, but make them little fires. When allies move close to said fire, a ray connects with said ally and give them said buff. Done. Please don't make us pick up these.

Lastly, her ult looks amazing, but i feel we're having too many "float while channeling death ray". Even Garuda was about to have one of these. Might count Hildryn in these, since she might not have a death ray, but her controls and weapons are stripped from her as well.



 

Deployable and cycled buffs, two mechanics that have never worked and aren't fast passed enough to be fun. As you've said her 1 doesn't suit the design of her kit at all. Flowerpots? On a mage focused around portals and energy projection? 

I don't have a huge problem with her 4 it fits her theme well enough and its just a nuke ability for particularly tough enemies that can't be killed quicker with your primary. Its a trend with the new warframes, but damage is the best cc atm, its kinda the meta. 

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Her 1 just doesn't fit her proposed palystyle. She has been quoted as a portal mage. All her 2 and 4 reflect this by projection forms of energy through portals. Her 1 and by extension her 3 don't. Her 3 does project energy... From a flowerpot she summoned on the ground. 

I don't know why she is being forced into the support frame category by giving he one clunky cycled ability that gives 2 buffs and cc. There are frames that give the same buffs in an easier manner and have entire kits that also complement these buffs (volt/trinity/Oberon..) 

All her other abilities point towards a glass cannon, tricky frame, that rewards mobility, except her first ability. 

Her 4 is fine imo, suits her thematic. My only issue is that it will do mediocre dmg and even is it doesn't it is still outshined by similar abilities like mesa's. It would be better as a single high damage flare instead of a channel, that can kill a high priority target instead of clearing rooms or having no real purpose. 

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Nothing like definitive statements on how awful a frame is to use when it isn't even out yet.

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2 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Nothing like definitive statements on how awful a frame is to use when it isn't even out yet.

You don't need to take a bullet to the leg to know it's gonna hurt.

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Just now, DeltaPangaea said:

You don't need to take a bullet to the leg to know it's gonna hurt.

If you complained to someone that getting shot is really painful when you have never been shot?

You could imagine it being painful but you can't say how painful it actually is unless... you are actually shot. Lots of people speaking about her abilities as if they have used her and not watched someone else play her, and not even in a situation with a serious player. People aren't asking for tweaks, but half her kit to be done over.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, (XB1)The Neko Otaku said:

How is making content catering to new players? Would you rather have no content and have another drought?

The so-called drought never really existed. For some players it was a real thing, for the masses the was just a slowdown in content.
What was released however was crisp.

I personally would rather have no content then receive rushed, half baked/lazy, buggy, & badly designed content.

To use games as an example...
I'd take 1 release of Cyberpunk 2077/The Last of Us 2 over receiving 10 releases of Fallout 76/Anthem any day of the week.
To be fair to Wisp we'll have to try her out when she releases. But she reaks of Titania right now which to be blunt is NOT good.

Even post buff the best way to describe Titania was really nailed by a meme: 51854174_143677563314929_352278304206849

My current issue with her is simply...
Her kit suffers from the very same issues that Vauban has & DE admitted that due to the mobility & direction of the game they are giving Vauban a COMPLETE Kit Rework. He's getting every ability changed...that is a very big deal.
So to 1 minute say you have to completely rework 1 frame due to a kit that no longer meshes with gameplay then the next minute release a Frame who's kit has the same issues is...mind boggling.
Lastly, apparently her powers are "Portal"-ish? Well a frame who uses portals should be very mobile, and there is so much that could be done with that. The #2 & #4 abilities are impo a good example of that to be honest.

Edited by (PS4)Zero_029
Posting Meme overwrote the rest of my post for some odd reason.
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Yes, we don't know the full extend of how bad she is, but she looks really really bad and before release is the time when things like this are best done.

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8 hours ago, Lance_Lionroar said:

First of all, addressing DE directly whilst posting in General Discussion (which they don't visit for feedback) is very smart on your part.

I'm sure that your condescending tone is very constructive and helpful too, assuming they ever read it. Well done.

Pretty much this.

/thread?

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Her abilities seem like a mess. Like they could not actually Decide What she was going to be. But that guy @Flandre_Scarlet_

pretty much got what i was thinking WISP would be which is based of the Will-O-The-Wisp legends(aka the Ghost Light or Fairy Flames)

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

Sorry for another thread of this.  But I just wanted to get my opinion out there.  Especially since my initial replies seem to be mostly bad ones information wise.  I rewatched her stuff and listened to a few videos talking about her.  SO I need to redo my opinion.  VERY IMPORTANT INFORMATION!  The devs stated on stream that her kit is going to have more synergies/effects with her abilities.  So what we saw on stream isn't everything her kit does.  Something we need to keep in mind.  Anyway let's jump in.

 

Passive:  "While being airborne Whisp is invisible."

Details: From re-looking at footage it seems like she isn't invisible for just being in the air.  Seems like a minimum of double jump is needed.  Potentially also when you bullet jump.  And you return to being visible the moment you touch the ground.

Input: I think this will need to be in effect if she's clinging to a wall or wall jumping as well.  As this seems to be her mainline way to survive.  What we don't know is how the enemy interacts once we go invisible.  Do they lose aggro?  Or do they continue to fire in our general area?  If the enemies don't immediately de aggro I can only see this as a way for us to setup.  Rather than to use it actively to avoid damage.  Meaning she glides into a room and sits on a wall or something.

 

Ability 1:  "Whisp places up to 6 totems on the field that offer one of 3 buffs. Speed, health regen, CC via lightning procs."

Details:  so to cycle through these buffs you tap the ability button and then hold to cast to drop said buff effect.  Once you pick the buff up it rotates around you but the flower it came from seems to remain there.  It appears you can have up to more than one of the same buff dropped at a time.

Input:  I don't like how this ability works input wise.  I play on a pad.  It's a bit clunky to attempt to do so on a consistent basis.  I don't like deployables to begin with.  But this can be some what "okay" for me so long as how her 3 interacts with this ability a specific way.  My question is can you stack these buffs?  As in pick up multiple of the same buff?

 

Ability 2:  "Whisp deploys a decoy based on the direction of her aim.  Can teleport to the decoy."

Details: If you look at Whips when she casts this ability she gets the same visual treatment she gets if she is invisible VIA being airborne.  So this implies that she's invisible for the duration of her active decoy.  Also teleporting creates 3 effects.  It stuns enemies, blinds enemies, and she is briefly invulnerable when she does teleport.

Input: Fantastic ability.  If the invisibility works the same as her passive and her passive makes enemies ignore her then it's a really good effect.  My only concern is setup time.  like how fast and far it can travel.  We will have to see how mods effect this ability but overall I think it's a well designed ability.

 

Ability 3: "Casts a radial AoE from her pillars.  Does damage."

Details: It appears in addition to doing damage said AoE will also have a different effect based on what buff the pulse came from.

Input: I don't like that this ability is 100% dependent on her 1.  But, this can be made to feel less bad.  If the effect still comes from the pillars even if the buffs were already picked up.  And/or the AoE can come from the buffs currently surrounding you/allies.  Still.  I would like to see the AoE refresh buff timers to go along side all of this.

 

Ability 4: "Whisp shoots the sun beam at you."

Details: So it's a pure damage ability.  However it was noted from a tweet from Sheldon that the beam will do more damage the longer it hits a target specifically aimed at making it's damage "scale" for higher content.

Input:  So visually it's nice.  My worry is how vulnerable it makes her.  As she doesn't have any built in damage reduction skills or spammable cc effects.  I also would like to see it have some sort of synergy with her other abilities.  As it stands it should be considered that we're locked out of using her other abilities while using this because it is a channeled ability.

 

Closing thoughts:  Overall I think she's a more solid design compared to Hildryn though not close to the level of past designs such as Inaros or Nidus.  Her "theme" is portals and that fits.  She teleports around like portals.  She brings the sun with a portal.  But she also fits (imo) as a spectre/mysterious entity.  I have no real issue with theme which is good.  Ability wise it seems she's pushed at being utility/support.  Which is refreshing as we haven't really explored heavy utility based frames.  Loki is the only one that comes to mind.

The sore spots for me are really just her 1 and 3.  I don't like the forced dependancy interaction wise.  I don't like the inputs for her 1 at all and I think it's a big mistake to make a focus on deployables for her when in the same stream they acknowledge one of vaubans issues being said deployables.  And effect wise they're "okay" effects but I think they could probably choose a better selection.  But this kind of also depends on what effects come from said pillars when you cast her 3.  Like if the speed buff slows enemies from the wave or if the cc buff walls enemies away.  So it's hard to say.

My initial impression was a bit too harsh.  I'm intrigued but I can't deny the hint of worry/distaste I have.

Really nicely constructed analysis. 

All I can really do is agree woth the majority of your points.

Her one is deployed and cycled, two mechanics that have never really worked since they're too slow and a cumbersome to acquire in such a fast paced game. It also doesn't suit wisp thematically as a portal based mage. All her other abilities are a form of energy manipulation or projection using portals I assume. But her one just summons flowerpots? 

I'm not a fan of how a single ability is being used to force her into the support category. All her other abilities point towards a glass cannon with a mobile and tricky playstyle. Except her one which gives three utility affects that are all provided more easily by other frames that also have kits centered around support/utility (volt/trinity/Oberon). It just seems odd. If they are going to give her a utility ability make it a single unique buff that fits her aesthetic.

Also, it's my understanding that her two also taunts as its traveling? If I'm right this allows you to taunt enemies and draw them together before using your fourth ability, removing some of the danger of being so immobile. 

I was really excited for this frame and I'm still hopeful, the potential is there is just not quite there yet. 

Edited by deadstock

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